They blow .
There defensemen are soft as dough .
Half the time DeSmith is literally defenseless ..
There defensemen are soft as dough .
Half the time DeSmith is literally defenseless ..
OT: Pens
- Thread starter mike 301
- Start date
Yeah. In early January I still didn’t think it was worth being concerned. But it’s clear by now. Should have torn it all down.
Yeah, this is pretty ugly.
The Islanders who are not even one of the better teams, basically sucked for more than half the game, but still win in regulation.
The Pens are a very average team.
The Islanders who are not even one of the better teams, basically sucked for more than half the game, but still win in regulation.
The Pens are a very average team.
Yeah I mean he was never the answer but with the current line up , he doesn't stand a chance .
We just can’t keep the puck out of our net. You can survive shaky defense & shaky goaltending for stretches here and there, but not both at the same time. That was a ridiculous loss.
How to dominate hockey game and lose. I don't blame Desmith at all. They are the worst defensive team I have seen in quite a while. Brian Doumolin flat out blows and they are so soft in front of Desmith it is sad. If you have no net front presence on defense you can't win in the NHL. A game like that could be their undoing. Who could blame the guys if they stopped skating and working their ass off for goals while the other team just cleans up on mistakes and the Pens failing to even touch someone that goes to the front of the net.
Carter -2
Kappanen -3
Complete dog crap.
Kappanen -3
Complete dog crap.
The defense is much softer. It would give "Charmin" a run for its money.
Used to win cups with a dominant 3rd line. Now the third line smells worse than dog crap.
I am glad someone started a new thread. Seriously. I mean, I am not sure what they can do. They are almost better at the point of going to Sid and saying, "hey we got to blow this all up and start over. Would you be willing to be moved. Because if you are moved, then Geno and Letang are likely to waive their no trade clause."
There is no trade to be made here to help the Penguins. None.
There is no trade to be made here to help the Penguins. None.
The Penguins will not play sound with the lead.
They will chase goals to pad their personal stats.
Have to disagree a little with this one Gary.
Granted, they don’t know how to play a lock down defensive game with a lead. It’s not in their DNA or their coaching style.
To make matters worse through, they quit playing to possess the puck and to try to generate an offensive presence in the other teams end. How many shots on goal did they generate in the third vs. the Isles?
They became passive and sat back and tried to survive. Also, I don’t know how much being older and tired come into play but it may be some to blame. This is another reason why Sully needs to play the fourth liners and the younger guys some. They at least have a little more freshness and aggressiveness.
In short, I think they need to stay more aggressive with a lead, not be stupid, but play the style that fits their talent best.
Hextall and whatever Burke does have done an awful job here ,only good move that was made was getting rakell other than that they've been terrible,
The Penguins simply don’t interest me anymore. Specifically, the last 5 years same team same results every year. Look forward to them starting new with these core players even though that may mean some rough years ahead.
Right they've become very stale
Working out great for the big three, because that’s how they want to play. At this point they don’t send to have a hunger for a Cup any more, it’s personal pleasure. That’s the tough thing when dealing with some mega stars, in many cases they win a few “team” things and that allure is gone, and then it becomes about entertaining themselves and hoarding their power and glory. Of course the other 20 guys on the team are NOT the big three and not the guys these stars originally won Cups with, so they very much do have interest in that, but they can’t play a a system conducive to winning that (tough, violent, hard nosed, defensive, muckin’ and grinding’ when necessary). But they obviously lack the same offensive talent the big three have so the Go-Go style fails with them.
And besides all that, the goaltenders are garbage. Absolute garbage. Jarry has the heart of a mealworm and when you look up “gibrone” in the dictionary you see DeSmith and my pictures.
Should have blown it all up last spring and let the two big guys walk. Deal Sid for a massive haul if/when he balked. This is professional entertainment, you have to keep the product fresh.
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Was not talking specifically about last night.
Recently we have had leads Late in games of 4-1 and 3-1. Good teams rarely allow goals at the point.
Those games were gave up 2 more in the first game and another in the second.
That happens all the time. That has happened with these players and this coach for years.
We hunt goals when we should be playing frustrating defense.
There is very few moves Sully can make with this lineup. But one is........put Jeff Carter in the god damned press box!!!!! This won't turn the Pens into the 2016 Pens, but it takes out a weak link and sends a message at the same time.
I think Sully has run his course here. The fact he won't change up things, play a trap and counter style, is just mind-blowing.
