Underwhelmed by our commits

[cashisking884]

Yea. Im not sure the going rate. How much do Bama and OSU backups make? My guess is that these blue chippers are brought in on very expensive 1 year deals but then it drops significantly in Year 2 if they dont crack the starting lineup. I dont know that for sure but I dont see how Bama can pay 85 guys a minimum of 500K. So, yea, I think Pitt needs to focus on recruiting the reserves from Bama and OSU type schools. And yes, I think Pitt and schools like it need a GM position.

The backups that those schools see as being future pieces, I’m sure make and keep making a bunch.

If you came into Alabama as a hot shot recruit and you are transferring early, chances are it’s because Bama pushed you out. And Bama pushed you out because they saw very early that you were a bust or it was going to take too long before you actually got good, if ever, to justify paying you that much for what is essentially developmental years.

How much value is there in then paying for that if you’re Pitt? “The big time programs had him and threw him away. And so we should take him because they are obviously wrong and he will be the next Jordan Addison for us.”

You’re basically giving up on ever fielding a team with high upside talent and so could produce a special season. A 2021 type team.
Because at best the argument is, “well, even if they aren’t Bama good. They are an upgrade at Pitt.” But special seasons require having a roster that has players on it that are Bama good.

 

[cashisking884]

Also, if high school talent evaluation is a crapshoot, what is taking players who have been in college and so have been evaluated by a college coaching staff, but you yourself as a staff haven’t seen that player? They are a mystery to you. What are you as a staff going off of in taking that buried depth chart backup?

If Holstein was a crapshoot coming out high school, what is he coming from Alabama as their 4th string QB? How is not even more a crapshoot now?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

The backups that those schools see as being future pieces, I’m sure make and keep making a bunch.

If you came into Alabama as a hot shot recruit and you are transferring early, chances are it’s because Bama pushed you out. And Bama pushed you out because they saw very early that you were a bust or it was going to take too long before you actually got good, if ever, to justify paying you that much for what is essentially developmental years.

How much value is there in then paying for that if you’re Pitt? “The big time programs had him and threw him away. And so we should take him because they are obviously wrong and he will be the next Jordan Addison for us.”

You’re basically giving up on ever fielding a team with high upside talent and so could produce a special season. A 2021 type team.
Because at best the argument is, “well, even if they aren’t Bama good. They are an upgrade at Pitt.” But special seasons require having a roster that has players on it that are Bama good.

Yeah, the premise makes sense in general. If we field a team of Kylan Johnsons and Donovan McMillons, theoretically we could be "ACC good" but not "SEC good" because we'd have a team of guys who they deemed not good enough for them.

But I think there is at least some nuance to it. For one, it's not baseball so there will always be a "system fit" element. And then I think a lot of the guys would leave due to impatience rather than being pushed out.

But, at the end of the day, we'll never build a team from solely this method so it's a moot point. It's about finding a very good quarterback, a handful of other special pieces, and then filling out the rest of the lineup with guys who are mostly solid. This method is mostly going to be used to do the latter.

Having said that, until things change a bit in college football, we're simply not going to have a team that is nationally good anyway. So we need to schedule lightly and focus on beating the Dukes and Boston Colleges of the world.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

The backups that those schools see as being future pieces, I’m sure make and keep making a bunch.

If you came into Alabama as a hot shot recruit and you are transferring early, chances are it’s because Bama pushed you out. And Bama pushed you out because they saw very early that you were a bust or it was going to take too long before you actually got good, if ever, to justify paying you that much for what is essentially developmental years.

How much value is there in then paying for that if you’re Pitt? “The big time programs had him and threw him away. And so we should take him because they are obviously wrong and he will be the next Jordan Addison for us.”

You’re basically giving up on ever fielding a team with high upside talent and so could produce a special season. A 2021 type team.
Because at best the argument is, “well, even if they aren’t Bama good. They are an upgrade at Pitt.” But special seasons require having a roster that has players on it that are Bama good.

hmm, disagree with you on this one. you can have a special team, run thru the ACC with backup or 3rd string ohio state/alabama caliber players. those rosters are soo stacked it's ridiculous. i think guys like Priestley and the running back (Forget his name) were like 5th or 6th on their depth charts and they came in immediately and played well at pitt..

brandon miree wasnt even on the bama depth chart and he came here and was our best running back.

you dont have to fill your whole roster with them but recruit and develop and fill in some holes with those caliber of players and that will get you to the top of the acc in a hurry..

