You have to fire him, you have to

[eastcoasthoops]

Would the same thing have happened this year regardless the coach (including Dixon)?

Was this going to be an 8-24 or 10-22 year not matter what?

I don't know. And I really don't waste my time dabbling in hypotheticals.

The post-Dixon transition was going to be difficult, no matter who the reigns were given to. KS was given a difficult hand to play, but in retrospect, he could have played the hand better.

He was an established coach with supposedly established recruiting ties. He could have/should have done more with his first recruiting class than simply reaffirm Jamie's offers, and needless to say, allowing one scholarship go unused. He compounded that poor decision with the forced recognition that the roster was in desperate need of complete retooling. His first class could have been the foundation of that retooling. And by failing to take advantage of that opportunity, he severely reduced his already thin margin for error. The only way he was going to make up for that mistake was by hitting it out of the park on his big class last year, but as we saw, he lost out on many recruiting battles and was left scrambling for bodies.

I don't think coming to the conclusion that a change is necessary is somehow resorting to the demands of the pitch forked masses. I think you just have to take a step back and look at the larger view of the direction of the program and see that the heavy cost associated with buying yourself out of a bad contract is less painful than two more years of questionable recruiting, double digit losses, and tumbleweeds at the Pete. Institutionally, the powers that be must view this as an incredible ROI anchor pulling down the Pitt brand and finances.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

When looking at the roster did anyone out there really think that this freshman team was going to win games against conference opponents with better more experienced players ?

After every loss is the message board geniuses going to continue to state the obvious and call for the coaches head ?

Explain to me what coach is coming in here with enough talent in back pocket to change things around quickly .

Using Duquesne as an example of a turn around is great if Pitt plays in the A10. Put the Dukes in the ACC and we’ll see just how good they are .

You want change at Pitt to happen quickly ..... they need a bagman .

Fire KS and starting over again with an unknown coach then fire him because he’s starting his own rebuild and can’t win fast enough to make everyone happy sounds like a great plan waiting to happen .

Pitt has two options stick with KS for two more seasons or find 20million which is enough to buy out KS and hire a game changer HC .
Think Pitt chooses the first option !

 

[gary2]

I don't know. And I really don't waste my time dabbling in hypotheticals.

The post-Dixon transition was going to be difficult, no matter who the reigns were given to. KS was given a difficult hand to play, but in retrospect, he could have played the hand better.

He was an established coach with supposedly established recruiting ties. He could have/should have done more with his first recruiting class than simply reaffirm Jamie's offers, and needless to say, allowing one scholarship go unused. He compounded that poor decision with the forced recognition that the roster was in desperate need of complete retooling. His first class could have been the foundation of that retooling. And by failing to take advantage of that opportunity, he severely reduced his already thin margin for error. The only way he was going to make up for that mistake was by hitting it out of the park on his big class last year, but as we saw, he lost out on many recruiting battles and was left scrambling for bodies.

I don't think coming to the conclusion that a change is necessary is somehow resorting to the demands of the pitch forked masses. I think you just have to take a step back and look at the larger view of the direction of the program and see that the heavy cost associated with buying yourself out of a bad contract is less painful than two more years of questionable recruiting, double digit losses, and tumbleweeds at the Pete. Institutionally, the powers that be must view this as an incredible ROI anchor pulling down the Pitt brand and finances.

I think you have expressed your point of view well. I am sure most people share it.

 

[Jpripper88]

I love how these delusionals cut up these recruits, especially when they have no upperclassmen to play along side them. It is a rebuild, but hate for one man has left everyone with no patience. This was inevitable, considering the dyer condition that Dixon left this program in. Who ever came here, was going to feel the wrath of the fans after being promised a "splash hire". You can cut on Stallings all you want, but, these kids deserve better than people like Le Vance, who cut them down. If you think these kids suck, what did you think of haughton, Epps, Nix, Milligan and the rest of the garbage Dixon was bringing in to feed the future of the program?

