Temple gets approval for on-campus stadium design study

[QuitCallingMeWanny]

Just tear down Oakland......BAM!!!! New Pitt Stadium.....I always picture this when GhostofPitt40 and his ten minions think about a new stadium
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[pittengineer75]

Wink Wink. Nudge Nudge.

Why do you think that Scott Barnes has to have discussions with the Steelers, not the stadium authority, for making improvements on gameday?

Because both of the primary tenants have to sign off on the changes. Pitt had to sign off with the expansion of Heinz with the South Club section and modifications it wanted as part of the construction.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Again

I don't think the Rooney's would care if Pitt Tarped Heinz as long as they were removed for the Steelers game.

Rooney to Pitt. Will you pay for the cost of the Tarp and the placement and removal.

Pitt to Rooney. YES

Rooney to Pitt. OK

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Swervin27]

Barnes was on the Fan this morning, mentioned the branding thing again with regards to "The field" and how he is in talks with the steelers.. Translation: he needs permission to paint a freakin script pitt on the field.. Do you think the steelers and the Rooneys would have to call up Scott Barnes if they wanted to put a steeler logo in the endzone? Come on now,

 

[ThePanthers]

Barnes was on the Fan this morning, mentioned the branding thing again with regards to "The field" and how he is in talks with the steelers.. Translation: he needs permission to paint a freakin script pitt on the field.. Do you think the steelers and the Rooneys would have to call up Scott Barnes if they wanted to put a steeler logo in the endzone? Come on now,

How come they don't?

 

[Swervin27]

How come they don't?

how come who doesn't what?

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Pitt is now deciding whether to sell Beer at Pitt Heinz Field for general seating.

I wonder if Barnes talked to Rooney.

Pitt to Rooney. Can we sell Beer at Pitt games as you now do for Steeler games.

Rooney to Pitt. OK Don't I also get some of the Concession money.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[HailtoPitt]

[/QUOTE]

Because both of the primary tenants have to sign off on the changes. Pitt had to sign off with the expansion of Heinz with the South Club section and modifications it wanted as part of the construction.

Again. Wink wink. Nudge nudge. Do you think Pitt had any say in the black and "steeler yellow" seats that the planning commision was tricked/forced into approving?

Do you think Pitt had any real say in eliminating the stadium's best feature to add even more seats in the south end zone.

Not sure how to get past some of the naivety on here, but the reason why Pitt doesn't have more branding on the field, or tarped seats, is because the Steelers don't want it. It is not a two way street.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Because both of the primary tenants have to sign off on the changes. Pitt had to sign off with the expansion of Heinz with the South Club section and modifications it wanted as part of the construction.

What if Pitt did not sign off on this.

Do you think the expansion would have taken place.

What I recall is that the Rooney's initially wanted the Stadium Authority to pay for the expansion.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[HailtoPitt]

What if Pitt did not sign off on this.

Do you think the expansion would have taken place.

What I recall is that the Rooney's initially wanted the Stadium Authority to pay for the expansion.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

The Steelers "paid" for it pubically, but will get that money back in future repairs and upgrades that are less visible.

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

LOL. Temple is going to have a brand new, on campus stadium and Pitt will still be playing in front of bright yellow seats at Heinz Field.

What a shame.

Umm i'm pretty sure the seat at Heinz will need replaced before Temple actually builds their tiny stadium. So we could have empty black or blue seats? who knows, the possibilities are endless.
-as is this debate.

Pitt will not build a stadium unless the Steelers leave for the suburbs.
-annnnnnd that's all folks!

 

[eastcoasthoops]

Did you read the article? Obviously not.

I mean no disrespect, but the cursory analysis of the feasibility of building of a football stadium in the space identified by a blogger whose practical background is that of a production intern is less than meaningless.

I sincerely appreciate the efforts and the desire to have a football stadium on campus. I have very fond memories of walking up Cardiac Hill to go watch Dan Marino as a kid with my Dad. But no matter how much I wax poetic about sitting in the bleachers at Pitt Stadium, the realities of the situation can not be ignored.

There isn't the space, the funds, nor the political will to invest in all that is required to build a football stadium in Oakland. Not now. Not in the foreseeable future.

The answers to the attendance problem can all be found on the North Shore. Win 10 games a year and butts in seats will not be an issue.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I mean no disrespect, but the cursory analysis of the feasibility of building of a football stadium in the space identified by a blogger whose practical background is that of a production intern is less than meaningless.

