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OT: Shooting at Monroeville Mall......

Recruits, I agree.

I can speak on behalf of my family and the neighborhood that I lived, they had pride. If my Dad was still living, He'd be sick.
Our old street in Forest Hills.... Heavy bass from SUV's and older people scared to death....
 
Although there has been a trend for more outdoor smaller "lifestyle" shopping venues popping up everywhere, especially in cold climates large, successful shopping malls will flourish. Ross Park is typically jammed on the weekends. I was in Raleigh this past fall and needed to find a higher end store. I was amazed at the incredible, huge indoor malls there. I forget where I ended up, but it was definitely a cut above Ross Park and then found out there are evn more upscale malls than the one I had visited. So I have to disagree - IMHO, malls are alive and well.
 
I took a lot of sociology classes at Pitt in the 1970's, and we were taught that Penn Hills was the only major community in Western PA that was truly (and successfully) integrated, and the only community where you could find a genuine African American middle class.

The thinking at the time was that upwardly-mobile "people-of-color" were leaving the failing communities of Homewood and East Liberty and were "escaping" eastward to Penn Hills to raise their families.

When the steel mills began to close, a lot of those middle-class minorities, who were beginning to do well financially, were hit the hardest. Communities such as Penn Hills began to suffer the same fate as other communities that were dependent on steel. It just took Penn Hills longer to feel the effect, probably because Penn Hills was more like a "bedroom community" and the mills weren't located in Penn Hills like the towns on the Ohio and Mon Rivers.

Personally, my uncle - who was working in the steel industry and living in Penn Hills - saw what was coming; he beat the rush, bailed-out earlier than most, and found employment in the steel mills of Gary, Indiana.
 
Originally posted by pitt-girl:
Although there has been a trend for more outdoor smaller "lifestyle" shopping venues popping up everywhere, especially in cold climates large, successful shopping malls will flourish. Ross Park is typically jammed on the weekends. I was in Raleigh this past fall and needed to find a higher end store. I was amazed at the incredible, huge indoor malls there. I forget where I ended up, but it was definitely a cut above Ross Park and then found out there are evn more upscale malls than the one I had visited. So I have to disagree - IMHO, malls are alive and well.
There are several nice malls in that area, one of which is located on the outskirts of Durham - the Southpoint Mall (a/k/a "The Streets at Southpoint"). It's a combination of being both indoor and outdoor.

They take full advantage of their climate and have some outstanding outdoor shopping areas throughout the Raleigh-Durham area.
 
Originally posted by pitt-girl:
Although there has been a trend for more outdoor smaller "lifestyle" shopping venues popping up everywhere, especially in cold climates large, successful shopping malls will flourish. Ross Park is typically jammed on the weekends. I was in Raleigh this past fall and needed to find a higher end store. I was amazed at the incredible, huge indoor malls there. I forget where I ended up, but it was definitely a cut above Ross Park and then found out there are evn more upscale malls than the one I had visited. So I have to disagree - IMHO, malls are alive and well.
Malls are alive but not well and when the end comes, it will come very quickly.

Malls are heavily dependent on anchor stores such as JC Penny, Sears and Macy's and when one closes a location it's becoming very difficult for mall developers to find replacements - even in good areas. So if Sears or Penny's ever goes out of business, or simply decides to change it's business models, you could see hundreds of malls close nearly simultaneously.

http://www.businessinsider.com/shopping-malls-are-going-extinct-2014-1


About 15% of U.S. malls will fail or be converted into non-retail space within the next 10 years, according to Green Street Advisors, a real estate and REIT analytics firm. That's an increase from less than two years ago, when the firm predicted 10% of malls would fail or be converted.
"The risk of failure for a mall increases dramatically once you see anchor closures," said Cedric Lachance, managing director of Green Street Advisors. "Their health is very important ... and most of them are highly likely to continue closing stores."
Within 15 to 20 years, retail consultant Howard Davidowitz expects as many as half of America's shopping malls to fail. He predicts that only upscale shopping centers with anchors like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus will survive.
 
After the huge fight in December, I found it amusing that the Monroeville Police Chief would spin it & cite fights at other malls across the country as if their is some sort of mall violence epidemic sweeping the country.
 
The epidemic... No value of life and no one teaching them life's values...

I do have a question on the snoop dogg pants... Were they designed by the Police... Easier to catch having to hold them up ....
 
Originally posted by Pitt-Chains:
Recruits, I agree.

