How do you know that Pitt has not already changed its substance policy? Either way, it would not have impacted what Pitt had to do with respect to the kids suspended this season. Pitt already subsidizes its athletics program with 8+ million a year from the general education budget. Where is the additional money to come from? Amazon is a publicly traded for profit enterprise, Pitt is a not-for-profit educational institution [with horrible state support and high tuition]. If you do not understand the difference, then you likely were not smart enough to be admitted, let alone graduate from Pitt. Since you seem kind of simple, think of it this way. Pitt is like a Honda Civic, that is in a race with some cars that totally out perform it in every category you want to measure [price, engine size, performance, high priced drivers]. It may not be fair, but life generally is not. Hail to Pitt!
Price of success / Fan support
- Thread starter Fsgolfdr
- Start date
How do you know that Pitt has not already changed its substance policy? Either way, it would not have impacted what Pitt had to do with respect to the kids suspended this season. Pitt already subsidizes its athletics program with 8+ million a year from the general education budget. Where is the additional money to come from? Amazon is a publicly traded for profit enterprise, Pitt is a not-for-profit educational institution [with horrible state support and high tuition]. If you do not understand the difference, then you likely were not smart enough to be admitted, let alone graduate from Pitt. Since you seem kind of simple, think of it this way. Pitt is like a Honda Civic, that is in a race with some cars that totally out perform it in every category you want to measure [price, engine size, performance, high priced drivers]. It may not be fair, but life generally is not. Hail to Pitt!
Not so quick! LOL!
BUSINESS
Amazon: Nearly 20 Years In Business And It Still Doesn't Make Money, But Investors Don't Seem To Care
Kinda sounds like PITT admin. and sports mgmt. doesn't it!
Nice way to deal with fellow PITT fans what a pack of losers! No wonder people don't come to PITT games!
You're so quick to provide answers to poster questions. I asked are umbrellas allowed in Heinz in a previous thread? You replied NO they were outlawed back in the days of PITT stadium.
This shows how credible your answers actually are?
Well umbrellas are allowed in Heinz. It actually states this in the booklet distributed with the season tickets and three security people ++ a supervisor confirmed this. They cant be deployed in the seating bowl but many people on the way out had their umbrella's deployed in the "rotunda's" and on the "walkways" down from upper levels out of the stadium.
I expect some "snarky" "nasty" comments which is always entertaining and shows the true character of many long term PITT fans and posters!
No wonder new people to PITT don't want any part of the fanbase!
PittLaw your the perfect fan , expensive seats nice donations and your truly loyal to your alma mater . I really don't think it matters to you if they go 12-0 , 8-4,1-11 you'll be in your seats rooting for your Pitt Panthers . Your enjoyment comes from just being there and that's great for you . Others like myself want to see a winner playing exciting ball in front of a packed house with an electric environment . Call me selfish , I want entertained .
Your right , it would be noticed if your support ended because it would cost the athletic department money , that's all they want from their fans anyway . Attendance at both FB and Bb games suffer when the teams don't perform . Put several lack luster season together even long term STH find other outlets for their entertainment dollars .That effects revenue . The geniuses at Pitt who are making hundreds of thousand of dollars think changing the uniforms , the songs sung at games , redesigning the logo on the bb court will somehow generate more interest in their programs . I'll give you the anwser to all their problems .... How about trying to win more games , that will do it . Pay up , hire the coaches that have won at the level your playing and hire recruiters that have a history of signing top talent . Sure it cost cash , but consider it an investment because winning pays for itself at Pitts level .
Yep. Pretty easy. Just win more!
Buck up the cash you have to pull in sabban until you realize that a bama donor will match anything Pitt can offer. You do know in order to get sabban there the donors stepped up and are paying for his mortgage on top of his ridiculous salary. That's how you build winning programs. But you'll obviously never get it. To get what you want without making any effort become a psu fan. Their fans and donors don't waiver.
Btw speaking of psu. Since 2000 they have won 133 games. We have won 123. Yet they continually have 90k plus show up, make a massive amount of money in donations and ticket sales. And went through one of the worst scandals in history.
All for a little over a half a win per season over almost 2 decades.
That is support.
We had a fantastic run over 15 years in bb and one bad season and everyone jumps ship.
Wow.
All for a little over a half a win per season over almost 2 decades.
That is support.
