Tomlin Extended 3 Years

[HailToPitt725]

I think it's a bit weak to basically excuse the HC for 5 straight years of failure.

But anyway, even assuming that you can let Tomlin off the hook for things like poor team talent (isn't it the coach's job to make the team better?), then you have to set the bar pretty high this year. The OL has been rebuilt with stud 1st round OTs, a 2nd round C, and big time free agent OGs. Tomlin got a veteran, Super Bowl winner at QB.

No more excuses. A playoff win or Tomlin must go. That's the only fair standard for 2024.

I felt the same with Cowher while they retooled the roster from the late 90s until 2001. He didn’t suddenly forget how to coach and then become a great one once again. It’s the same with Tomlin; he didn’t forget how to coach the past five seasons. I agree that the bar is set high in 2024, and I honestly expect him to reach it.

As for your last sentence: it’s not “a playoff with or Tomlin” must go in 2024, but I certainly feel like he needs to win a Super Bowl between now and the end of his extension. If not, as Chuck Noll would put it, it’s time to get on with his life’s work.

 

[BreakingPitt]

I have no doubt about this either , when this happens and the Steelers don't win a playoff game , then who will be to blame ?

MSN

 

[pittdan77]

I felt the same with Cowher while they retooled the roster from the late 90s until 2001. He didn’t suddenly forget how to coach and then become a great one once again.

There's a huge difference between Cowher's "retooling" and what we're seeing. It was really only two seasons of being down and if the playoffs were bigger, he only would have missed the postseason twice in that span. But at least he won playoff games when he got there. I mean, Bill Cowher won a dozen playoff games with the likes of Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Neil O'Donnell, and Mike Tomczak for most of his career. Tomlin enjoyed having a HOF caliber QB for most of his career and won five of his eight playoff games in his first four seasons. Three playoff wins in 11 years isn't anywhere close to the same thing.

 

[Burgh15]

There's a huge difference between Cowher's "retooling" and what we're seeing. It was really only two seasons of being down and if the playoffs were bigger, he only would have missed the postseason twice in that span. But at least he won playoff games when he got there. I mean, Bill Cowher won a dozen playoff games with the likes of Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, Neil O'Donnell, and Mike Tomczak for most of his career. Tomlin enjoyed having a HOF caliber QB for most of his career and won five of his eight playoff games in his first four seasons. Three playoff wins in 11 years isn't anywhere close to the same thing.

Cowher won a playoff game in 8 of 15 seasons and led the Steelers to 6 AFC championship game appearances. Tomlin won a playoff game in 4 of 17 seasons (7 of 11 one and dones in the playoffs) and led the Steelers to 3 AFC Championship game appearances.

Tomlin is a good coach, however it's impossible to ignore his lack of success in the playoffs. I agree, to an extent, the lack of quality coaching on the offensive side has contributed to this. The lack of a coaching tree is glaring simply because no one is seeing the Steelers as overachieving or doing anything innovative. Coaches don't even need to succeed if they get hired as a head coach, it just represents a team others want to model after.

 

[CJsE]

I hear this rebuttal all the time and I don't buy it.

Tomlin has been here for 15 years. He's a legend. If he needed more money for coaches, he could get it.

Second, Tomlin makes at least $12.5 million per year. He's top 5 in the NFL. The Steelers have no problem paying him. If he had a resource problem, he could take a minor pay cut and afford any number of coaches. Matt LaFleur, Zac Taylor, and Mike McCarthy are all good coaches and all make $5 million or less per year. If Rooney told Tomlin "we only have $15 million for coaches" and then Tomlin takes more than 80% of that for himself, then that's a problem of his own making.

Yeah because Matt LaFleur and Zac Taylor, two coaches that have been HC for 5 years are comparable coaches in terms of tenure and prestige as a coach that is likely already a lock for the HOF.

Zac Taylor, a guy that couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag before landing the #1 Draft Pick at QB, is on par with Tomlin? A pick that he got because he won 6 total games in this first 2 seasons in Cincinnati.

