OT: TJ is building a new $100 million high school

[ratking17]

So Levance hit upon a huge point about Pitt having more students in the upper campus. Let's put a massive stadium in the hill district, tear up the projects, and make a massive parking lot between consol and the new pitt stadium. Just have the open end face the cathedral.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Let's look at this more closely. Pitt determines that the Field House was not about the be upgraded, and they move to the Civic Arena. If the Pens leave town, then Pitt still gets use of the arena. If Pens stay then Pitt works with them to use the new arena, like some other NFL and NCAA teams do now. Same thing as renting Heinz Field. The same arguments apply. Better arena. More parking, Easier access. etc etc. Pitt and the state save $160 million dollars and Pitt can use its portion to fund other purposes, like athletic endowments and other academic needs.

How is this not the same thing?

So we're still going with the "sharing an arena with an NHL team is the same as sharing a stadium with an NFL team in terms of coordination" thing, eh?

 

[HailtoPitt]

So we're still going with the "sharing an arena with an NHL team is the same as sharing a stadium with an NFL team in terms of coordination" thing, eh?

Sure. Other teams do it, and it seems to work. Was it worth spending $160 million because we want to avoid some scheduling headaches? Keep in mind that there would be some benefits as well, like improved parking and easier access to major roads.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Sure. Other teams do it, and it seems to work. Was it worth spending $160 million because we want to avoid some scheduling headaches? Keep in mind that there would be some benefits as well, like improved parking and easier access to major roads.

What other teams?

 

[Pghfan]

I'd like to see the Consol used more often for college hoops. I know they bid and get the ncaa tourney but maybe a pre-season tourney, How bout what they used to do in philly with the local philly schools competing?? How bout an annual Christmas tourney with pitt, Duquesne, wvu, and psu? Involve women's hoops too.. it's a hell of a venue, should have more real events..

 

[HailtoPitt]

What other teams?

Some of this might be incorrect or dated, but I think Georgetown shares an arena with the Wizards and Capitals. Marquette shares and arena with and NBA and minor league hockey team. I think Seton Hall shares an arena with several pro teams. And others I can't think of right now.

Then there are a bunch of NHL and NBA teams that share arenas.

Like I said, did we pay $160 million dollars to build a separate arena to avoid scheduling conflicts that other teams seem to work out?

I like the Pete. Gad it was built. But anyone who believes that a new football stadium would be a waste of money, has to believe that the Pete was wasteful spending also.

 

[NTOP]

Let's look at this more closely. Pitt determines that the Field House was not feasible to be upgraded, and they move to the Civic Arena. If the Pens leave town, then Pitt still gets use of the arena. If Pens stay then Pitt works with them to use the new arena, like some other NFL and NCAA teams do now. Same thing as renting Heinz Field. The same arguments apply. Better arena. More parking, Easier access. etc etc. Pitt and the state save $160 million dollars and Pitt can use its portion to fund other purposes, like athletic endowments and other academic needs.

How is this not the same thing?

Because your argument is built on "ifs". We didn't want to keep playing games at the Igloo. Too much hassle with schedules, etc. We NEEDED a good arena for hoops.....we got a great one. At the time, the Igloo & P{itt Stadium were a mess. The deal with the Rooneys gave us two solutions......one half-assed (Heinz Field....6-7 days/year) the other a gym used for 20+ men's games + 20+ ladies' games + workout facilities + convocations, etc. The cost to bring Pitt Stadium up to standards was around $200 million...THEN. And we'd still need a $100 million gym, somewhere.
Your contention that we spent $160 million is B.S. That's like me saying I paid $400K for the house I bought 25 years ago.....not the $190K then. And the state chipped in some $$$.
We also got the Southside facility I hated losing our on-campus stadium, but fiscally.....there was no choice. What if the Pens HAD left town?? They blackmailed/paid the pols to get their new joint. Would we be happy with all our BB games played there?? No way the city would fix it for us.

 

[Pittbaseball11]

Some of this might be incorrect or dated, but I think Georgetown shares an arena with the Wizards and Capitals. Marquette shares and arena with and NBA and minor league hockey team. I think Seton Hall shares an arena with several pro teams. And others I can't think of right now.