I can speak on behalf of my family and the neighborhood that I lived, they had pride. If my Dad was still living, He'd be sick.
Our old street in Forest Hills.... Heavy bass from SUV's and older people scared to death....
I'm not sure which rough street of Forest Hills you are referring, but it is one of the safest and nicest areas I have lived in my 20 years in SW PA.

My family and I lived there from 2005-2014 and I still own property there. Since the closing of the skating rink following a couple highly publicized parking lot drug deals/bust gone bad in the early 2000's, that police force and community done a remarkable job in maintaining the safety and desirability of the borough. Property values, especially on the Eastern side of Ardmore and Edgewood Acres are on a steady rise. Churchill, Edgewood, and Regent Square have maintained desirability, relative safety, and value, despite the state of some neighboring areas in decline. Monroeville should be taking notes of their actions in their response to these events.

BTW, if you haven't been to the Roman Bistro in Forest Hills, I HIGHLY recommend it. Great food, upscale atmosphere, great gameday viewing area, and fantastic beer and wine seasonal selection.
 
Jose, between Ardmore and the Pike side.

As a kid, place was absolutely the best. Have many friends and relatives still live there.
You are correct... Pete Climents old Studebaker's place is good, do you know the story about the original owners....?

The next time you are in the Bistro ask the bartender if he knows the story about Ace... If a true Forest Hills guy and a nostalgia bartender.. He'll know.

This post was edited on 2/9 2:04 PM by Pitt-Chains
 
Hmmmm.......interesting link. Thanks for posting.

I get that he's a retail consultant, but off the top of my head, Neiman Marcus and Saks are not nearly as successful as Nordstrom's or Macy's. I'm surprised these are the 2 anchors he would pick. Like I said, the indoor mall I was at in Raleigh was enormous and quite full of people. Lots and lots of stores. In my mind, the malls that aren't anchored by a more high-end store will phase out (see Century III and perhaps Monroeville Malls). But the others will continue to flourish. I don't see malls going away anytime soon.
 
Originally posted by JoseLind13:
I'm not sure which rough street of Forest Hills you are referring, but it is one of the safest and nicest areas I have lived in my 20 years in SW PA.


My family and I lived there from 2005-2014 and I still own property there. Since the closing of the skating rink following a couple highly publicized parking lot drug deals/bust gone bad in the early 2000's, that police force and community done a remarkable job in maintaining the safety and desirability of the borough. Property values, especially on the Eastern side of Ardmore and Edgewood Acres are on a steady rise. Churchill, Edgewood, and Regent Square have maintained desirability, relative safety, and value, despite the state of some neighboring areas in decline. Monroeville should be taking notes of their actions in their response to these events.

BTW, if you haven't been to the Roman Bistro in Forest Hills, I HIGHLY recommend it. Great food, upscale atmosphere, great gameday viewing area, and fantastic beer and wine seasonal selection.
Unfortunately Jose, what is going to continue to plague that area is lousy school districts. I love Regent Square, but if I have kids, I'm not looking to buy there unless you want to shell out for private. Nothing wrong with that, but the beauty of the Pittsburgh suburbs is that there are a handful of amazing public school systems, which makes the need for private less compelling. Until the demographics change, let's face it, Pittsburgh is definately more of a family city than single transients. Shadyside, Edgewood, Squirrel Hill, etc. will do okay, but the days of strong housing in the east beyond these pockets will never be strong again until the school districts improve. JMO.
 
Originally posted by pitt-girl:
Unfortunately Jose, what is going to continue to plague that area is lousy school districts. I love Regent Square, but if I have kids, I'm not looking to buy there unless you want to shell out for private. Nothing wrong with that, but the beauty of the Pittsburgh suburbs is that there are a handful of amazing public school systems, which makes the need for private less compelling. Until the demographics change, let's face it, Pittsburgh is definately more of a family city than single transients. Shadyside, Edgewood, Squirrel Hill, etc. will do okay, but the days of strong housing in the east beyond these pockets will never be strong again until the school districts improve. JMO.
Agreed, but that really isn't a new issue in the East. We bought a home (without kids) as a 10-year starter plan. As our kids arrived, we reached that point where we could afford to upgrade the size of our home and the suburbs offer plentiful options with great school districts, so that is where we landed. We sold our East home at a decent profit to an affluent couple as their own starter home plan, so the cycle continues. However, not everyone is starter home buyers in the neighborhoods. The longer-term families with kids in our neighborhood used East Catholic, Trinity, Environmental Charter, or Shady Side. Cyber is also growing hugely popular in the district. Most neighbors refused to use Woody elementary and middle school, but some used Woody High, after going private for K through 8th grade.