Mike McCarthy gets paid what does because literally no one wanted him. He couldn't even land the Jets job. THE JETS. A job he lost to this guy.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Yeah because Matt LaFleur and Zac Taylor, two coaches that have been HC for 5 years are comparable coaches in terms of tenure and prestige as a coach that is likely already a lock for the HOF.

Zac Taylor, a guy that couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag before landing the #1 Draft Pick at QB, is on par with Tomlin? A pick that he got because he won 6 total games in this first 2 seasons in Cincinnati.

Mike McCarthy gets paid what does because literally no one wanted him. He couldn't even land the Jets job. THE JETS. A job he lost to this guy.

Lmao, wut? What are you smoking? Mike McCarthy has won 12 games for 3 straight years. He won the division 2 of the last 3. He also literally beat Tomlin in the Super Bowl. He is a good coach.

And coaching contracts get renegotiated all the time. Kevin Stefanski, who won Coach of the Year just last year, is the least paid coach in the league. Taylor went to a Super Bowl and was a 4th down stop away from winning just two years ago. Matt LaFleur took a 1st year starter into the playoffs and even won a game there. Any of those guys could get more money and would get comparable interest as to Tomlin on the open market. They make $5 million not because they're bad coaches but because they're not egomaniacs who demand $12 million while tying up the budget for the rest of their staff.

Ya'll Tomlin cultists need to get real. Stop living in the past. You may not be aware of this, but a lot of things have happened in the NFL since 2009!

 

[PittPharm2002]

Cowher won a playoff game in 8 of 15 seasons and led the Steelers to 6 AFC championship game appearances. Tomlin won a playoff game in 4 of 17 seasons (7 of 11 one and dones in the playoffs) and led the Steelers to 3 AFC Championship game appearances.

Tomlin is a good coach, however it's impossible to ignore his lack of success in the playoffs. I agree, to an extent, the lack of quality coaching on the offensive side has contributed to this. The lack of a coaching tree is glaring simply because no one is seeing the Steelers as overachieving or doing anything innovative. Coaches don't even need to succeed if they get hired as a head coach, it just represents a team others want to model after.

They each have 1 ring and 1 Super Bowl runner up
The rest doesn’t matter

 

[PittPharm2002]

Lmao, wut? What are you smoking? Mike McCarthy has won 12 games for 3 straight years. He won the division 2 of the last 3. He also literally beat Tomlin in the Super Bowl. He is a good coach.

And coaching contracts get renegotiated all the time. Kevin Stefanski, who won Coach of the Year just last year, is the least paid coach in the league. Taylor went to a Super Bowl and was a 4th down stop away from winning just two years ago. Matt LaFleur took a 1st year starter into the playoffs and even won a game there. Any of those guys could get more money and would get comparable interest as to Tomlin on the open market. They make $5 million not because they're bad coaches but because they're not egomaniacs who demand $12 million while tying up the budget for the rest of their staff.

Ya'll Tomlin cultists need to get real. Stop living in the past. You may not be aware of this, but a lot of things have happened in the NFL since 2009!

Who’s the cultist , here ?
You’re an emotional wreck over this
My life is literally unchanged by who the coach is

 

[303vND]

They each have 1 ring and 1 Super Bowl runner up
The rest doesn’t matter

One had a franchise quarterback for three years and one had a franchise quarterback for over a decade. Context matters.

 

[CJsE]

Lmao, wut? What are you smoking? Mike McCarthy has won 12 games for 3 straight years. He won the division 2 of the last 3. He also literally beat Tomlin in the Super Bowl. He is a good coach.

And coaching contracts get renegotiated all the time. Kevin Stefanski, who won Coach of the Year just last year, is the least paid coach in the league. Taylor went to a Super Bowl and was a 4th down stop away from winning just two years ago. Matt LaFleur took a 1st year starter into the playoffs and even won a game there. Any of those guys could get more money and would get comparable interest as to Tomlin on the open market. They make $5 million not because they're bad coaches but because they're not egomaniacs who demand $12 million while tying up the budget for the rest of their staff.

Ya'll Tomlin cultists need to get real. Stop living in the past. You may not be aware of this, but a lot of things have happened in the NFL since 2009!

