Stillers vs. Cards game day thread

[pittdrum]

A few years back I believe a Steelers player called the Bengals “Paper Tigers”.

The Steelers have become that. A lot of talk without backing anything up. They have a little bit of success (got some yards last week but still couldn’t score) and everybody better watch out. Yeah, right….

Melted Steel….

 

[h2p_5150]

At least James Conner is having a good game. It's a shame his career (college and NFL really) has been wasted playing on mediocre and bad teams. Guy deserves to win.

 

[TheChair]

Not really arguing that. But their D got smoked last week. The O line wasn’t that hot either

I get you. My point is, they are .500 now with Murray. Not exactly the team earlier this year that was 1-8. Murray means a great deal to them, he makes them passable. This still is a really bad loss, no doubt.

 

[mike 301]

So ..
Where does Tomlin end up ?
Certainly not Head coach of this team ...
If he's not fired , Rooney has to be replaced as the worst owner since Tepper .

 

[h2p_5150]

Belichick is pissed. He's thinking these clowns are so bad they might thwart his QB tanking efforts Thursday.

There's no way. Bailey Zappe makes Trubisky look like Elway. New England might not score double digits again this year.

 

[TheChair]

At least James Conner is having a good game. It's a shame his career (college and NFL really) has been wasted playing on mediocre and bad teams. Guy deserves to win.

The dude had a great college career, beat cancer, positively impacted people's lives, made a Pro Bowl or two and about $20M so far as a pro. Who cares if he wins football games, he has already won life.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Eagles were 4-11 when they fired Pederson

So you must think Pitt should fire Narduzzi then, right? If one season is what you're basing it off.

I was referring to Reid, but the same logic applies. If you think a coach is only one bad season away from the firing being justified, what are you keeping him for in the first place?

 

[happjack]

There's no way. Bailey Zappe makes Trubisky look like Elway. New England might not score double digits again this year.

They won’t need to score double digits, that game is going to have weird score like 6-5.

 

[BFo8]

There's no way. Bailey Zappe makes Trubisky look like Elway. New England might not score double digits again this year.

Their defense is pretty good, they may outscore us on that alone.

 

[Pitt8189]

So you must think Pitt should fire Narduzzi then, right? If one season is what you're basing it off.

If Pitt can bring in someone better, which is doubtful in my mind.

The Eagles didn’t fire a coach who was coming off a winning season/playoff appearance. They were going in the opposite direction.

 

[NCanton Panther]

Lol uh actually you should always consider whether or not making a change will make things worse. Pitt did that twice within 5 years with Dixon and Wanny

Sorry, I’m with Tomlin, I don’t believe in living in your fears.

But that’s only words to MikeT. He coaches like he does live in his fears.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

If Pitt can bring in someone better, which is doubtful in my mind.

The Eagles didn’t fire a coach who was coming off a winning season/playoff appearance. They were going in the opposite direction.

One season negated Andy Reid's entire body of work? Or do you think it's possible they're were tired of spinning their wheels and not winning championships?

 

[Pitt8189]

One season negated Andy Reid's entire body of work? Or do you think it's possible they're were tired of spinning their wheels and not winning championships?

Eagles were 8-8 and 4-12 in Reid’s last two seasons in Philly. They seemed to be going in the wrong direction in this instance as well

 

[Pitt8189]

I am sure if the Steelers lose the rest of their games fans will get their wish and the Steelers and Tomlin will “divorce.”

And with this anemic offense that is a clear possibility

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

The dude had a great college career, beat cancer, positively impacted people's lives, made a Pro Bowl or two and about $20M so far as a pro. Who cares if he wins football games, he has already won life.

And yet you had losers like Mark Madden who trashed him on Twitter.

 

[TheChair]

And yet you had losers like Mark Madden who trashed him on Twitter.