The East's good neighborhoods will likely continue to sustain under this model and have done well with it, but you are correct... the areas where private schools are not affordable or are borderline affordable to residents are likely to struggle to keep long-term residents, as a result of the school districts.

This post was edited on 2/9 5:10 PM by JoseLind13
 
Monroeville mall is enacting a rule that on Friday and Saturday nights, anyone under the age of 18 must be accompanied by an adult..
 
Originally posted by pitt-girl:
Hmmmm.......interesting link. Thanks for posting.

I get that he's a retail consultant, but off the top of my head, Neiman Marcus and Saks are not nearly as successful as Nordstrom's or Macy's. I'm surprised these are the 2 anchors he would pick. Like I said, the indoor mall I was at in Raleigh was enormous and quite full of people. Lots and lots of stores. In my mind, the malls that aren't anchored by a more high-end store will phase out (see Century III and perhaps Monroeville Malls). But the others will continue to flourish. I don't see malls going away anytime soon.
Well, then I guess this discussion is at an impasse.
 
Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

There is a common theme to all of these incidents at Monroeville Mall, but you cannot discuss this because it is not politically correct.
Just curious . . . is this "common theme" that can't be discussed because of "political correctness" also a factor in the stabbing rampage that occurred at nearby Franklin Regional High School not all that long ago?

By no means do I wish to minimize EITHER incident, but it's interesting that I'm unable to recall such a level of incendiary rhetoric on this board in the wake of the FR incident. Maybe I missed it. I mean, talk about "problems" drifting east from Pittsburgh . . .
 
Originally posted by TempleBAPittMPA:

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

There is a common theme to all of these incidents at Monroeville Mall, but you cannot discuss this because it is not politically correct.
Just curious . . . is this "common theme" that can't be discussed because of "political correctness" also a factor in the stabbing rampage that occurred at nearby Franklin Regional High School not all that long ago?

By no means do I wish to minimize EITHER incident, but it's interesting that I'm unable to recall such a level of incendiary rhetoric on this board in the wake of the FR incident. Maybe I missed it. I mean, talk about "problems" drifting east from Pittsburgh . . .
Way to inject the political correctness. You are right, there is no issues with the youth of a certain race. None. Zero. Nothing at all in that community. Thought last night I had to sift through that genius who already was in juvy for stealing a car at 14, then the 3 people shot in a driveby in Homewood, at a Police Chief's house, then the little cherub who shot his "friend" then took a selfie with the body. Yeah....you know what yesterday was called? Monday.

We can tap dance around this all you want, but it doesn't solve the problem. Most of the school shootings/incidents are perpetrated by white kids. More than most of the shootings in this country are perpetuated by black youths. Let's be honest about this once in awhile, instead of taking that liberal stance of trying not to say the obvious because you don't want to offend a large voting block.
 
Yes its always good to over-react when a family is out in a public area and gets shot by a thug shooting randomly because he was disrespected by another teenager.
 
Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

Way to inject the political correctness.
Huh? YOU'RE the one who injected "political correctness". I merely asked a question in response to it.
 
It's only incendiary if you get all fired up about it.

I have seen people get fired up about all kinds of silly things and they all want to blame someone else.

If you cant be offended, you won't be offended.

But sometimes it just feels good to get upset.
 
Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:
Originally posted by TempleBAPittMPA:

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

There is a common theme to all of these incidents at Monroeville Mall, but you cannot discuss this because it is not politically correct.
Just curious . . . is this "common theme" that can't be discussed because of "political correctness" also a factor in the stabbing rampage that occurred at nearby Franklin Regional High School not all that long ago?

By no means do I wish to minimize EITHER incident, but it's interesting that I'm unable to recall such a level of incendiary rhetoric on this board in the wake of the FR incident. Maybe I missed it. I mean, talk about "problems" drifting east from Pittsburgh . . .
Way to inject the political correctness. You are right, there is no issues with the youth of a certain race. None. Zero. Nothing at all in that community. Thought last night I had to sift through that genius who already was in juvy for stealing a car at 14, then the 3 people shot in a driveby in Homewood, at a Police Chief's house, then the little cherub who shot his "friend" then took a selfie with the body. Yeah....you know what yesterday was called? Monday.

We can tap dance around this all you want, but it doesn't solve the problem. Most of the school shootings/incidents are perpetrated by white kids. More than most of the shootings in this country are perpetuated by black youths. Let's be honest about this once in awhile, instead of taking that liberal stance of trying not to say the obvious because you don't want to offend a large voting block.
lol why does this post not surprise me.
The Irish and Italians behaved even worse when they were the ones experiencing similar poverty and discrimination.
In your attempts to make black people look bad, the only people you made look bad is yourself.
Connecting random variables without taking other variables into account is the sign of someone with low intelligence...not that you ever came across as one of the bright posters here.
How's that for "political correctness."
 
