No they didn't ...that's your fake news and that fabricated by a couple of Dixon's cronies in the media. He quit ... remember
You have to fire him, you have to
- Thread starter pantherx
- Start date
I certainly agree we need a star (highly ranked or not). It would be better if the star was a physical big. We need a Taft, Gray or Blair. Even a Troutmann or Zanna would help.
If we can't get the big, I would like a Krauser, Young, Gibbs or Patterson
We need to do better than Jeter. He wasn't that good (Stevenson will be better). We need to do better than Young and Artis (stat fillers but flawed) .
Dixon could not do it. Stallings hasn't either. Maybe no completely honest coach can.
Rate the ACC teams according to desirability. Is Pitt 6-7--8? But they are expected to recruit at that level - Why? Like the other poster suggested something needs to change.
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The back and forth between Gary, Pitt Girl, and Levance is good debate.
I'm with Gary. Listen, I am 100% for firing Stallings to hire a coach who is guaranteed to be better, preferably someone with a name who will sell tickets. But, I totally dont agree with the the folks that say we can hire anybody and that would be an upgrade. I mean that is so untrue.
Kevin Stallings is absolutely proven as an ordinary, everyday mediocre basketball coach. You don't coach 17 years in the SEC and be a "bad coach." He's mediocre. Mediocre coaches go 4-14 last season. Mediocre coaches go 0-18 with this roster.
Stallings deserves blame for striking out on some targets and not landing any immediate difference makers. Despite bringing 7 freshmen in, the best frosh in the city plays 2 miles down Forbes. But, again, the fact that he HAD to do that is not his fault. Could he have kept Wilson or a few others, sure, but they weren't good and would not have helped us.
When people say we cant do worse than Stallings, what's worse is throwing darts against a mid-major coaching list to pick your next one because there's probably no better way to do it. Chances are that the guy is going to fail. Chances are Stallings will fail also but there is no point in paying extra buyout money nust just to take a flyer on John Becker, who nobody ever heard of or will care about. He wont sell any tickets and may actually be a worse coach. So, we could go 2-16 playing in front of 500 people next season but while paying 2 head coaches.
Especially if the buyout is significantly reduced after Year 3.......you might as well give him another year.........unless you can get a Pitino, Sampson, Miller, Cronin, Hurley, Crean, Matta, etc.
The no-name mid-majors will always be there
I'm with Gary. Listen, I am 100% for firing Stallings to hire a coach who is guaranteed to be better, preferably someone with a name who will sell tickets. But, I totally dont agree with the the folks that say we can hire anybody and that would be an upgrade. I mean that is so untrue.
Kevin Stallings is absolutely proven as an ordinary, everyday mediocre basketball coach. You don't coach 17 years in the SEC and be a "bad coach." He's mediocre. Mediocre coaches go 4-14 last season. Mediocre coaches go 0-18 with this roster.
Stallings deserves blame for striking out on some targets and not landing any immediate difference makers. Despite bringing 7 freshmen in, the best frosh in the city plays 2 miles down Forbes. But, again, the fact that he HAD to do that is not his fault. Could he have kept Wilson or a few others, sure, but they weren't good and would not have helped us.
When people say we cant do worse than Stallings, what's worse is throwing darts against a mid-major coaching list to pick your next one because there's probably no better way to do it. Chances are that the guy is going to fail. Chances are Stallings will fail also but there is no point in paying extra buyout money nust just to take a flyer on John Becker, who nobody ever heard of or will care about. He wont sell any tickets and may actually be a worse coach. So, we could go 2-16 playing in front of 500 people next season but while paying 2 head coaches.
Especially if the buyout is significantly reduced after Year 3.......you might as well give him another year.........unless you can get a Pitino, Sampson, Miller, Cronin, Hurley, Crean, Matta, etc.