No one is calling them bad people. They just are not ACC caliber players. Every single one of them is replaceable.

Would the same thing have happened this year regardless the coach (including Dixon)?

Was this going to be an 8-24 or 10-22 year not matter what?

No. And last year would not have been 16-17 and sitting out the postseason.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I don't know. And I really don't waste my time dabbling in hypotheticals.

The post-Dixon transition was going to be difficult, no matter who the reigns were given to. KS was given a difficult hand to play, but in retrospect, he could have played the hand better.

He was an established coach with supposedly established recruiting ties. He could have/should have done more with his first recruiting class than simply reaffirm Jamie's offers, and needless to say, allowing one scholarship go unused. He compounded that poor decision with the forced recognition that the roster was in desperate need of complete retooling. His first class could have been the foundation of that retooling. And by failing to take advantage of that opportunity, he severely reduced his already thin margin for error. The only way he was going to make up for that mistake was by hitting it out of the park on his big class last year, but as we saw, he lost out on many recruiting battles and was left scrambling for bodies.

I don't think coming to the conclusion that a change is necessary is somehow resorting to the demands of the pitch forked masses. I think you just have to take a step back and look at the larger view of the direction of the program and see that the heavy cost associated with buying yourself out of a bad contract is less painful than two more years of questionable recruiting, double digit losses, and tumbleweeds at the Pete. Institutionally, the powers that be must view this as an incredible ROI anchor pulling down the Pitt brand and finances.

Sounds great , but I don’t think Pitts brass defines the Pitt brand by the success of its athletic teams !

 

[eastcoasthoops]

Sounds great , but I don’t think Pitts brass defines the Pitt brand by the success of its athletic teams !

You completely missed the larger picture of my comment.

 

[pitt-girl]

Would the same thing have happened this year regardless the coach (including Dixon)?

Was this going to be an 8-24 or 10-22 year not matter what?

That is completely hypothetical. You nor I nor anyone else knows what would have happened under a different HC.

I'm confused why the focus isn't on where we are today. I applaud your continued optimism @gary2, but things are very, very bad in Oakland right now and there does not seem to be much of any improvement going forward.

 

[gary2]

That is completely hypothetical. You nor I nor anyone else knows what would have happened under a different HC.

I'm confused why the focus isn't on where we are today. I applaud your continued optimism @gary2, but things are very, very bad in Oakland right now and there does not seem to be much of any improvement going forward.

If you are forced to field a team of freshmen in the ACC (and you are not a UNC or a Duke, etc) the anticipated results are anything but hypothetical. They are assured.

 

[levance2]

I asked you a question. I guess you choose not to answer.

I will answer it for you - Recently we have had more than 1 four star recruit in a recruiting season was the James Robinson and Steve Adams year (Adams stayed 1 season)

The bulk of Pitt's recent basketball recruits have been three stars. I think they could safely be called replacement players as well.

Your question has nothing to do with the topic. I really don’t care about recruiting ratings as long as the kids produce. If Stallings got 11 Stewarts, nobody would be complaining.

 

[gary2]

Your question has nothing to do with the topic. I really don’t care about recruiting ratings as long as the kids produce. If Stallings got 11 Stewarts, nobody would be complaining.

OK - I accept you premise - When was our last successful recruiting class?

Do you think a Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson and Brown class might be good as juniors and seniors?

 

[pitt-girl]

If you are forced to field a team of freshmen in the ACC (and you are not a UNC or a Duke, etc) the anticipated results are anything but hypothetical. They are assured.

Let me ask you this: Do you think Kevin Stallings is doing a good job? Do you think he should remain the HC at Pitt?

 

[gary2]

Let me ask you this: Do you think Kevin Stallings is dong a good job? Do you think he should remain the HC at Pitt?

I think Stallings is a good coach. I am somewhat disappointed in recruiting. I think it is harder to recruit at Pitt than most of us imagine. I think he has been very unlucky with injury in both of his seasons here.

I have given examples of what major rebuilds look like for Coach Hurley and Buzz Williams. That is what a major rebuild will look like here.

I have said some schools would consider firing a coach who does not make the NIT in the second year of the rebuild. I have said most schools would fire a coach that does not make the NCAA the following season.

I personally would give Stallings next season. If he does not have a record of at least 17-16 or 16-17, I would let him go after next season.

If Pitt replaces Stallings now with a cheap and honest option, they will be repeating this season again next season. That is not a hypothetical.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

When was the last really good recruiting class at Pitt? When did we last bring in a truly good non-local?

Steve Adams for the 'non local' answer. Last really good class?? Rivals SUCKS as a basketball ranking list for teams.

 

[VAPanther91]

Looking at TCU this year, I think Jamie would have made the tournament last year and this year——even with this years freshman team. Barnes should be sued for malpractice.

 

[VAPanther91]

If you are forced to field a team of freshmen in the ACC (and you are not a UNC or a Duke, etc) the anticipated results are anything but hypothetical. They are assured.

“Forced”? That was an organizational decision. The second or third of several bad org decisions....

 

[pitt-girl]

I think Stallings is a good coach. I am somewhat disappointed in recruiting. I think it is harder to recruit at Pitt than most of us imagine. I think he has been very unlucky with injury in both of his seasons here.

I have given examples of what major rebuilds look like for Coach Hurley and Buzz Williams. That is what a major rebuild will look like here.

I have said some schools would consider firing a coach who does not make the NIT in the second year of the rebuild. I have said most schools would fire a coach that does not make the NCAA the following season.

I personally would give Stallings next season. If he does not have a record of at least 17-16 or 16-17, I would let him go after next season.

If Pitt replaces Stallings now with a cheap and honest option, they will be repeating this season again next season. That is not a hypothetical.

I don't know your situation or even if you're local, but were you at the game last night?

 

[CbgPanther]

When looking at the roster did anyone out there really think that this freshman team was going to win games against conference opponents with better more experienced players ?

After every loss is the message board geniuses going to continue to state the obvious and call for the coaches head ?

Explain to me what coach is coming in here with enough talent in back pocket to change things around quickly .

Using Duquesne as an example of a turn around is great if Pitt plays in the A10. Put the Dukes in the ACC and we’ll see just how good they are .

You want change at Pitt to happen quickly ..... they need a bagman .

Fire KS and starting over again with an unknown coach then fire him because he’s starting his own rebuild and can’t win fast enough to make everyone happy sounds like a great plan waiting to happen .

Pitt has two options stick with KS for two more seasons or find 20million which is enough to buy out KS and hire a game changer HC .
Think Pitt chooses the first option !

^^ THIS ^^
I am amazed at the lack of fundamental, rudimentary skills this team consistently exhibits (examples abound!). A cheap, mid-level coach may be better at providing better play, but he is not going to change the trajectory of the program. I do not think it wise to spend the money to replace KS with this type of coach. IMO I wouldn't do anything until enough money is provided (if ever) for a top coach (Wade, D.Hurley, Collins, Matta, Crean) comes here and makes Pitt competitive with Duke, UNC, Virginia, ND, ... Until then, the ship (as we remember the good, old days) has sailed from the Pete. Pittsburgh will not totally, fully support a 9-9 ACC team.

 

[gary2]

I don't know your situation or even if you're local, but were you at the game last night?

I know the atmosphere must be extremely depressing. The answer is NO.

I am a Pitt grad 1972. I am married and retired. I am local. I have previously indicated that I generally attend 3 football and 3 basketball games a year. I was at the Duquesne, Lehigh and Geo.Tech games. I am considering attending 1 more.

I watch every game. I view most press conferences and listen to the coaching shows. I read a lot of basketball, football and recruiting internet information. I watch a lot of other college games on TV.

I consider myself a fan, not an athletic department supporter. I am not a contributor to the athletic department.

I have never played the game in any serious organized manner. My opinions are my own and not influenced by friend. relative or site that I read

That is a snapshot of where I am coming from.

 

[pitt-girl]

I am a Pitt grad 1972. I am married and retired. I am local. I have previously indicated that I generally attend 3 football and 3 basketball games a year. I was at the Duquesne, Lehigh and Geo.Tech games. I am considering attending 1 more.

I watch every game. I view most press conferences and listen to the coaching shows. I read a lot of basketball, football and recruiting internet information. I watch a lot of other college games on TV.

I consider myself a fan, not an athletic department supporter. I am not a contributor to the athletic department.

I have never played the game in any serious organized manner. My opinions are my own and not influenced by friends or sites that I read

That is a snapshot of where I am coming from.

I was not questioning your background or knowledge - apparently you are very well versed in college basketball and appreciate your posts. I only asked because it is hard to describe just what the Pete was like last night. You kind of needed to be there. There is no way the University can sustain another year of that. When I say it is rock bottom, it is rock bottom. And I've had season tickets since I was a teenager - it is going on 30+ years.

 

[gary2]

I was not questioning your background or knowledge - apparently you are very well versed in college basketball and appreciate your posts. I only asked because it is hard to describe just what the Pete was like last night. You kind of needed to be there. There is no way the University can sustain another year of that. When I say it is rock bottom, it is rock bottom. And I've had season tickets since I was a teenager - it is going on 30+ years.

I can't envision how the kind of change Pitt is likely to make would do anything but ensure that next season is a repeat of this season. Do you understand why I have come to that conclusion? Is that really what people are willing to accept for the hope that things might get better after that?

 

[CrazyPaco]

I can't envision how the kind of change Pitt is likely to make would do anything but ensure that next season is a repeat of this season. Do you understand why I have come to that conclusion? Is that really what people are willing to accept for the hope that things might get better after that?

I can't envision the evidence you used to draw a conclusion that Stallings is a "good coach."

Repeat of 0-18 or not, an actual good coach would not do worse than Stallings would do next year. The fan base and Zoo is nearly lost now and it will be gone with another year of this. It isn't coming back under this coach. Injecting some hope for the future is a legitimate move at this point. Pitt's basketball program has been nearly destroyed.

How can anyone have watched this year's or last year's team and come to the conclusion, outmanned or not, that these have been well-coached teams.

That said, I don't know whether it will happen. I'm still hoping to see something that will change my mind. A year and a half and I haven't seen it.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Stallings is a proven average coach. A mid-major no-name might be even worse. We literally cant afford that risk

Far from average. He is the definition of poor.

I take that back. He is the definition of awful, abysmal, horrendous.

 

[Delpanther]

How can it be worse? Really, HOW??

If you are angry now with the Stallings' hire, won't you even be angrier with an equally bad choice as his successor? Don't underestimate Pitt's propensity for bumbling coaching hires.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

OK, if Stallings is shone the door, who do we hire?

I have a name that hasn't been mentioned before that I know of. He would certainly bring some enthusiasm to the game and the fanbase, he is passionate about the game, and he has taken a team that was not supposed to be all that great this year and turned them into a possible NCAA bubble team. His team has recently beaten top ranked teams. If he were hired at Pitt, I surmise that the fans would be back in gradually increasing numbers, especially the Zoo, just because he was the coach and they wanted to see him coach a game.

I'm talking about Frank Martin of South Carolina. Pay him what it takes to get him here, do what it takes to get him here, and do it. He's certainly far better than the other names being thrown around here who I doubt would ever consider a job at Pitt.

 

[Delpanther]

Stallings: "not a dime back"

If they fire Stallings, they should pay the buyout and then sue Barnes and the search firm for negligence/conspiracy.

Lawsuit- what a joke!!!

 

[gary2]

OK, if Stallings is shone the door, who do we hire?

I have a name that hasn't been mentioned before that I know of. He would certainly bring some enthusiasm to the game and the fanbase, he is passionate about the game, and he has taken a team that was not supposed to be all that great this year and turned them into a possible NCAA bubble team. His team has recently beaten top ranked teams. If he were hired at Pitt, I surmise that the fans would be back in gradually increasing numbers, especially the Zoo, just because he was the coach and they wanted to see him coach a game.

I'm talking about Frank Martin of South Carolina. Pay him what it takes to get him here, do what it takes to get him here, and do it. He's certainly far better than the other names being thrown around here who I doubt would ever consider a job at Pitt.

Frank Martin has just taken in the Bowen kid that Louisville couldn't play. The $100,000 or so player.

https://northwestern.forums.rivals....ob-huggins-and-frank-martin-at-k-state.33864/

 

[pitt-girl]

OK, if Stallings is shone the door, who do we hire?

I have a name that hasn't been mentioned before that I know of. He would certainly bring some enthusiasm to the game and the fanbase, he is passionate about the game, and he has taken a team that was not supposed to be all that great this year and turned them into a possible NCAA bubble team. His team has recently beaten top ranked teams. If he were hired at Pitt, I surmise that the fans would be back in gradually increasing numbers, especially the Zoo, just because he was the coach and they wanted to see him coach a game.

I'm talking about Frank Martin of South Carolina. Pay him what it takes to get him here, do what it takes to get him here, and do it. He's certainly far better than the other names being thrown around here who I doubt would ever consider a job at Pitt.

TOO SCARY

 

[ThatPittGuy]

Fire stallings.
Hire a recruiter.
Improve the roster.
Create optimism.
Improve attendance.
Assess the hire.
Keep the hire / or /
Try again with a better roster and less fan toxicity.

We need to lower our short term expectations, raise our long term expectations, and be decisive.

And for the love of Mary... stop self-sanctioning and fighting with one arm behind our back.

 

[Delpanther]

I would have to think Stallings is trying to figure out an escape plan as well. Prior to coming here, he was, by all measures, a well respected coach who had a winning record at a P5 school. He was just a terrible fit for Pitt at this time due to many factors. Now, no matter how many opposing coaches say nice things about him after they beat him, his legacy is being destroyed, loss by miserable loss. All the while, the fans hate him, the arena is embarrassingly empty, and there is no indication that things will turn around anytime soon.

Who would want to stick around for another year of that? I know I’d be looking for a way to exit gracefully and keep at least a little of my pride in tact. My greatest hope is that we can negotiate a reasonable buyout and then he can either try announcing (he seems like he would do well at that) or join up with one of his old buddies in a consultant type role (thinking Keady or Willard) until he’s ready to fully retire.

My guess is that he doesn't believe he's responsible for the mess he inherited and I would have to agree with him. As for his legacy, my guess is that his brethren in the coaching fraternity are smarter than you think and won't hold him responsible for this fiasco either. If I'm Stallings's counsel I'm telling him to hang tough on the buyout and make Pitt pay the piper for his departure

 

[ThatPittGuy]

If I'm Stallings's counsel I'm telling him to hang tough on the buyout and make Pitt pay the piper for his departure

Agree with this part of your post.

And after that check is cut, Pitt needs to hold accountable anybody still in its employ who was involved in creating the Stallings contract.

 

[Delpanther]

Looking at TCU this year, I think Jamie would have made the tournament last year and this year——even with this years freshman team. Barnes should be sued for malpractice.

Ha. Ha, ha, ... what a joke

 

[gary2]

Fire stallings.
Hire a recruiter.
Improve the roster.
Create optimism.
Improve attendance.
Assess the hire.
Keep the hire / or /
Try again with a better roster and less fan toxicity.

We need to lower our short term expectations, raise our long term expectations, and be decisive.

And for the love of Mary... stop self-sanctioning and fighting with one arm behind our back.

If I was absolutely sure Pitt could hire a coach that could recruit top 6-7-8 in the ACC, I would think that the way to go. I am starting to look at Pitt recruiting more like DT: Maybe there is more going on here than Dixon and Stallings being poor recruiters. Maybe we can not reach that level of ACC recruiting without a little booster help.

 

[Delpanther]

Agree with this part of your post.

And after that check is cut, Pitt needs to hold accountable anybody still in its employ who was involved in creating the Stallings contract.

So you seriously think Pitt would give Gallagher the axe after the BOTs tolerated Nordenberg making over 15 years of comparably bad and damaging decisions regarding athletics. I think you're dreaming if you believe Gallagher will ever be the fall guy for this mess.

 

[pitt-girl]

If I was absolutely sure Pitt could hire a coach that could recruit top 6-7-8 in the ACC, I would think that the way to go. I am starting to look at Pitt recruiting more like DT: Maybe there is more going on here than Dixon and Stallings being poor recruiters. Maybe we can not reach that level of ACC recruiting without a little booster help.

So if you can't get a coach that guarantees that you recruit in the top half of the ACC, you keep the one who is missing on everyone.

What?

 

[gary2]

So if you can't get a coach that guarantees that you recruit in the top half of the ACC, you keep the one who is missing on everyone.

What?

Pitt has always signed mostly 3 star players.(and I don't want to quibble over assigning individual players numbers)

Stallings did not miss out on everyone. Carr, Stewart, Frame, Stevenson and Brown are all 3 star players. They would have been a perfectly fine class if we had upperclassmen in place as starters. They are better than what Pitt has brought in during the ACC era. Pitt has players in place to build on, but they are definitely not ACC 6-7-8. They may be able to compete as more experienced and physically mature players against ACC teams playing younger players.

I don't know that a cheaper, honest coach can do a lot better than that at Pitt now. I might be willing to accept a less than honest one who can. That is what I am saying.

 

[Ski11585]

My guess is that he doesn't believe he's responsible for the mess he inherited and I would have to agree with him. As for his legacy, my guess is that his brethren in the coaching fraternity are smarter than you think and won't hold him responsible for this fiasco either. If I'm Stallings's counsel I'm telling him to hang tough on the buyout and make Pitt pay the piper for his departure

His brethren also criticized Pitt for letting go of the guy you routinely call a bum who will be out of coaching in five years.

 

[levance2]

I am local. I have previously indicated that I generally attend 3 football and 3 basketball games a year.

...

I consider myself a fan, not an athletic department supporter. I am not a contributor to the athletic department.

Good lord, that puts all of your pro-Stallings posts into context

 

[eastcoasthoops]

They are better than what Pitt has brought in during the ACC era.

Which is precisely the cause of the avalanche we now find ourselves in.

It all comes down to Jimmys and Joes.

 

[levance2]

OK - I accept you premise - When was our last successful recruiting class?

Do you think a Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson and Brown class might be good as juniors and seniors?

In hindsight, I'd say the Johnson/Luther class was much better than it appeared. Jeter was also added as an eligible sophomore.

I think some mixture of Carr, Stewart, Davis, Stevenson, and Brown would be good as juniors and seniors if they are mixed in with other, higher end talent. That will not be an effective starting 5.

EDIT: To elaborate, I see those guys as Chris Jones, Cam Wright, Tyrell Biggs, Ryan Luther types. They are 4/5/6/7 deep in the rotation kind of players.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

You completely missed the larger picture of my comment.

Pitts operating budget in 2016 was 2.1 billion dollars . If bb meant anything to the university brand they could find the money do change the direction of the bb team . Bb just isn’t that important to them if it was KS wouldn’t be coaching at Pitt in the first place . What about his resume suggested great success when they hired him ?
The Pete being empty would be of far greater concern if Pitt wasn’t getting ACC money .
Think about this what Fb school would extend their coaches contract who just went 5-7 ? Just saying !