The Irish and Italians behaved even worse when they were the ones experiencing similar poverty and discrimination.


No dog in this fight but I'm pretty sure that statistics (incarceration rates in relation to population percentage) would show this is not even close to being the case.....
 
Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:
Originally posted by TempleBAPittMPA:

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

There is a common theme to all of these incidents at Monroeville Mall, but you cannot discuss this because it is not politically correct.
Just curious . . . is this "common theme" that can't be discussed because of "political correctness" also a factor in the stabbing rampage that occurred at nearby Franklin Regional High School not all that long ago?

By no means do I wish to minimize EITHER incident, but it's interesting that I'm unable to recall such a level of incendiary rhetoric on this board in the wake of the FR incident. Maybe I missed it. I mean, talk about "problems" drifting east from Pittsburgh . . .
Way to inject the political correctness. You are right, there is no issues with the youth of a certain race. None. Zero. Nothing at all in that community. Thought last night I had to sift through that genius who already was in juvy for stealing a car at 14, then the 3 people shot in a driveby in Homewood, at a Police Chief's house, then the little cherub who shot his "friend" then took a selfie with the body. Yeah....you know what yesterday was called? Monday.

We can tap dance around this all you want, but it doesn't solve the problem. Most of the school shootings/incidents are perpetrated by white kids. More than most of the shootings in this country are perpetuated by black youths. Let's be honest about this once in awhile, instead of taking that liberal stance of trying not to say the obvious because you don't want to offend a large voting block.
Ok, so let's abolish political correctness and state that it is a problem with black teens: what exactly is your solution? Pray tell, how does one solve such an issue?

Some people are soooo eager to play the race card, and yet no one is willing to put forth a solution. Are you one of the naive people who think sagging pants and hip-hop have corrupted black teens? Do you think heavy-handed policing will cause them to see the error of their thuggish ways? If being a black teen means being statistically more likely to perpetrate a crime, how do we stop black teens from being black?

Saying that there is a 'common theme' among these crimes, and insinuating that it is race, is completely and utterly pointless. It's pointing out race for the sake of pointing out race, and I hate to break it to you, but that is racist.

This post was edited on 2/10 3:14 PM by burnie1105
 
Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

Originally posted by TempleBAPittMPA:


Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:

There is a common theme to all of these incidents at Monroeville Mall, but you cannot discuss this because it is not politically correct.
Just curious . . . is this "common theme" that can't be discussed because of "political correctness" also a factor in the stabbing rampage that occurred at nearby Franklin Regional High School not all that long ago?

By no means do I wish to minimize EITHER incident, but it's interesting that I'm unable to recall such a level of incendiary rhetoric on this board in the wake of the FR incident. Maybe I missed it. I mean, talk about "problems" drifting east from Pittsburgh . . .
Way to inject the political correctness. You are right, there is no issues with the youth of a certain race. None. Zero. Nothing at all in that community. Thought last night I had to sift through that genius who already was in juvy for stealing a car at 14, then the 3 people shot in a driveby in Homewood, at a Police Chief's house, then the little cherub who shot his "friend" then took a selfie with the body. Yeah....you know what yesterday was called? Monday.

We can tap dance around this all you want, but it doesn't solve the problem. Most of the school shootings/incidents are perpetrated by white kids. More than most of the shootings in this country are perpetuated by black youths. Let's be honest about this once in awhile, instead of taking that liberal stance of trying not to say the obvious because you don't want to offend a large voting block.
I would say its more of an issue of poverty than it is race. It just so happens that large urban areas happen to have a large population that is both black AND poor. If you look at the crime rates in places like Fayette County or other more rural areas, I'd bet its similar per capita. Its just nobody lives there and nobody cares.

The illegal drug industry has exploited this poverty in an effort to maximize profits. The drugs get sold one way or the other and the collateral damage is the stuff you see on the news every night. Its part of "the game." And since its in a major city with a large population, its gets reported and people kind-of-care. In rural areas, the same stuff goes on, but as I said, because its only a fraction of the population further away from the city, nobody cares.
 
"The game"

If you really want to see the game played.... Go to Walmart in North Versailles...
Everyone does need a break..
"The game" is a way of life...another kid..another pay day...not racist.. Just the truth.
 
Originally posted by pittiswhereiamfrom:
The Irish and Italians were never criticized?