I do not know why after all these years anyone in Pittsburgh cares what Mark Madden says about anything. He has been a jerk that everyone in the Pittsburgh media hates and he has openly held grudges/said non-sensical things about everyone in Pittsburgh except Ben Roethlisberger and anything associated with the Penguins. Not to mention that the bulk of his opinions except about Ben and Sidney Crosby have been soundly wrong.

Conner has done great at every turn all things considered. Great on him for his success, what he has overcome and how he has done it.

 

[S.R.M.]

If Pitt can bring in someone better, which is doubtful in my mind.

The Eagles didn’t fire a coach who was coming off a winning season/playoff appearance. They were going in the opposite direction.

At what point do you decide 9-8 isn't good enough? At some point you need to try and actually win something and not just piddle along at .500.

 

[TheChair]

At what point do you decide 9-8 isn't good enough? At some point you need to try and actually win something and not just piddle along at .500.

When you have better than 9-8 talent and you are going 9-8 or less than it. Do you think that they have 13 win talent right now?

 

[PittAU]

The Steelers are not good. The defense is a long way from being clutch. The OL is garbage. They are undisciplined. I was glad though that Dionte Johnson was able to do his little dance after the TD. Too bad they were two TDs behind.

They are, All Talk, No Shock.

 

[S.R.M.]

When you have better than 9-8 talent and you are going 9-8 or less than it. Do you think that they have 13 win talent right now?

Tomlin is very good at making bad teams mediocre and mediocre teams good. He blew it completely when he had the most talented team in the league for about 3-4 years from 2014-2018. He couldn't get it done in the playoffs. It is time to move on. The franchise is stagnating, they haven't gone this long without playoff success since the 60's. I think Tomlin is a top 1/3 coach in the league but Tomlin and the Steelers need to split like Reid and the eagles did. It may work out best for everyone.

 

[TheChair]

Tomlin is very good at making bad teams mediocre and mediocre teams good. He blew it completely when he had the most talented team in the league for about 3-4 years from 2014-2018. He couldn't get it done in the playoffs. It is time to move on. The franchise is stagnating, they haven't gone this long without playoff success since the 60's. I think Tomlin is a top 1/3 coach in the league but Tomlin and the Steelers need to split like Reid and the eagles did. It may work out best for everyone.

But what do you think about right now?

Not 2014-2018, but now? And do you think he should have won games at the end of those years when he did not have Bell (2014, 2015, 2016, 2018) and Brown (2015, 2018) in a few of them?

 

[S.R.M.]

But what do you think about right now?

Not 2014-2018, but now? And do you think he should have won games at the end of those years when he did not have Bell (2014, 2015, 2016, 2018) and Brown (2015, 2018) in a few of them?

Yes, I feel he has underachieved with top end talent. Those teams in the middle of the last decade should have made at least one Superbowl. I think the current roster is mediocre and he has them playing mediocre. I think an NFL average coach will finish around .500 with this team. Let's not act like this team is bereft of talent. They have the best defensive player in the league and the offense has weapons. Tomlin is a good coach but it is time to move on unless we are ok with 9-8 every year.

 

[TheChair]

Yes, I feel he has underachieved with top end talent. Those teams in the middle of the last decade should have made at least one Superbowl. I think the current roster is mediocre and he has them playing mediocre. I think an NFL average coach will finish around .500 with this team. Let's not act like this team is bereft of talent. They have the best defensive player in the league and the offense has weapons. Tomlin is a good coach but it is time to move on unless we are ok with 9-8 every year.

It’s hard to win with top end talent when it is not on the field. He had great guys in Ben, Bell and Brown but during their prime they literally only played through one season with each other (which was a not great loss to Jacksonville where the offense put up 40+).

Those guys did not make it through any of the other seasons he had them at their best. Brown was knocked out against Cincy. Bell was injured was out for the playoff game they lost in 2014, blew out his knee in 2015 during the season, pulled his groin early against NE in 2016, played 2017 and sat out 2018.

Tomlin literally only had that great offense together once through the last game of the season when he had them. And they had to go through a stacked conference that included prime Tom Brady.

