Very good point, and that's definitely something else to consider. I know the fans don't want to hear it, but going in on the next few seasons after this one seems like the more prudent thing to do.
The Buccos
- Thread starter Pittisit4me
- Start date
Very good point, and that's definitely something else to consider. I know the fans don't want to hear it, but going in on the next few seasons after this one seems like the more prudent thing to do.
I also read that the White Sox are open to trading Luis Robert Jr… that makes a lot of sense for both sides.
Dominant starting pitching is what typically gets you through the early rounds of the playoffs. With what we have anything is possible.
After this season, do they have Skenes/Jones for 5 more, or 6? If it’s five, and you are Ben Cherington, do you try to tie them up long-term? Maybe eight years, $140 million? That number ain’t gonna get it done in the next few years, but it might now. Is it a gamble? Sure it is. But, it would save the Pirates a ton of money, which they always like to do. And it would make Skenes/Jones filthy rich now.
Because with this bullpen and these bats, I don't care how good the starting pitching is, we aren't winning a world championship. The hope is that within a couple years, we have some more holes plugged -- and still have Jones, Skenes, and Keller at the top of the pitching line-up.
You can make moves to improve this team while the starting pitching is this good. You're talking about a franchise that hasn't won anything of significance since Jimmy Carter's administration, shutting it down with a wild card birth on the line is idiotic.
Winning counts - you can't baby these guys - you have a chance to go to the playoffs, you don't punt on a season because you're pitch counting.
It is a done deal. It has already been discussed and decided on by management. The only thing we don't know is when they hit the agreed upon number of innings which Pirate management has not yet disclosed.
If winning three division championships in the 90s isn't something of significance in your eyes, then this year's team isn't winning anything significant. Maybe they make the wild card round, maybe win that, but will lose in one of the next two series. They won't win the pennant this year.
It's idiotic to trade a piece that could turn into a contributor a year or two from now for a rent-a-player this year.
WOW...I said significant - no one gives a flip about division championships. And I'll wait until this year's team is either eliminated or headed to the playoffs before I pass judgment.
And who said it has to be a rent a player? You're not precluded from trading for a long term player.
I know they can improve as the year goes on, and I hope they do, but I just see too many warts with this team. Too inconsistent at the plate, too many many bullpen letdowns, not great defense, and bad coaching. Maybe we make improvements in some of those areas but the odds of all of those categories rising to a level good enough to win the National League is probably less than 1%. Coaching might be the area that gives me the least hope with this team.
Yes, it will make the Yankees really mad if Skenes pitchers over 180.....
Yankees to their AAAA team (the Pirates):
"Hey, cool it down there or we're going to vote against this revenue sharing next time."
One middle of the lineup hitter and one decent arm in the bullpen would go a long way in improving their chances. I echo your concern about the coaching...Shelton seems to miss on a lot of elementary things - it's like he doesn't have a feel for the game.
22-year-old Paul Skenes against two former AL MVPs… my goodness:
Funny I was watching the Dodgers broadcast yesterday and the announcers were saying the Pirates would not be a team you want to face in the playoffs in a short series with Jones and Skenes.
I posted on the pay board....I would easily give up Chandler, Temarr Johnson and Henry Davis for him.
It's funny just seeing the battings averages and home runs of the guys in the Dodgers lineup vs our lineup. Reynolds, the centerpiece of our offense, would hit in what spot for them? 6? 7?
yes, quite funny because no one will have to face them in the play-offs..............
Ha, yeah. They are still +680 to make the playoffs on FanDual. Sounds like easy money for some people on this thread. That said, those aren't terrible odds, at all. 2nd and 3rd wild card spots are wide open. I'm sure the Cubs, Padres, Giants...one of them make a big trade. Maybe a team gets hot naturally...but there's no reason the Pirates can't hang around.
right, but there is a reason they won't win , ownership will not change to win, it(winning, getting over a hump, etc,) is not part of the equation for Nutting...
I realize I am blinded by dislike for the lack of respect that ownership/management and their media/propaganda employees have for Pirate fans, but it is not going to happen.
They are millions (but no all that far away) from having an adequate platooner first baseman, an above average fielding shortstop (to go with that good pitching staff), and a better duo behind the plate....but the money will stay with Nutting
That’s why I’m in favor of them going all-in beginning *this* season. This team could easily earn the final Wild card spot and with the starting pitching we now possess, who knows what you can do in a best-of-three (and eventually best-of-five) series. Why not go after a bat like Luis Robert who could provide a much-needed complement to this team?
But you still need to win a best of 7 series to win the NL. And then another best of 7 series to win a world championship.
I laid out reasons above, but I don't see this as a team that can "easily" earn the final wild card spot. I know Nutting and the Bucco fans are all excited at the moment because we beat the Dodgers twice. It is certainly a possibility we get a wild card, but it will not be easy from what I see of this team/set of coaches, and even if you make the post-season, the odds are extremely long of doing anything noteworthy this post-season.
Maybe because Suwinski is from Chicago the White Sox would have unusual interest in him and another relatively minor piece in exchange for Roberts? But I would not be willing to give up much. I'd rather us not give up the next Meadows and Glasnow, yet (speaking of Meadows, what is his deal?). Maybe two years from now I'd get rid of the future and go all-in, but this year isn't the year IMO.
Last edited:
The Bucs were officially robbed of a win today. The home plate umpire called this a passed ball, leading to a Twins run:
Instead of a 4-3 victory, the game was 4-4 after nine and the Twins proceeded to score 7 runs in the 10th.
Instead of a 4-3 victory, the game was 4-4 after nine and the Twins proceeded to score 7 runs in the 10th.
I think you can see why, even though he is 32 and has spent time with several other organizations, and that he first pitched in the majors in 2016, and yet after today still has only pitched 51 major league innings.
If he's not DFA'd tomorrow by the time the team is leaving for St. Louis something is wrong.
That was brutal to watch. He should have left straight for the bus station…don’t even bother to shower.
Wow - can't believe that is not a reviewable play. The other thing I wonder about is did MLB change the rules and only have a home plate umpire. What were the other base umps watching that they didn't see a foul ball?
I didn't see that play, but I was pretty disappointed McCutchen didn't score on that Reynolds double. Might have been out, but it would have taken two good throws.
Of course, I also forget if he eventually scored anyway, ha, so this might be moot.
Right? Not only was there a clear change in direction, but I’m pretty sure you could hear the ball make contact with that bat. We should protest, although it probably wouldn’t do anything.
Even if he is DFA'd, something is wrong. This is why I say, even as well as a bunch of them may play, the Pirates are going nowhere, the fact is there are too many "AAA" players on the roster and in the end ,games like these once every 10 days won't allow them to make the P.O's, IMO. A complete MLB roster they have a shot, but refusing to pay bonafide ML players makes it too hard.
Last edited:
I've said a few times they need a new coaching staff. Shelton seems like a good guy but he lacks the intensity that this team needs in order to turn the corner. He should have blown a fuse after this horrible call. I don't care how much talent the Pirates accumulate, I don't think Shelton is the right guy to lead this team going forward and I'm going to be a skeptic until they make a change.
I thought the exact same thing! Hurdle had his faults, but he would’ve made Lloyd McClendon blush today if he were manger.
Many mid-managers that seem like "good guys "out in the workforce, but in the 45+ years of working various jobs as a laborer, in general they are worthless. They really don't care about anything but making their own jobs easier. No hassles, but in the end, the workers that are conscientious get screwed. Would you be happy to be on a team with no fire, and just happy to be there? These types of managers(not just in baseball) are losers, IMO
