OT: Pens
- Thread starter mike 301
- Start date
bro I swear earlier in the season I was talking to you about this and said that.
anyways Penguins are screwed now that they signed a bunch of old losers to long term contracts trying to be a family , instead of knowing when to let go.
The core (letang and Malkin ) aren’t the problem - honestly
They are on bargain deals .
Dumo, Carter , kapanen etc are terrible
And letang and Malkin need separated on the poweplay unit.
They are a walking odd man break
Long term deals is what destroys teams... HEXTALL was like a 10 year old boy signing his favorite hockey players to life long contracts last season.
IT was insane.
He will never be a GM again.
IT was insane.
He will never be a GM again.
I don’t get mad over things like that
I probably pointed out saying the same thing 13 times in a row isn’t necessary
Let's face it.
The Penguins are Conference Final level with the first two line. I mean they pretty much dominate play when they are on. But they do lack some finishing.
Unfortunately, lines 3 and 4 are Conor Bedard Sweepstakes winners. I mean they are right at the very bottom of the league.
The defense is middling at best. It is probably 22-26 level. That's not good.
And they are playing with backup goal tenders.
That's not a good recipe for success. I said before the Pens do anything, wait for these next 3 games (2 against Isles and 1 against Devils) and they are 0-2, zero points. I think the Fenway Sports Group needs to assess things like a business, and realize it ain't happening.
I would fire Sullivan. Now. Bring in a Barry Trotz type (not Trotz). I would let the players become uncomfortable and even miserable, and then go to the core and say "look, we have to dumb it down, play defense, structure. If you don't want to, we will work with you to trade, but you got to work with us. This includes 87."
The Penguins are Conference Final level with the first two line. I mean they pretty much dominate play when they are on. But they do lack some finishing.
Unfortunately, lines 3 and 4 are Conor Bedard Sweepstakes winners. I mean they are right at the very bottom of the league.
The defense is middling at best. It is probably 22-26 level. That's not good.
And they are playing with backup goal tenders.
That's not a good recipe for success. I said before the Pens do anything, wait for these next 3 games (2 against Isles and 1 against Devils) and they are 0-2, zero points. I think the Fenway Sports Group needs to assess things like a business, and realize it ain't happening.
I would fire Sullivan. Now. Bring in a Barry Trotz type (not Trotz). I would let the players become uncomfortable and even miserable, and then go to the core and say "look, we have to dumb it down, play defense, structure. If you don't want to, we will work with you to trade, but you got to work with us. This includes 87."
They aren't the problem no. But they are also no longer the solution because right now, the problem is way bigger than the core.
The Pens biggest issue in the last 4 years, they had goalie issues that cut a couple of cup runs short. If say they went and not even won one, but played in a final, at least you can say "okay this group completely maxed out its existence here" and move on.
Now, they keep on chasing just because of the goaltending issues that cost them.
And on that note, I am raising my hand pointing at "THIS GUY" (me) who not just Hextall, but also Rutherford who was imploring them to make a move for a better backup goalie because goalie #1 was really unknown/unproven. And they didn't. And it cost this franchise.
They blew it. It is time for them to admit it and even go to Sid and apologize and tell him we have to rebuild. Now.
Let's be honest, there are 5 "major" sports teams in the city of Pittsburgh. The Penguins have been by far the most successful and shining light over the last 33 years. By far! Nothing is close. But for the foreseeable future, (next 5-7 years) they also have the bleakest prognosis. Pitt FB, BB, Steelers and yes, your Pirates, all have a better immediate future.
To add on to the above, when it looked bleak in 2015-16, they made the move for Sullivan, but they had Rust, Kuhnackl, Sheary and Guentzel coming up, they had Murray and Jarry in net. Every move Rutherford made was like King Midas. Hornquist. Kessel. Bonino. Daley. Hagelin. Schultz. All were home runs.
There is not Guentzel or Rust or even Kuhnackl or Sheary in WBS. There is no Murray.
My point is, there are no moves to be made. Even moving a #1 for what?? I mean Buffalo is trading Tage Thompson, Rasmus Dahlin and Alex Tuck to the Pens for Jeff Carter, Kaspari Kapanen and Brian Dumoulin.