We had a fantastic run over 15 years in bb and one bad season and everyone jumps ship.
Wow.
Saban get real .
Hiring coordinators w/o HC exp is a lot cheaper than hiring a guy who actually has HC exp at your level .
Pitt couldn't even attract anyone of note when Ben Howland left and got lucky that JD turned out to be the best hire they could've ever made .
Pitts bb talked to Andy Enfield ,but sign KS who was about to be fired , think money played any factor in that hire .
Face it , Pitt is what it is , a university that has no desire to compete at a consistent top 20/25 program .
You insulted me first and I am the simple one? You moved the goal post, you asked for one example, I gave you one. You then try misdirecting the argument to state" how do I know they are not trying to change the policy" and for me to give another example, yet I am the simple one? It doesn't matter if they are in the process of changing that policy or not, Pitt already had it and acted on it so there is the one example you asked for. Is that simple enough for you?
I do understand the difference between for profit and not for profit, but all you ever hear is how college football is big business. So I used Amazon since they make butt loads of money as revenue, but instead of taking that money as income they use it to invest in the business for future income. Again it is an analogy, while not a prefect reflection of reality, it is used as a tool to simplify a topic. You yourself used an analogy of a Honda Civic. Good. I am glad you did. There is enough ACC money for Pitt to be a brand new Ford Explorer, yet we are a 6 year old Honda Civic going into other with a 12 year old PT Cruiser.
Then you have the audacity to question my intelligence. First of all, yes I was accepted to Pitt. Second, no I did not go to Pitt ( I am not a big campus type of person and there is nothing wing with that perspective as it is personal preference) yet I still chose the Panthers as my college team and I used to support it with donations on top of tickets I bought. Being that I am not an alumni but still donated should tell you how much I love Pitt. I would gladly support Pitt again with donations and I am very close to pulling that trigger as I think Pitt is heading in the right direction. But previous administations pissed off people and those people are not going to hand over money for the hell of it. They need to be won back. That is reality.
It has the desire. It is extremely difficult with the roadblocks in place. Small alumni base, pro city, poor fans.
And again jumbo Fisher and dabo were coordinators w/o head coaching experience. How has that played out. No one has answered.
***
Well if you want to carry around an umbrella you cannot deploy/use--I guess so. LOL Getting enough emails and communication from Pitt yet? I received three today alone. Hail to Pitt!
Well you have it partially right. Be certain, there are only a handful of people that would like to see a packed house and Pitt to win every game, more than me. The difference is, rather than piss and moan, I actually attempt to assist Pitt get there. That said, I'm living in reality...and pretty much know where the Panthers are going to be at the end of the season, unless and until more fans step up...or we catch lightning in a bottle and get lucky. As for money, it is what generally makes the world tick...so those with it enjoy, and those without it, struggle to get it. So is the current football staff the answer, or not? Hail to Pitt!
Psu hockey. You know how that came about and won so quickly? A Donor! Not the school digging into its pockets.
Pitt fans would never show up because they didn't win right away and the school didn't bankrupt itself to put up a winner to "build good will".
Pitt fans would never show up because they didn't win right away and the school didn't bankrupt itself to put up a winner to "build good will".
Sadly you are dead wrong. There is not enough ACC money for Pitt's athletic department to be self-sustaining, let alone profitable. I get the anger at prior administrations [I had plenty of it myself]....nobody hated Steve Pederson more than me. But yet, I continued to support the program despite his presence and damaging decisions. It is going to take the new folks a little time to right the ship. I think football is going in the right direction. Pitt is way behind in athletic fundraising...both on an annual basis and for endowment. Compare Pitt to its ACC competition...and you will see that a Honda Civic is pretty generous analogy compared to the equipment being driven by UNC, Clemson, Louisville, FLState, Boston College, etc. This is going to be a tough season, regardless of desire to win. Hail to Pitt!
From where I stand as an alum, it is frustrating that the school doesn't manage sports well. I'm old enough to recall the early 80s and they allowed that great football program to go bad, then seemed to repeat it with basketball the past year. That doesn't inspire many alum to want to donate, either. Students who were in school when the teams are really good, have positive feelings that motivate them to give later. Students at Pitt when the teams aren't good, which is probably many of us, really ... don't have any strong feelings to buy tickets and donate once they begin working. And eventually older fans and alumni get tired of coming up short every year.
It's pathetic how easily Pitt fans quit on the programs and how long they hold a grudge. Can't get out of our own way.
There's two things that stand out to me regarding the staff :
1.) unless the quality of the recruits improves it hard for me to imagine Pitt ever being a top team in the ACC .
At this point in time I think two more classes should tell the tale whether PN and staff can recruit
effectively .
2.) Pitt was carried by the offense of OC Matt Canada last season and he's gone .The defensive backfield
absolutely killed Pitt last season and a defensive minded HC never changed the scheme to protect them.
Very troubling .
If I was the AD I'd give PN & Co. two more yrs and then evaluate where the programs at . The Bb program is a lot more troubling and a major investment might be needed . No way Pitt can make major changes to both programs at the same time .
90k what ? From a program where good seats were very difficult to get to a partially filled Pete except for a few games per yr .
Thought you meant psu.
Proves my point though. Pitt fans started to walk away from one of the most successful times in our mbb history even before last year. Other programs would have killed for what we had. Instead we bitched that he didn't win enough.
No wonder he wanted a fresh start.
Reasonable response. I too have my questions about the staff--as they have won nothing yet [have not even returned to where the Wannstedt high water mark was]. However, with the prior missteps with hiring and firing, the football program needs stability to a point where I think you have to give Narduzzi a little more leeway than you might otherwise give. As for Canada, he caught the proverbial lightning in a bottle with his one year at Pitt...and parlayed it into a major money contract. Nothing in his past would have suggested he would be that great at Pitt. I think Canada is a solid coach, with a system that was perfect for the talent he had on hand at Pitt. Will be interesting to see what he does with thoroughbred recruits he has in his new home. The results and development of the team in 2017 will be critical to Narduzzi's contract extension, if any in 2017. I'll be on hand cheering the coaches and team on, regardless. It is what Pitt fans do. Hail to Pitt!
PittLaw good for you that you continued to support Pitt, but you do realize most people do not act that way? If people get turned off that leave and either don't come back or they wait to they see enough possible changes to warrant coming back. You may call this bandwagon jumping, but that is reality of how most people act. I understand that the athletic department is a financial loser. With that said, knowing the money was in football I would cripple all other sports financially for football success, and then correct those other sports.
No doubt people have followed that path. But when you walk away, you give up your vote and voice at the table. Interesting plan, but not sure it is legally possible? With Title IX requirements, as well as money that has strings attached from private interests to certain non-football sports, what you suggest is likely not possible. Moreover, even if it was, it is not clear to me that it would be enough to put Pitt in the upper echelons of ACC competitors. Hail to Pitt!
More than Football --- I think what has HURT PITT really badly was how Jamie Dixon and the Basketball program just floundered into total mediocrity since becoming an ACC member.
Pitt basketball -- for that one decade or so stretch -- was absolutely fantastic.
If Jamie Dixon had found his second-wind after joining the ACC and kept Pitt a really-solid top 25 program, it would have helped Pitt Sports tremendously. It also would have brought so much positive attention to Pitt.
But Dixon's demise and the crumbling of the basketball program in the ACC coincided just with Pitt's coaching garbage (aka Coaching Carousel) then Paul Chryst being horribly 'Blah' at Pitt.
Now it's up to Pitt Football to Raise the Bar because Pitt Basketball has some serious work to do.
Paying Pat Narduzzi serious $$$ will wake-up Pitt fans and the Region (Ohio / Virginia / Jersey / D.C. / + get National Media notice / not just Western PA).
And you know what Big-Time programs do?? If the Coach isn't performing they "move-on" from the underperforming coach and sign someone else.
Hail To Pitt!
Pitt basketball -- for that one decade or so stretch -- was absolutely fantastic.
If Jamie Dixon had found his second-wind after joining the ACC and kept Pitt a really-solid top 25 program, it would have helped Pitt Sports tremendously. It also would have brought so much positive attention to Pitt.
But Dixon's demise and the crumbling of the basketball program in the ACC coincided just with Pitt's coaching garbage (aka Coaching Carousel) then Paul Chryst being horribly 'Blah' at Pitt.
Now it's up to Pitt Football to Raise the Bar because Pitt Basketball has some serious work to do.
Paying Pat Narduzzi serious $$$ will wake-up Pitt fans and the Region (Ohio / Virginia / Jersey / D.C. / + get National Media notice / not just Western PA).
