I knew this episode was coming and expected shots at Hollywood and Bob Iger. But I didn’t expect Kathleen Kennedy to be the main villain and featured throughout.
WVU - Everything That is Wrong With Education
- Thread starter TheSpecialSauce
- Start date
It doesn't matter whether its commentary or whatever else you might think it is. Both articles are a minute sample of the discussion of the concept that has been around for several years and that you seemingly missed altogether.
Of course colleges aren't going to for that. Guess why. Because they know that some of the degreed people they put into the world can't make the payments. That's the whole point. Make them accountable.
Back when I didn't have money, the bank (PNC) would deduct transactions in such a way (largest first instead of in the order the transaction occured) so that they could change more overdraft fees. They stole money from me. Now, they aren't allowed and I think they aren't allowed to deduct by largest transaction of the day first. Bank and financial regulation = good.
Finally, a real example. But I'm willing to bet that the Account Agreement disclosures made clear that was a possibility and you ignored it. In fact, I just googled an example and it specifically states:
"The order in which we receive, process, and post items can affect the total number of NSF items and related service fees. When we process items on a particular business day, we do so without regard to the order in which the transactions occurred. Therefore, we may not process and post items to your account in the same order in which you write checks and/or make withdrawals from your account. We reserve the right to process and post items in any order we determine."
First Citizens
Right, and they did it in a way that would make them millions in fees, harming consumers and enriching themselves. You can defend them if so choose, but that's what they did. Now, I think they aren't allowed to charge overdraft fees unless the customer opts in.
Regulation= good.
There is a difference between overdraft fees and no sufficient funds fees. A non sufficient fund fee is charged on ACH or Check transactions. These occur when an item is presented for payment and you don’t have enough money in your account to pay for it. You don’t opt in for these. A customer oriented bank would typically pay as many items as it can before imposing fees, i.e., paying the smallest items first.
What some institutions allow you to do by opting in is allow you to make debit card purchases that overdraw your account instead of denying the transaction.
If there isn't enough money in the account, the payment shouldn't go through. But, what banks did in the past (maybe still do?) is process the largest transaction first for that day, so that they could get your balance under $0 faster, a d then charge the fee for every smaller transaction when funds weren't available.
They aren't going to do it for the same reason they don't give refunds to a student who flunks out.
The agency for decisions on attending a school, taking a loan, picking a career, and finding and retaining employment is 100% on the individual. Universities aren't insurance policies for personal productivity nor were most founded with the intent to be vocational schools, despite the modern attempts at painting them that way.
In other words, you didn't have enough in your account to cover all of your payments. That sounds like you were at fault for at least 1 charge and further at fault for expecting the bank to cover for you.
The point is that the university should own some responsibility when sending degreed people into the job world with debt that they know can't be paid. Don't try to argue that they don't know because they are fully aware of the kind of jobs and salaries their grads get. More and more people are coming to the realization that universities are the beneficiaries of current system that allows them to raise tuition without the risk borne by the student and lenders. As that realization grows, there will be moves to put more of the risk on the beneficiaries - the schools.
No. People need to take responsibility for themselves. It begins and ends with the individual. Welcome to the real world.
I'm all for personal responsibility.
I'm also for making organizations accounable for their deceptions.
That's rich. Are universities not required publish their costs up front? That's a rhetorical question because it is a federal requirement. So is job placement information if used for marketing purposes.
Are they required to tell people what the graduates in their chosen major earn (range and average)?
Sorry, are you saying potential students don't have the ability to google "salaries for [major]"?
They don't have parents, guidance counselors, loads of websites, federal databases, all manner of rankings and information? They don't have the ability to read the disclosures on any loan they sign? Hell, this information was available 30 years ago. It is only more easily accessible now. Studies upon studies, articles upon articles. More resources for this than for probably any other decision someone is going to make with their money.
There literally is no excuse to not make a completely informed decision.
Last edited:
You didn't answer my question. I guess the answer is "no, schools have no requirement to fully inform a student that he likely will be unable to pay for his education with a degree from our school".
Sorry, not their job to be a substitute for a student's common sense. LOL, yeah, you believe in personal responsibility all right. Poor little victims.
I believe students should be 100% responsible for paying their loan. But I also believe that the conditions surrounding that loan should be open and transparent. That includes institutions fully informing students about their future career choice based on grads from that school. Its a shame that you want institutions to be completely unaccountable for its grads struggling with loan payments.
Loan agreements are 100% transparent. Your definition of "transparency" isn't accurate or even feasible.
Yes, I do not believe it is not the job of the school to spend the massive resources it would take to try to spoon feed students information that is otherwise widely available already. This isn't rocket science. If a student can't figure it out a cost/benefit analysis of their educational decision, they probably shouldn't be going to college in the first place. Any decision to go into debt for the pursuit of any particular degree is only on the individual. Going to college isn't a requirement of life or even success.
You are impossible to have a discussion with. You always ignore my point to steer it to something I never said.
Somebody will legislate school accountability and you won't ready for it. Its certainly better than laying it off on taxpayers.
I agree that it is not the University's responsibility to ensure that students do not take courses and major in a degree that offers little after graduation regarding earning an income.
I also believe Pennsylvania taxpayers should not shoulder any responsibly for students who lack common sense.
The rate of return for many students at Pitt and other universities is negative.
Pitt is a beacon of enlightenment! 👍🤐
If you know what he's referring to, why does he have to explain it to you?
If you don't know what he's referring to, then that just means that you have an awful lot of opinions about something you really don't know a whole lot about.
Wells Fargo cheated with overdrafts and made new accounts w/o my knowledge or permission. Moved everything to a Credit Union.
Last edited:
Good for you. If enough people would have done that, then they would have gone out of business. But it didn't happen so the rest of their customers must have been happy enough to stay. I am one of them. Nothing they did impacted me at all.
I seem to know more than you, not that that is anything to brag about.
I didn't. You really can't read. I simply told him that he did not the question as asked.
Saying Wells Fargo told you the how, assuming that you know what Wells Fargo did. You either didn't know what he meant, or you knew but tried to deflect because you knew it was exactly an example of something that you've argued didn't really happen.
I personally never understood why anyone (other than big business and the super rich) banks with big corporate banks. I did when I was younger and now I'm with a FCU and 2 small community banks.
That’s possible, and lucky you. The other possibility is that Wells Fargo made so much money from cheating that they shrugged off the lost business. IIRC, the WF CEO/CFO slithered away with 20 mill or so in her pocket.
WF has done several things. He mentioned 2, but didn't say how they impacted him directly. I've been a WF customer for 30 years and nothing they did re overdrafts and new accounts impacted me. Rather than guessing (another form of your wishful thinking), I wanted to know specifics. So, yes, I didn't know what he meant. But not for the reasons you seem to think.
If you're an elite customer with the big banks, they treat you pretty well. But those are their target customers. Most retail customers with small balances are not profitable so they couldn't care less about losing them. Which goes back to my original point that businesses will treat their customers fairly or they will lose them. WF treats its target customers fairly, if not outright well.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Well, it does matter because opinion articles don't have to be grounded in reality. But they are accountable. Student loans aren't something you can bankrupt your way out of. Even the programs that you deem worthy are difficult if not impossible to pay back because of how the loans are structured. It's not the school or the program. It's the way the loans work.
It’s not the way the loans work that is the issue. It’s the total dollar amount of the loan when all is said and done. The real problem is the additional amount of debt the average student gets himself into before it’s time to pay back his student loan. Too many college students are racking up thousands of dollars in credit card debt while they are in school and student loan is in deferment. Kids shouldn’t be getting $5000 plus credit lines based on their income from part-time summer jobs. But they are.