You are deluded. Other than McCarthy those guys you named are on their first or second contracts, that's why they're low. It has nothing to do with them being a humble Johnny Everyman. It has everything to do with them being young and inexperienced when signed. They will all be cashing in over the next few seasons if they have continued success.

Zac Taylor had two terrible seasons calling an offense in the NFL, that's why he was hired so cheap. After his Super Bowl appearance, he immediately renogiated his salary and got like a 70% pay hike. If he makes the playoffs (Instead of going 1-5 and finishing dead last in the division.) again next year, guess what's going to happen? He's going to renegotiate and probably get another couple million per year.

Kevan Stefanski, come on say it with me, got his job after only a single year calling plays in the NFL. That's why he signed for so cheap. He did well so guess what he did this week? HE SIGNED A CONTRACT EXTENSION. The terms haven't been released yet as far as I can see, but I wonder if he was such a "non-egomaniac" that he asked for less money so that he could spread it around to his assistant?

Matt LaFleur had one season calling an offense in the NFL. That's why they got him for $5 million. His contract is up next year, think he's going to ask for a raise if he wins 9-10+ games this year?

Now Mike McCarthy. I don't care what he's done the past couple of seasons, that has nothing to do with the job market when he signed the contract. He interviewed or had meetings with the Browns and Jets, two teams known for their success, both teams passed on him. Before he got fired by the Packers he was consistently a top-10 paid Head Coach (Making roughly what Tomlin was and often more than Tomlin). Was he an egomaniac then and just forgot about it?

 

[PittPharm2002]

One had a franchise quarterback for three years and one had a franchise quarterback for over a decade. Context matters

I’ll note the “context” on their statues in Canton

I’m fairly sure you don’t want to compare HOF members on teams do you?
Because there are 6 from his teams already in .
Context

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Meanwhile, it's hilarious that any coach who has won a single championship would even sniff the Hall of Fame. Neither Cowher nor Tomlin have any business being in it.

 

[Burgh15]

They each have 1 ring and 1 Super Bowl runner up
The rest doesn’t matter

Sure it does. By no means a direct comparison, but Pitt playing in the Peach Bowl a few years ago was a much more exciting year than landing in the Motor City Bowl. Winning in the playoffs matter.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Misevaluated ?
The guy who was a free agent and got zero interest the first time so he resigned - and then signed to be a backup in Tennessee on a 1 year deal ?!?
You’re delusional

Actually the indictment is on Colbert and Tomlin that they reportedly had "a 1st rd grade" on Mason Rudolph. Ummmmm....yeah.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Meanwhile, it's hilarious that any coach who has won a single championship would even sniff the Hall of Fame. Neither Cowher nor Tomlin have any business being in it.

I dunno. Cowher did really well for 90% of his career having journeymen at QB.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Actually the indictment is on Colbert and Tomlin that they reportedly had "a 1st rd grade" on Mason Rudolph. Ummmmm....yeah.

Hey, come on now, Rudolph might be good enough to be second string with the Titans this season.

I mean maybe not, but maybe he will be.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I dunno. Cowher did really well for 90% of his career having journeymen at QB.

A 62.3% winning percentage and 12-9 postseason record, including one championship, should not be a Hall of Fame resume for a coach. The NFL has established some pretty underwhelming standards. There needs to be some delineation between really good and actually worthy of being enshrined. In my opinion, there shouldn't be many coaches in it.

 

[CJsE]

A 62.3% winning percentage and 12-9 postseason record, including one championship, should not be a Hall of Fame resume for a coach. The NFL has established some pretty underwhelming standards. There needs to be some delineation between really good and actually worthy of being enshrined. In my opinion, there shouldn't be many coaches in it.

Let’s put it in some perspective.

There have been more than 500 NFL head coaches.
Tomlin is 9th in wins
13th in games coached
10th in years making the playoffs
*cough* 22nd *cough* in playoff wins
One of 21 coaches to multiple Super Bowls
One of 35 coaches to win a Super Bowl
He’s one of the longest tenured coaches with a single team in NFL history.
He’s never had a losing season.