And you know what Big-Time programs do?? If the Coach isn't performing they "move-on" from the underperforming coach and sign someone else.
Hail To Pitt!
Last edited:
I think we all understand the financial picture. I think, however, what Pitt has chosen to ignore is that they have taken over the years a serious of actions that were'nt finance related which have seriously damaged athletics, and FB , in particular, and these actions have destroyed their credibility with athletics donors who now simply don't trust that Pitt is committed to athletics or is capable of competently managing athletics. Historical examples: heavy handed management of Jackie Sherrill; requirement of academic standards above NCAA minimums; requiring cas students to take a language; dismissal of Mike Gottfried and replacing him with Hackett; extending Dixon's contract to what amounted to a lifetime contract during the nadir of his program; hapless, poorly run coaching searches that caused the Heyward/Graham/Chryst coaching merry go round, the rehiring of Pedersen after he was axed at Nebraska, the extension of Peddrsen's contract after his role in the foregoing coachin merry go round, the Dixon/ Stallings affair. These are just the examples that readily come to mind and I'm sure I could think of others.
You may say that most of the examples are dated and therefore irrelevant. However, people have long memories and associate all these poor decisions negatively impacting Pitt athletics with Pitt generally and not any one regime. I also note that Gallagher oversaw the whole Dixon/Stallings debacle so you can't simply dismiss that mess because Lyke wasn't AD at the time- the CEO of the university had to have been kept informed of that entire situation and must have signed off on several key decisions which arose during that hiring process.
Quite frankly I think Pitt has a "cultural" issue which impedes athletics excellence that goes beyond the position of any AD or chancellor on athletics but it's up to the chancellor and AD to fix that problem. In my view, except for the period between 75-81, the political forces at Pitt have never been uniformly aligned supporting athletics. That's what's needed and is exactly what you see st universities to excel in athletics long term.
The ball's on Lyke's and Gallagher's court but they have an uphill struggle of demonstrating their credibility on athletics because of the actions of their predecessors and the seeming cultural issue at Pitt on athletics. While I have never fallen off the bandwagon supporting Pitt athletics throughout this roller coaster ride, the next misstep will be the last one for me. Too much is too much and Pitt has brought this on themselves.
Crumbled=making the post-season during the 3 years Dixon coached in the ACC, two of which were NCAA appearances and no worse than an 8-10 ACC season? That's crumbled? Does anyone ever watch any basketball at programs outside of Pittsburgh or the top handful of blue bloods to realize how difficult it is to maintain a top 25 status and how cycles are natural even in top programs? Now the program is absolutely destroyed because of idiot boosters and an even stupider athletic director didn't have the patience to let a proven and nationally respected coach pull a still competitive program out of a lull and back to a perennial 25 status. It will take a long time to get back to the "crumbled" level. Stupid fans get what they deserve.
Narduzzi is getting what is warranted at this point. It is dumb to pay more than what is needed to retain him, especially for the lowest revenue producing program in the Power 5.
Last edited:
No doubt those looking for an excuse not to give point to the long history of mistakes that you list. I do not dispute the terrible mismanagement of the athletic program over the years. However, if there is any path to get back to being relevant, it is going to necessitate all Pitt fans [and many new ones] to get on board now. Waiting for some undefined sign from above that the coast is clear and that all excuses and sins of the past are wiped away--is a sure recipe for failure. No doubt Lyke and Gallagher have a really tough road. I am not quite ready to damn them and the program I love to hell...so I will do what I can to assist. Hail to Pitt!
I highly disagree --- because fans want MORE and don't want to settle what is nothing better than mediocrity.
Pitt Basketball in Dixon's last year, with the character of the guys coming back, was not inspiring anyone. Recruiting was incredibly weak --- I see nothing about the incoming recruits and players on the roster not-named "Young / Artis" who could possibly make you believe, Pitt was about to enter this cyclic "upswing".
It is simple. People either care about Pitt or they don't. Your heart is where your treasure is and one's check book register tells all.
Look at who was on the basketball roster after Artis and Young -- and what recruits were coming in.
Look at how well the recruiting class (held together by Stallings) looked at Pitt now.
---> How about pointing the finger at the RIGHT PLACE, the man who handled the hire of the new coach.
People were shocked and apalled by the hiring.
"The Previous AD" was boo'ed at his Press conference, and openly ridiculed by the Media for that.