 

[pittdan77]

The best was that dude who committed to us and then flipped to UNC. He kept tweeting all these offers (like Alabama and whatnot), and they were getting listed on his recruiting profile. But then Peak something like, "Uh, so I talked to the Rivals guys at such and such, and they never even heard of this dude."


Lol, he was a straight 2-starish kid who built his own recruiting profile, basically.

Edit, found his profile. Michigan, Florida State, Miami, Penn State, Tennessee, Nebraska, Texas... lol, pretty sure it's all BS.

Kids are pretty much responsible for their own recruiting profiles and can say and do as they like. The services just pick up on things they post and I don't think they necessarily vet them that much. The problem with recruiting is that so much of it is based on Hudl videos and direct contact with coaches, via email. How deeply coaches go beyond that depends on how much they can spend to recruit.

 

[cashisking884]

hmm, disagree with you on this one. you can have a special team, run thru the ACC with backup or 3rd string ohio state/alabama caliber players. those rosters are soo stacked it's ridiculous. i think guys like Priestley and the running back (Forget his name) were like 5th or 6th on their depth charts and they came in immediately and played well at pitt..

brandon miree wasnt even on the bama depth chart and he came here and was our best running back.

you dont have to fill your whole roster with them but recruit and develop and fill in some holes with those caliber of players and that will get you to the top of the acc in a hurry..

Maybe, if the ACC stays stagnate and no teams ever get better.

But Brandon Miree wasn’t Kenny Pickett or Jordan Addison.

The Bama castaways don’t end up becoming those guys.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Maybe, if the ACC stays stagnate and no teams ever get better.

But Brandon Miree wasn’t Kenny Pickett or Jordan Addison.

The Bama castaways don’t end up becoming those guys.

ok, if you are looking for a program catalyst, someone to build your roster around, then yes, you probably arent going to find those types in the portal. i agree with you there.

just saying, it takes more than one person to make your roster and you can find those guys on the tOSU / Bama depth charts, guys that got recruited over or buried.

 

[joeydavid]

Not one to be truly excited about.

Competing offers for the most part a bunch of nobody schools.

Only reinforces my prediction this will be Narduzzis last year.

No excitement whatsoever. The new world of CFB sucks

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[cashisking884]

ok, if you are looking for a program catalyst, someone to build your roster around, then yes, you probably arent going to find those types in the portal. i agree with you there.

just saying, it takes more than one person to make your roster and you can find those guys on the tOSU / Bama depth charts, guys that got recruited over or buried.

Yeah. And I’ve acknowledged that this approach probably does raise the floor.

But it limits your ceiling, because you’re choosing from guys that have already been at college and have been passed over by special players, and probably just good to really good players.

So those guys probably aren’t the type of guys that create 10 win seasons.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

ok, if you are looking for a program catalyst, someone to build your roster around, then yes, you probably arent going to find those types in the portal. i agree with you there.

just saying, it takes more than one person to make your roster and you can find those guys on the tOSU / Bama depth charts, guys that got recruited over or buried.

Yeah, the proof is mostly in the pudding.

John Petrishen
Dwayne Hendrix
Nate Peterman
Max Browne
Kedon Slovis
Brandon Hodges
Nolan Ulizio
Ryan Jacoby
Bub Means (LT by way of Tennessee)
Kylan Johnson
Derrick Davis
Donovan McMillon
Dejean Reynolds
Ricky Town
Phil Jurkovec (BC by way of ND)
Shayne Simon
C'Bo Flemister
Lucas Krull
Etc.

That's about what you're going to get. They probably average out to being something slightly above serviceable. Maybe even a bit above that.

But if the scholarship limits go to 95, I would expect more guys to slip between the cracks at the better schools.

 

[cruzer]

Yeah, the premise makes sense in general. If we field a team of Kylan Johnsons and Donovan McMillons, theoretically we could be "ACC good" but not "SEC good" because we'd have a team of guys who they deemed not good enough for them.