I think Sully has run his course here. The fact he won't change up things, play a trap and counter style, is just mind-blowing.
Honestly, they badly outplayed and outskated the Isles last night. This team still has 3 lines that are older but can still play, lines 1, 2, and 4. Unfortunately the third line is a disgrace. Having said that, this team is awful defensively. They give up dumb goals because they are lazy and fear contact. The difference in last night's game was allowing the Isles to cut a 2 goal lead to one with only 27 seconds left in the 2nd period. This team needs defenseman who can play in front of their own net. Think Ron Hainsey or Hal Gill. The guys we have are just to small or to soft. Sullivan is part of the problem, as he doesn't subscribe to a physical brand of hockey.
I don't trust our goalies to be healthy for the stretch run and playoffs, which is a problem, but this team just needs a couple maulers to protect the net front. I don't think they could do much damage in the playoffs, maybe win a round if we can get a guy or two like a Ron Hainsey. Of course, like I said above, I wouldn't blame the guys for packing it in when we work hard to score goals and then watch the other team get one scoring chance and our defenseman just watch while it goes in.
I don't trust our goalies to be healthy for the stretch run and playoffs, which is a problem, but this team just needs a couple maulers to protect the net front. I don't think they could do much damage in the playoffs, maybe win a round if we can get a guy or two like a Ron Hainsey. Of course, like I said above, I wouldn't blame the guys for packing it in when we work hard to score goals and then watch the other team get one scoring chance and our defenseman just watch while it goes in.
So Todd Graham is universally hated here. He was criticized for hurrying up the team out of several wins where we had big leads and he refused to use the clock and play at a normal.pace to close out the game. He repeatedly lost games with big leads because he kept up the pace trying to score.
Yet, Mike Sullivan and his "high octane" offense are repeatedly defended on here. I don't get it. He only knows one way to play/coach. That's a bad coach.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Yet, Mike Sullivan and his "high octane" offense are repeatedly defended on here. I don't get it. He only knows one way to play/coach. That's a bad coach.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Perhaps because hockey is different ?
I mean do you actually think this roster is gonna grind out 1-0 wins .
Brilliant. I like your "we have a big leads, keep trying to score and damn the defense" attitude. You, sir a a real man of genius. I can also tell you never coached a day of your life at any meaningful level.
I agree 100 pct on Carter. He’s awful you can add Kappanen and Dumolin as well.
Keeping these guys and resigning Mulkin doomed this team before the season. Started. They needed some fresh blood and kept guys who are way over paid
I’m not ready to throw Sully under the bus because how much of the lineup is driven by Hextal and how much is Sully
The defense in this team stinks
The only way this roster wins is by scoring enough goals to hold onto a bigger lead
Do you see how badly we play when trying to protect a lead ?
This team isn’t constructed to play the way you want them to .
It’s about recognizing the personnel and not trying to plug square pegs into round holes .
A true coaching genius like you should recognize there is no one size fits all coaching to succeed
Stubborn coach and core. They still play like they can skate teams into submission, they don't have the top to bottom talent for that. Three centers 35+ yrs old doesn't help. And, when the GM's have given Sully physical players with some talent, he plkays them 4 minutes a game until they get traded.
No. preseason it should have been about "recognizing personnel" and...
coming to the only sane conclusion that this personnel playing the only way this coach will coach, was not any kind of option.
Truly, "continuing" to plug square pegs into round holes.
Yet you supply a one size fits all/ keep the hammer down approach that hasn't worked for half a decade.
Are you sure you're as smart as you think you are?
Good discussion in this thread guys .....
- I think the major problems are 1) A bad bottom 6 especially the 3rd line (McGinn/Carter/Kapanen are by the eye test and by analytics one of the worst if not the worst 3rd line in the NHL at present), 2) Soft defensemen and positionally poor overall defense (D-men and forwards), and 3) Goaltending hampered by injuries and inconsistency ......
- Meanwhile Hextall fiddles while the Pens crash and burn although to be honest he doesn't have the assets available to make the changes that are really needed for a Cup run .....
- We need to change the 3rd line and I think that starts with getting a new center who is a decent two way player (doesn't have to be a star) and see if McGinn and Kapanen are being held back by Carter ..... center can come from someone else on the team, someone from WBS, or most likely someone in a trade ...... scratch Carter and if you need cap space in a trade, put Carter on LTIR until the playoffs (if we make it) .....
- Need to get a defenseman who is physical .... someone like Pittisit4me mentioned above ....