The no-name mid-majors will always be there
[QUOTE="gary2, post: 2173003, member
Rate the ACC teams according to desirability. Is Pitt 6-7--8? But they are expected to recruit at that level - Why? Like the other poster suggested something needs to change.[/QUOTE]
1. Duke
2. UNC
3. Louisville
4. Syracuse
5. Miami (weather, Larranaga)
6. ND
7-15 all the same including UVa because a lot of kids are scared away from Bennett's style. You cant tell me the Pitt program as a whole is any less desirable than Clemson,Wake, GT, etc
Rate the ACC teams according to desirability. Is Pitt 6-7--8? But they are expected to recruit at that level - Why? Like the other poster suggested something needs to change.[/QUOTE]
1. Duke
2. UNC
3. Louisville
4. Syracuse
5. Miami (weather, Larranaga)
6. ND
7-15 all the same including UVa because a lot of kids are scared away from Bennett's style. You cant tell me the Pitt program as a whole is any less desirable than Clemson,Wake, GT, etc
No mental gymnastics at all ... not difficult to play with posters who don't go to games or open their wallets. The condition that Dixon left the program in on his departure was a crime, something recognized by all but the profoundly intellectually challenged and pseudo fans.
LOL! I didn't say he wasn't scary. He would probably get a few opposing coaches and some fans pissing in their pants when he looked at them with that stare. And he would certainly get fans back in the Pete.
Also, he's no worse than some of the other names I've seen bandied around here and probably a lot better. If you have to stoop to those lows to get a coach, might as well give it a shot.
I didn't say I necessarily agreed with the choice, if Martin was the one. I was just referring to the fact that it would generate a buzz around here that we haven't seen in a long time. He'd get the best recruits money can buy and he'd get the fans in the seats. He does know how to coach, which is a refreshing departure from what we have now.
BTW, I'd take Cronin or Mack if I had to choose right now. But Martin is intriguing.
And how do my financial contributions or attendance impact my ability to read how Dixon is regarded by his peers.
You are a joke. Go cling to the 70s and talk about how Pitt football can win a NC.
I would love to know of the 12508 seats at the Pete, how many Pitt actually has sold. The numbers alone in down attendance could be why Pitt can't afford to keep Stallings.
Cheapest season ticket is $678
Avg single game GA ticket is $40
Even just having an average of 2500 unsold seats a game over the 18 home games would be $1.8 million in lost revenue.
Concessions would be lower as well. If Pitt averages only 20% of the attendance of previous years, you could be looking at a significant loss. The only numbers I could find for concession sales for college basketball was a Louisville stat from 2011 where their 22k stadium sold $900k. Let's use $750k as a target of where Pitt could be in 2018 with a full Pete - you could easily be looking at a $200k to $500k in potential revenue lost.
You would see similar revenue losses on parking, merchandise sales... etc...
What hurts even more is most of these items are fixed costs. There aren't less ushers at the game because there are less fans... they don't use less electricity... the building doesn't cost less to operate.
When it is all said and done Pitt could be missing $2 to $3 million a year in revenue and their fixed costs are certainly not declining. There is very likely a scenario they have to let KS go just to stop the bleeding financially.
Cheapest season ticket is $678
Avg single game GA ticket is $40
Even just having an average of 2500 unsold seats a game over the 18 home games would be $1.8 million in lost revenue.
Concessions would be lower as well. If Pitt averages only 20% of the attendance of previous years, you could be looking at a significant loss. The only numbers I could find for concession sales for college basketball was a Louisville stat from 2011 where their 22k stadium sold $900k. Let's use $750k as a target of where Pitt could be in 2018 with a full Pete - you could easily be looking at a $200k to $500k in potential revenue lost.
You would see similar revenue losses on parking, merchandise sales... etc...
What hurts even more is most of these items are fixed costs. There aren't less ushers at the game because there are less fans... they don't use less electricity... the building doesn't cost less to operate.
When it is all said and done Pitt could be missing $2 to $3 million a year in revenue and their fixed costs are certainly not declining. There is very likely a scenario they have to let KS go just to stop the bleeding financially.
Again, how many more tickets do they sell by hiring a no-name that nobody ever heard of?