But I think there is at least some nuance to it. For one, it's not baseball so there will always be a "system fit" element. And then I think a lot of the guys would leave due to impatience rather than being pushed out.

But, at the end of the day, we'll never build a team from solely this method so it's a moot point. It's about finding a very good quarterback, a handful of other special pieces, and then filling out the rest of the lineup with guys who are mostly solid. This method is mostly going to be used to do the latter.

Having said that, until things change a bit in college football, we're simply not going to have a team that is nationally good anyway. So we need to schedule lightly and focus on beating the Dukes and Boston Colleges of the world.

Sadly, you are probably right....the future ain't what it used to be.

 

[thebadby2]

well we've all been known to exaggerate such things from time to time.. i am still somewhat convinced that Linda Florentino was hitting on me at a bar in dormont back in the late 90s..

Pre or post Visionquest?

 

[pierre93]

Justin Thompson - Baylor, Florida, UNC, South Carolina

I could go on with other players, but you are a troll.

My son attended the Youth Football Camp and Narduzzi went out of his way to take pictures and interacted with the kids during the drills. He was actively engaged and left a great impression.

Pitt’s biggest problem are its lame fans who bitch and moan, but yet don’t donate. Big-time recruiting comes down to NIL.

Sauce, just put some of these miserable a$$es on ignore. H2P!!!!

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

So those guys probably aren’t the type of guys that create 10 win seasons.

but relying on recruiting low 3 star players with offer sheets from MAC schools will?

If we recruited high school better then yes, i'd agree. but over the last 20+ years, our recruiting classes are in the 35-49 range. that's who we are, thats how we recruit, regardless of coach.

So you try new things or you'll get the same results..

 

[Mikefln]

Besides that, his classes were inflated by that Lichtenfels guy. They were never as good as advertised.

BS. Maybe they didn't all make the NFL or reach the insane expectations, but these guys all performed very well. You telling me you wouldn't accept these guys with open arms if they committed today?


Ol- John Malecki, Jason Pinkston, Lucus Nix, Chris Lumpy Jacobson, Joe Thomas, Robb Houser, CJ Davis, Ryan Turnley

RBs/FBs - Lesean McCoy, Dion Lewis , Ray Graham, and Henry Hynoski

TE's - Dorin Dickerson, Nate Byham, Brock DeCicco

WR -Jon Baldwin, Devin Street, Mike Shanahan

DT/DE- Aaron Donald, Greg Romeus, Gus Mustafa, Caragein. Mick Williams, Jaball Sheard, Chas Alecxih

LBs- Adam Gunn, Scott McKillop, Max Gruder, Brandon Lindsey, Dan Mason even Shane Murray was solid as hell.

DBs- Elijah Fields, Dom DeCicco, Aaron Berry, Jarred Holley, Antwuan Reed, Andrew Taglianetti,

You probably realize I didn't list a QB. That was the only position Wanny didn't out recruit all other Pitt Coaches since Gottfried.

Those players I listed would start over most of Narduzzi's players. You seriously wouldn't take those guys to be on your team because they weren't as good as advertised? So Dorin Dickerson was not a a 4 time All American, he still had 2 strong years here. Elijah Fields was never a star, unfortunately he couldn't learn the system, but he still had his moments. Same could be said for thousands of players at all schools since the beginning of ranking recruits.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

BS. Maybe they didn't all make the NFL or reach the insane expectations, but these guys all performed very well. You telling me you wouldn't accept these guys with open arms if they committed today?


Ol- John Malecki, Jason Pinkston, Lucus Nix, Chris Lumpy Jacobson, Joe Thomas, Robb Houser, CJ Davis, Ryan Turnley

RBs/FBs - Lesean McCoy, Dion Lewis , Ray Graham, and Henry Hynoski

TE's - Dorin Dickerson, Nate Byham, Brock DeCicco

WR -Jon Baldwin, Devin Street, Mike Shanahan

DT/DE- Aaron Donald, Greg Romeus, Gus Mustafa, Caragein. Mick Williams, Jaball Sheard, Chas Alecxih

LBs- Adam Gunn, Scott McKillop, Max Gruder, Brandon Lindsey, Dan Mason even Shane Murray was solid as hell.

