Why reclassify?

[levance2]

Does anyone here have more understanding of recruiting strategy and how eligibility works? I’m kind of baffled how Capel is convincing these kids to enter school early.

I certainly understand a kid like Birch who can move up a year if he thinks about pro aspirations. These guys we got don’t seem like early draft picks though. So what is Capel’s sales pitch that is so effective?

If these kids were ready to prep a year so they’d get higher caliber offers, why change your mind in the spring and go to an 0-19 team? Certainly if Stallings had offered the same guys in October they would’ve said no way.

 

[below0w]

Does anyone here have more understanding of recruiting strategy and how eligibility works? I’m kind of baffled how Capel is convincing these kids to enter school early.

I certainly understand a kid like Birch who can move up a year if he thinks about pro aspirations. These guys we got don’t seem like early draft picks though. So what is Capel’s sales pitch that is so effective?

If these kids were ready to prep a year so they’d get higher caliber offers, why change your mind in the spring and go to an 0-19 team? Certainly if Stallings had offered the same guys in October they would’ve said no way.

That's because Stallings couldn't get your grandma excited about Matlock.

Let's say that you're walking down the street and a woman with open sores and brown teeth emerges from an alley to offer you a free rub and tug. I imagine you'd say no, but what if we replace that woman with Halle Berry?

How eligibility works is simple. These players who are reclassifying to 2018 would have originally graduated in 2018 if they had progressed normally. However, they decided to delay their college entrance for a year, most likely to attract better offers but also potentially due to injuries/academics/etc.

You'd have to ask them why they changed their mind, but when an ACC program with a history of success and an extremely charismatic coach comes calling, I'd imagine that would be weighted far more heavily than an 0-19 season which was clearly an outlier.

Take Toney for example - we primarily beat out Va Tech to get him. Now Va Tech is a decent enough program with a solid coach, but do they really seem more appealing than us if you exclude the two disastrous years under Stallings? Even Dixon's final seasons, disappointing though they may be, would be good seasons by Va Tech's standards.

 

[PittMan 72]

Does anyone here have more understanding of recruiting strategy and how eligibility works? I’m kind of baffled how Capel is convincing these kids to enter school early.

I certainly understand a kid like Birch who can move up a year if he thinks about pro aspirations. These guys we got don’t seem like early draft picks though. So what is Capel’s sales pitch that is so effective?

If these kids were ready to prep a year so they’d get higher caliber offers, why change your mind in the spring and go to an 0-19 team? Certainly if Stallings had offered the same guys in October they would’ve said no way.

It's a personal decision, of course, for each individual who is in that situation. But I'd say the guys coming to Pitt decided to take the proverbial "bird in the hand" as opposed to putting things off another year

At Pitt, they are coming into a known situation roster-wise; to play for a HC they apparently really like, trust and believe in; and will likely get a legitimate chance to play significantly right away and to do so in a great conference in the the ACC.

If they wait until next year, it remains an unknown. Possibly some "better" offers could come (depending on the individual player's definition of "better"). But rosters can change in a year. There is always the potential for coaching changes in the meantime, too.

Absolutely HCJC is really good at convincing these kids about his vision for them. He is clearly selling his abilities as a coach and developer. He is also using a very big advantage he has right now to the utmost: opportunity. An 0-19 ACC record and a lot of man minutes available due to transfers.

And you are very right: there is NO WAY the same guys would have ever considered coming to Pitt had KS still been here. That's the benefit to Pitt of having Jeff Capel as the HC right now. Hopefully the recruiting strides start paying off in terms of performance and record sooner rather than later, too.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

If you get a good offer from a coach you’d like to play for why would you want to spend a yr at a prep school ? Unless it’s about your grades .

 

[joeydavid]

A player's date of birth is more telling than their graduation class. Maverick Rowan was college sophomore playing high school ball. He was a good player but probably mostly topped out his potential in high school.

Does anyone here have more understanding of recruiting strategy and how eligibility works? I’m kind of baffled how Capel is convincing these kids to enter school early.

I certainly understand a kid like Birch who can move up a year if he thinks about pro aspirations. These guys we got don’t seem like early draft picks though. So what is Capel’s sales pitch that is so effective?

If these kids were ready to prep a year so they’d get higher caliber offers, why change your mind in the spring and go to an 0-19 team? Certainly if Stallings had offered the same guys in October they would’ve said no way.

 

[levance2]

A player's date of birth is more telling than their graduation class. Maverick Rowan was college sophomore playing high school ball. He was a good player but probably mostly topped out his potential in high school.

I don’t see what that has to do with anything. These kids were ready to prep, and now they’re not. I’m curious what Capel says to change their minds. I don’t really care if they are 14 or 24.

Are you suggesting that Capel tells them that they are already matured and prepping will not improve them?

 

[crharris8892]

That's because Stallings couldn't get your grandma excited about Matlock. LOL

Let's say that you're walking down the street and a woman with open sores and brown teeth emerges from an alley to offer you a free rub and tug. I imagine you'd say no, but what if we replace that woman with Halle Berry?
.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Does anyone here have more understanding of recruiting strategy and how eligibility works? I’m kind of baffled how Capel is convincing these kids to enter school early.

I certainly understand a kid like Birch who can move up a year if he thinks about pro aspirations. These guys we got don’t seem like early draft picks though. So what is Capel’s sales pitch that is so effective?

If these kids were ready to prep a year so they’d get higher caliber offers, why change your mind in the spring and go to an 0-19 team? Certainly if Stallings had offered the same guys in October they would’ve said no way.

These kids felt it would be best for their development and to obtain the best offers, to be part of the 2019 class. However, they liked what Capel was selling and decided to "leave early" for the opportunity. Its not that dissimilar than a kid leaving early for the NBA. He originally planned to stay 4 years but if he feels he is ready, he goes.

 

[levance2]

That's because Stallings couldn't get your grandma excited about Matlock.

Let's say that you're walking down the street and a woman with open sores and brown teeth emerges from an alley to offer you a free rub and tug. I imagine you'd say no, but what if we replace that woman with Halle Berry?

Obviously kids would rather play for Capel than Stallings. I only included that bit because the situation hasn’t really changed. Stallings could’ve sold major minutes in the ACC to kids, but nobody cared. I can understand if he was that toxic.

My point is the variable isn’t Pitt, or league, or minutes, or historical significance. The variable is Capel and his sales pitch. I think that is remarkable.

 

[levance2]

These kids felt it would be best for their development and to obtain the best offers, to be part of the 2019 class. However, they liked what Capel was selling and decided to "leave early" for the opportunity. Its not that dissimilar than a kid leaving early for the NBA. He originally planned to stay 4 years but if he feels he is ready, he goes.

You’ve said nothing here beyond the obvious and trivial.

 

[joeydavid]

They were already of age to commit in the 2018 class. They were delaying their college to get into a better situation- apparently, playing for Capel at Pitt is the better opportunity that they were looking for.

I'm not sure what else you could conclude from their decision and comments.

I don’t see what that has to do with anything. These kids were ready to prep, and now they’re not. I’m curious what Capel says to change their minds. I don’t really care if they are 14 or 24.

Are you suggesting that Capel tells them that they are already matured and prepping will not improve them?

 

[PittSqueak]

If your goal is to play high-level college ball, and an ACC coach is telling you you can do that now not later .... it's similar to guys leaving for the NBA before they're ready. It's their dream & it can happen now. Doesn't sound that crazy to me.

 

[below0w]

Obviously kids would rather play for Capel than Stallings. I only included that bit because the situation hasn’t really changed. Stallings could’ve sold major minutes in the ACC to kids, but nobody cared. I can understand if he was that toxic.

My point is the variable isn’t Pitt, or league, or minutes, or historical significance. The variable is Capel and his sales pitch. I think that is remarkable.

There are lots of variables at play here and, yes, Capel is certainly one of the largest, but he's not the only one. Getting rid of Stallings in and of itself was a huge variable as his negative charisma was making it even more difficult to recruit to a program that had been trending downward in that regard for a couple of years. That's why I can't agree with you when you say that the situation hasn't really changed. It has. Pitt isn't far removed from success, but nobody had any reasonable hope for the future under Stallings. As long as we hired a competent coach, you'd see progress. That we're seeing it so immediately is a testament to Capel's recruiting ability, but it's not like he's playing with an empty deck. Stallings just wasn't capable of playing the game at all.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

You’ve said nothing here beyond the obvious and trivial.

You asked the question and he answered it !

 

[Fsgolfdr]

There are lots of variables at play here and, yes, Capel is certainly one of the largest, but he's not the only one. Getting rid of Stallings in and of itself was a huge variable as his negative charisma was making it even more difficult to recruit to a program that had been trending downward in that regard for a couple of years. That's why I can't agree with you when you say that the situation hasn't really changed. It has. Pitt isn't far removed from success, but nobody had any reasonable hope for the future under Stallings. As long as we hired a competent coach, you'd see progress. That we're seeing it so immediately is a testament to Capel's recruiting ability, but it's not like he's playing with an empty deck. Stallings just wasn't capable of playing the game at all.

There’s plenty of good schools that would’ve taken these guys , but the chose to come to Pitt now ! There’s only one anwser and it’s is JC .

 

[PittMBA]

Does anyone here have more understanding of recruiting strategy and how eligibility works? I’m kind of baffled how Capel is convincing these kids to enter school early.

I certainly understand a kid like Birch who can move up a year if he thinks about pro aspirations. These guys we got don’t seem like early draft picks though. So what is Capel’s sales pitch that is so effective?

If these kids were ready to prep a year so they’d get higher caliber offers, why change your mind in the spring and go to an 0-19 team? Certainly if Stallings had offered the same guys in October they would’ve said no way.

On the flip side - it’s possible a year of prepping hurts your status . Maybe you get hurt, maybe your performance relative to others in the class suffers - who knows.

Honestly- I’m not sure what a year to prep will do for most top 150 kids. It’s not like they’ll become lottery picks by prepping for a season. I could see a kid outside the top 150 or so trying to improver their status to get some P5 / major offers— but kids like McGowens and Toney probably aren’t going to raise their status that much from prepping a season— they’re already high major kids - but aren’t one and dones. Why play a year of prep when you can play in the ACC now?

 

[levance2]

If your goal is to play high-level college ball, and an ACC coach is telling you you can do that now not later .... it's similar to guys leaving for the NBA before they're ready. It's their dream & it can happen now. Doesn't sound that crazy to me.

That’s exactly my point. All the advice they were given previously resulted in their conclusions to prep (back out of the draft). Capel gave them a pitch that was more convincing than the sum total of everything else. That’s impressive, but also bizarre.

 

[Swervin27]

Let's say that you're walking down the street and a woman with open sores and brown teeth emerges from an alley to offer you a free rub and tug. I imagine you'd say no, but what if we replace that woman with Halle Berry?

who in the hell says no to a free rub and tug?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

These kids felt it would be best for their development and to obtain the best offers, to be part of the 2019 class. However, they liked what Capel was selling and decided to "leave early" for the opportunity. Its not that dissimilar than a kid leaving early for the NBA. He originally planned to stay 4 years but if he feels he is ready, he goes.

You’ve said nothing here beyond the obvious and trivial.

Not sure what you were looking for. It was a very basic and simple question. The kids saw the benefit of playing for Capel next year over one more year of prep to potentially play at a "higher level."

 

[Pitt79]

If your goal is to play high-level college ball, and an ACC coach is telling you you can do that now not later .... it's similar to guys leaving for the NBA before they're ready. It's their dream & it can happen now. Doesn't sound that crazy to me.

I can relate, If you're offers right now are maybe a 20-12 P5 team that made the tourney last year or Pitt, if it's me, it's a no brainer, go where it's basically a slam dunk that you will get minutes.

 

[Swervin27]

Stay another year in high school or go be a hoops player at a major D1 program. Hmmmm, tough choice.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

That’s exactly my point. All the advice they were given previously resulted in their conclusions to prep (back out of the draft). Capel gave them a pitch that was more convincing than the sum total of everything else. That’s impressive, but also bizarre.

He can clearly make a good pitch. I get your point and will add that these aren't borderline kids he's convincing to flip back to 18.

 

[levance2]

He can clearly make a good pitch. I get your point and will add that these aren't borderline kids he's convincing to flip back to 18.

Yes, exactly. This isn't the case of Kene being glad to get a single D1 offer. These are talented kids who were top 50-150 and thought they could end up even higher a year later.

Stay another year in high school or go be a hoops player at a major D1 program. Hmmmm, tough choice.

Not sure what you were looking for. It was a very basic and simple question. The kids saw the benefit of playing for Capel next year over one more year of prep to potentially play at a "higher level."

It's not simple at all. If it were simple, every coach would be doing it. Capel is recruiting better with an 0-19 team than most coaches across the country. How in the world is that simple?

 

[Swervin27]

I’ve been to high school and I’ve been to college. Guess which one was more fun?

 

[Pizzaboy1]

I’ve been to high school and I’ve been to college. Guess which one was more fun?

High School?

 

[pitt2533]

Capel is a great recruiter obviously.

He is selling a vision to these kids that they will be a major part of the turn around. From their standpoint, I am sure the appeal of early playing time in a major college is a huge part of the reason.

It is why I said in every thread where we have discussed starters, playing time, etc.. that these kids reclassifying are not coming to sit or redshirt. They are going to play and play alot. Nothing will be flat out handed to them but they will be given every opportunity to step in and play alot of minutes early.

 

[Swervin27]

High School?

you think these prep schools are a party?

 

[Jpripper88]

Yes, exactly. This isn't the case of Kene being glad to get a single D1 offer. These are talented kids who were top 50-150 and thought they could end up even higher a year later.

Not really, though. There isn't anywhere all that higher for them to end up. None of them were going to turn into blue blood prospects. It was unlikely they were even going to get much better ACC or B1G offers. I'm sure there was upside where they got more established ACC and B1G offers below the blue blood levels, but would they have as much chance at playing time? What if they got hurt or didn't perform well? Would they lose out on major P5? If they think Capel can turn Pitt into a tournament team, give them the best chance at playing time, and lock that all in a year early, it is actually pretty silly not to take the offer (from Pitt or whichever school/coach) now. The first part, Capel selling them on himself/Pitt, is still a huge part of the equation, but the rest makes a lot of sense.

I imagine the thought process being something like:
Pitt/Capel could be a tournament program in 2019-20 but may still be rebuilding. They can start playing major minutes right away in 2018-19 with a guaranteed scholarship.

vs.

Ohio State is almost a definite tournament team right away. I have to prep for a year, instead of being in college. It may be much harder to get minutes as a FR and I have no guarantee I can get a 2019-20 scholarship and could wind up at a program far below ACC/B1G and even P5 with any poor play, misstep, or injury.

Remember, these kids originally were 2018, but pushed things back previously, in order to get these kinds of scholarships in the first place.

 

[PittMBA]

Yes, exactly. This isn't the case of Kene being glad to get a single D1 offer. These are talented kids who were top 50-150 and thought they could end up even higher a year later.

Not really, though. There isn't anywhere all that higher for them to end up. None of them were going to turn into blue blood prospects. It was unlikely they were even going to get much better ACC or B1G offers. I'm sure there was upside where they got more established ACC and B1G offers below the blue blood levels, but would they have as much chance at playing time? What if they got hurt or didn't perform well? Would they lose out on major P5? If they think Capel can turn Pitt into a tournament team, give them the best chance at playing time, and lock that all in a year early, it is actually pretty silly not to take the offer (from Pitt or whichever school/coach) now. The first part, Capel selling them on himself/Pitt, is still a huge part of the equation, but the rest makes a lot of sense.

This is my point - these kids were already high major kids - but weren’t going to become top 25 type kids.

Plus- a year of prep is not a guarantee to improve your offers - you could hurt, hurt your ranking with underwhelming performance, . For 75-125 type player- I just don’t see the advantage of prepping for a season.

Now, if your just outside of the top 150- looking to get High major offers- then prep school makes a lot of sense.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

He can clearly make a good pitch. I get your point and will add that these aren't borderline kids he's convincing to flip back to 18.

Yes, exactly. This isn't the case of Kene being glad to get a single D1 offer. These are talented kids who were top 50-150 and thought they could end up even higher a year later.

Stay another year in high school or go be a hoops player at a major D1 program. Hmmmm, tough choice.

Not sure what you were looking for. It was a very basic and simple question. The kids saw the benefit of playing for Capel next year over one more year of prep to potentially play at a "higher level."

It's not simple at all. If it were simple, every coach would be doing it. Capel is recruiting better with an 0-19 team than most coaches across the country. How in the world is that simple?

Most people don't think outside the box. These recruits told coaches they were 2019s and those coaches didn't waste their time on 2 recruiting battles. They would have to talk them into committing and reclassifying and those coaches felt time would be better spent on 2018 recruits. Capel was forced to get creative. Everyone was taken and he identified a few kids who could reclassify and honed in on them, made them a priority, and offered them something that they felt they wouldn't get if they prepped another year.

Long story short: Capel is a great recruiter

 

[Pizzaboy1]

Huggy has been sending kids to prep for a number of years.This helps with maturity and they don't have to redshirt to get bigger and stronger.He's been lucky because he hasn't lost a kid (yet) that he preped.

 

[Harve74]

Huggy has been sending kids to prep for a number of years.This helps with maturity and they don't have to redshirt to get bigger and stronger.He's been lucky because he hasn't lost a kid (yet) that he preped.

I like Huggins and he's a smart guy, but very few of his prep school guys went prep because of physical or maturity issues. It's mostly been grades.

He's had kids that other programs gave up recruiting for academic reasons who spent a year or two in prep programs and eventually were admitted and ruled as qualified. It's a gamble. Some kids have thrived with a second chance. Some never qualified and others managed to get admitted but left after a season or two.

My daughter spent a couple years in a graduate program at WVU and played a club sport while she was on campus. She interacted with some of these guys in off -season workouts at the gym. Some were good, normal guys. A couple were "dumb as a box of rocks."

Morgantown is not the easiest place to draw recruits. Huggy has to be creative.

 

[Pizzaboy1]

74 have you checked out HUGGYS dumb as a rock players GPAs lately?

 

[Jpripper88]

74 have you checked out HUGGYS dumb as a rock players GPAs lately?

Their GPAs at WVU?

 

[joeydavid]

True story. I interviewed and subsequently hired a person who graduated from WVU in 3 years with a 3.8 gpa. Great person but easily the least intelligent person in the company. Dumb as a box of rocks would be an overstatement but not smart at all.

74 have you checked out HUGGYS dumb as a rock players GPAs lately?

 

[Pizzaboy1]

True story. I interviewed and subsequently hired a person who graduated from WVU in 3 years with a 3.8 gpa. Great person but easily the least intelligent person in the company. Dumb as a box of rocks would be an overstatement but not smart at all.

OK I'll admit it everyone that goes to Wvu is as dumb as a box of rocks.You guys are right only idiots go to school there.I know because my wife received her Masters from Wvu.She did attend her classes and passed all 36 credits.Pitt's players are way smarter than Huggy's and better looking also!
P.S.I'm still married to that dummie so how smart am I?

 

[below0w]

OK I'll admit it everyone that goes to Wvu is as dumb as a box of rocks.You guys are right only idiots go to school there.I know because my wife received her Masters from Wvu.She did attend her classes and passed all 36 credits.Pitt's players are way smarter than Huggy's and better looking also!
P.S.I'm still married to that dummie so how smart am I?

You realize that you're only reinforcing the notion that WVU is an idiot daycare by posting nonsense like this, right?

 

[Pizzaboy1]

OW I'm not doing anything different than when you guys call Psu people Branch Campus Dummies.And in reality Pitt has its own branch campuses so I assume you mean Pitt has dummies too.Hey it's like I can call someone a Patch Hunky because I'm a Patch Hunky.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

True story. I interviewed and subsequently hired a person who graduated from WVU in 3 years with a 3.8 gpa. Great person but easily the least intelligent person in the company. Dumb as a box of rocks would be an overstatement but not smart at all.

OK I'll admit it everyone that goes to Wvu is as dumb as a box of rocks.You guys are right only idiots go to school there.I know because my wife received her Masters from Wvu.She did attend her classes and passed all 36 credits.Pitt's players are way smarter than Huggy's and better looking also!
P.S.I'm still married to that dummie so how smart am I?

Pitt's players (or any D1 school's players) probably arent any smarter than WVU'd players but the average Pitt student is much more intelligent than the average WVU student....obviously.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Their GPAs at WVU?

What would your GPA be if you didn't even need to go to class to get a degree? Maybe we should ask Heather Bresch?