I’d never argue that he’s the best coach of all time or anything close, but he’s clearly put together a resume better than 97-98% of his peers. If top 3% at your position of all time isn’t HOF worthy then I don’t know what is. For comparison about 2% of players makes it.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Let’s put it in some perspective.

There have been more than 500 NFL head coaches.
Tomlin is 9th in wins
13th in games coached
10th in years making the playoffs
*cough* 22nd *cough* in playoff wins
One of 21 coaches to multiple Super Bowls
One of 35 coaches to win a Super Bowl
He’s one of the longest tenured coaches with a single team in NFL history.
He’s never had a losing season.

I’d never argue that he’s the best coach of all time or anything close, but he’s clearly put together a resume better than 97-98% of his peers. If top 3% at your position of all time isn’t HOF worthy then I don’t know what is. For comparison about 2% of players makes it.

Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco are in the top 20 for QB wins. So what? You can rack up some pretty impressive quantitative stats if you do it long enough.

Tomlin has a good resume. But it's far from special. Or, should I say, he's far from a special coach. Not suggesting he's awful; I just don't think many coaches should make it to begin with.

 

[303vND]

I’ll note the “context” on their statues in Canton

I’m fairly sure you don’t want to compare HOF members on teams do you?
Because there are 6 from his teams already in .
Context

What are you talking about - you mentioned Super Bowl wins and loses? I noted one coach had a franchise QB for three years and one coach had a franchise for QB for over a decade...what does the HOF have to do with your previous post?

 

[bayardstreet]

Tomlin’s been head coach for 17 years and hasn’t seen any of his coordinators get head coaching positions. Thats pretty bad. You would think that a few owners would have picked off a Tomlin assistant during these 17 years to be a head coach.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

On the 1995 Steelers team, who were the Noll holdovers?

Woodson - missed almost the entire season

Lloyd

Dawson

Lake

O'Donnell

Jackson

were there any other starters from the Noll era?

 

[pittbb80]

How much of a budget is Tomlin getting for assistant coaches? Genius OC's don't come cheap while the likes of Canada do, this is something that's on the person writing the checks and that's not Tomli

lol. Nothing is ever Mediocre Mikes fault. Rooney made him keep the inept Canada

So a coach who is fawned over by all the media is powerless to demand more money for better coordinators. Rooney stuck him with the likes of Randy Fichtner, Butler and Canada.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Meanwhile, it's hilarious that any coach who has won a single championship would even sniff the Hall of Fame. Neither Cowher nor Tomlin have any business being in it.

It’s almost like the unprecedented no losing and all the wins matter

lol. Nothing is ever Mediocre Mikes fault. Rooney made him keep the inept Canada

So a coach who is fawned over by all the media is powerless to demand more money for better coordinators. Rooney stuck him with the likes of Randy Fichtner, Butler and Canada.

Correct
Ownership is notoriously stingy
I literally detailed this comparing coaching staff sizes to other division teams and the nfl

Ya just don’t like it because it ruins your vibes only analysis

 

[PittPharm2002]

Tomlin’s been head coach for 17 years and hasn’t seen any of his coordinators get head coaching positions. Thats pretty bad. You would think that a few owners would have picked off a Tomlin assistant during these 17 years to be a head coach.

If you want to ignore the one who has a Super Bowl ring

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

It’s almost like the unprecedented no losing and all the wins matter

Where do you think we should put the no losing trophy? I'm thinking we can scrap one of the Lombardis and use the proceeds to give Mike T. a HOF bonus, in addition to making space for it.

Heard the new no losing trophy is pretty phat: two giant 8-balls connected with a bar so it looks like it says "8-8."

 

[PittPharm2002]

Where do you think we should put the no losing trophy? I'm thinking we can scrap one of the Lombardis and use the proceeds to give Mike T. a HOF bonus, in addition to making space for it.

Heard the new no losing trophy is pretty phat: two giant 8-balls connected with a bar so it looks like it says "8-8."

I know it hurts your feelings to admit he’s going to Canton
But he’s a helluva lot more similar to Don Shula than you’d like to admit

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I know it hurts your feelings to admit he’s going to Canton
But he’s a helluva lot more similar to Don Shula than you’d like to admit

No, I don't really care. In fact, I like seeing guys associated with my team make it. But guys like Cowher and Tomlin just aren't special enough. They should be much more selective with which coaches get in. You should have to change the game in some way and/or win multiple championships.

 

[happjack]

No, I don't really care. In fact, I like seeing guys associated with my team make it. But guys like Cowher and Tomlin just aren't special enough. They should be much more selective with which coaches get in. You should have to change the game in some way and/or win multiple championships.

If George Allen, Don Coryell and Dick Vermeil are in the HOF then Cowher and Tomlin should be, hell if John Madden is in for coaching then Cowher and Tomlin should be.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

If George Allen, Don Coryell and Dick Vermeil are in the HOF then Cowher and Tomlin should be, hell if John Madden is in for coaching then Cowher and Tomlin should be.

I'm not disagreeing with the precedent that has been set as much as I'm saying I wish it hadn't been. Very few coaches are going to make a significant difference beyond the players they have to work with (and yeah - some of them play a big part in what players they have to work with, so it's not all cut and dry).

Pretty sure Cowher didn't even want to draft Ben, did he? And then with Tomlin, he inherited a Super Bowl roster and HOF QB, which allowed him to never have to endure a full-throttle rebuild. Just one more reason why the no losing seasons thing is a joke: how many new coaches have taken over a roster that just went 2-14 or something? There's a reason the guy before him got fired. Were they supposed to wave a magic wand and somehow go 9-7 their first year with that level of talent?

I just think you should either have to oversee some type of dynasty or win and few championships while changing how the game is played, like a Bill Walsh.

 

[303vND]

No, I don't really care. In fact, I like seeing guys associated with my team make it. But guys like Cowher and Tomlin just aren't special enough. They should be much more selective with which coaches get in. You should have to change the game in some way and/or win multiple championships.

Cowher changed the game, he implemented the zone-blitz and had to overcome losing assistants because they were good and got prompted. Tomlin hasn't implemented anything innovative and has a coaching tree that looks like a telephone pole.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Cowher changed the game, he implemented the zone-blitz and had to overcome losing assistants because they were good and got prompted. Tomlin hasn't implemented anything innovative and has a coaching tree that looks like a telephone pole.

He doesn't have multiple championships, though. I seem to recall an awful lot of bitching in this town about Cowher. And it might have been worse than it is about Tomlin now, because he didn't get a championship until the end whereas Tomlin has almost always had one to point to.

 

[pittdan77]

A 62.3% winning percentage and 12-9 postseason record, including one championship, should not be a Hall of Fame resume for a coach. The NFL has established some pretty underwhelming standards. There needs to be some delineation between really good and actually worthy of being enshrined. In my opinion, there shouldn't be many coaches in it.

George Seifert has a better resume than that and nobody is clamoring that he is being unfairly left out of the HOF. I think Cowher got in because he's a TV personality. Tomlin probably gets in just because it seems that modern coaches get in just for hanging around a long time. The longer seasons and huge playoff pools really skew the numbers, too.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

George Seifert has a better resume than that and nobody is clamoring that he is being unfairly left out of the HOF. I think Cowher got in because he's a TV personality. Tomlin probably gets in just because it seems that modern coaches get in just for hanging around a long time. The longer seasons and huge playoff pools really skew the numbers, too.

I think being associated with certain franchises also helps, and the Steelers are definitely one of them.

 

[303vND]

He doesn't have multiple championships, though. I seem to recall an awful lot of bitching in this town about Cowher. And it might have been worse than it is about Tomlin now, because he didn't get a championship until the end whereas Tomlin has almost always had one to point to.

And Tomlin never had to rebuild his team nor his coaching staff until recently - and we've seen how that's gone. Secondly, Cowher didn't walk into a team that was two seasons removed from a Super Bowl and was loaded on defense, oh....and with a FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK. Like I said in a previous post - context matters.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Let’s put it in some perspective.

There have been more than 500 NFL head coaches.
Tomlin is 9th in wins
13th in games coached
10th in years making the playoffs
*cough* 22nd *cough* in playoff wins
One of 21 coaches to multiple Super Bowls
One of 35 coaches to win a Super Bowl
He’s one of the longest tenured coaches with a single team in NFL history.
He’s never had a losing season.

