This new guy they got hitting leadoff the last two nights might be pretty good.
The Buccos
- Thread starter Pittisit4me
- Start date
He's not new! That's Andrew McCutchen. He's 37 years old. He used to play here, from 2009 - 2017 (we actually drafted him). Then he was with a few other teams before returning to Pittsburgh last season. Can't believe you've never heard of him. He used to be a pretty good ballplayer.
This is very true. It is in many ways just what we are seeing in college football. Individual leagues are negotiating their TV contracts. In baseball, it is teams.
For the most part, yes. But at least revenue sharing, draft order, and guaranteed money (large market teams get stuck with behemoth contracts) helps levels the playing field a tiny bit. College football is MLB on the Jose Canseco injection regimen.
Here’s a fun game to play before tonight’s game:
In my opinion, it has to be Clemente, Wagner, Stargell, and Kiner… right? Maybe Kiner with Paul Waner?
In my opinion, it has to be Clemente, Wagner, Stargell, and Kiner… right? Maybe Kiner with Paul Waner?
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I'd agree with you but there aren't really any other names that come close to those. Dave Parker might get a sniff.
Not sure how long this will last, but got to at least give credit to Bailey Falter, and to the Bucs for working with him/sticking with him. He comically allowed the first 5 batters he faces this season to score...then has been Tom Glavine since. For some reason, starting LH pitchers do tend to bloom later. This is a 6'4" 27y/o lefty with decent stuff...he might turn into something. I don't mean something like an All-Star, just a capable back of rotation starter, than can go like 11-10 with 4.50 ERA for a few years...that gets you paid in the MLB.
I’d have no problem with him turning into this era’s Francisco Liriano.
Clearly Wagner and Clemente would go up there.
There is one book about the Pirates history that I read, I forget who wrote it, but if I recall correctly, he said the only two players on the Pirates that were the best player in all of baseball for a multi-year period were Wagner and Bonds. Clemente is a legend but he wasn't better than Willie Mays and even some other players of his generation.
ever hear of a guy named Honus Wagner? One of the five inducted into the first baseball hall of fame class (one of three Pirates who were first ballot inductees) ? He came to mind since I saw him on some old baseball card I had in a stack in my basement that I threw out the other day...
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John Cangelosi, Mario Mendoza, Jimmy Anderson and Orestes Destrade. Or "OD" as I called him. Offensive Deficiency. You can convince me to replace him with Doug Frobel.
He’s on my list. That’s awesome that you actually have a card of his- I’d hold onto that forever!
I was hesitant to include Bonds since he spent the majority of his career outside of Pittsburgh, but the argument can definitely be made for him.
obviously if I had said T206 card I most definitely would not hold on to it....I'd take the millions for it and be on my way...
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Oh, and you're just going to ignore Derek Bell?
The Pirates all time top four in WAR is Wagner (by a lot), Clemente, Paul Waner and Arky Vaughan. Stargell is 5th. If you are going to consider Kiner, who played 7-1/2 seasons for the Pirates, then you have to put Bonds, who played 7 seasons, on there ahead of him.
FWIW, Bonds is 7th on the Pirates' WAR list and Kiner is 9th.
You guys are showing your youth and ignorance. I once watched Pie Traynor hit a ball 520 feet and then tell the umpire to just call him out because he was tired and didn't feel like trotting around the bases. Said he'd just hit another one next time.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I once saw Glenn Wilson get thoroughly defeated by a balloon in the outfield. Never saw a grown man struggle so much to do anything.
Good thing the Bucs have Mitch Keller locked up for 5 more years!
I was thinking the same thing. I think they had an idea he would be a #1 or #2 starter in the rotation. I think it has become obvious that he is an average major league starter.
Yes. I was being a bit dramatic for fun, but if Keller is your #3 and Jones & Skenes turn out to be true top of the rotation guys, that is a start to a good rotation. And Keller's salaries are reasonable for a #3 pitcher on a 'real' MLB team....but they are way high for a Pirates #3.
Lol. In fairness to Chapman, the pitch that was hit out was a high fastball just off the outside corner at 102 mph and it was tailing away from the batter. He stayed back on it and didn't try to pull it and got the barrel of the bat on it. When the pitcher is throwing it 102, it doesn't take a whole lot to send it flying the other way. If anything, I'd like to see him keep that pitch down in the zone, instead of up. I was more upset at him for walking the batter that provided the winning margin.
Pirates finally made it home aka "Last place in the central". Back to life back to reality
Yep, appears you guys were right. The latest rebuild is crumbling right before everyone's eyes.
Shelton and his crew need to go. See if a new manager and coaching staff can turn this around?
If not, where do they go from here? Their youth movement is a joke. The cornerstones, Cruz, Davis, Suwinski are off the rails horrible.
Setting records for K's and taking strikes and ineptitude with runners on base or in scoring position. Just horrible.
Such a shame, where there was a glimmer of optimism, just more of the SOS.
Shelton and his crew need to go. See if a new manager and coaching staff can turn this around?
If not, where do they go from here? Their youth movement is a joke. The cornerstones, Cruz, Davis, Suwinski are off the rails horrible.
Setting records for K's and taking strikes and ineptitude with runners on base or in scoring position. Just horrible.
Such a shame, where there was a glimmer of optimism, just more of the SOS.
Again, part of this is the culture. Hitting, success, etc. is contagious. Playing for the Pirates is like playing in AAAA. It's a chill job with zero expectations. You wanna try shortstop at 6'7"? Sure, why not. It's dress rehearsal.
The veterans we bring in are fat asses in the denouement of their career just collecting a paycheck and enjoying the postgame spread. It's a completely rotted out franchise.
Quote, The Clown.