I sincerely appreciate the efforts and the desire to have a football stadium on campus. I have very fond memories of walking up Cardiac Hill to go watch Dan Marino as a kid with my Dad. But no matter how much I wax poetic about sitting in the bleachers at Pitt Stadium, the realities of the situation can not be ignored.

There isn't the space, the funds, nor the political will to invest in all that is required to build a football stadium in Oakland. Not now. Not in the foreseeable future.

The answers to the attendance problem can all be found on the North Shore. Win 10 games a year and butts in seats will not be an issue.

Yet, Temple can do it.

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

Yet, Temple can do it.

They can commission a study.
That's hardly the same as funding a stadium, getting approvals to build a stadium, and then actually doing it.

 

[burgerczar]

I don't think there is anyone who doesn't want an on-campus stadium, including the administration.

The problem is; is it worth the investment? A study needs to be done and ask a series of questions....

What do you hope to accomplish with the new stadium? Better attendance? Will it help with recruiting? A better game day experience? How much are you willing to invest? What land do they build it on? Is there enough parking? How will it affect traffic to and from the game?

Look at other programs such as, Rutgers and see how it has effected their program positively or negatively.

Keep something else in mind. This whole on-campus stadium project could backfire big time. One of the unique selling points to recruits is playing in a pro football stadium and shared facilities with the Pittsburgh Steelers. An on campus stadium could affect that situation.

So then what do you sell to the recruit? A 45,000 seat on campus stadium built on the cheap? There are some high schools that play in 30,000 seat stadiums. If you go this direction, you better make sure it's state of the art with all the bells and whistles. You also need the money to keep up with repairs as well. No more sharing expenses with the Steelers or the city.

Does it make more sense to use the money to upgrade current facilities? How about using the money to increase salaries in order to keep good coaches? I know that comes from a different budget, but extra money was donated to MSU in order to keep Narduzzi as their DC. It can be done.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

Yet, Temple can do it.

Have you ever been to North Philadelphia?

 

[HailtoPitt]

Have you ever been to North Philadelphia?

Yes. What are you trying to say. That they have more space available?

 

[eastcoasthoops]

Yes. What are you trying to say. That they have more space available?

A $130 million dollar stadium development in the relatively flat area of North Philadelphia (on land that Temple already owns, mind you) would be like putting lipstick on a pig. You get essentially…Akron's stadium surrounded by blight. Think people are going to come out of the woodwork to go to North Philly to watch Temple v UMass there? The Temple study…and thats all that it is…is grandstanding by the current school President. And look a the protests already from locals, never mind the lack of support from the Philly Mayor, etc.

You think Pat Narduzzi is praying for the opportunity to pitch playing on campus in Akron's stadium to recruits? You think some fans have inferiority problems now! Just wait till you hear THAT spin from Pitt's peer institutions.

 

[rojo36]

Here's what I feel most strongly about. I understand that building a right-sized facility in Oakland would be difficult in any circumstance and impossible in the current climate. I mean Pitt couldn't even get a small stretch of Bigelow Blvd. shut down for God's sake! I get that, I really do.

However, if the plan is to sit back and wait for the fans to roll into Heinz Field on a regular/semi-regular basis because fan enthusiasm will be through the roof and the school is totally committed to football now, well...

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That's just not going to happen - at least not regularly. If we are stuck at Heinz Field or another 60K+ facility for the foreseeable future then it really is time to start exploring the tarp option.

And what will happen if the drum roll starts to move the Steelers to a new stadium in Cranberry ? Can you imagine Pitt playing in Cranberry ? I can't.

 

[bwh05]

I don't think there is anyone who doesn't want an on-campus stadium, including the administration.

The problem is; is it worth the investment? A study needs to be done and ask a series of questions....

What do you hope to accomplish with the new stadium? Better attendance? Will it help with recruiting? A better game day experience? How much are you willing to invest? What land do they build it on? Is there enough parking? How will it affect traffic to and from the game?

Look at other programs such as, Rutgers and see how it has effected their program positively or negatively.

Keep something else in mind. This whole on-campus stadium project could backfire big time. One of the unique selling points to recruits is playing in a pro football stadium and shared facilities with the Pittsburgh Steelers. An on campus stadium could affect that situation.

So then what do you sell to the recruit? A 45,000 seat on campus stadium built on the cheap? There are some high schools that play in 30,000 seat stadiums. If you go this direction, you better make sure it's state of the art with all the bells and whistles. You also need the money to keep up with repairs as well. No more sharing expenses with the Steelers or the city.

Does it make more sense to use the money to upgrade current facilities? How about using the money to increase salaries in order to keep good coaches? I know that comes from a different budget, but extra money was donated to MSU in order to keep Narduzzi as their DC. It can be done.

This is where we're at in the process. We're looking at options on campus and the surrounding area. The questions are, is it really feasible? Would it represent and improvement over our current situation? I guess we'll find out soon enough which way they want to go.

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

If the Steelers move to Cranberry/Washington etc....(which is REAL unlikely)
Then Pitt will build a stadium- probably not in Oakland; or will renovate Heinz to meet Pitt's needs.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

And what will happen if the drum roll starts to move the Steelers to a new stadium in Cranberry ? Can you imagine Pitt playing in Cranberry ? I can't.

There are now a WHOLE lot more mouths to feed on the North Shore than just the Steelers. Granted, the Rooneys have the most power. But along with all of the development that the Rooney's themselves required for the space surrounding Heinz, comes a lot of expectations. The city is not going to allow a tenant with the drawing power of the Steelers walk away to Butler County and leave all of those business owners (office space, restaurants, bars, hotels) hanging in the breeze.

The Steelers I'm sure will use "moving" as leverage in negotiations for future concessions, but it will all be just for show. They aren't moving off the North Shore in our lifetimes.

 

[HailtoPitt]

A $130 million dollar stadium development in the relatively flat area of North Philadelphia (on land that Temple already owns, mind you) would be like putting lipstick on a pig. You get essentially…Akron's stadium surrounded by blight. Think people are going to come out of the woodwork to go to North Philly to watch Temple v UMass there? The Temple study…and thats all that it is…is grandstanding by the current school President. And look a the protests already from locals, never mind the lack of support from the Philly Mayor, etc.

You think Pat Narduzzi is praying for the opportunity to pitch playing on campus in Akron's stadium to recruits? You think some fans have inferiority problems now! Just wait till you hear THAT spin from Pitt's peer institutions.

I don't buy the grandstanding theory. Temple is actually fundraising for the stadium.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

I don't buy the grandstanding theory. Temple is actually fundraising for the stadium.

The thinking is, why keep paying the exorbitant fee the Eagles charge to use the stadium when you can put that money toward your own facility. (The cost to build would be X, which is the sum of Y and Z. Y is what you can get through fundraising efforts; Z is what you would have to borrow, most likely through a bond issue. The projection is that annual debt service on the bond issue would be less than what Temple would be paying the Eagles annually.)

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

and that all works as long as "X" doesnt get too high, due to concessions to the local government and all the other opposition to doing the project.

I hope they get a stadium, but i think that the mayor etc could also provide an alternative, such as pushing for a "fair deal" with the eagles.

 

[raleighpanther]

Hey, here's an idea, one that sounds silly, but then again, has some merit. Why don't we have "yellow outs" at the games? Then, a few empty yellow seats scattered among an otherwise full section won't look like flashing neon signs and make the place look more empty than it is.

Also, why can't we get more camera shots from the other side of the stadium, from which the student section can be seen? Same issue at the Pete. The Zoo isn't usually in the camera frame when the crowd is being shown, unless its an up close court level camera specifically focused on the Zoo. I know they can't move the press box at either venue to the other side of the field, but surely they could work it out with networks so that some of their stadium shots are from a better angle.

 

[ClarkLotTgate]

Hey, here's an idea, one that sounds silly, but then again, has some merit. Why don't we have "yellow outs" at the games? Then, a few empty yellow seats scattered among an otherwise full section won't look like flashing neon signs and make the place look more empty than it is.

Also, why can't we get more camera shots from the other side of the stadium, from which the student section can be seen? Same issue at the Pete. The Zoo isn't usually in the camera frame when the crowd is being shown, unless its an up close court level camera specifically focused on the Zoo. I know they can't move the press box at either venue to the other side of the field, but surely they could work it out with networks so that some of their stadium shots are from a better angle.

Tarp the upper end-zone bleacher.
it would push those fans into the visitor upper sideline, and make the place look muuuuch better for TV purposes.

love the idea of a "gold/yellow" out haha.
(it actually is a really good idea for PSU game)

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Yes, they own the land but they also bought a neghboring abandoned high school so whatever space they give up with the stadium, they can get back by demolishing that HS if they choose.

