"Players lose; Luther loses most"

[gary2]

Yeah Luther may be no better than a #2 big on a good ACC team and Ellison no better than a #8 or #9 on a good ACC team. But what are we trying to achieve with them in the next 1-2 years. I don’t think anyone’s thinking they’ll skyrocket us into the top third of the ACC. But, although we were 0-19, how large of an improvement does it take to put us into the middle pack of the ACC neighborhood?

I think we need to reduce turnovers and long scoring droughts and improve rebounding at both ends of the court. If we still have our core group of freshman (big if), they will show some natural improvement next year. A healthy Luther will help the rebounding some, hopefully Ellison can help reduce the long scoring droughts. Throw in a new coaching style and hopefully a coach that can bring in a couple guys that can help right away, particularly with the rebounding, maybe there’s enough improvement to have you competing in the middle of the ACC pack.

Anything higher than that will definitely be further down the road and require the larger uptick in talent.

Nice to read some actual discussion about the team and it's potential future.

 

[jaygeekray]

Before it is all said and done, the Pitt failed Stallings experiment will have disrupted well over a dozen college players' careers. For better or worse...
By sticking it out, Luther is one the players impacted the least.

 

[NCanton Panther]

Excellent post as always.

Agree, B_Man had always been one of the better posters on the board but had disappeared. Don’t know if you had retreated to the pay board B_Man and just recently started posting on the free board again. If so, please continue, always good to read your perspective.

 

[Jpripper88]

Yeah Luther may be no better than a #2 big on a good ACC team and Ellison no better than a #8 or #9 on a good ACC team. But what are we trying to achieve with them in the next 1-2 years. I don’t think anyone’s thinking they’ll skyrocket us into the top third of the ACC. But, although we were 0-19, how large of an improvement does it take to put us into the middle pack of the ACC neighborhood?

I think we need to reduce turnovers and long scoring droughts and improve rebounding at both ends of the court. If we still have our core group of freshman (big if), they will show some natural improvement next year. A healthy Luther will help the rebounding some, hopefully Ellison can help reduce the long scoring droughts. Throw in a new coaching style and hopefully a coach that can bring in a couple guys that can help right away, particularly with the rebounding, maybe there’s enough improvement to have you competing in the middle of the ACC pack.

Anything higher than that will definitely be further down the road and require the larger uptick in talent.

An enormous improvement.

 

[Jpripper88]

Luther and Ellison are the type of players that even as your #4 and 5 best players, you can be successful, but you need at least 1 or 2 really good players to lead the way. Without that we are still way, way behind the rest of the ACC. I don't see any scenario we are better than 10th next year and that would require a tremendous improvement and a lot of luck. Ceiling is probably more like 12-13 and 4 or 5 wins, even if the new coach brings in a ready made player and keeps everyone else of value on the roster.

 

[IamHeisenberg]

I don't follow this in close enough detail to know, but I thought his eligibility to play is not settled. Who actually applied for the medical hardship waiver? The team? The player? When does that occur? After the season when it is certain the player won't play?

So for Luther wasn't it supercritical for Stallings to remain so he could acquire that eligibility?

 

[Jpripper88]

I don't follow this in close enough detail to know, but I thought his eligibility to play is not settled. Who actually applied for the medical hardship waiver? The team? The player? When does that occur? After the season when it is certain the player won't play?

So for Luther wasn't it supercritical for Stallings to remain so he could acquire that eligibility?

Huh?

The school applies on behalf of the player. The coach has nothing to do with the appeal, besides saying, "Yeah, we'd like you to play for us another year." Stallings doesn't matter, at all. If Luther wants to stay at Pitt and the new coach wants him to stay, Pitt will apply. If he wants/has to go somewhere else, the new school will apply on his behalf.

 

[IamHeisenberg]

Huh?

The school applies on behalf of the player. The coach has nothing to do with the appeal, besides saying, "Yeah, we'd like you to play for us another year." Stallings doesn't matter, at all. If Luther wants to stay at Pitt and the new coach wants him to stay, Pitt will apply. If he wants/has to go somewhere else, the new school will apply on his behalf.

Can't see a new school wanting to do that for an oft injured player.

 

[RA time]

If he leaves he will have his choice of top programs chasing him. He is a good player that would help any team. Very efficient player that makes winning players.

 

[Jpripper88]

Can't see a new school wanting to do that for an oft injured player.

But then they wouldn't offer him a scholarship. That is a separate issue. There is no doubt Luther would get scholarships and schools would absolutely do that on his behalf. It isn't a hard process.

 

[NCanton Panther]

An enormous improvement.

I don’t know, I think you just need some things to fall the right way in terms of player improvement and 1-2 good additions to get into middle of the pack consideration. As Pitt fans, we can only hope that’s the case.

 

[Johnny07]

My bigger point is that even though I don't disagree with Luther making the statement, it is pointless unless he is looking for the current coaching staff to help him find a new home. This big push to show that the coaches were "liked" amongst the players and maybe somehow that can help Stallings' attorneys in negotiating his buyout, is just late in the game banter.

Luther made an assumption that those making the decision are somehow disconnected from the team and are "influenced by the wrong things". The fact of the matter is that he didn't know how connected the decision makers were and what drove the decision. Lets say for example that there were players missing practices, late for practices, late for team meetings, late for film reviews, missing or late for drug testing, not passing drug tests - repeated offenses etc...., and there were no suspensions or standard procedure punishments given...., these things can work there way to administration, AD and staff. If the AD sees that players continue with a business as usual presence on game days (still starting, no reduced minutes etc.) then these are improprieties that can damage the programs reputation. The culture becomes that coaches tolerate these improprieties.

A new potential coach looking at our season and our record and the lack of development amongst the freshmen, may take Luthers statement and turn it into an overall view that this is the culture of the Pitt basketball program. Players are happy if they are treated well. Being treated well means sticking up for them. Sticking up for them means that they turn a blinds eye to the improprieties. A new potential coach will look at the caliber of players on this team and could draw the following conclusion; Players of our caliber, would not have the opportunity to play in any high major program any other place, therefore they are upset to see the coaching staff go because with them they are getting much more than they deserve.

 

[upj87]

There are a few players that stand to lose a lot by the firing of Stallings. First and foremost is Luther. Luther is a Pittsburgher. It's a crap shoot that if he decided to stay, he would get the same roll out the red carpet treatment that he got under Stallings. Also, with his injury and the familiarity that the current staff has with it, he would lose that to a different trainer if a new coach brings in his own. That's the skinny of it.

More to the semantics; Luther has been very comfortable, almost too comfortable in his environment. There's something to say good for a home towner that stays to play in his hometown but there's something to say for the overstating of his performance because he's one of our own. How does that play into the perception amongst his teammates? Preferable treatment from coaches, comfortable that he is close to his support system should he get injured, able to have his mom bring him a home cooked meal or soup when he's sick, his minimal bonding with teammates because during his off time he goes out with his local friends instead of his teammates, etc?..., all play into an opinion with his teammates. I've heard a lot of this from my daughter and her group of friends.

IMO players didn't seem to treat him like he was the "best" player during game time. Of course they knew that when they were interviewed they had to refer to Luther as their "best" player. To be in the good graces of the coaches, it was almost a necessity that teammates overstate Luthers absence. Instead of players being able to (especially freshmen) form their own opinions, I can see manipulation. Suppress your feelings of how good you think he really is.

Possibly the coaches felt the pressure from the local media, the community and the presence of local support (whether donors, season ticket holders or just friends of the Luther family) and conveniently attached their wagon to him. Would a new coach come in and say since he is the local boy, the most senior player, the mainstay, we need to build the new team around him? Most likely not! So the writing would be on the wall that he would have to transfer out.

So when I look at his statement and his taking a shot at the AD, I see that very comfortable player. Comfort created by the coaching staff and circumstances on one hand and comfort created by his own decisions on the other. Understandably he's mad but as someone who has had the luxury of having to face little to no adversity (comparably) it's time for him to "man up" and see the failure of his coaches. I suspect It would be good for his growth and maturity as a 22 or 23 year old youngman.

All considered, one could say that his out spoken statement might be more self serving than anything.

IMO I have a very hard time thinking that he spoke for every single player on that team like he starts out by saying.

to paraphrase a Pitt slogan from a happier time..."He all we got"

 

[levance2]

Winning games is not “the wrong things.” His recruiting sucked and he went 0-19. Time for change, whether Ryan agrees or not.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

The players often want to keep the current coach or his top assistant. It shouldn't be surprising, they often have a very close relationship from working together for so many hours. That was true with Dixon, and they were right. That was true with Brandin Knight and Stallings, and they were wrong.

That was true with Wanny and that one depends who you ask...

 

[So Much to Say]

Just as confusing as the Ellison love is the enthusiasm for K Davis. I don't want to bash the kid but he played 20+ minutes per game and averaged ~ 2pts/game in the conference season. I literally have never seen a guard more invisible on the offensive side. I get that he's got decent size and athletic ability but he will be a 21 year old sophomore before the conference schedule gets underway. I genuinely hope a new coach can do better. Good kid, good luck!