How were they even worse?
They were definitely "criticized" in a similar fashion by the right wingers of their day.

The Italians favorite games were gang warfare consisting of bombings, machine gun drive byes, and extortion and kidnap-for-ransom of people not even involved in organized crime. They were often front page news in major US cities in the late 19th and early 20th century for kidnapping people and mailing pieces of their skin to family members until they got their ransom money. Those stories are all over the Pittsburgh Press' online Google archives. I'd say the Italians initiated the No Snitching culture here, but the patriots of the 1700s and Irish of the 1800s beat them to it.

The Irish were more hated, probably because there were more of them, they were more rambunctious, and they got an earlier start here. Whole political movements evolved from the public's racism toward the Irish. Politicians ran on platforms of deporting the Irish and keeping America "American." Luckily they arrived in such huge numbers during the famine and bred so often that they were able to eventually gain power through sheer numbers via Tammany Hall.

And btw, it wasn't the free black people that injured thousands and killed over 100 people in Manhattan in response to being drafted to fight for the North during the Civil War while those with $300 (about $5,000 in today's value) could buy their way out of service. It was the Irish. They burned down an orphanage, among other buildings. And they actually charged Northern troops who had to march to NYC from Gettysburg immediately after fighting Robert E Lee's boys for 3 days because the Irish defeated the NYPD and took over most of the island with nobody to stop them. The riot went on for 4.5 days. And that was just the major one. Their main targets were who they blamed for the Civil War - rich people, the government, and blacks. 90% of the black population fled Manhattan after that and never returned. Better off in the Bronx and Brooklyn than getting strung up by a pack of Paddies.

Lets just say it didn't help the Irish image here and abroad. They were routinely depicted as uncouth gorillas dressed like leprechauns and waving whiskey in countless political cartoons that also exist in Google's news archives. A Harpers Weekly editorial from described the Irish as an unappreciative lot who've thanked America for its generosity (lol) with superstition, crime and ignorance...citing a statistic describing 75% of criminals in America as Irish.

They eventually bred so much that they were able to vote their way into city hall and hence police forces. Once they held office, they were able to set policies that benefited their people instead of leaving them to rot.

Funny how it all comes back to poverty and squalor.

I'm Irish/Italian btw, which is how I found myself in this niche hobby. I don't get my info from radio windbags, hate websites or randomly drawn conclusions. I've read hundreds of editorials and news accounts about the Irish and Italians (and early colonists) in America and have picked through at least 50 books . Several are free online via Google Books. Many can be found for under $8 in used bookstores.



This post was edited on 2/10 4:54 PM by rpost3
 
well the irish and Italians have evolved since the post-civil war days... others, not so much.. I do believe the breakdown of the family structure and kids growing up in single households really leads to these problems with the youth.. It's nice to have a mom and especially a dad, there to teach, discipline and show you the way. Would love to see a study done on correlation bewtween kids ending up in the criminal system who grew up in single households compared to having 2 parents..
 
Originally posted by Pghfan:

well the irish and Italians have evolved since the post-civil war days...others not so much.
Uh huh. And how'd they manage that?
That's a rhetorical question, btw. No one here but me has any idea b/c I'm the only one interested enough to look for the answer.
hint: I touched on it a bit above. But just a bit.
Feel free to read up on it at the Carnegie and Hillman, the used book stores on Craig Street, or Google's News archives.
Or just decide to keep irrationally hating black people. It's up to you.
 
Come on rpost with this hating black people crap. I think for the most part people are indifferent until it becomes an open issue. Thinking there is a problem does not equate to hating anyone. But I am sure it makes you feel like a big timer to bash others ignorantly.

You are far worse than anyone that you claim hates black people.

In actuality, the problem is no different than anywhere in the world where there is no expectation of legitimate success and no cultivation of human potential. That is a clear problem in certain parts of our society.

The hate isn't for black people. But it is more likely to be for a phoney like you.

Go read some books on how not to be an arrogant fool. They probably have those at Hillman.
 
I've read enough of his posts to k ow he hates black people.
And my response wasn't an invitation for lowbrow opinions from people who can't handle the truth.
 
You are more of the high brow type who has more interest in his own "intelligence" than any kind of truth.

This post was edited on 2/10 6:31 PM by pittiswhereiamfrom
 
Originally posted by rpost3:
I've read enough of his posts to k ow he hates black people.
And my response wasn't an invitation for lowbrow opinions from people who can't handle the truth.
To be politically correct:

How many gangbangers shot and killed people last year?

How many NRA members shot and killed people last year?

How many people were shot with stolen/illegal (underage et.al) guns?

Get my point?
 
My solution to how to START to end inequality in

this country: End local property taxes as the means to fund local school districts. Fund all schools nationwide with federal taxes dollars. Each school in the country would be funded on a per student basis. End "this lets move to an area with the best school district". Let us try to produce an equal educational opportunity for all.

Forced busing did not end school segregation, but the white flight it caused killed our cities. People just moved away and maintained their lily white schools.

A kid in Braddock deserves the same shot at an education as a kid in North Allegheny.
This post was edited on 2/11 12:13 AM by gary2
 
Originally posted by pittiswhereiamfrom:


In actuality, the problem is no different than anywhere in the world where there is no expectation of legitimate success and no cultivation of human potential. That is a clear problem in certain parts of our society.
This is exactly right. No matter where you are in the world, when you have the combination of poverty, lack of quality education, and lack of quality employment, you're going to have crime. Simple as that. The US keeps crime lower than it otherwise would be by making taxpayers fund programs like welfare and other public assistance and subsidized programs. However, if you truly wanted to eradicate most crime, you'd have to go to the extreme of guaranteeing every High School graduate a $30,000 per year job (if they choose not to attend college/trade school) that has opportunity for advancement. Obviously, that would never happen, nor am I saying it should. But, unless criminals and would-be criminals could see the light at the end of the tunnel and were incented to forego a life of crime because there is a good job waiting for them upon HS graduation, the cycle will continue forever.

There just isnt enough opportunity given the backgrounds of these criminals to make them say "no" to crime and "yes" to studying, hard work, and perseverence.
 
Originally posted by rpost3:



Originally posted by pittiswhereiamfrom:
The Irish and Italians were never criticized?

How were they even worse?
They were definitely "criticized" in a similar fashion by the right wingers of their day.

The Italians favorite games were gang warfare consisting of bombings, machine gun drive byes, and extortion and kidnap-for-ransom of people not even involved in organized crime. They were often front page news in major US cities in the late 19th and early 20th century for kidnapping people and mailing pieces of their skin to family members until they got their ransom money. Those stories are all over the Pittsburgh Press' online Google archives. I'd say the Italians initiated the No Snitching culture here, but the patriots of the 1700s and Irish of the 1800s beat them to it.

The Irish were more hated, probably because there were more of them, they were more rambunctious, and they got an earlier start here. Whole political movements evolved from the public's racism toward the Irish. Politicians ran on platforms of deporting the Irish and keeping America "American." Luckily they arrived in such huge numbers during the famine and bred so often that they were able to eventually gain power through sheer numbers via Tammany Hall.

And btw, it wasn't the free black people that injured thousands and killed over 100 people in Manhattan in response to being drafted to fight for the North during the Civil War while those with $300 (about $5,000 in today's value) could buy their way out of service. It was the Irish. They burned down an orphanage, among other buildings. And they actually charged Northern troops who had to march to NYC from Gettysburg immediately after fighting Robert E Lee's boys for 3 days because the Irish defeated the NYPD and took over most of the island with nobody to stop them. The riot went on for 4.5 days. And that was just the major one. Their main targets were who they blamed for the Civil War - rich people, the government, and blacks. 90% of the black population fled Manhattan after that and never returned. Better off in the Bronx and Brooklyn than getting strung up by a pack of Paddies.

Lets just say it didn't help the Irish image here and abroad. They were routinely depicted as uncouth gorillas dressed like leprechauns and waving whiskey in countless political cartoons that also exist in Google's news archives. A Harpers Weekly editorial from described the Irish as an unappreciative lot who've thanked America for its generosity (lol) with superstition, crime and ignorance...citing a statistic describing 75% of criminals in America as Irish.

They eventually bred so much that they were able to vote their way into city hall and hence police forces. Once they held office, they were able to set policies that benefited their people instead of leaving them to rot.

Funny how it all comes back to poverty and squalor.

I'm Irish/Italian btw, which is how I found myself in this niche hobby. I don't get my info from radio windbags, hate websites or randomly drawn conclusions. I've read hundreds of editorials and news accounts about the Irish and Italians (and early colonists) in America and have picked through at least 50 books . Several are free online via Google Books. Many can be found for under $8 in used bookstores.





This post was edited on 2/10 4:54 PM by rpost3
Sorry. I am not buying the narrative of just mindless shooting as being a condition of poverty. If it involved a robbery, maybe. But it is typical liberal narrative that tries and make an excuse for a group of people that seem to not have any control of themselves nor their emotions. Why does being poor mean you should own a gun? What is the connection and reason? Bull crap.

And Italians and Irish...give me a break. What also happened to the Italians and Irish? They worked to assimilate through the stereotypes to become constructive parts of sociery.

EVERY group has been disrespected, have been judged against, have been stereotyped to varying degrees, that doesn't give any group the right and carte blanche to just take it out to turn the streets into Deadwood and the OK Corral because someone looked at you wrong.

It is BS. Complete and utter BS. Doesn't matter if it is an African American kid, or a goofy, nerdy white kid who is disrespected and bullied. The problem is, the latter is big new, leafing off the news, and has op/ed columns written ad nauseum, the former almost expected, a dog bites man type of story. Isn't this wrong?

And to the African American community who cries out for equality, aren't you guys tired of the liberal narrative that suggest that you in fact aren't equal, that you need special rules and consideration to succeed in this world? Cause that ain't equality.

And to the same community, one white cop shooting a black kid can evoke 1000's of people protesting in anger, while 1000's of black kids shooting a black kid evokes absolutely nothing from your community and its so called "leaders".

Nope. No way. I don't think MLK was dreaming of a society like this. Where black on black crime is not just accepted, but excused by the white intelligentsia.

And I know, even someone like me bringing this up will comes with the risk of being labeled a "racist" and that is the type of liberal terrorism that now exists, holding people's opinions and outrages hostage in the name of being politically correct. I do believe it in equality. And I would like to believe that he African American community would stop accepting these excuses and stop buying into the narrative and taking care of their own communities.

One final note comrade rpost, commenting on this and criticizing this group is not "hate". Will you guys stop with this crap? You are again of one those liberal elites who live in the suburbs and "studies" the plight of the bourgeoisie, and come up with your reasons that it is everyone elses fault.

Here's a clue to those suffering poverty, GO TO SCHOOL! GO TO SCHOOL! STUDY! STUDY HARDER! GO TO COLLEGE! DON'T DROP OUT!! The difference in the long past, there was REAL poverty where kids had to drop out to work in the fields or sweatshops to help support. With all the social programs now, that is almost gone. GO TO SCHOOL! STUDY! DON'T DROP OUT! It might not make you rich, but that is the key, the building blocks, the steps to a better life. Doesn't matter if you are from the mean streets of Homewood, or the Appalachian trailer parks of West Virginia and Greene County. There is a blueprint. But the Liberal Elite have already determined you can't compete with the other parts of society, so drop out, shoot, go at it, it is not your fault. Yeah, that is really helpful and uplifting isn't it?

No excuses for not GOING TO SCHOOL! STUDY! There will always be groups that have an advantage. Hell, there are groups that have an advantage over me. That is not an excuse for me saying "aww eff it, that rich kid with the Roman Numeral at the end of his name gets to go to Harvard with lesser grades.." So what. We all face people who discriminate against us, we all have people who have built in advantages over us, that is no excuse to act like a societal pariah and just take from the community. Bull Crap! Sorry.
This post was edited on 2/11 8:26 AM by recruitsreadtheseboards
 
Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:


Why does being poor mean you should own a gun? What is the connection and reason? Bull crap.
Most inner-city violence is connected to drugs. I'd suspect the Monroeville Mall shooting had some drug connection also. People usually don't shoot people because they don't like the person or because they stole that person's girlfriend. I mean, yea, that happens, but its pretty rare. Most inner-city crime and crime in other like areas (the Eastern suburbs, McKeesport, Clairton, Duquesne, etc) is related to drugs, drug deals, and "the game."

You ask what being poor has to do with anything? The higher-level suppliers have exploited the "poorness" of these youths for decades by giving them drugs to sell and "turf" to protect. They know that these kids, because of the combination of poverty, lack of quality education, and lack of opportunity, are prime candidates to partake in "the game." There's a reason they don't stand outside of Upper St. Clair High School and try to recruit some of those kids to join their game. Most of those kids have big plans for their future. They have been better educated and have witnessed what success and money can do through their parents, relatives, friends' parents, etc. A couple bucks for standing on the corner and all the crap that comes with it doesn't sound like that great of an idea to them. But, to a poor 16 year old kid from the inner-city who is reading at a 4th grade level, who has relatives in jail (maybe one or both parents), a couple bucks for standing on the corner along with the opportunity for advancement and even more money if he's good at it sounds like a pretty good deal. It beats working at McDonald's.

Poverty has everything to do with crime. Everything.
 
Originally posted by Sean Miller Fan:

Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:


Why does being poor mean you should own a gun? What is the connection and reason? Bull crap.
Most inner-city violence is connected to drugs. I'd suspect the Monroeville Mall shooting had some drug connection also. People usually don't shoot people because they don't like the person or because they stole that person's girlfriend. I mean, yea, that happens, but its pretty rare. Most inner-city crime and crime in other like areas (the Eastern suburbs, McKeesport, Clairton, Duquesne, etc) is related to drugs, drug deals, and "the game."

You ask what being poor has to do with anything? The higher-level suppliers have exploited the "poorness" of these youths for decades by giving them drugs to sell and "turf" to protect. They know that these kids, because of the combination of poverty, lack of quality education, and lack of opportunity, are prime candidates to partake in "the game." There's a reason they don't stand outside of Upper St. Clair High School and try to recruit some of those kids to join their game. Most of those kids have big plans for their future. They have been better educated and have witnessed what success and money can do through their parents, relatives, friends' parents, etc. A couple bucks for standing on the corner and all the crap that comes with it doesn't sound like that great of an idea to them. But, to a poor 16 year old kid from the inner-city who is reading at a 4th grade level, who has relatives in jail (maybe one or both parents), a couple bucks for standing on the corner along with the opportunity for advancement and even more money if he's good at it sounds like a pretty good deal. It beats working at McDonald's.

Poverty has everything to do with crime. Everything.
Education has everything to do with poverty. Everything.
 
Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:


Originally posted by Sean Miller Fan:



Originally posted by recruitsreadtheseboards:


Why does being poor mean you should own a gun? What is the connection and reason? Bull crap.
Most inner-city violence is connected to drugs. I'd suspect the Monroeville Mall shooting had some drug connection also. People usually don't shoot people because they don't like the person or because they stole that person's girlfriend. I mean, yea, that happens, but its pretty rare. Most inner-city crime and crime in other like areas (the Eastern suburbs, McKeesport, Clairton, Duquesne, etc) is related to drugs, drug deals, and "the game."

You ask what being poor has to do with anything? The higher-level suppliers have exploited the "poorness" of these youths for decades by giving them drugs to sell and "turf" to protect. They know that these kids, because of the combination of poverty, lack of quality education, and lack of opportunity, are prime candidates to partake in "the game." There's a reason they don't stand outside of Upper St. Clair High School and try to recruit some of those kids to join their game. Most of those kids have big plans for their future. They have been better educated and have witnessed what success and money can do through their parents, relatives, friends' parents, etc. A couple bucks for standing on the corner and all the crap that comes with it doesn't sound like that great of an idea to them. But, to a poor 16 year old kid from the inner-city who is reading at a 4th grade level, who has relatives in jail (maybe one or both parents), a couple bucks for standing on the corner along with the opportunity for advancement and even more money if he's good at it sounds like a pretty good deal. It beats working at McDonald's.

Poverty has everything to do with crime. Everything.
Education has everything to do with poverty. Everything.
I'd agree that if these kids just buckled down, studied hard, kept their head on straight, and went to college or trade school, they would not become part of the never-ending cycle. In watching college sports, we hear countless success stories of kids who have done this. However, they are in the minority. Yes, education goes a long way in ending poverty, but you have to put yourselves in their position.

You can bring in all the motivational speakers and try to help these kids through different programs but at the end of the day, when they are living in run-down housing in a drug-infested, crime-ridden area, with one parent in jail, the other on drugs, and an older brother who is a drug dealer, telling that kid "if you study really hard, you can go to Pitt or Penn State and become an accountant" that doesn't resonate, does it?

I understand your point of view, but a lot of people don't realize the almost impossible obstacles these youths face.

This post was edited on 2/11 8:48 AM by Sean Miller Fan
 
When is enough ENOUGH? This thread has been running for 5 days on a PITT FOOTBALL board, and although it may have started out as a harmless thought in the mind of pitt-girl(not so sure about that). It has clearly spiraled out of control into a back and forth of who can scream the loudest about their stance on race in this country. This is a PITT FOOTBALL board!! I'm sure you can find plenty of other sites to spew your opinions on this subject, but again this is a PITT FOOTBALL board. How about we come up with topics on...I don't know PITT FOOTBALL!! One person with the most negativity to say about black people is the person who chose the handle RECRUITS READ THESE BOARDS!! Let's hope for PITT FOOTBALLs sake that you are wrong sir, because if I were a black recruit who was just contacted by PITT or a parent of one, & I read the comments in this thread by PITT FOOTBALLs "most dedicated fans"...I would be looking elsewhere for sure!!
 
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