If you make a move to let Stallings go, you are going to have to have the money to also make a noteworthy hire. Your point is well taken that a firing with no plan doesn't fix anything.
The other side is you can't let this program sink further. I don't see how, with the roster as it is and recruiting where it is, that things get any better in 2018-2019. Season tickets undoubtably would be at yet another low and so would overall attendance. You are talking about a disaster revenue wise that will hurt not only basketball but many other sports.
He's gone if they can secure the big name; he's back if they can't. it's that simple. they can't accept the risk of the revolving coaching door after the football fiasco. and it's different than football because the situation is more dire. they know it. the quiet surrounding the situation tells you they are assessing options. they will deal with stallings one way or the other if they get the name. it's a shame, good guy, but he stepped into a hornets nest, and hasn't been capable of working his way out. we'll see what happens.
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Don’t you know Jamie’s now coaching at TCU ! Why do people want to gloss over the problem Stalling inhertided . Here’s the roster JD left him if no changes had occurred .
Seniors .. Cam , injured Luther , Nix , Milligan , injured Clark
Juniors .. Wilson
Sophomores .. Kithcart and Manguilt
Maybe the problem is a little more than the coach !
The recruiting isn’t going to get better as we pile up losing seasons. You say any coach is going to fail here next year, but if Stallings stays and is fired after Year 3, the same claim applies. You are arguing that the only financially viable solution is to let him serve 6 seasons.
You’ve said numerous times that Dixon wasn’t going to get better here, and Stallings is in the same spot but way, way worse. Even if he could magically cure everything he’s doing wrong, the entire fanbase is now lined up against him. Even if he won 6 games next year, nobody will care. Every day he is on the job is just another excuse for people to claim Lyke and Pitt “aren’t serious about winning.”
I’d put UVa at 4 and Cuse at 6. I think they will struggle without Boeheim. I think it’s kind of a dumb question though. Syracuse and Miami and probably ND aren’t going to finish in the top-7 every season. Sometimes you’ll get a VT or FSU or Clemson up there. Or a Pitt.
For all the talk of Dixon’s “last 5 years” he finished 4th in the Big East and 5th in the ACC. There’s probably 10 quality teams in the league every year. I don’t think there’s really any reason for us to ever be lower than 10th and certainly not consecutive years.
I think a school is about as desirable as its coach.
You're irrelevant... The fact that you don't have a financial stake in Pitt athletics and yet rag on people who do makes you the quintessential board troll so no one takes you seriously . Tell us about Adams.. That's your sweet spot
Anyone that thinks there is a quick and easy fix to this whole mess needs their head examined.
What makes you think Pitt is serious about winning ?
Let’s play make believe and you Mr Knownitall aka Sunshine are appointed the new AD at Pitt with complete authority over hiring .
Your HC is still JD and his long term deal is just unacceptable to you do you pawn him off on TCU to save a few bucks ? Do you really let your best coach in your modern history of bb walk and then go out and hire a veteran HC whose resume shows that at best he’s a mediocre D1
coach ?
Do you allow your best assistant FB coach who turned your offense into a beautiful thing to watch leave without at least matching LSUs offer ?
Do you extend a Fb coach’s contract after a 5-7 record ?
Face it , Pitt isn’t serious about winning !
The next time you reply to a post with something substantive instead of an insult with be the first! One trick pony.
I've probably been as historically critical as anyone as regards Pitt's commitment to athletics but have to say that extending Narduzzi was the absolute right thing to do notwithstanding his 5-7 record. He may or may not be the head FB coach long term but it was critical that Pitt make the commitment they did to him at this time for both recruiting and stability purposes. Add to that the extension also entailed the university reaching a new level in terms of coaching salaries for both the HC and the staff - don't minimize the importance of Pitt 's breaking into a new compensation level for coaches. Once having reached that level it won't be as difficult in the future for Pitt to make the same financial commitment in the future to any successor head FB coach.
I do agree that the way Pitt handled the coaching search for a BB coach does raise serious questions about their commitment to BB.