This team is not bereft of talent. But do they have 13-14 win talent? I mean, I think SF does and the Steelers looked nearwhere near them. Jacksonville may and Pittsburgh looked a touch behind. This is a 7-11 talent win team. They will be better in a few years as some guys mature and they supplement more around them (another draft like this past one would help a ton).

It should be hard to complain about that is likely to win 9 games with what is likely 9 win talent. And, when he had talent, he made Super Bowls or progressed the team when they had hurt stars in big games.

 

[S.R.M.]

It’s hard to win with top end talent when it is not on the field. He had great guys in Ben, Bell and Brown but during their prime they literally only played through one season with each other (which was a not great loss to Jacksonville where the offense put up 40+).

Those guys did not make it through any of the other seasons he had them at their best. Brown was knocked out against Cincy. Bell was injured was out for the playoff game they lost in 2014, blew out his knee in 2015 during the season, pulled his groin early against NE in 2016, played 2017 and sat out 2018.

Tomlin literally only had that great offense together once through the last game of the season when he had them. And they had to go through a stacked conference that included prime Tom Brady.

This team is not bereft of talent. But do they have 13-14 win talent? I mean, I think SF does and the Steelers looked nearwhere near them. Jacksonville may and Pittsburgh looked a touch behind. This is a 7-11 talent win team. They will be better in a few years as some guys mature and they supplement more around them (another draft like this past one would help a ton).

It should be hard to complain about that is likely to win 9 games with what is likely 9 win talent. And, when he had talent, he made Super Bowls or progressed the team when they had hurt stars in big games.

The Steelers haven't won a playoff game since 2017 something needs to change.

 

[TheChair]

The Steelers haven't won a playoff game since 2017 something needs to change.

This gets overdone. They ate a few years when Ben was done for the sake of letting him play out his time. Maybe not a great winning decision but it is the decision that they made. He got hurt in 2019, they had some smoke and mirrors in 2020 and in 2021 he was fully done. They are now developing another young QB, which generally takes time.

They need to keep drafting well like they did this past year, developing their young guys and supplementing around them. This was never meant to be a great team, it was meant to be a progressing team. You can see guys like Jones, Warren, Pickens, Benton and Porter getting better every game. Sometimes Pickett makes you think he could be the guy but he is the real question mark.

All in all, they are doing well with what they have and they just need more. They do not need to change anything as much as progress and continue to build.

 

[mike 301]

Tomlin needs replaced . i.e.

 

[S.R.M.]

This gets overdone. They ate a few years when Ben was done for the sake of letting him play out his time. Maybe not a great winning decision but it is the decision that they made. He got hurt in 2019, they had some smoke and mirrors in 2020 and in 2021 he was fully done. They are now developing another young QB, which generally takes time.

They need to keep drafting well like they did this past year, developing their young guys and supplementing around them. This was never meant to be a great team, it was meant to be a progressing team. You can see guys like Jones, Warren, Pickens, Benton and Porter getting better every game. Sometimes Pickett makes you think he could be the guy but he is the real question mark.

All in all, they are doing well with what they have and they just need more. They do not need to change anything as much as progress and continue to build.

Agree to disagree and I've been a long time Tomlin apologist. I don't hate the guy and I wouldn't be surprised if he has success somewhere else if he and the Steelers ever parted ways, but I think sometime the message gets stale and the length of time without playoff success isn't acceptable.

 

[Mufasa94]

Steelers playing another game where they have dominated play but have almost no points and are about to be down.

That description fits a good portion of their opponents and Steelers wins this season. They are fortunate to be 7-5.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

At what point do you decide 9-8 isn't good enough? At some point you need to try and actually win something and not just piddle along at .500.

Wherever Billicheat finishes this year, it’ll be better than a handful of 9-8 seasons.

 

[TheChair]

Agree to disagree and I've been a long time Tomlin apologist. I don't hate the guy and I wouldn't be surprised if he has success somewhere else if he and the Steelers ever parted ways, but I think sometime the message gets stale and the length of time without playoff success isn't acceptable.