DBs- Elijah Fields, Dom DeCicco, Aaron Berry, Jarred Holley, Antwuan Reed, Andrew Taglianetti,

You probably realize I didn't list a QB. That was the only position Wanny didn't out recruit all other Pitt Coaches since Gottfried.

Those players I listed would start over most of Narduzzi's players. You seriously wouldn't take those guys to be on your team because they weren't as good as advertised? So Dorin Dickerson was not a a 4 time All American, he still had 2 strong years here. Elijah Fields was never a star, unfortunately he couldn't learn the system, but he still had his moments. Same could be said for thousands of players at all schools since the beginning of ranking recruits.

we need to put together a Wanny Era team and match it up against a Narduzzi era team and see who wins out..

TOp of my head, that OL group is real strong, TEs too. I think Narduzzi Era DL would win out though, especially DEs..

Those Wanny era LBs are weak man, real weak. DBs too. Narduzzi era team would win out big time at DB, LBS and DLs...


I loved those Wanny RBs though, including Hyno. Flip side, Narduzzi has Izzy, JC. but yeah, Wanny era wins that position too.

QBs are tough, i mean PIckett by a landslide of course but after that?

 

[Mikefln]

we need to put together a Wanny Era team and match it up against a Narduzzi era team and see who wins out..

TOp of my head, that OL group is real strong, TEs too. I think Narduzzi Era DL would win out though, especially DEs..

Those Wanny era LBs are weak man, real weak. DBs too. Narduzzi era team would win out big time at DB, LBS and DLs...


I loved those Wanny RBs though, including Hyno. Flip side, Narduzzi has Izzy, JC. but yeah, Wanny era wins that position too.

QBs are tough, i mean PIckett by a landslide of course but after that?

Wanny recruited Aaron Donald. Plus his DEs a were all conference players and the remaining DTs were solid college players.

Wanny OL vs Duzz DL advantage Push.
Wanny DL vs Duzz OL advantage Wanny
Wanny RB vs Duzz LBs advantage Wanny
Wanny LB vs Duzz RBs, Advantage Duzz.
Wanny QB/WRs vs Duzz DBs push slight advantage to Wanny since the DBs will have a broken assignment at some point.
Wanny DBs vs Duzz QB/WRs push. Pickett is the best QB since Palko who was a Walt recruit, but his WRs were garbage and he only had 1 really good year at the end of the day.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Not one to be truly excited about.

Competing offers for the most part a bunch of nobody schools.

Only reinforces my prediction this will be Narduzzis last year.

No excitement whatsoever. The new world of CFB sucks

LOL!!!!

You don't know how good these players are or will be developed.

In the last four years Pitt has had 17 players drafted into the NFL (7 Rounds) and almost all were Rival 3-Star recruits. Not many teams have had more than 17 players drafted into the NFL in the last 4 years..

The NFL is a pretty good judge of professional talent.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[NCPitt]

BS. Maybe they didn't all make the NFL or reach the insane expectations, but these guys all performed very well. You telling me you wouldn't accept these guys with open arms if they committed today?


Ol- John Malecki, Jason Pinkston, Lucus Nix, Chris Lumpy Jacobson, Joe Thomas, Robb Houser, CJ Davis, Ryan Turnley

RBs/FBs - Lesean McCoy, Dion Lewis , Ray Graham, and Henry Hynoski

TE's - Dorin Dickerson, Nate Byham, Brock DeCicco

WR -Jon Baldwin, Devin Street, Mike Shanahan

DT/DE- Aaron Donald, Greg Romeus, Gus Mustafa, Caragein. Mick Williams, Jaball Sheard, Chas Alecxih

LBs- Adam Gunn, Scott McKillop, Max Gruder, Brandon Lindsey, Dan Mason even Shane Murray was solid as hell.

DBs- Elijah Fields, Dom DeCicco, Aaron Berry, Jarred Holley, Antwuan Reed, Andrew Taglianetti,

You probably realize I didn't list a QB. That was the only position Wanny didn't out recruit all other Pitt Coaches since Gottfried.

Those players I listed would start over most of Narduzzi's players. You seriously wouldn't take those guys to be on your team because they weren't as good as advertised? So Dorin Dickerson was not a a 4 time All American, he still had 2 strong years here. Elijah Fields was never a star, unfortunately he couldn't learn the system, but he still had his moments. Same could be said for thousands of players at all schools since the beginning of ranking recruits.