But in this thread I pointed to who these mysterious veteran backup goalie who is older than desmith for the same ball park salary .
It’s a shallow pool at best
Of course the 3rd string and bottom defensive pairs are the real culprits beyond desmith in goal
The rough years are already upon us I’m afraid.
They need to rip the whole thing down. There is time to rebuild and try to make another run with Crosby still around. But it needs to happen immediately. Not sure it’s even possible with what they have to trade. Otherwise they are going to be a team that barely makes the playoffs (at best) the rest of his career.
Nothing worse than draft middle stay middle. Especially in hockey. Josh Yohe had a great article in the Athletic tonight challenging this new ownership group to speak out and at least present their position and or plan.
Like he said, "Penguin fans are smart", they understand a rebuild might need to happen immediately, but there has been no real plan by anyone to try and move forward with a rebuild or go for it.
Again, I have been imploring this over not just one, but two former goalies who were Penguin GM's to address the goaltender situation and they haven't done this since Matt Murray left.
Like he said, "Penguin fans are smart", they understand a rebuild might need to happen immediately, but there has been no real plan by anyone to try and move forward with a rebuild or go for it.
Again, I have been imploring this over not just one, but two former goalies who were Penguin GM's to address the goaltender situation and they haven't done this since Matt Murray left.
Crosby knows this. He must be ok with it, content to have won the Cups they have already. Have fun with your old buds for another couple months, check out of the playoffs after the first week and right onto the golf course.
That surprises the hell out of me, as he still looks to be fiercely competitive when he plays… but for him not to have pushed for a different way these last couple years seems to really confirm this attitude. He’s not stupid, he has to have known things would go this way.
Agree, it seems like Hextall/Pens are on the fence of whether to go for it now or rebuild or do a little of both ...... they have to figure it out soon ......
This team is obviously flawed and if they want to make the playoffs and be competitive even in the first round, it looks like they need to get a competent third line center, a physical defenseman, get Rutta healthy, and figure out whether Jarry is going to be able to play the rest of the year and playoffs (if they make it) ...... if Jarry can't go or isn't near 100%, then another goalie would be needed now ..... they have limited assets available to bring in the needed additions and limited cap space so not sure they can do it to make a difference ....... however, also going to be very difficult to start a full scale rebuild now with all the NMC's on this team and limited cap space by many teams, etc. .....also, they are still in the playoff hunt so I don't think they will blow it up if they decide to do that until after the season.
Worried about Jarry's injury ...... a week ago they used the phrase chronic hip problem and now are back to upper body injury ...... chronic isn't good and now they said Jarry has had multiple medical opinions which most likely either means they are not sure what is wrong or they know what is wrong but aren't sure about treatment (could it be something that requires surgery and they are trying to see if he can play the rest of the season with conservative treatment ? ... I don't know) ......
It almost seems like we need a miracle ...... too bad we don't have a "Muskegon Line 2.0" to call up !
Last edited:
Right now, how much worse can it be to call up a couple of minor leaguers and have them run around out there and try and create some mayhem then settle for what this 3rd line is giving you?
Their choices are put Blueger at 3rd line center, call a center up from WBS, or trade for a 3rd line center ..... agree with you that anyone of those would be better than the way Carter is playing now ...... a trade for a veteran two way 3rd line center would be the better option IMO ...... Blueger hasn't played very well this year and not much in the farm system .......
Tristan Jarry is in goal tonight so hopefully he is ready to go the rest of the season which would fill one part of the puzzle ..... hopefully Ruuta will be back soon which I think would help ....... then we need Hextall to get the 3rd line center and a physical defenseman in without mortgaging the future ....... not sure he will be successful at that ......
Tonight's game against the Islanders is big ..... hope for the best !
I think Id fire Hextal first and hire a new GM to observe the team and evaluate Sully for the remainder of the year.
While I agree that canning Sully may get their attention this year and reap some short tern benefit this team needs to start thinking about what needs to be done to rebuild the team without totally tanking performance. That cant be accomplished with short term fixes.