Some people will come back; others will require more proof from Pitt....simple as that. Most people don't like being associated with losing propositions when you are asking them to dig into their wallet.
If you think it was a good idea to make a change at the head coaching position, then I have nothing further to discuss with you, or people that think like you, on this topic.
I actually think that Del the panther is who nailed it. His post was pretty devastating.
What he did not include was a fair and balanced chronicle of the success. He should have made reference to the significant success of the basketball team in the past decade. So that was a bit of a miss. But other than that he really couldn't have balanced his chronicle with any meaningful football success. And in Pittsburgh that's what more alumni are apt to recall as they graduate year after year (when allegiance to Pitt takes place).
When I graduated, 1991,I had a couple nice years of football to recall early, but some ugly ones too, and no significant success. I still got tickets thereafter and have made some donations too, but only fit in attendance to games when convenient (because they really haven't been that great).
I can only imagine the attitudes of those from the late 90s! I bet there's s real gap there. And the years since then featured some memorable players but mostly seasons of no significance, but a lot of ugliness with coaches and such. The failure to maintain basketball success sort of provides a book end to the failure to maintain football in 1982. No wonder that a couple of generations have emerged now with no strong memories to coerce them to give much.
What he did not include was a fair and balanced chronicle of the success. He should have made reference to the significant success of the basketball team in the past decade. So that was a bit of a miss. But other than that he really couldn't have balanced his chronicle with any meaningful football success. And in Pittsburgh that's what more alumni are apt to recall as they graduate year after year (when allegiance to Pitt takes place).
When I graduated, 1991,I had a couple nice years of football to recall early, but some ugly ones too, and no significant success. I still got tickets thereafter and have made some donations too, but only fit in attendance to games when convenient (because they really haven't been that great).
I can only imagine the attitudes of those from the late 90s! I bet there's s real gap there. And the years since then featured some memorable players but mostly seasons of no significance, but a lot of ugliness with coaches and such. The failure to maintain basketball success sort of provides a book end to the failure to maintain football in 1982. No wonder that a couple of generations have emerged now with no strong memories to coerce them to give much.
So basically Pitt has to be Bama in FB year after year and Duke in BB year after year for people to remotely care. Good luck.
They don't have to hire coaches of Saban's pedigree but you don't hire MI ST DC or wisconsin's OC, for the record that mi st DC might work out, YOU go out and hire a proven HC from a FBS team thats not in a power 5 conference. See VT's coach. You don't hire a retread from Vanderbilt that has never had much success. You hire a proven HC from a program like xavier or Dayton. Thing is those coaches don't come cheap and you have to step up and pay them. Pitt has done that exactly one time in the recent past Todd Graham and that was when they were publicly embarrassed when the cheap coach they hired choked out his babys momma. If you hire a couple of guys that have had great success in CUSA or the MAC it won't take long to get a good one. Then you keep him to the best of your ability. You don't lose your OC in consecutive years because they got more money elsewhere. I know that the apologist line is this is new leadership, well that makes it easy since Pitt changes AD's every other year!
I hate to break it to you, but those types of coaches more than likely will wait for a better job than Pitt.
First PSU has a much larger alumni base. So even if %20 of them show up and support their team they are going to have twice as many fans as pitt. Also before last season PSU's attendance numbers were dropping and had they continued to struggle for another 5 years it would have looked even worse.
Second pretty much all the BB fans were very angry about the stallings hire. So when he went out and had a disaster of a season they became even angrier and left.
It all goes back to what I said at the beginning of the thread. LIKE IT OR NOT, PITT IS GOING TO HAVE TO WIN TO GET FAN SUPPORT. Its not going to be the other way, if they don't win first there is never going to be a big uptick in donations or attendance. Its just not going to happen. Its up to the admin to decide if they want to invest the money for a chance at a return. Right now the approach seems to be to hire a cheaper candidate and hope they end up finding a diamond in the rough. If they do then they will try to keep them around, thats what happened with JD. Hopefully PN is the answer for FB. If not they will likely continue the process.
I said nothing of the kind. The topic appeared to be, why do not enough Pitt alumni feel enough love for Pitt sports to donate lots of money? This is my take on the answer. Because there haven't been enough who experienced success while students to feel enough warmth to donate. I'm from tOSU country and in comparison, their grads have enjoyed many years of such success... certainly not every year, but enough. And thus they donate .
Last edited:
