And vise-versa. The NHL's leadership award is named after a guy who hated his coach so much that he helped tank a season to get him fired.
Because that's what real leaders in the NHL do.
OT: Pens
- Thread starter mike 301
- Start date
And vise-versa. The NHL's leadership award is named after a guy who hated his coach so much that he helped tank a season to get him fired.
Because that's what real leaders in the NHL do.
No, I'm not missing that. Not sure anyone could miss that, it was so obvious.
You do need to consider that at the time it occurred, they were the 2 time defending champions. Sullivan wasn't going to be fired at that time.
I am of the opinion that Sid and company also kind of led a tanking to get Mike Johnston fired. Which...you can criticize of course, but also Johnston was a really bad hire.
If he's fired for under achieving in the playoffs and regular season this year, I'm all for it. If he's fired for something that happened 5 years ago between him and a GM who's been gone for 2 years, well, to me that just shows that's there is still some sort of discord in the management of the Pens.
The new GM/management team needs to decide what type of product they want on the ice. They have approximately 20mm to spend on rebuilding this team. I think they need 5 forwards a D and a G. If they re-up DOC, Nylander and Poehling, they still have about 17mm to spend. They should be able to improve the 3rd line assuming they don't make some huge mistake with the goalie position.
Here's what I would do if I am the Pens.
Forwards:
1) Sid keep and start looking at long term extension
2) Malkin keep. Contract is actually not bad.
3) Rackell Keep
4) Guentzel. I would look to move. He has one more year, so you are either going to pay him $7-8 per for 5-6 years. Sorry. While none of this is his fault, he is a chip to use to make this team better overall.
5) Rust. I hated this contract. I would look to see if he can be moved. If there is a trade to be made. Or if he starts out hot, look to move him. He will be 31 and the Pens are on the hook for until 28.
6) Carter. You can't move him. Buy him out. Sure, it will cost salary, but take him away from Sully who seems to refuse to sit him.
7) Granlund Obviously attempt to move but who wants him at that price?
Tender the 3 RFA's, O'Connor, Poehling and Nylander
Don't resign Hanton
Defense:
1) Keep Letang. While maybe too long, his AAV or $6.1 is reasonable.
2) Petry. I would eat salary and try to move him. Horrible acquisition
3) Petterson. Was the best overall and his $4 mill cap hit is reasonable.
4) Ruuta. Not big on him either, but he is relatively cheap.
5) UFA's to be Kulikov and Dumoulin BuhBye.
6) PJO. I would see if there is a trade to be made.
Goalies:
1) If Jarry signs a 1 year "Prove it deal" that is reasonable, then fine. If not, let him walk. If you do sign him, you can't go with DeSmith
2) DeSmith I would see if I can move him
3) Sign a veteran goalie. Most goalies are alot like relief pitchers, they come and go constantly.
Probably with these moves, you have ~$25 million of cap room to fill out the roster.
Forwards:
1) Sid keep and start looking at long term extension
2) Malkin keep. Contract is actually not bad.
3) Rackell Keep
4) Guentzel. I would look to move. He has one more year, so you are either going to pay him $7-8 per for 5-6 years. Sorry. While none of this is his fault, he is a chip to use to make this team better overall.
5) Rust. I hated this contract. I would look to see if he can be moved. If there is a trade to be made. Or if he starts out hot, look to move him. He will be 31 and the Pens are on the hook for until 28.
6) Carter. You can't move him. Buy him out. Sure, it will cost salary, but take him away from Sully who seems to refuse to sit him.
7) Granlund Obviously attempt to move but who wants him at that price?
Tender the 3 RFA's, O'Connor, Poehling and Nylander
Don't resign Hanton
Defense:
1) Keep Letang. While maybe too long, his AAV or $6.1 is reasonable.
2) Petry. I would eat salary and try to move him. Horrible acquisition
3) Petterson. Was the best overall and his $4 mill cap hit is reasonable.
4) Ruuta. Not big on him either, but he is relatively cheap.
5) UFA's to be Kulikov and Dumoulin BuhBye.
6) PJO. I would see if there is a trade to be made.
Goalies:
1) If Jarry signs a 1 year "Prove it deal" that is reasonable, then fine. If not, let him walk. If you do sign him, you can't go with DeSmith
2) DeSmith I would see if I can move him
3) Sign a veteran goalie. Most goalies are alot like relief pitchers, they come and go constantly.
Probably with these moves, you have ~$25 million of cap room to fill out the roster.
How about telling us what you would do after most of your proposed moves fall flat. There's no benefit to buying out Carter, unless you just want to cause yourself further cap hell, as he signed an over 35 contract. The only way they're moving Granlund and Petry before the year starts is if they pay a team with draft picks to take them. More likely they'll hope one shows a pulse and they can make a move at the deadline when teams sometimes do stupid things.
If they plan to try and complete next year, I think the best option is to move Guentzel and try to become a deeper team. This would likely require them to jettison Sullivan.
I'm starting to think they should just mimic what the hawks did this season.
Package one of the stiffs with Guentzel and pay a portion of their salary, ie Granlund.
There are creative ways to deal with these kind of problems.
After all, THEY were stupid enough to make these deals, who's to say there isn't another sucker out there somewhere?
Nice. Let's play that game. What do you want in return - players or picks/prospects? Are you trying to compete in 2023-24 or are you going into rebuild mode?
That's tough. But look what Billy Guerin did when he inherited the horrific Parise and Suter contracts. He bought them out, took the hit. In fact they are still paying ~$14.5 million in dead cap space.
This is going to be tough regardless. But to just approach the same lineup and same coach that hasn't won a playoff series since no one has even heard of COVID it is insane to do it all over again.
You always try to compete. Every team in the NHL is competing, just some are better positioned than others.
Look, the Pens have made this bed. They made the decision to keep the band together. The core is here for the near future, period.
If they could bag a steady goalie, it would be a huge bandaid.
This isn't the first time the Penguins have faced this dilemma. And it happens to every franchise in every sport when they have aging superstars.
They can compete with a different style. It would be a style they purportedly hate, a boring, stand em up, plodding "system" style. And Sullivan isn't the guy to run that.
The worst thing they can do is nothing. That just delays the inevitable.
Last year's offseason doomed the pens for two years. Petry. Ruuta and a host of other bad deals in addition to Granlund at the deadline means that you are now treading water. Move what you can this summer and wait til the deadline to get rid of those you can't in June. I think this team will keep its old core but needs to move its middle-aged players. It needs to get young and fast, and they can't do that in one offseason. Guentzel and Rust will have to go one way or another. Petersson, too. You can't rebuild by giving away picks to shed salary. Then you have nothing let to build with.
Packaging a good player with a bad one may be the only way to accelerate the rebuild/retool.
Packaging a good player with a bad one may be the only way to accelerate the rebuild/retool.
Last edited:
Guerin was almost forced to eat the Parise contract, but adding on Suter was a ballsy call. Different circumstances that what the Pens face though.
Too bad Hextall didn't make Malkin available to the Kraken in 21, could have kept McCann and the team wouldn't seem so old.
Exactly. If Hextall never gave those contracts to Carter and Kapanen, they could have Vinny Troeschek. They shouldn't have given Casey DeSmith that contract and signed a veteran goalie to support Jarry. The Marino and Petry trades are disasters. Hextall took a small appliance fire and basically dumped jet fuel on it.
The trouble for the Pens, even though they will have cap room, it is very rare that good players in their prime get to the open market. Hockey players are the antithesis of the other sports it seems, they don't want to hit free agency. Most UFA's (almost all) who are worth something are over 30, mostly over 32. So now you give long term to these guys and you are buried when they are the north side of 35.
Here are some UFA's, Kane, Toews, Jordan Staal, Max Pacioretty, JVR, Zucker, Tarasenko,.....The Pens roster is already comprised of these guys.
On top of this, I saw the Athletic came out with their top 50 prospects (drafted) that are not yet in the NHL. The Pens had zero. Owen Pickering was on "others list" meaning top 100, but there are no Jake Guentzel's down on the farm.
Here are some UFA's, Kane, Toews, Jordan Staal, Max Pacioretty, JVR, Zucker, Tarasenko,.....The Pens roster is already comprised of these guys.
On top of this, I saw the Athletic came out with their top 50 prospects (drafted) that are not yet in the NHL. The Pens had zero. Owen Pickering was on "others list" meaning top 100, but there are no Jake Guentzel's down on the farm.
Would you be saying the same thing if Bonino and Kulikov had not gotten hurt the minute they were traded for and the Pens would have easily made the playoffs?
Always try to compete? If you're talking about the players on the ice, I agree, if not, I offer you the 83 Pens.
Will be interesting to see if Sullivan is retained, I wonder if they could get a draft pick for him? Add his extension to the list of Hextall's bad moves.
Last edited:
Do you actually believe Hextall had much of a say in the big decisions? I surely don't.
I mean.....would they have been worth 2 more points??? The Pens were a sinking ship. The worst thing that happened is I believe they won 4 in a row right before the trade deadline.
The could have probably moved Zucker out for a 1st rd pick and Dumoulin for a 3rd/4th rounder.
What is hilarious......is the Pens looked just like that against the Hawks and Jackets who should have been playing Roberto Romano in goal.
Not sure Guentzel would have made the top 50 list when he was on our farm. I have some guarded optimism for Nylander.
Would you re-sign Dumoulin for 2 yrs 6 mil? I would if he'd take it, think he started looking himself later in the year. I'd do it with an eye towards trading him. That's not to say I wouldn't take a hard look at what else was available first.
Some of these guys I want to take AWAY from Sully because even at their worst and if they are banged up, he would never sit a Dumo or a Carter and Sid and Geno never had their traditional week plus injury and the team just ran out of gas at the end.
So no. I just don't like Sully just trotting out the same lineup game after game with certain veterans struggling.
That's stupid. Really. This "Mario pulling the strings from behind the curtain" crap is ridiculous.
Not talking Mario. Mario is mad. Mario feels cheated.Mario is gone.
New ownership extended Sullivan. New ownership to this point, sticking with Sullivan.
Penguins, Head Coach Mike Sullivan Agree to Three-Year Contract Extension
The extension will kick in at the conclusion of the 2023.24 campaign, and run through the 2026.27 season.
www.nhl.com
Last edited:
I've not seen any reporting that indicates Hextall wasn't a part of the decision making group at the time the extension was signed. To counter your opinion, if they extended Sullivan against Hextall's wishes, then why keep Hextall around another year? I believe Hextall wanted to extend him, probably had to get FSG approval, but it wasn't done without or in spite of his wishes.
I’m amazed that there are fans and local media who are looking for the new GM to make a few key moves so that the Penguins will be Stanley Cup contenders next year.
It’s not going to happen, the best anyone can do is trade #1 draft picks and the few young players they have to make the playoffs, and if ALL the stars align win 1 round.
If a new GM can somehow get them into the playoffs without trading any draft picks, or any reasonably talented young players, more power to them.
They can’t be trading DOC or P.O. Joseph just to get someone to take Petry or Granlund or to get a mediocre goalie.
None of our problems are his fault, but trade Guentzel for the best draft pick or young player you can get.
They shouldn’t make a SINGLE move that doesn’t benefit the future.
It’s not going to happen, the best anyone can do is trade #1 draft picks and the few young players they have to make the playoffs, and if ALL the stars align win 1 round.
If a new GM can somehow get them into the playoffs without trading any draft picks, or any reasonably talented young players, more power to them.
They can’t be trading DOC or P.O. Joseph just to get someone to take Petry or Granlund or to get a mediocre goalie.
None of our problems are his fault, but trade Guentzel for the best draft pick or young player you can get.
They shouldn’t make a SINGLE move that doesn’t benefit the future.
‘……if ALL the stars align win 1 round.’
Kind of like the Florida Panthers, who made the playoffs only because of the Pens ineptitude, going into a game 7 against the record-setting Bruins today.
You could even add the Kraken doing the same against the Avalanche today. But that one’s not as surprising, they’re doing what the VGK just did a few years ago showing how an expansion NHL team can really hit the ice running.
Swayman....wow. Beer League goalies make that save.
Boston is going to lose. They change goalies for this game and Swayman gives up a softie.
Boston is going to lose. They change goalies for this game and Swayman gives up a softie.
As a hockey fan and hater of the Boston Bruins, I would love to see them exit in the 1st round after their historically great season. What a fabulous upset this would be if Florida can pull it off. If it happens, I can't wait to see the look on the face of that weasel Marchand.
In other news, does Toronto advancing to the second round mean Dubas is likely not an option for us?
Similar threads