Then there are a bunch of NHL and NBA teams that share arenas.

Like I said, did we pay $160 million dollars to build a separate arena to avoid scheduling conflicts that other teams seem to work out?

I like the Pete. Gad it was built. But anyone who believes that a new football stadium would be a waste of money, has to believe that the Pete was wasteful spending also.

I think the Georgetown case is compelling, although I do still wonder how much extra Pitt itself paid to have its own arena -- particularly since the state funded $53MM of the cost of construction (pre-inflation). You figure Pitt itself paid less than half of the Pete's cost of construction just using John Petersen's donation and the state's contributions alone. Those are drops in the bucket for a football stadium -- provided they get them at all.

 

[UPitt '89]

Let's look at this more closely. Pitt determines that the Field House was not feasible to be upgraded, and they move to the Civic Arena. If the Pens leave town, then Pitt still gets use of the arena. If Pens stay then Pitt works with them to use the new arena, like some other NFL and NCAA teams do now. Same thing as renting Heinz Field. The same arguments apply. Better arena. More parking, Easier access. etc etc. Pitt and the state save $160 million dollars and Pitt can use its portion to fund other purposes, like athletic endowments and other academic needs.

How is this not the same thing?

Because the Petersen Events Center is used for more than just basketball..... more than just athletic events. For some reason, you can't get that into your head. You keep trying to compare apples to oranges, and it isn't working.

Some other corrections to what you posted:

1. Pitt does not "rent" Heinz Field. Heinz Field is owned and run by the Pittsburgh Stadium Authority and Pitt is one of two primary tenants who use it for free. Pitt doesn't pay to use Heinz Field.

2. The existence of the PEC is a big reason why Pitt is in the ACC right now instead of wallowing away in the AAC. It was cited by Commissioner Swofford as playing a role.

Pitt needed the PEC in order to survive as a big-time athletic university. It's joint venture with the Steelers on the South Side and with Heinz Field were also necessary for the same reason.

Sharing a state-of-the-art stadium 3 miles from campus that we'll use 6 or 7 times a year was a *WIN* for Pitt.

 

[UPitt '89]

I like the Pete. Gad it was built. But anyone who believes that a new football stadium would be a waste of money, has to believe that the Pete was wasteful spending also.

Sigh. A new arena (the Pete) that is used 80-100 times a year is not a waste of money. A new football stadium that costs twice as much, uses twice as much land, and that is used less than 10 times a year *IS* a waste of money.

You're pretty hard-headed. You keep on comparing apples to watermelons.

 

[Pittx9]

Some of this might be incorrect or dated, but I think Georgetown shares an arena with the Wizards and Capitals. Marquette shares and arena with and NBA and minor league hockey team. I think Seton Hall shares an arena with several pro teams. And others I can't think of right now.

Then there are a bunch of NHL and NBA teams that share arenas.

Like I said, did we pay $160 million dollars to build a separate arena to avoid scheduling conflicts that other teams seem to work out?

I like the Pete. Gad it was built. But anyone who believes that a new football stadium would be a waste of money, has to believe that the Pete was wasteful spending also.

NC State hoops and the Hurricanes also. St. John's hoops and the Knicks. Seton Hall did when the Nets were in Jersey. There may even be more that I can't think of either.

 

[levance2]

Let's look at this more closely. Pitt determines that the Field House was not feasible to be upgraded, and they move to the Civic Arena. If the Pens leave town, then Pitt still gets use of the arena. If Pens stay then Pitt works with them to use the new arena, like some other NFL and NCAA teams do now. Same thing as renting Heinz Field. The same arguments apply. Better arena. More parking, Easier access. etc etc. Pitt and the state save $160 million dollars and Pitt can use its portion to fund other purposes, like athletic endowments and other academic needs.

How is this not the same thing?

You have to realize that moving from Pitt Stadium into a BRAND NEW Heinz Field is significantly different than moving from Fitz into a 50 year old hockey arena, right? Capacity aside, Mellon Arena was about as dilapidated as the Fitz by that point. There was no Consol at that point, which was the entire reason the Pens were threatening to leave. Why on earth would Pitt have wanted to pin their hopes on that?

