Not sure if you will read this because I may be on your ignore list (that is incredibly weak of you, at no point did I call you a names or throw threats), but I will respond anyhow. You are more than a fan when you attend a university. This is not a pro sports team where you are just a fan. All Pitt grads are ambassadors of the University of Pittsburgh. Upon entering a School, Business, Religion, Etc. people become ambassadors of that organization. That is how life works.
Price of success / Fan support
- Thread starter Fsgolfdr
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Not sure if you will read this because I may be on your ignore list (that is incredibly weak of you, at no point did I call you a names or throw threats), but I will respond anyhow. You are more than a fan when you attend a university. This is not a pro sports team where you are just a fan. All Pitt grads are ambassadors of the University of Pittsburgh. Upon entering a School, Business, Religion, Etc. people become ambassadors of that organization. That is how life works.
CP does not need me to intercede here, but I will. CP may be one of the finest ambassadors Pitt has ever had. It takes all kinds and everyone has different personalities and styles. Don't like CP's style, then choose someone that fits your style. Fact is, CP only states the cold hard facts, which some people do not like to hear. Hope you will start helping the kids soon and you start donating again. Hail to Pitt!
I probably do need you to intercede because you are clearly replying to someone on my ignore list. But then, I don't care what people on that list think or have to say with regards to this topic.
But so there is no misunderstanding for anyone that may read my posts, I haven't been an "ambassador" for Pitt in any formal capacity, which was previously the non-athletic volunteer sort, in well over a decade. I clearly don't represent the university or athletics position or thinking on many issues, and therefore, I will flat out call it like I see it. I will state facts and/or my opinion on subjects as much as I feel inclined to do so and as much as Chris Peak permits. The ignore feature is very useful and saves me much consternation and really is the only thing that makes this board tolerable. I don't find it fruitful to unceasingly bang my head against the wall with certain individuals that have thought processes diametrical opposed to either my own way of thinking or actual reality. I highly recommend it.
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I mean misappropriating in the sense, not that they illegally misappropriate, but that their funding is spent in ways, which are far away from their stated purpose and in irresponsible manners. The Red Cross is a fabulous example of that IMO.
"Some of their moves"? I'd say it is much closer to "almost all of their moves" as it relates to the AD. Also, I would say the hiring of Mike Haywood and staff was as close as you can possibly get to a smoking gun of a University intentionally deemphasizing athletics. We know for sure it happened in the 80s and 90s.
I think it is amazing at the lengths some go to support Pitt athletics despite the fact Pitt doesn't make their athletics or their athletic supporters a priority. We can go back and forth about chicken and egg forever. I'd agree with many that Pitt intentionally killed a couple generations of fans in the 80s and 90s. They will pay for that dearly, for a long time. For most people they are only going to support something they believe in and when they see progress. In Pitt's case, it is hard to say we have seen that on a consistent enough basis to drive those casual fans to become donors. Pitt has a long haul back.
I don't need someone to show me the way. I need some one to show me results. You declare that CP only states cold hard facts. Ok I presented them too, as the cluster F**k of 7 years ago. You guys fail to accept that fact as a reason for people being pissed and changing their priorities to not support Pitt Athletics after that. You call it an excuse instead of a legitimate factual reason to say "I don't support this nonsense." It is you and him that don't like to hear the reality that Pitt screwed up and people walked away. That is how it works in the real world. Screw up enough times or a big enough screw up, people walk. Let's make a deal. None of us will change our minds, and we are in no position to solve anything so let's agree to disagree and move on. Tomorrow is Pitt vs PSU, let's root for a Panther win.
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It is up to your own opinion to determine whether all of their moves where fubar. But your interpretation of the motives behind the moves, as stated for the Haywood hire, is fallacious and absolutely untrue. And where there are flat out falsehoods is usually where I have issues.
You analogy continues to be misguided. Why don't you provide an example where donor revenue was misappropriated or spent irresponsibly, since I mentioned before, all general donations go into the annual scholarship fund and most others are earmarked for endowed funds or facility renovations and the like. Is it something like Pederson's salary that gives you issue? That didn't come from donor funds. That may be legitimate gripe even considering the market rate for such tenured administrators...and I think it absolutely is a legitimate complaint... although it was small beans compared to the overall budget, it came from separate unrestricted operational revenue and, most importantly, that administration is gone.
