OT: Pirates Ke'Bryan Hayes a bust?
- Thread starter PittPoker
- Start date
And as Smizik pointed out for 2 months he hit .166. See I can cherry pick his performance too.
Omg. Who here thinks he’s worth way more than his contract and the Pirates got a steal? I’m with you and I’ll join your fight on this one.
If you agreed with Fairview above that Hayes should be compared only amongst third basemen, why do you think comparing Hayes to an outfielder is also a good one? Seems a bit conflicting, no?
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He flat out has been making stuff up. He has the disposition of an 8 year old so….
It's funny when someone is mocking you for what you do all the time and you miss the joke.
Literally, no one.
Except in Poker's fervent imagination.
In Poker's mind there are two choices. You either think that Hayes is a complete and total bust or you think he's a great player. There is no middle ground.
That's why he's so fun to make fun of.
@PittPoker who were the 5 or so you referring to so that we can pull the receipts and make fun of them?
He thinks that I think that Hayes is a great player. I have challenged him not once, not twice, but three times now to show one post where I said any such thing. So far he is a Ke'Bryan Hayes like 0-3.
Which, like I said, is why he's so fun to make fun of.
I’m probably one of the five as well, but I’ve only ever pushed back on the idea Hayes is a bust.
It's too much fun, but we'll probably burn in hell for tormenting his 7 year old psyche!
Did you hear? Hayes best 3rd baseman since Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt, Wade Boggs, George Brett and Chipper Jones all rolled up into one!!!
Oh, BTW.....Hayes with HR #8 tonight.
Seems he's finally healthy.
Pirates should be discussing an extension!!!
Seems he's finally healthy.
Pirates should be discussing an extension!!!
Evidently. This is the first I have ventured into this long and stupid thread.
Yep. It started really stupid on the premise that Hayes is a bust, and got stupider by the page.
It's like a basketball game thread.
Somebody misses a shot, he sucks.
Turns around and makes a shot, he's great!
This thread is pretty amazing. How many fake accounts did this lead to?
Maybe I’m late to the game here with this one, but forget about his defense. They’re now calling him “Hammerin’ Hayes” on the tv broadcast.
I’d like to lock Greg Brown and Poker in a room together. Talk about polar opposites.
I’d like to lock Greg Brown and Poker in a room together. Talk about polar opposites.
Greg Brown has gotten progressively more irritating as this season has gone on. It's like he feels the need to make an excuse, no matter how nonsensical, for every time a Pirates' player fails.
Did you hear about the announcer for another MLB team that is currently suspended by the club for sharing some team stats on the air that weren’t overly positive? I can’t imagine that ever happening to Brownie.
The guy for the Orioles. He actually was reinstated the other day.
And the thing is, what he said was actually a positive about the current team. He pointed out during their recent series in Tampa that the Orioles had already won as many games this season in Tampa than they had in the previous three season combined. They were something like 3-2 this year (at that time) and were 3-18 the three previous seasons.
That actually says something good about the team and where it is heading, but the Orioles' owner took it as a shot that he didn't spend enough money on the team the previous three years. Because he's a moron.
Ok, let's play this game. We want to compare him to these guys stat wise? And say he should be as good as them? Let's look at their contracts, Keeping in mind Hayes has an 8 year, $70 million dollar contract
Arenado: 8 years, $260 Mil (almost 4 x Hayes salary)
Riley: 10 years, $212 Mil
Machado: 11 years, $350 Mil
Turner: 2 years, $22 Mil at 38 (6 years, $98 Mil the 6 years prior)
McMahon : 6 years, $70 Mil
To say Hayes is expected to produce like them offensively, would be super disingenuous, if that was the expectation, he would be getting paid like them...
Very true. But I keep coming back to the original post and preface of this entire thread. He’s not a bust. That much is clear.
Heck, to say that he’s “serviceable” is selling him short.
Let’s say there are four buckets to place him in:
1) bust
2) serviceable
3) solid
4) star
For me, he’d be close to the solid bucket. At this very moment he is in it, but the sample size is too small. So maybe he is not in it yet, but he’s certainly looking like he will be there soon and for a very long time.
And no one that I can tell is saying he’s a star. As you said, no one pays a star $80 million.
What is a bit shocking though.......OPS+Slugging, a stat I am looking at more and more, Jack Suwinski is actually higher. Hayes doesn't walk enough.
Yeah. That’s a great example of a stat that needs to account for the fact that he doesn’t put the ball in play. I’m a Suwinsky fan and I really like his glove and his power, but something has to account for the fact that he fails to put the ball in play most of the time.
He looks paralyzed at the plate at times. He just can't pull the trigger.
Really weird.
He gets called out on strike 3 looking a lot too.
I'd say by this time it is more than a slump. He has to be taking extra BP, etc. but it isn't helping.
It isn't just left handed pitchers either. He's horrible against lefties, but still bad against righties as well!
Just one of the weirdest players ever. I really don’t follow the pirates farm system much and never know who their top 10 prospects are at any given time, but Suwinsky is a guy who seemed to have come out of nowhere to become a major leaguer. So there is no real pedigree there, right? So the fact that he has shown no ability to hit above .230 is not a surprise…yet he hits lots of home runs. Just a weird one. First there was Hayes and then Reynolds signed to team friendly deals. Then there was talk of trying to do the same with Keller and there was even talk earlier this year of doing it with Suwinsky. Life as a Pirate executive is fun.
he's hitting the ball great. even yesterday, two really hard hit balls deep in the outfield. think his average is up over .260.
Looking good.
Looking good.
I can’t wait for when Cruz comes back and hits like Suwinsky, and there’s the “O’Neill Cruz is a bust” thread. Not saying it will happen, but the likelihood that he flames out is greater than Hayes ever was.
I’m really fearful that everyone is overhyping that guy because he hits the ball really hard and Gregg Brown feels a tingle on a Cruz pop up to short because he hit the ball higher than anyone ever has in the history of baseball.
I understand your well thought out response, it is a good post.
However it leads to questions that need answered.
Please explain:
1. what money has to do with judging one's career?
2. why expectations for number one picks who never sign large contracts should be considered a good investment .
3. Why is there no poor man's HOF?
4 Why fans should celebrate that their team finished 26th out of 30 teams with the 31st lowest payroll.
I never argued in favor of any of those things. You compared his offensive stats directly to theirs. I simply said, he’s not that good, he won’t hit like them. So he’s not paid accordingly.
I also never argued that it was a good investment. Though I certainly could. You can absolutely win with Hayes as your 3B, and his contract isn’t prohibitive of building a roster around him.
Frankly I’m not even sure what you’re arguing more than just complaining about the state of the Pirates in general. Which is fair. But thats mostly moving the goal posts from your initial “Hayes isn’t elite” post
In all fairness, I must plead guilty.
You win with Hayes at 3rd but only if surrounded by some star power, IMHO.
Agreed, I think we all want him to be a star who can carry a team, but I think we’ve gotten to the point where that’s not who he will be. But if he can ops around .750 and maintain his defense, he’s a good piece. But you’re right, you need impact players around him to make sure there isn’t a need to rely on him to hit