- Need to get Ruuta and Jarry healthy .....
- The above would help and may not cost an arm and a leg .....
- In the off-season the Pens will have to decide the best course of action going forward and what changes to make .....
- In the Islander game last night, the Pens played great for the first half of the game (we out skated them, forechecked great and had puck possession in the offensive zone for long periods of time ..... unfortunately we didn't convert some good chances) and then we played poorly in the second half of the game and couldn't keep the lead ...... the second half of the game, the Islander's started dumping the puck behind our defense and forechecked with their physicality which helped nullify our speed game, wore us down some, and took advantage of our weakness as a team defensively ...... we have to be able to play different ways depending on the opponent and game situation to do our best and that includes being able to trap at times (although traps don't work as well these days with the rule changes and talent on the teams but they still can be effective) ......
- Let's hope for the best against the Devils tonight which is coming up shortly !
- I think the major problems are 1) A bad bottom 6 especially the 3rd line (McGinn/Carter/Kapanen are by the eye test and by analytics one of the worst if not the worst 3rd line in the NHL at present), 2) Soft defensemen and positionally poor overall defense (D-men and forwards), and 3) Goaltending hampered by injuries and inconsistency ......
- Meanwhile Hextall fiddles while the Pens crash and burn although to be honest he doesn't have the assets available to make the changes that are really needed for a Cup run .....
- We need to change the 3rd line and I think that starts with getting a new center who is a decent two way player (doesn't have to be a star) and see if McGinn and Kapanen are being held back by Carter ..... center can come from someone else on the team, someone from WBS, or most likely someone in a trade ...... scratch Carter and if you need cap space in a trade, put Carter on LTIR until the playoffs (if we make it) .....
- Need to get a defenseman who is physical .... someone like Pittisit4me mentioned above ....
- Need to get Ruuta and Jarry healthy .....
- The above would help and may not cost an arm and a leg .....
- In the off-season the Pens will have to decide the best course of action going forward and what changes to make .....
- In the Islander game last night, the Pens played great for the first half of the game (we out skated them, forechecked great and had puck possession in the offensive zone for long periods of time ..... unfortunately we didn't convert some good chances) and then we played poorly in the second half of the game and couldn't keep the lead ...... the second half of the game, the Islander's started dumping the puck behind our defense and forechecked with their physicality which helped nullify our speed game, wore us down some, and took advantage of our weakness as a team defensively ...... we have to be able to play different ways depending on the opponent and game situation to do our best and that includes being able to trap at times (although traps don't work as well these days with the rule changes and talent on the teams but they still can be effective) ......
- Let's hope for the best against the Devils tonight which is coming up shortly !
With the way that DeSmith played last night it's probably the right call.
Which shows how bad the current goaltending situation is.
Regardless of who the goalie is, this team is MEDIOCRE. They’re not bad enough to tear down and not good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs in the East.
What happened? The superstars got older and are more stars than superstars now but still take up a huge chunk of cap and it’s cost the lower level lines, plus the top lines are now more strong than elite and if you want to make up for weak lower lines you need to dominate at the top.
I’m all for a rebuild but don’t think we can/should ever dump Crosby and I’m not sure if we ever dump Malkin/Letang. As long as Crosby is here still I just can’t picture them committing to a rebuild, especially as Sid watches what’s going on around Patrick Kane in Chicago.
I hate to say it but it’s gonna be another decade before we can see this team as a contender again because it’s going to be another 2-3-4 years with Sid, then the rebuilding period. And since I’m not sure we trade the older stars, it likely means trading Guentzel at some point in his prime to get chips for the next run
What happened? The superstars got older and are more stars than superstars now but still take up a huge chunk of cap and it’s cost the lower level lines, plus the top lines are now more strong than elite and if you want to make up for weak lower lines you need to dominate at the top.
I’m all for a rebuild but don’t think we can/should ever dump Crosby and I’m not sure if we ever dump Malkin/Letang. As long as Crosby is here still I just can’t picture them committing to a rebuild, especially as Sid watches what’s going on around Patrick Kane in Chicago.
I hate to say it but it’s gonna be another decade before we can see this team as a contender again because it’s going to be another 2-3-4 years with Sid, then the rebuilding period. And since I’m not sure we trade the older stars, it likely means trading Guentzel at some point in his prime to get chips for the next run
Yes because the defense stinks with this roster
As I noted
You think this roster is capable of winning defensive centric games ?!
Really ?