Yeah, this is general commentary and you are trying to use the legal definition of misappropriation, but I said it was more general in terms of not using money (however it is funded) responsibly and in a fan's eyes that is probably about spending it trying to win games and for most fans that is for football and men's basketball. Hiring Mike Haywood and staff was a clear sign Pitt was not committing to winning football games. Pitt did not care and, to me, as a fan, that makes it hard for the fans to care. I'd say the same was true in Jamie Dixon's departure and Kevin Stallings hire. The same would apply for Scott Barnes, seeing as he tried to leave town as soon as he got there.
Obviously I will be cheering for a Panther victory tomorrow. In fact, I'm driving to State College in about two hours. Obviously you are entitled to believe what you want, and hold a grudge for 7+ years....but if you were actually a huge Pitt football fan, you would be donating to support the kids--and that is not my opinion, that is a fact! Hail to Pitt!
Again repeating fallacious and false interpretations as fact.
But also telling is your realization that most fans who drop support for the reasons you cited are mostly interesting in being able to associate themselves vicariously with high profile wins. That goes back to my original post.
But if you want to redefine loaded vocabulary to defend false narratives or reasons to drop support, I guess I'm done here.
Pitt has done pretty well when the administration and fans work for the common goal together. 1975-82 in football and 2001-2011 in basketball. Unfortunately, implosion inevitably occurs from one end or both sides.
Find a way to start funneling money and other incentives to the families of recruits/players. Players need access to spending cash, nice cars for nights out on the town, VIP access to local clubs, establishments, and access to all the big events the city has to offer. Some of them also need help in the classroom and help getting good employment if things don't work out at the next level. Build relationships in the community. Strengthen the family & hire administrators that are very skilled in working with the NCAA.
As for allocation of resources, do whatever is necessary to make the football recruiting budget on par with other elite programs
The Hackett & Haywood hires were the only ones that were a total disgrace (Todd Graham too, in that he was a bad fit that never really wanted to be here) We aren't giving our coaches a real chance to be successful.
As for allocation of resources, do whatever is necessary to make the football recruiting budget on par with other elite programs
The Hackett & Haywood hires were the only ones that were a total disgrace (Todd Graham too, in that he was a bad fit that never really wanted to be here) We aren't giving our coaches a real chance to be successful.
Find a way to start funneling money and other incentives to the families of recruits/players. Players need access to spending cash, nice cars for nights out on the town, VIP access to local clubs, establishments, and access to all the big events the city has to offer. Some of them also need help in the classroom and help getting good employment if things don't work out at the next level. Build relationships in the community. Strengthen the family & hire administrators that are very skilled in working with the NCAA.
As for allocation of resources, do whatever is necessary to make the football recruiting budget on par with other elite programs
The Hackett & Haywood hires were the only ones that were a total disgrace (Todd Graham too, in that he was a bad fit that never really wanted to be here) We aren't giving our coaches a real chance to be successful.
As for allocation of resources, do whatever is necessary to make the football recruiting budget on par with other elite programs
The Hackett & Haywood hires were the only ones that were a total disgrace (Todd Graham too, in that he was a bad fit that never really wanted to be here) We aren't giving our coaches a real chance to be successful.
i tried letting bygones be bygones but there are you talking about a fact that is still your opinion and not a fact. Oh it is for the kids, these are 18-24 young adults, not 6-13 year old's. Then on top[ of that you put words in my mouth that I am holding some kind of grudge over sports? This is entertainment for me not life and death I hold no grudge. I am just not going to financially support more than tickets prices to games until I see commitment to excellence.