The veterans we bring in are fat asses in the denouement of their career just collecting a paycheck and enjoying the postgame spread. It's a completely rotted out franchise.
Quote, The Clown.
Too bad Billy Martin is dead. Exactly what this crew needs.
And OK, I deserved that...........
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Well, thanks to the diluted playoff model, still only 2.5 games out. LOL
I truly believe there is a karma of not trying to win, and well.....it just permeates through every thing they do. But my god, you got to get rid of the guys (coaches) on MLB level and replace them with someone else, anyone.
Even Leyland would pitch a good fit every once in a while, turn over post game meal tables regularly, get in players faces, and kick a$$ when necessary.
Shelton manages like Mister Rogers, barely has a pulse, and everything is lollipops and roses. Won't make any changes in the face of a horribly obvious crisis.
If ever a crew needed "motivation" it is this one. They are far too complacent and acceptable at sucking.
Suwinski's face is like "Gee, wonder what is on Netflix when I get back to the room" after he inevitably strikes out.
Cutch isn't a leader when he can't produce. There is no leader on this team, or in the dugout. They are a rudderless ship.
Shelton manages like Mister Rogers, barely has a pulse, and everything is lollipops and roses. Won't make any changes in the face of a horribly obvious crisis.
If ever a crew needed "motivation" it is this one. They are far too complacent and acceptable at sucking.
Suwinski's face is like "Gee, wonder what is on Netflix when I get back to the room" after he inevitably strikes out.
Cutch isn't a leader when he can't produce. There is no leader on this team, or in the dugout. They are a rudderless ship.
They've tried the military-like manager thing before. It doesn't matter what you do when you're this cheap. I doubt the better coaches and managers want to step into this dead end job. I think Hurdle was mostly still drunk from his younger years for the duration of his stint.
They can flip tables all they want, but the issue is just that they don't have talent on offense. With a lot of the pitchers - even when they aren't doing as well - you can see they have 'stuff' like Bednar, Chapman, Jones, Keller, Perez, etc...those are above average big league pitchers.
But on offense, there is no stars or even one star. Reynolds and Hayes are the only legit above MLB hitters on the team right now. And they are not stars, they are just the best the Pirates have. They bat 1-2 a lot nights. On a legit playoff team, Reynolds bats like 6th and Hayes bats like 8th (if he even plays because usually a playoff team doesn't have such a weak bat at 3B, but let's suppose they do because they are strong elsewhere). And I'm not knocking those guys, because they are the best ones on the team. Real pros.
A bunch of the rest (Tellez, Suwinski, Triolo, Olivares, etc) are just fringe MLB players who individually could each be like the last guy on the bench for a MLB team, but here they are regular starters. McCutchen unfortunately is well past his prime, respecting that he once was a real star at least. Taylor is overall a real MLB player, but also past his prime and is anyway a career .239 hitter, he's never been a heart of the lineup guy, just a defensive specialist who can chip in some offense in his day.
So, it may get a little better at times, when a few guys get hot at the same time, but the reality is this lineup is just devoid of hitting talent.
But on offense, there is no stars or even one star. Reynolds and Hayes are the only legit above MLB hitters on the team right now. And they are not stars, they are just the best the Pirates have. They bat 1-2 a lot nights. On a legit playoff team, Reynolds bats like 6th and Hayes bats like 8th (if he even plays because usually a playoff team doesn't have such a weak bat at 3B, but let's suppose they do because they are strong elsewhere). And I'm not knocking those guys, because they are the best ones on the team. Real pros.
A bunch of the rest (Tellez, Suwinski, Triolo, Olivares, etc) are just fringe MLB players who individually could each be like the last guy on the bench for a MLB team, but here they are regular starters. McCutchen unfortunately is well past his prime, respecting that he once was a real star at least. Taylor is overall a real MLB player, but also past his prime and is anyway a career .239 hitter, he's never been a heart of the lineup guy, just a defensive specialist who can chip in some offense in his day.
So, it may get a little better at times, when a few guys get hot at the same time, but the reality is this lineup is just devoid of hitting talent.
PItching fits and turning tables may not help, but at least it would make some of these guys less smug and content.
Plus, next time Tollez lectured the fans, I'd send him packing!
I'd bring up Peguero and Gonzalez and start them at SS and 2B and Bae in CF immediately, and send Davis down when Grandahl is ready.
Also, it's time for Skenes. He has nothing more to prove at AAA.
Might be rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, but at least it would be something.
Plus, next time Tollez lectured the fans, I'd send him packing!
I'd bring up Peguero and Gonzalez and start them at SS and 2B and Bae in CF immediately, and send Davis down when Grandahl is ready.
Also, it's time for Skenes. He has nothing more to prove at AAA.
Might be rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, but at least it would be something.
Triolo... bench
Cruz... 1st base (tough shit, bud)
Davis.... AAA
Suwinski... AAA
Tellez.... Cut
Piguero... SS
Gonzalez.... 2B
Guess that leaves Bae as starting in the OF
Cruz... 1st base (tough shit, bud)
Davis.... AAA
Suwinski... AAA
Tellez.... Cut
Piguero... SS
Gonzalez.... 2B
Guess that leaves Bae as starting in the OF
Actually better for Cruz in RF!
Then the Gregory Polanco Memory Tour would be complete.
Connor Joe at 1B would work.
The arrogance of Cruz to continue to stumble around at SS and for the PIrates to let him get away with it is laughable.
Either get out in RF or send him packing. Some stats nerd would overpay for that exit velocity when he hits the ball once every 50 at bats!
He seems to be in love with the idea of casually fielding a ball, clutching it a few times, and zinging it 115mph to first base to beat the runner by about six inches. If he moves to right field, you have to figure there will be an adjustment period for him to figure out the last possible second he can wait until before he actually throws home. Have to show that arm off.
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