They are the same quality as Narduzzi recruits. Most of those guys never were difference-makers enough to even win a conference title.

 

[NCPitt]

Wanny recruited Aaron Donald. Plus his DEs a were all conference players and the remaining DTs were solid college players.

Wanny OL vs Duzz DL advantage Push.
Wanny DL vs Duzz OL advantage Wanny
Wanny RB vs Duzz LBs advantage Wanny
Wanny LB vs Duzz RBs, Advantage Duzz.
Wanny QB/WRs vs Duzz DBs push slight advantage to Wanny since the DBs will have a broken assignment at some point.
Wanny DBs vs Duzz QB/WRs push. Pickett is the best QB since Palko who was a Walt recruit, but his WRs were garbage and he only had 1 really good year at the end of the day.

Narduzzi had 2 All-American DEs that are currently in the NFL that you conveniently didn't talk about. I could go on but I don't even understand some of your comparisons.

 

[Mikefln]

Narduzzi had 2 All-American DEs that are currently in the NFL that you conveniently didn't talk about. I could go on but I don't even understand some of your comparisons.

I didn't mention any Duzz players by name other than Pickette.

My point is that Wanny did bring more talent to the overall team. Duzz brought in talent to DL and DBs and a little bit of RB and he got Pickett. Other than that, he would get a guy here and there. Wanny had talent spread out.

 

[NCPitt]

Yeah. And I’ve acknowledged that this approach probably does raise the floor.

But it limits your ceiling, because you’re choosing from guys that have already been at college and have been passed over by special players, and probably just good to really good players.

So those guys probably aren’t the type of guys that create 10 win seasons.

So these transfers don't qualify as special players to you - Bo Nix, Dillon Gabriel, Michael Penix, Caleb Williams, Quinn Ewers. And that's just QBs.

 

[NCPitt]

I didn't mention any Duzz players by name other than Pickette.

My point is that Wanny did bring more talent to the overall team. Duzz brought in talent to DL and DBs and a little bit of RB and he got Pickett. Other than that, he would get a guy here and there. Wanny had talent spread out.

You stated that Wanny had all-conference DEs. Narduzzi had all-american DEs.

Narduzzi has NFL players at QB, RB, OL, TE, WR, DL, LB, and DB. Pretty much every group is represented. That is having talent spread out.

 

[Mikefln]

You stated that Wanny had all-conference DEs. Narduzzi had all-american DEs.

Narduzzi has NFL players at QB, RB, OL, TE, WR, DL, LB, and DB. Pretty much every group is represented. That is having talent spread out.

Believe what you want to believe. I personally believe Wanny brought in way more talent in his 6 years than Duzz did in his 9 going on 10 years.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Wanny recruited Aaron Donald. Plus his DEs a were all conference players and the remaining DTs were solid college players.

Wanny OL vs Duzz DL advantage Push.
Wanny DL vs Duzz OL advantage Wanny
Wanny RB vs Duzz LBs advantage Wanny
Wanny LB vs Duzz RBs, Advantage Duzz.
Wanny QB/WRs vs Duzz DBs push slight advantage to Wanny since the DBs will have a broken assignment at some point.
Wanny DBs vs Duzz QB/WRs push. Pickett is the best QB since Palko who was a Walt recruit, but his WRs were garbage and he only had 1 really good year at the end of the day.

I think Wanny's talent was overrated. I mean, I know Narduzzi has that glaring loss to Western Michigan, but it seems that Wanny teams lost to MAC schools annually. He was what, a .500 record against UConn? The Big East was weak and he couldn't capitalize.

Are you saying Narduzzi's WRs were garbage? He had a Biletnikoff winner.

 

[NCPitt]

I think Wanny's talent was overrated. I mean, I know Narduzzi has that glaring loss to Western Michigan, but it seems that Wanny teams lost to MAC schools annually. He was what, a .500 record against UConn? The Big East was weak and he couldn't capitalize.

Are you saying Narduzzi's WRs were garbage? He had a Biletnikoff winner.

He doesn't make any sense but he has a personal belief that he has to stand by.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

So these transfers don't qualify as special players to you - Bo Nix, Dillon Gabriel, Michael Penix, Caleb Williams, Quinn Ewers. And that's just QBs.

You understand the difference between transferring down and transferring up, right?

Bo Nix - Lateral transfer; scheme fit

Dillon Gabriel - Transferred up and is not really a special player, which is why he just transferred again

Michael Penix - Transferred up

Caleb Williams - Lateral; followed his coach

Quinn Ewers - Lateral transfer, but the only thing on this list that is close to a good example

 

[Mikefln]

I think Wanny's talent was overrated. I mean, I know Narduzzi has that glaring loss to Western Michigan, but it seems that Wanny teams lost to MAC schools annually. He was what, a .500 record against UConn? The Big East was weak and he couldn't capitalize.

Are you saying Narduzzi's WRs were garbage? He had a Biletnikoff winner.

I didn't say Wanny was a good coach, I said he was a good Recruiter except QB and that did him in too. The Big East was a lot better than the coastal imo.

Duzz has had good players, but they are spread over many years. What other receivers were there when Addison was here? What who were the linemen? That is my point, Wanny had good Oline with good Wrs with good TE, and Goid RBs. When did Duzz have that?

Wanny had good Dline, with good LBs and good DBs. Ok Duzz has had that, but he had let downs too.

 

[Mikefln]

He doesn't make any sense but he has a personal belief that he has to stand by.

again believe what you want. Personally, I don't believe there was one year where Duzz had a Oline that approaches anything close to what Wanny had. Duzz had a good WR but never as good WR corps like Wanny had. Disagree all you want.

 

[NCPitt]

You understand the difference between transferring down and transferring up, right?

Bo Nix - Lateral transfer; scheme fit

Dillon Gabriel - Transferred up and is not really a special player, which is why he just transferred again

Michael Penix - Transferred up

Caleb Williams - Lateral; followed his coach

Quinn Ewers - Lateral transfer, but the only thing on this list that is close to a good example

You understand that all these guys were in the portal, right? That was the discussion point. Your "transferring up" and "transferring down" comments are 100% irrelevant to the point that special players can be found in the portal.

 

[NCPitt]

again believe what you want. Personally, I don't believe there was one year where Duzz had a Oline that approaches anything close to what Wanny had. Duzz had a good WR but never as good WR corps like Wanny had. Disagree all you want.

The numbers of players in the NFL is not a belief, but a fact.

 

[cashisking884]

So these transfers don't qualify as special players to you - Bo Nix, Dillon Gabriel, Michael Penix, Caleb Williams, Quinn Ewers. And that's just QBs.

Which one of those were buried on a depth chart?

 

[cashisking884]

You understand that all these guys were in the portal, right? That was the discussion point. Your "transferring up" and "transferring down" comments are 100% irrelevant to the point that special players can be found in the portal.

No, it’s not. Did you actually read this thread?

 

[NCPitt]

Which one of those were buried on a depth chart?

Again, not the point. I'll repeat. Special players can be found in the portal. Despite your claim otherwise.

 

[cashisking884]

Again, not the point. I'll repeat. Special players can be found in the portal. Despite your claim otherwise.

I never claimed otherwise.
You don’t understand the actual point. Which is odd because it’s not that complicated.

 

[NCPitt]

No, it’s not. Did you actually read this thread?

OK, it wasn't exactly what you said. But you would agree that special players are available in the portal, right?

 

[Mikefln]

OK, it wasn't exactly what you said. But you would agree that special players are available in the portal, right?

What are Pitt's chances of landing said special player?

 

[NCPitt]

No, it’s not. Did you actually read this thread?

Also, some of those QBs were backups.

 

[NCPitt]

What are Pitt's chances of landing said special player?

Not my point.

What are the chances of landing any special player from any source?

 

[cashisking884]

OK, it wasn't exactly what you said. But you would agree that special players are available in the portal, right?

Yes.
The actual discussion is whether the team should concentrate on landing the players at big time programs that can’t get any playing time.

I fully support landing Cam Ward, Walter Nolan, Evan Stewart, and Caleb Downs.

But those guys weren’t buried on a depth chart. So they are irrelevant to the talent acquisition strategy being proposed.

The discussion is about Alabama and Ohio State’s trash. And whether they would actually be Pitt’s treasure?