Jprip,
I know I am on ignore by CP because on 1 issue we disagree and he is too soft to deal with opposing opinion on a message board. So Jprip he wants a specific example of irresponsible funds spending alluding to donations because he has to frame a question so specific to fit his narrative. If general spending matters to him which it should be since Pitt is not operating in a vacuum, how about Steve P. He was extremely unpopular for putting bball in front of fball, he failed at his Nebraska, so in pure genius; Pitt brought him back as an AD knowing how polarizing he already was to a great majority of the fan base. Then to add insult to injury, 3 years after the Wanny Fiasco they gave the ass clown a 5 year extension at over $500,000? Now I will admit I do not know this answer to this question, but is Pitt still paying on that or was it paid in lump sum? That is irresponsible use of funds, but CP will either ignore it or make it sound like it doesn't answer his question, or most likely state "they made a bad decision, but it was not irresponsible."
I know I am on ignore by CP because on 1 issue we disagree and he is too soft to deal with opposing opinion on a message board. So Jprip he wants a specific example of irresponsible funds spending alluding to donations because he has to frame a question so specific to fit his narrative. If general spending matters to him which it should be since Pitt is not operating in a vacuum, how about Steve P. He was extremely unpopular for putting bball in front of fball, he failed at his Nebraska, so in pure genius; Pitt brought him back as an AD knowing how polarizing he already was to a great majority of the fan base. Then to add insult to injury, 3 years after the Wanny Fiasco they gave the ass clown a 5 year extension at over $500,000? Now I will admit I do not know this answer to this question, but is Pitt still paying on that or was it paid in lump sum? That is irresponsible use of funds, but CP will either ignore it or make it sound like it doesn't answer his question, or most likely state "they made a bad decision, but it was not irresponsible."
You can call yourself a fan if you want, but in your heart, you know you are just attending a game and are no fan of Pitt. By the way, you must be sitting in some pretty crappy seats if you are not contributing any money--which of course is your right to do. Enjoy the season...I plan to do so. Hail to Pitt!
His answer would be that the money paid to the AD was not from donor funds. I believe nearly everyone agrees that bringing the AD back was a horrible move, and giving him a raise was outrageous and insulting. That said, it had nothing to do with donations to athletics. There is a new AD and a new Chancellor now....so it is a historical discussion. Hail to Pitt!
That is okay. Reasonable people can disagree. Be certain, I want what is best for Pitt and for Pitt athletics. My strong opinion is that both Pitt and Pitt athletics can be better with more private support. Consequently, I will do everything in my power to assist that effort/goal. I argue for a living...so I rarely take it personally like many here. Hail to Pitt!
Oh my. The original point was, when people donate, they want to do so to organizations they believe are competent and going to use the money wisely. Whether "legal" activity or not.
The myriad of missteps from these many years that were documented in posts above actually aren't going to be uncommon among any sports organizations. At all schools, coaches are not going to work out sometimes; players will get in trouble sometimes; even a Michigan will lose to Appalachian State occasionally; etc. But if these bad things overwhelm the successes, as they've done at Pitt, many people will feel that their donations are good money chasing bad. And tend not to donate (at least not much). People donate to feel good, and to believe they are doing good. Pitt sports really haven't given reasons to feel those things.
Pitt employees here, or whatever they are, seem to be taking this personally, but it's not unique to Pitt. It's how donors would be for anything, everywhere.
The myriad of missteps from these many years that were documented in posts above actually aren't going to be uncommon among any sports organizations. At all schools, coaches are not going to work out sometimes; players will get in trouble sometimes; even a Michigan will lose to Appalachian State occasionally; etc. But if these bad things overwhelm the successes, as they've done at Pitt, many people will feel that their donations are good money chasing bad. And tend not to donate (at least not much). People donate to feel good, and to believe they are doing good. Pitt sports really haven't given reasons to feel those things.
Pitt employees here, or whatever they are, seem to be taking this personally, but it's not unique to Pitt. It's how donors would be for anything, everywhere.
UMMMM......
who are the highest paid employees of our esteemed university??
And its not a business??
With that I am going to agree to disagree on this topic as I too do not take things personally.
That is fine. However, I also believe that anyone that thinks that Pitt and Pitt athletics would not be better with more private support are insane. But even insane people have a place in society. And with that, I'm off to State College. Hail to Pitt!