Demolishing the closed William Penn High School is part of the plan. The non-revenue sports and phys ed/recreational uses currently situated at Geasey Field (where the stadium is proposed to be constructed) would move to the land occupied by WPHS.

 

[OmarLittle]

FWIW there is a way to have an on campus stadium, (granted its not 'currently' on campus but could be an extension very easily) 100+ more acres for other school buildings, no displacing people or tearing down current homes/buildings, no infrastructure nightmares except possible 100 yards of new exits off 376.

I have been talking about it on the pay board with the non-paupers and now i strongly believe we have a vast army of at least 3 behind the idea.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

The thinking is, why keep paying the exorbitant fee the Eagles charge to use the stadium when you can put that money toward your own facility. (The cost to build would be X, which is the sum of Y and Z. Y is what you can get through fundraising efforts; Z is what you would have to borrow, most likely through a bond issue. The projection is that annual debt service on the bond issue would be less than what Temple would be paying the Eagles annually.)

Perhaps "grandstanding" was a poor choice of words. The President of Temple's background academically is in Higher Education funding. The propping up of football as a financial boon is his chip to play, of course I believe it came at the expense of several "olympic" sports that Temple discontinued.

I know in past years, Temple paid the Eagles about $1MM per year rent to use The Linc. Will the debt service of a new ~$130MM stadium save them money in the long run? I don't know. But considering Temple's endowment is around ~$350MM, any private fundraising goal approaching $100MM for them would be reaching incredible new heights.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained I guess. But I imagine the results of the study will show that a football stadium on Broad Street will be a difficult task to complete.

 

[ThePanthers]

how come who doesn't what?

The Steelers just paint the endzones saying Steelers and have a giant Steeler symbol in the middle.

 

[raleighpanther]

If the Steelers move to Cranberry/Washington etc....(which is REAL unlikely)
Then Pitt will build a stadium- probably not in Oakland; or will renovate Heinz to meet Pitt's needs.

That is exactly right. If the Steelers were to move to Cranberry, Heinz wouldn't suddenly tumble into the river and get washed away. While the city may not move very far in regards to helping Pitt build a new stadium, its not going to screw Pitt either, by tearing down Heinz and telling Pitt to get lost. But even if a new stadium were eventually built, don't assume that it will be in Oakland.

People bitch that Pitt doesn't have as much power as the Steelers in the city or in regards to Heinz. Well, duh, one is an NFL franchise which brings enormous economic benefits to the city and has the power to up and move out of the city, or even out of the area if its not getting its needs met by the city. And the other is a university that ain't going anywhere.

Pitt's relationship with the Steelers is ENORMOUSLY beneficial. For one, Pitt got a new stadium to play in, with roads and parking built etc. with city assistance.

And it all happened because of the Steelers.
And it cost Pitt nothing.
So we have to pay a little rent to use it. Give me a break.
And we have to have a discussions to make changes to the stadium. Not a big deal.

The Steelers invited Pitt to join them at Heinz, and over at the South Side. They didn't have to do either. A little while ago, I just started a post about Weaver and a 2017 target who were both blown away when hearing that Pitt shares facilities with the Steelers. Huge selling point for recruits.

The Pitt - Steelers relationship, all in all, is wonderful for Pitt. But some of you guys act like the Steelers kick Pitt around, and want us to end the relationship. That is nonsense.

Plus, this whole conversation feels like its still set in the past, when a new on-campus stadium was needed to get Pitt out of the doledrums and jump start the program. Well, Gallagher, Barnes and Narduzzi have already jump started the program, if you haven't noticed, and we may well be on our well to filling up a much larger share of those empty Heinz seats. But some of you guys still have your heads down thinking we are eternally stuck in the past, and still think we need a 45k seat stadium, or we're doomed.

 

[HailtoPitt]

The Steelers aren't leaving the birthplace of pro football.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

Stadium threads never get old.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

I know in past years, Temple paid the Eagles about $1MM per year rent to use The Linc. Will the debt service of a new ~$130MM stadium save them money in the long run? I don't know. But considering Temple's endowment is around ~$350MM, any private fundraising goal approaching $100MM for them would be reaching incredible new heights.

.

Not sure if the $1 million per year figure is accurate (that is one of the figures I've heard, but I've heard others that are higher), but as I understand it, the current "lease" expires after the 2017 season. What helped move the campus stadium idea forward was the preliminary negotiations with the Eagles on renewal, and the terms the Eagles proposed (substantially higher). That got an "aw, hell no" reaction from Temple. Plus, as I understand it, under the current "deal" Temple gets NONE of the revenue from concessions, parking, etc., which they would obviously get from an on-campus stadium and also figures into the financial projections. Add in the prospect of revenue from other events that could be held at the stadium. It has also been suggested that there would be retail space at the stadium which would generate revenue on a year-round basis. Figuring all that into the equation, Temple would be almost foolish not to build it.

 

[Rockyhound]

Not sure if the $1 million per year figure is accurate (that is one of the figures I've heard, but I've heard others that are higher), but as I understand it, the current "lease" expires after the 2017 season. What helped move the campus stadium idea forward was the preliminary negotiations with the Eagles on renewal, and the terms the Eagles proposed (substantially higher). That got an "aw, hell no" reaction from Temple. Plus, as I understand it, under the current "deal" Temple gets NONE of the revenue from concessions, parking, etc., which they would obviously get from an on-campus stadium and also figures into the financial projections. Add in the prospect of revenue from other events that could be held at the stadium. It has also been suggested that there would be retail space at the stadium which would generate revenue on a year-round basis. Figuring all that into the equation, Temple would be almost foolish not to build it.

Sorry if I missed this in another discussion but what is the deal with the Linc and the Iggles? How is the stadium's ownership different than Heinz? Do the Birds actually own it? Wasn't public money used to build it like Heinz?

I'm having a hard time understanding how, if the stadium was built with taxpayer money, can the Iggles pull any kind of shenanigans in terms of rent? If memory serves me correctly (I am middle age so that's a crap shoot) wasn't one of the deals of public money that Temple be allowed to use the stadium?

I'm all for the Owls getting their own stadium but as a tax payer I want to see tax funded entertainment venues used as much as possible too.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Here's what bothers me.
I'm not sure of the probability of this ever happening but it has to be considered by PITT.

Let's say Heinz field gets out of date, run down, to costly to renovate, parking lots keep being converted to other purposes, no place to tailgate, heavy gameday traffic, fans complain so the Rooney's say F this we'll build our own place somewhere else.

What's PITT's plan B?

Maybe PITT's plan B is this will never happen.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

Sorry if I missed this in another discussion but what is the deal with the Linc and the Iggles? How is the stadium's ownership different than Heinz? Do the Birds actually own it? Wasn't public money used to build it like Heinz?

I'm having a hard time understanding how, if the stadium was built with taxpayer money, can the Iggles pull any kind of shenanigans in terms of rent? If memory serves me correctly (I am middle age so that's a crap shoot) wasn't one of the deals of public money that Temple be allowed to use the stadium?

I'm all for the Owls getting their own stadium but as a tax payer I want to see tax funded entertainment venues used as much as possible too.

Correct on all points. That's the argument put forth by the new Philly mayor--that the Eagles haven't lived up to the conditions under which public money was advanced to build the stadium.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Tarps.

When Three Rivers Stadium was being utilized BOTH by the Steelers and the Pirates, there were significant differences between seating requirements for each sport. The Steelers needed a stadium to accommodate at least 60,000 fans. However, the Pirates needed a ball park which would accommodate maybe 25,000 fans.

How was this done. They right sized (reconfigured) the stadium with tarp to fit(Pirates) their needs.

If they didn't then you would see a televised game showing the Pirates with maybe 14,000 fans in a relatively EMPTY(60,0000 plus) stadium.

Pitt can easily reconfigure Heinz Field with Tarp to remove 10,000 seats to reduce stadium attendance to about 56,000 seats(Pitt requirement) which is what Old Pitt Stadium accommodated.

Start with the Upper End Zone bleaches.

Heinz Field (Club Seating etc.) and surrounding amenities(Bars, Restaurants, Hotels, Casino, View etc) are great, the only thing that needs to be done is right size the stadium for Pitt.

Out of town visitors love it. Only negative comments involve perceived attendance issues which would be solved with a right sized stadium.

Significantly less expensive than building a new (bare bones/erector set) stadium accommodating 50,000 fans (used 7 times a year).

Come on AD Barnes, not hard to do.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[eastcoasthoops]

Correct on all points. That's the argument put forth by the new Philly mayor--that the Eagles haven't lived up to the conditions under which public money was advanced to build the stadium.

Well color me shocked that Jeff Lurie would do a douchebaggy thing.