The other thing you are blatantly ignoring is that this all resulted from Three Rivers being torn down. PNC Park was being build. Heinz Field was being built. There is no doubt about either of those occurring. Renovating Pitt Stadium or building a hockey arena were not in the same situation. Pitt could still be playing in PS and FFH today (maybe in the A-10) if they hadn't made the right decisions back then.

 

[Pghfan]

Am I the only person on this planet that thought the Civic Arena was bad-ass? I loved watching pens games in there, remember a sweet pitt vs. Cuse game in 86, with the whole damn arena chanting "KIDNAPPED" to Rony, with some "We got your uncle" chants by the student section. Venue alone, you couldn't get better than the Arena. Was at the 90 all star NHL game, never has any other sporting event had the intensity and noise as when Mario was announced at that game. I've been to many playoff games at Heinz and 3 rivers and nothing compared..

 

[Pittx9]

Pitt could still be playing in PS and FFH today (maybe in the A-10) if they hadn't made the right decisions back then.

That's one thing that gets brought up a lot, regarding the direction of the athletic programs and looking at them from a business standpoint, Steve Pederson put Pitt in this position. I mean, I still thought his second tenure was just absolutely horrendous, but I think that's because while he could've just overseen the big things like conference change, stadium/arena, etc., he tried to basically micromanage the football team and staff. So he pretty much ruined the product on the field, but made sure there always would be a product still. I still think he was a failure overall and the best day in a long time was him leaving, but it is mentioned quite a bit that Pitt would not be in the ACC without Pederson. And they definitely would not be if they were at Pitt Stadium and the Fitz Field House.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No stadium event is going to pass on Heinz for a 10-15K smaller and less well equipped venue 3 miles down the road with worse access and infrastructure. There just aren't that many stadium events in the first place compared to the substantially larger number of arena events.

It comes down to $$$$$. You think Taylor Swift cares about roads? Her fans would swim the Mon to get to Oakland if need be. If Pitt's stadium has cheaper rent and they feel that would help their bottom line than Heinz, they would book in Oakland.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Sigh. A new arena (the Pete) that is used 80-100 times a year is not a waste of money. A new football stadium that costs twice as much, uses twice as much land, and that is used less than 10 times a year

You're pretty hard-headed. You keep on comparing apples to watermelons.

Take out the women's games. They could play at Frick Middle School and not sell out, there are MAYBE 10 events per year that use the arena portion of the Pete. Maybe 10. More like 4 or 5. Lets not exxagerrate how much the Pete is used.

 

[Pghfan]

all joking aside, I would like to see the city do something with that ghetto down over the hill from Trees.. Basically, everything on the other side of Center Ave. A lot of land wasting away. Doubt the university could spread their footprint down there but damn if that isn't depressing area.. If you don't know what I am talking about, go up bigelow and make a right at the light to go the backway to Oakland. The left would take you down to the strip and polish hill. Make that right and you are about a 1/4 mile from Trees.. Nothing down there at all, empty homes and buildings..

 

[HailtoPitt]

You guys are hilarious in justifying the cost of building the Pete as necessary, and letting the success of men's basketball create some inconsistency in your arguments.

The Pete "was necessary for Pitt to get invited to the ACC"? Hardly. Please tell me how Pitt playing in the Consol or Civic Arena would have caused the ACC to say "let's ask Rutgers or WVU instead." Please.

Adding women's basketball and the workout facility to this argument as justifications for spending $160 million? Laughable.

If we are looking at this from a purely financial perspective (as is done for football), then partnering with the Penguins to provide a home for Pitt men's basketball in a professional arena would have been a huge money saver. It would have provided easier transportation and parking during games, another common point raised and a frequent complaint for basketball games now. The ACC would still have invited Pitt. The resulting money saved could have been used in other areas. The Pitt Stadium land could have been sold and generated, (according to CrazyPaco's original number of price per acre) over $150 million (today's dollars). That money, along with what Pitt spent on their Pete contribution, and donations, could have been used to establish a huge athletic endowment, build a new workout space for students, upgrade the interior of the Field House, and much more. Or, Pitt could have used that land for the much needed Track And Field facility while still having pro facilities for football and men's basketball.

Like I have been saying, the $160 million arena was built primarily for men's basketball.

It is certainly not apples to oranges. More like Granny Smith to Golden Delicious. You guys just don't want to admit it.

 

[NTOP]

You guys are hilarious in justifying the cost of building the Pete as necessary, and letting the success of men's basketball create some inconsistency in your arguments.

The Pete "was necessary for Pitt to get invited to the ACC"? Hardly. Please tell me how Pitt playing in the Consol or Civic Arena would have caused the ACC to say "let's ask Rutgers or WVU instead." Please.

Adding women's basketball and the workout facility to this argument as justifications for spending $160 million? Laughable.

If we are looking at this from a purely financial perspective (as is done for football), then partnering with the Penguins to provide a home for Pitt men's basketball in a professional arena would have been a huge money saver. It would have provided easier transportation and parking during games, another common point raised and a frequent complaint for basketball games now. The ACC would still have invited Pitt. The resulting money saved could have been used in other areas. The Pitt Stadium land could have been sold and generated, (according to CrazyPaco's original number of price per acre) over $150 million (today's dollars). That money, along with what Pitt spent on their Pete contribution, and donations, could have been used to establish a huge athletic endowment, build a new workout space for students, upgrade the interior of the Field House, and much more. Or, Pitt could have used that land for the much needed Track And Field facility while still having pro facilities for football and men's basketball.

Like I have been saying, the $160 million arena was built primarily for men's basketball.

It is certainly not apples to oranges. More like Granny Smith to Golden Delicious. You guys just don't want to admit it.

It DID NOT cost $160 million, and Pitt didn't pay for all of it. Stop lying to try to prove a really bad premise.

 

[HailtoPitt]

It DID NOT cost $160 million, and Pitt didn't pay for all of it. Stop lying to try to prove a really bad premise.

In today's dollars it did (which I have mentioned several times already). Back then it was $120 million. Pitt and the state (that's us) paid for the vast majority.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Dumb marches on...real dumb. Unbelievable dumb.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Dumb marches on...real dumb. Unbelievable dumb.

Feel free to elaborate.

 

[levance2]

If we are looking at this from a purely financial perspective (as is done for football), then partnering with the Penguins to provide a home for Pitt men's basketball in a professional arena would have been a huge money saver. It would have provided easier transportation and parking during games, another common point raised and a frequent complaint for basketball games now. The ACC would still have invited Pitt.

If Pitt had partnered with the Pens and had the support from the state to contribute funds as was done with Heinz or the Pete, then yes, I would be in favor. That did not happen though.

 

[HailtoPitt]

If Pitt had partnered with the Pens and had the support from the state to contribute funds as was done with Heinz or the Pete, then yes, I would be in favor. That did not happen though.

Hard to imagine the Pens not being overjoyed at Pitt helping them to secure funds for an eventual new arena.

 

[NTOP]

Hard to imagine the Pens not being overjoyed at Pitt helping them to secure funds for an eventual new arena.

We'd just be paying rent 20 times/year. In a mediocre venue for college hoops. They DO tarp that place for the City game. There'd be 174 live bodies for Morehead State.

 

[levance2]

Hard to imagine the Pens not being overjoyed at Pitt helping them to secure funds for an eventual new arena.

Well, you can imagine anything you want, but it didn't happen.

 

[ricflair4LIFE]

A relatively small South Hills S.D. can come up with $100 million but some people think a large wealthy university like Pitt cant come up with $300 million to buy up some land, knock down some buildings and build a stadium. Surely it can without any problem, its just a matter of if its worth it to them.

This thread will satisfy the weekly new stadium post quota.

Sounds like something a school in Texas would do.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

all I hear about is this pinch on universities and colleges, everyone crying about it. Yet I go to a lot of campuses and I swear, all I see is unbelievable, multi million dollar construction projects. Beautiful campuses putting up brand new dorms, brand new educational buildings.. Really tough to feel bad for higher learning in America when you see these campuses..

Usually funded via donations and corporate sponsors.
At least at my local university.
Same for Pitt's new s school of pharmacy building.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Dumb marches on...real dumb. Unbelievable dumb.

He doesn't stop.