Again. Not all businesses are the same. This is not Amazon. It is not a retail business. It is one that relies heavily on donor support and ticket sales as the media money is typically the same in the p5. And that is where we fall behind. It is not a professional sports team either where you buy and sell players with most leagues ha ing an artificial cap.
That is what people aren't getting. They compare Apple's to oranges and view it similar to things it is not.
Just one more item, I never argued that Pitt or Pitt Athletics would not be better with more support in the grand scheme of things. I stated that Pitt has not earned more support based of past history and i stated there is a time an a place to pull support as a tool. I do not think that is a hard concept to understand.
If Pitt had their Boone Pickens it would be great . Knowing Pitt though they would tell him not to expect to have any influence on any major decisions . I think it's great that your such a loyal fan of the university I hope your as good a friend to your friends as you are to Pitt . Athletics is a result driven business and Pitts track record isn't good and expecting people to support programs that constantly disappoint is a tough sale .
I'm not sure recruiting a 2.0 gpa high school kid who can dunk a bb or a kid who runs the 40 in 4.4 qualifies as being charitable . It's a little self serving thinking your helping humanity by providing a college education to an unqualified student because he can ball . Very few of these kids would qualify for admission at the academic institution they're attending nor would they even attend a college except to play ball and dream of a future professional career .
Sorry but there is NOTHING this gentleman has said which can lead to the ineluctable conclusion that he is not a fan. That's an unfair and specious leap of logic on your part.
I guess the more you spend the bigger fan you are . If your poor I guess you don't count !
No, I made it clear what I meant. You can be done, but I wasn't saying Pitt was literally taking money they said was for a specific line item or fund and illegally funding something else. They do sell that they are trying to compete to the highest degree in P5 athletics and then they make hires like Mike Haywood and Co. or Kevin Stallings. If you are telling donors you are going to do everything you can to compete and make those hires, then you are lying. Disregard the "misappropriation" confusion.
If Pitt's AD tells their donors/fans/whatever they are trying to compete and win as a P5 football program in order to solicit donations (even 1 donation), but then go hire Mike Haywood, then they lied and falsely represented their purpose and goals. That hire was about being cheap and seeing if they could still get a reasonable return. I don't care how you want to sell it or how you want to defend Pitt, but that hire was absolute horse $hit. They didn't make that hire with any intention of competing at a high level.
I agree. The Steve Pederson golden parachute was absolutely an example of irresponsibility and, for me, COMPLETELY marred Chancellor Nordenberg's time at Pitt. If I saw him again after that, I would have told him that to his face. I've said it to other Pitt officials and I wasn't even one of the crazy Steve P haters. It was a situation where I wish Pitt could take legal action against Nordenberg, but obviously there is no leg to stand on and lots of public face to lose. However, it was clearly a Pitt (highest) official making an irresponsible decision to help a friend without regard to the damage it would do to the University and the Athletic Department.
That's why I didn't want to fire Wanny, wanted Pederson fired instead, but his boy Nordy, rather fire Wanny, not having a plan for that firing , why, because , he didn't give a damn about Pitt football! No president would have fired Wanny, and hire a meatball idiot like Haywood, we all know this.
I knew if they fired Wanny, before they did, they would just make it worse , and they did. I saw that coming, when I felt Pederson was feeling better, had head tucked between his tail for awhile back at Pitt the second time. I knew once he felt more in power he would go after Wanny, and the idiot ruined the solid footing we were on at the time, Nebraska nor Pitt haven't fully recovered as well. Hell, we are trying to get back to the Wanny years. Wanny brought stability and was liked and was building slowly , I felt. I knew had we fired him, we would make the wrong hire , well......we end up making a few
I knew if they fired Wanny, before they did, they would just make it worse , and they did. I saw that coming, when I felt Pederson was feeling better, had head tucked between his tail for awhile back at Pitt the second time. I knew once he felt more in power he would go after Wanny, and the idiot ruined the solid footing we were on at the time, Nebraska nor Pitt haven't fully recovered as well. Hell, we are trying to get back to the Wanny years. Wanny brought stability and was liked and was building slowly , I felt. I knew had we fired him, we would make the wrong hire , well......we end up making a few