If you believe the window is still open, I'd (paradoxically) unload free agents paired
with bad contracts like Carter and KK and free cap space for next year. As the window for the big three should be open, if you believe it still is, for the next four years, you plan for next year.
Gmrh totally destroyed this roster. Only authorize him to sell, not buy and get a real GM in after the season.
with bad contracts like Carter and KK and free cap space for next year. As the window for the big three should be open, if you believe it still is, for the next four years, you plan for next year.
Gmrh totally destroyed this roster. Only authorize him to sell, not buy and get a real GM in after the season.
My guess is that a "consensus decision" brought this bunch and their one trick pony coach back.
Hextall is likely far from the sole decision maker here, just a convenient fall guy.
Doesn't work like that. They can cut Carter and KK and their salaries still count against the cap. They are screwed. Half the team also has NTC contracts.
Not cut. Include them in a trade with a desirable.for a negligible return. Example: Kappanen and Zucker for a middling pick or prospect but retain little/minimal salary.
For a change, Mark Madden is right. The smart thing to do at trade deadline is SELL. Only chance for the 3 Core to win in next few years.
Goodbye Zucker, Dumo. Rust, Jarry, yes Jarry, plus a few others. Need youth, energy, health and cap room. Bye Bye 30 and older Hello mid twenties. Need a #1 goalie. Jarry is a #2 due to reliability and will want #1 money. Same as our last goalie...good bye.
Goodbye Zucker, Dumo. Rust, Jarry, yes Jarry, plus a few others. Need youth, energy, health and cap room. Bye Bye 30 and older Hello mid twenties. Need a #1 goalie. Jarry is a #2 due to reliability and will want #1 money. Same as our last goalie...good bye.
I think you’re being overly optimistic with their options. With your scenario, you’d still have Carter and you’d have to replace Zucker, in addition to having to improving the 3rd line, and maybe the goaltending. I guess you could trade Carter with P.O. Joseph (I would never do this) for a late round pick.
You’d have cap space, but 4 spots to fill with just draft picks, and Teddy Blueger,
I really wish they would just be sellers, but they won’t.
I think they’ll probably do something like trade their 1st pick, Blueger, and Ty Smith, maybe Drew O’Connor, maybe someone will take Kapenan, for a couple of average 3rd line forwards to look like they’re doing something.
Anything that puts Carter and kapanen as healthy scratches
But the defense is so damned bad
Just 5 minutes and a lead may likely be a 2 goal deficit
Who the hell would trade to take on their Contracts?!?
Only way to move them is to retain salary -
And what good does that do?!?
Dan, don't mean to poke fun with you, but your entire plan relies on having another GM be incompetent.
I mean the isles bring in a 50 goal scorer in Horvat
And we’re talking about our terrible 3rd line and shitty defense
Missing the playoffs seems likely
We can’t posses the puck in the 3rd
It’s sad
Wow. Everything wrong was on display here. Bad goaltending when it mattered. Stars having to fight because there’s no enforcer. No defense. Worthless impossible passes. More worthless impossible passes. Still more worthless impossible passes. Refusal to shoot. Refusal to storm the net. Coaching nonexistent.
That game was on Jarry. You can't give up a goal like that when the other goalie is standing on his head. Horvath's goal was simply awful.
I hate to say this but.......the desperation move is to fire Sully. There are no trades with the contract situations and cap space. They have no real prospects. No Guentzel or Rust or someone like that in Wilkes-Barre.
I personally want to fire Hextall like today, but that doesn't immediately change the on ice product.
So to me, there are only two choices.
1) If you intend to go for a playoff spot you have to fire Sully. Hey, it has worked before here.
2) Sell. Look to see who and what you can move, keep draft picks, hope for lottery luck and after the season ends, change the GM/Burke, bring in new management.
That's it. That's the list. Anyone want to tell me anything different???
I personally want to fire Hextall like today, but that doesn't immediately change the on ice product.
So to me, there are only two choices.
1) If you intend to go for a playoff spot you have to fire Sully. Hey, it has worked before here.
2) Sell. Look to see who and what you can move, keep draft picks, hope for lottery luck and after the season ends, change the GM/Burke, bring in new management.
That's it. That's the list. Anyone want to tell me anything different???
Last edited:
