Worst possible time for the program to flounder

[mlvnsmly]

Doesn't matter what media market Nielsen says you are in. Rutgers is in the NYC media market and only 19 people in Manhattan ever heard of Rutgers. But New Jersey has 9 million people.

West Virginia's market is the state of WV. 1.7 million people. Pitt's market is Allegheny County + the bordering counties. 2.5 million people.

Networks are buying fans and potential fans and the best way to measure that is still by determining who lives in an area where a certain percentage of people are expected to have an interest in that team.

Then don't mention markets in your argument. But if you do, it's not what you want to make up. It's a specific defined area.

 

[pittchagg]

It's becoming more apparent that the endgame with the ACC lawsuits is a negotiated settlement. If that's the case, it should give the ACC (and ESPN) the benefit to work on its future without a chaotic free-for-all. Being anchored on the east coast is still an advantage and there is value in that. Both population wise and household income wise, you just don't ignore that.

My genuine best guess is that the ESPN/ACC relationship continues until 2036 at generally the same level that it is now, but with maybe one or two tweaks that are more in ESPN’s favor. Something like all of those ACCNX games (baseball, soccer, early season basketball, etc.) getting moved exclusively to ESPN+ so you need to pay for a separate subscription rather than just being able to get it with your cable subscription.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Then don't mention markets in your argument. But if you do, it's not what you want to make up. It's a specific defined area.

Because you should know what I mean. A media market for college networks TV deals is a city and maybe a 30 mile perimeter unless you have a statewide fan base then you can say its realistically the whole state

 

[mlvnsmly]

Because you should know what I mean. A media market for college networks TV deals is a city and maybe a 30 mile perimeter unless you have a statewide fan base then you can say its realistically the whole state

No it isn't. It's a predined area for the purposes of advertising. When Edgar Snyder pays for a commercial to play in the Pittsburgh DMA, it plays in Morgantown too. If the Penguins game is blacked locally guess what, it's blacked out in Morgantown too. If you buy NFL sYou can decide in your own mind that only people in West Virginia watch WVU, and maybe or maybe not that's true, but they are still part of the Pittsburgh market and that is what any broadcast deal is based on. And when networks deal with cable providers to place their channel on main tiers in in-market areas, the TV market is exactly what it's based on. So if the ACC Network gets on expanded basic cable on Xfinity in Pittsburgh, it is on expanded basic cable in Morgantown. If you don't like it, you should petition Nielsen to change it.

 

[HailToPitt725]

It's becoming more apparent that the endgame with the ACC lawsuits is a negotiated settlement. If that's the case, it should give the ACC (and ESPN) the benefit to work on its future without a chaotic free-for-all. Being anchored on the east coast is still an advantage and there is value in that. Both population wise and household income wise, you just don't ignore that.

Something else to keep in mind is that Disney’s exclusive negotiating window with the NBA just ended today. Depending on what their next deal looks like, it’d be very difficult for them to also drop all the programming the ACC provides.

 

[pittdan77]

Something else to keep in mind is that Disney’s exclusive negotiating window with the NBA just ended today. Depending on what their next deal looks like, it’d be very difficult for them to also drop all the programming the ACC provides.

Yeah, ESPN needs content. Especially as more and more services enter the market.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No it isn't. It's a predined area for the purposes of advertising. When Edgar Snyder pays for a commercial to play in the Pittsburgh DMA, it plays in Morgantown too. If the Penguins game is blacked locally guess what, it's blacked out in Morgantown too. If you buy NFL sYou can decide in your own mind that only people in West Virginia watch WVU, and maybe or maybe not that's true, but they are still part of the Pittsburgh market and that is what any broadcast deal is based on. And when networks deal with cable providers to place their channel on main tiers in in-market areas, the TV market is exactly what it's based on. So if the ACC Network gets on expanded basic cable on Xfinity in Pittsburgh, it is on expanded basic cable in Morgantown. If you don't like it, you should petition Nielsen to change it.

Oh man. You still dont get it. ESPN is buying eyeballs in conference expansion. That's it. Eyeballs. WVU doesn't have as many eyeballs or potential eyeballs as Pitt. At the end of the day, the ONLY thing that matters is TV ratings. Historical TV ratings can be misleading because who the team played and when it was played skews the numbers so networks use the time-tested method of determining how many potential eyeballs are in a market. Lets say the Pitt & WVU compete for a spot in the SEC, the SEC isnt going to say "Nielsen says Morgantown is in Pittsburgh." Its going to assess how many fans will watch Pitt & WVU every week (advantage WVU if both teams are bad, advantage Pitt if both teams are good). Of course there's other criteria but eyeballs are what the networks are after.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's becoming more apparent that the endgame with the ACC lawsuits is a negotiated settlement. If that's the case, it should give the ACC (and ESPN) the benefit to work on its future without a chaotic free-for-all. Being anchored on the east coast is still an advantage and there is value in that. Both population wise and household income wise, you just don't ignore that.

Any negotiated settlement which allows members to leave is unequivocally a LOSS for the ACC. The ACC has no reason to settle because if they settle, they lose teams. If they lose in court, they lose teams. The only reason to settle is if they know they are going to lose so they try to get a little more out of FSU and Clemson on their way out. If you hear anything about a settlement, that is code for the ACC knew it was going to lose in court. Because if it has any confidence at all that it can win, you go to court.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Oh man. You still dont get it. ESPN is buying eyeballs in conference expansion. That's it. Eyeballs. WVU doesn't have as many eyeballs or potential eyeballs as Pitt. At the end of the day, the ONLY thing that matters is TV ratings. Historical TV ratings can be misleading because who the team played and when it was played skews the numbers so networks use the time-tested method of determining how many potential eyeballs are in a market. Lets say the Pitt & WVU compete for a spot in the SEC, the SEC isnt going to say "Nielsen says Morgantown is in Pittsburgh." Its going to assess how many fans will watch Pitt & WVU every week (advantage WVU if both teams are bad, advantage Pitt if both teams are good). Of course there's other criteria but eyeballs are what the networks are after.

And you don't get it. Tallahassee Florida and Clemson South Carolina markets don't bring "eyeballs". It is all about brand recognition, loyalty and fanbase size.

 

[Las Panteras]

I would suspect that NCSU, if available, would be the first school invited because of the significant number of alumni/former residents at WVU/Cincinnati living in NC.

it was right here i stopped reading and started laughing.......

 

[mlvnsmly]

Oh man. You still dont get it. ESPN is buying eyeballs in conference expansion. That's it. Eyeballs. WVU doesn't have as many eyeballs or potential eyeballs as Pitt. At the end of the day, the ONLY thing that matters is TV ratings. Historical TV ratings can be misleading because who the team played and when it was played skews the numbers so networks use the time-tested method of determining how many potential eyeballs are in a market. Lets say the Pitt & WVU compete for a spot in the SEC, the SEC isnt going to say "Nielsen says Morgantown is in Pittsburgh." Its going to assess how many fans will watch Pitt & WVU every week (advantage WVU if both teams are bad, advantage Pitt if both teams are good). Of course there's other criteria but eyeballs are what the networks are after.

Move the goalposts wherever you like. Or maybe you could get a job as an "eyeball counter" lol. I'm curious how you think TV ratings are calculated in the absence of Nielsen markets.

"so networks use the time-tested method of determining how many potential eyeballs are in a market" - exactly. How many people are in the Pittsburgh DMA includes every TV in Morgantown. There's no more specific way to calculate it or to target those customers.

"Nielsen says Morgantown is in Pittsburgh." This is exactly how cable TV contracts work. When you have the SEC Network and the SEC has Pitt (or WVU), the SEC Network negotiates there way on to expanded basic cable instead of a sports tier in all of the Pittsburgh market including Morgantown, which is an exponential difference in households.

If you think people are sitting down at a bargaining table and comparing Pitt and WVU spectators based on hypothetical records, you are the buffoon that everyone here thinks you are.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

And you don't get it. Tallahassee Florida and Clemson South Carolina markets don't bring "eyeballs". It is all about brand recognition, loyalty and fanbase size.

FSU brings many eyeballs as it has a statewide following in a very populated state. Clemson also has a statewide following as one of the 2 big public universities.

 

[pittdan77]

Any negotiated settlement which allows members to leave is unequivocally a LOSS for the ACC. The ACC has no reason to settle because if they settle, they lose teams. If they lose in court, they lose teams. The only reason to settle is if they know they are going to lose so they try to get a little more out of FSU and Clemson on their way out. If you hear anything about a settlement, that is code for the ACC knew it was going to lose in court. Because if it has any confidence at all that it can win, you go to court.

I mean, you can call it a loss if it matters to you. Smart people look around and know when it's time to cut losses and make lemonade out of the lemons you have lying around.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Move the goalposts wherever you like. Or maybe you could get a job as an "eyeball counter" lol. I'm curious how you think TV ratings are calculated in the absence of Nielsen markets.

"so networks use the time-tested method of determining how many potential eyeballs are in a market" - exactly. How many people are in the Pittsburgh DMA includes every TV in Morgantown. There's no more specific way to calculate it or to target those customers.

"Nielsen says Morgantown is in Pittsburgh." This is exactly how cable TV contracts work. When you have the SEC Network and the SEC has Pitt (or WVU), the SEC Network negotiates there way on to expanded basic cable instead of a sports tier in all of the Pittsburgh market including Morgantown, which is an exponential difference in households.

If you think people are sitting down at a bargaining table and comparing Pitt and WVU spectators based on hypothetical records, you are the buffoon that everyone here thinks you are.

I dont even know what the point is that you are trying to make. I am simply saying that networks want eyeballs and there is no perfect (or even good) way to count eyeballs. So they look at populations in an area. No one is going to say "Nielsen says Morgantown is in Pittsburgh so we have to add them." They look at how many people are expected to turn their games on. Cincy, Houston, UCF, Iowa State, etc have very few people turning their games on. Not saying Pitt is much better but they have more fans and potential fans. The Big 12 has too much garbage. I've said the before but the best solution for a 3rd league is a new league which picks the most valuable 20 or so teams. So we dont need the Ames market, 2 Kansas's, 2 Arizona's, BC's 12 fans, Wake, etc. Pick the best 20 and sell it

 

[TakeMeHome42]

I dont even know what the point is that you are trying to make. I am simply saying that networks want eyeballs and there is no perfect (or even good) way to count eyeballs. So they look at populations in an area. No one is going to say "Nielsen says Morgantown is in Pittsburgh so we have to add them." They look at how many people are expected to turn their games on. Cincy, Houston, UCF, Iowa State, etc have very few people turning their games on. Not saying Pitt is much better but they have more fans and potential fans. The Big 12 has too much garbage. I've said the before but the best solution for a 3rd league is a new league which picks the most valuable 20 or so teams. So we dont need the Ames market, 2 Kansas's, 2 Arizona's, BC's 12 fans, Wake, etc. Pick the best 20 and sell it

I’m not joking when I say that ISU, KSU, Baylor, TT, etc fans would say the same things you say about them regarding Pitt, Wake, Syracuse and BC in terms of multiple factors that go into brand value, TV valuation, etc.

You’re simply foolish if you think market is a major or deciding factor. It’s definitely a piece of the puzzle, for sure, but it’s not as important as you believe it is. Not in 2024-2025.

Clemson (I don’t know how) is honestly going to end up in a big boy conference. The same school that Tommy Bowden coached. Cal and Stanford aren’t even in the discussion and literally the only discussion was Stanford (as a little buddy to ND) because of factors that aren’t very meaningful. And then the decision makers made it crystal clear as to what matters. Eyeballs

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I’m not joking when I say that ISU, KSU, Baylor, TT, etc fans would say the same things you say about them regarding Pitt, Wake, Syracuse and BC in terms of multiple factors that go into brand value, TV valuation, etc.

You’re simply foolish if you think market is a major or deciding factor. It’s definitely a piece of the puzzle, for sure, but it’s not as important as you believe it is. Not in 2024-2025.

Clemson (I don’t know how) is honestly going to end up in a big boy conference. The same school that Tommy Bowden coached. Cal and Stanford aren’t even in the discussion and literally the only discussion was Stanford (as a little buddy to ND) because of factors that aren’t very meaningful. And then the decision makers made it crystal clear as to what matters. Eyeballs

Wake and BC? Yea, I know they bring no value.

I have little doubt that the community college grads from ISU, TT, Baylor, and KSt think Pitt & Syr bring no value. These are very stupid people. There's a reason they had to attend those schools.

Clemson? They are one of the 2 state schools in a state with 5.5 million people. Their TV market is the entire state, not Clemson/Greenville. So, yea, they are going to a P2 either soon or 2036.

Cal and Stanford were certainly in the discussion for Big Ten expansion. Lots of talk about that.

I agree its eyeballs. We finally agree on something. And guess what the best way to guage eyeballs? The number of people in your market. No, not what Nielsen says your market is. Your actual "home crowd" market, the part of your region where the team has a very strong presence. For BC, even though they are in Boston, they simply dont have enough interested people in Boston. Now if they got to be Clemson good consistently, yea maybe. But they are a lost cause and should be kicked out. WVU has the state of WV. Pitt has Allegheny County + the surrounding counties. Iowa State has the town of Ames, Iowa. Texas Tech has the West Texas Desert where no one lives. Baylor has the town of Waco. Not many eyeballs.


To be fair, there are a lot of similarites to Cal/Stan/SMU to BC but at least the Bay Area likes college football at least a little. New England despises it. And the Bay Area has 3 million more people than the Boston metro area. Its a great place to be.

 

[TakeMeHome42]

Wake and BC? Yea, I know they bring no value.

I have little doubt that the community college grads from ISU, TT, Baylor, and KSt think Pitt & Syr bring no value. These are very stupid people. There's a reason they had to attend those schools.

Clemson? They are one of the 2 state schools in a state with 5.5 million people. Their TV market is the entire state, not Clemson/Greenville. So, yea, they are going to a P2 either soon or 2036.

Cal and Stanford were certainly in the discussion for Big Ten expansion. Lots of talk about that.

I agree its eyeballs. We finally agree on something. And guess what the best way to guage eyeballs? The number of people in your market. No, not what Nielsen says your market is. Your actual "home crowd" market, the part of your region where the team has a very strong presence. For BC, even though they are in Boston, they simply dont have enough interested people in Boston. Now if they got to be Clemson good consistently, yea maybe. But they are a lost cause and should be kicked out. WVU has the state of WV. Pitt has Allegheny County + the surrounding counties. Iowa State has the town of Ames, Iowa. Texas Tech has the West Texas Desert where no one lives. Baylor has the town of Waco. Not many eyeballs.


To be fair, there are a lot of similarites to Cal/Stan/SMU to BC but at least the Bay Area likes college football at least a little. New England despises it. And the Bay Area has 3 million more people than the Boston metro area. It’s a great place to be.

Based on reading some of your posts…many of which contradict each other…I wouldn’t be so quick to disparage others. You have this way of writing which signals an obvious insecurity/fear.

Feel free to act like there’s this big difference between the have nots (non P-2 and ND). There’s just not. Something to consider. The CFP payout that was proposed had essentially the same amounts going to ACC/XII. It’s because the top brands in ACC (even UNC) just don’t matter that much. UNC, which does matter, is probably close to last place of the schools that matter…..Ohio St, Michigan, ND, USC, Bama, Texas, OU, LSU, Georgia, and UF. UNC is in the lesser group of schools that matter with Tennessee, Penn St and maybe a couple others.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Based on reading some of your posts…many of which contradict each other…I wouldn’t be so quick to disparage others. You have this way of writing which signals an obvious insecurity/fear.

Feel free to act like there’s this big difference between the have nots (non P-2 and ND). There’s just not. Something to consider. The CFP payout that was proposed had essentially the same amounts going to ACC/XII. It’s because the top brands in ACC (even UNC) just don’t matter that much. UNC, which does matter, is probably close to last place of the schools that matter…..Ohio St, Michigan, ND, USC, Bama, Texas, OU, LSU, Georgia, and UF. UNC is in the lesser group of schools that matter with Tennessee, Penn St and maybe a couple others.

Based on the quality of the teams, the current ACC and Big 12 are similar. That has the most to do with payouts/bids being the same. Outside of FSU and Clemson, the ACC hasn't done enough. However, it goes to show you that even though the Big 12 community colleges live and breathe football, they STILL cant get a better CFP deal than the ACC, which views football as a necessary evil so they can have basketball, soccer, and baseball programs.