I’d never argue that he’s the best coach of all time or anything close, but he’s clearly put together a resume better than 97-98% of his peers. If top 3% at your position of all time isn’t HOF worthy then I don’t know what is. For comparison about 2% of players makes it.

Ok so by your own hand picked stats:

- Tomlin wins slightly more than 50% of the games he coached (big deal? is that supposed to be great?)
- He wins playoff games at a rate WELL BELOW the amount of playoff games he coached (that's our whole point! he's not delivering where it really matters.)

You've just proven our point. Tomlin is fine. He's a good coach. But his merits don't put him above criticism. His record suggests that he's a volume-compiler who had a few special years. And now that years appear to be firmly in the rearview mirror, in some respects by nearly 10 years.

To me, Tomlin is like the Frank Gore of coaches. Or maybe Jerome Bettis. Sure he's top 5 or top 10 if you look at the raw data, but once you start drilling down, especially in recent years, it's pretty easy to make an argument that he's lost his fastball at best. I mean he's 23rd all time in win rate but 65th all time in playoff win rate. Below some guys who are seen as notorious chokers like Mike McCarthy and Jeff Fisher. He's not only getting extensions but he's getting pay raises for stuff that happened 3 Presidents ago.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Who’s the cultist , here ?
You’re an emotional wreck over this
My life is literally unchanged by who the coach is

Yes, you're so cool and uninvested in this topic that you're spending your time responding to a post on the internet by a random stranger by saying how little you care.

 

[pittbb80]

It’s almost like the unprecedented no losing and all the wins matter

Correct
Ownership is notoriously stingy
I literally detailed this comparing coaching staff sizes to other division teams and the nfl

Ya just don’t like it because it ruins your vibes only analysis

Poor mediocre Mike. The coach so incredibly talented and in demand that he can’t get his ownership to give him the budget to hire good coaches but yet signs an extension with said cheap ownership.

You’re reaching new levels of stupid. Congrats

 

[pittbb80]

Cowher changed the game, he implemented the zone-blitz and had to overcome losing assistants because they were good and got prompted. Tomlin hasn't implemented anything innovative and has a coaching tree that looks like a telephone pole.

Funny how cowher and noll were given enough money to hire good assitants but mediocre Mike hasn’t. Lol

 

[CJsE]

Ok so by your own hand picked stats:

- Tomlin wins slightly more than 50% of the games he coached (big deal? is that supposed to be great?)
- He wins playoff games at a rate WELL BELOW the amount of playoff games he coached (that's our whole point! he's not delivering where it really matters.)

You've just proven our point. Tomlin is fine. He's a good coach. But his merits don't put him above criticism. His record suggests that he's a volume-compiler who had a few special years. And now that years appear to be firmly in the rearview mirror, in some respects by nearly 10 years.

To me, Tomlin is like the Frank Gore of coaches. Or maybe Jerome Bettis. Sure he's top 5 or top 10 if you look at the raw data, but once you start drilling down, especially in recent years, it's pretty easy to make an argument that he's lost his fastball at best. I mean he's 23rd all time in win rate but 65th all time in playoff win rate. Below some guys who are seen as notorious chokers like Mike McCarthy and Jeff Fisher. He's not only getting extensions but he's getting pay raises for stuff that happened 3 Presidents ago.

I would never argue that Tomlin is a top 10 coach all time, but I do believe that he is HOF worthy based on his resume. Does he have a top 20 resume? Absolutely.

I'm a Tomlin proponent but I didn't think he should have received an extension, unless they plan on trading him for some draft picks. I think the Steelers should have required him to at least make the Divisional playoffs, whether that's by getting a bye or by winning a Wildcard. Like Andy Reid, a change of scenery would likely be best for both parties (depending on how how you look at the Eagles past 11 seasons compared to Reid's time there).

Slightly more than half his games? Of the 70 Head coaches that have 10 years experience, he's 12th in winning percentage and seven of those were before free agency when sustaining success was easier because teams could hold onto all their best players.