At the end of the day, my end thought is that they decided to ride Ben out as long as he was able and now they are rebuilding. They just happen to be catching a lot of fortune with winning while rebuilding and I think his message is actually heard because they find ways to win games when they have no business winning (see Cleveland and Baltimore earlier this year for example). He has them reasonably playing and in three of the games that they lost, their starting QB was knocked out while they were still in the game (including today at the one yard line).

I would guess that they will get back to being pretty good over the upcoming years and people will still not be happy (Pickett just cannot get past Lawrence or Mahomes, etc). This is a fan base impossible to please as Cowher was largely successful and still dealt with a lot of the same after a long run. The 1970s and the entitlement afterwards has largely stuck, which is both positive and negative.

FWIW, I tend to think that Tomlin goes the Cowher route once his time in Pittsburgh is done. Media, making tons of cash with no stress, lives a great life. He seems like one of those types of guys because if it was about making more money, a new challenge, he could have left whenever he wanted over the past decade or so.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Tomlin is very good at making bad teams mediocre and mediocre teams good. He blew it completely when he had the most talented team in the league for about 3-4 years from 2014-2018. He couldn't get it done in the playoffs. It is time to move on. The franchise is stagnating, they haven't gone this long without playoff success since the 60's. I think Tomlin is a top 1/3 coach in the league but Tomlin and the Steelers need to split like Reid and the eagles did. It may work out best for everyone.

Or it may end up worse.

But it’s better than perpetually spinning wheels in mediocrity.

The Steeler HC job is the most attractive job in sport because of the stability it brings. So Rooney should be able to hire whoever he wants. So if it doesn’t work out, it’s malpractice.

 

[TheChair]

Or it may end up worse.

But it’s better than perpetually spinning wheels in mediocrity.

The Steeler HC job is the most attractive job in sport because of the stability it brings. So Rooney should be able to hire whoever he wants. So if it doesn’t work out, it’s malpractice.

I think one of the better questions to ask that I never see anyone really ask is who or what profile would they hire if they had to? What would the next HC look like? Offensive guy or defensive guy? Young like Cowher and Tomlin were, or maybe a little closer to 45-50 already? Cerebral or motivator?

Cowher and Tomlin have a lot of similarities all things considered. Defensive guys. Motivators. Took the job very young. Lighter resumes before coming HC. Know how to represent the team. Want to play physical.

I would guess that the next coach fits a similar profile. But, it would be interesting to see because I get the impression the present Art Rooney runs the ship different than Dan Rooney did.

Something about the Khan/Weidl combination leads me to believe that the next coach maybe would come in and change some things (go 4-3 for example).

 

[Burgh15]

The Steelers haven't won a playoff game since 2017 something needs to change.

Beyond this, the Steelers have only won a playoff game in 4 of 16 seasons under Tomlin and that doesn't look like it'll change this season.

 

[PittPharm2002]

One season negated Andy Reid's entire body of work? Or do you think it's possible they're were tired of spinning their wheels and not winning championships?

They also tossed their Super Bowl winning coach , too , Doug Pederson
Just saying - maybe not the best comparison

 

[DruidTM]

They won’t need to score double digits, that game is going to have weird score like 6-5.

5-2 final

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

They also tossed their Super Bowl winning coach , too , Doug Pederson
Just saying - maybe not the best cocomparison

Or maybe the best comparison out there....?

Reid got stale... replaced him and went to a SB.

Pederson got stale... replaced him and went to a SB.

 

[pittmeister]

 

[steelcurtain55.]

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Cowher and Tomlin have a lot of similarities all things considered. Defensive guys. Motivators. Took the job very young. Lighter resumes before coming HC. Know how to represent the team. Want to play physical.

I think the biggest dissimilarity is the ability to hire quality coaches who are coveted around the league.

 

[PittPharm2002]

I think the biggest dissimilarity is the ability to hire quality coaches who are coveted around the league.

Mostly because Dan apent money on the coaching staff
Art2 doesnt