I don't believe I ever once indicated, hoped or led people to believe I was an advocate for Stallings serving 6 seasons solely for financial considerations.
Do you even read the posts? The issue was to compare Pitt's desirability with other ACC schools. Would Pitt be as high as 6-7-8? If not why should they be expected to recruit at a 6-7-8 level? (NOT finish in the standings - RECRUIT!)
The Head Coach is extremely important, but a lot more goes into desirability than the head coach. Climate, proximity, tradition, education, additional incentives, exposure, style of play, returning talent and more.
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You're irrelevant... that's the bottom line. If you find my asserting the truth, that is that you don't go to games or contribute to Pitt athletics insulting, which you have publicly acknowledged on this board multiple times as if you view it as some type of stance of higher righteousness, that's your problem. Your being thin skinned about your own admissions
and suggesting you have been insulted because someone underscores those admissions is your standard weak ploy. You're no victim... you provoke the treatment you get!
Gary, I agree with what you are saying. I think that it is very hard to recruit top 100 kids to Pitt. Hell, I think it is just plain hard to recruit good talent here. I can't put my finger on why, but we just haven't been able to do it. I don't think that many of the posters realize how tough it is.
People mention what is going on at arizona st., and think that can be duplicated here by certain coaches. Fact is: we do not know the situation there that has allowed them to recruit so well.
The lifeblood of our program was the New York connection. When slice left, the pipeline went dry. Thanks to Jamie's shananigans, we can't touch the Philly area anymore. Couple that with not having a fertile recruiting ground here at home and you've got problems.
One would have hoped that Stallings would have more connections that could pull us a special player or two. That hasn't happened. What we do have are some young players who as juniors and seniors will get this team competitive with the bottom half of the conference. As I have said before, it is a total rebuild, so we have to keep adding more talent to this group. I hope KS can find some edge to pull in some better players. I have to think that he will not be going anywhere until next season is over.
As Pitt-girl has stated, the PETE is dead, and this program has some tough decisions to make. How long do we have to wait for improvement, while the PETE is empty. When a decision is made, it better be well thought out! We cannot afford anymore mistakes.
Nothing worse than someone playing "wolf" with this martyr attitude about being insulted when all you have done is presented them with their own admissions!
I'm not playing victim. I find it comical that you always resort to bringing that up because you lack the ability to provide a substantive reply. Like I said. A one trick pony.
In basketball the head coach is probably more important than all those other things that you mentioned combined.
Then why did a coach with a winning percentage around .750 for much of his career have so much trouble recruiting at Pitt?
The only thing that matters is his winning % was .750. It is like Wisky in football. Who cares what the recruiting class is ranked if you win a lot of games.
That winning percentage started to slip entering the ACC. Recruiting that was never great, even coming off great seasons, slipped as well. That is why that coach is gone.
My question was if the Head Coach is by far the most important factor, how is it that an extremely successful coach could not capitalize on his success and recruit extremely successful classes?
I don’t really have a problem with PN , but what serious school extends a coach after a 5-7 season that hasn’t been a consistent big winner for
yrs ?
Pitt has a different idea of what success in athletics means than the rest of us . I’ve been saying that for awhile so expecting more from it’s coaches isn’t realistic . If ( a big if ) KS survives and wins 4 conference games next season and 7-9 the following yr Pitt officials will be
satisfied .
Agree about the Pitt officials and success. This group may be slightly more concerned about wins. There is a small chance of a move only because Lyke just got here and didn't hire him. Otherwise they will let him see it through unless someone comes calling for him.
People said anyone would be better than Jamie too, on several social media sites. How wrong they were.
The admin can hamper the coach with weak assistant budgets, and voluntarily kicking off players from the team against the coaches wishes. That doesn't help. Khem birch scenario killing philly didn't help either.
Respectfully submitting my melon for probing...
I actually think there could be a farily quick fix. You put ONE BIG MAN who can rebound, play some defense, and can't be ignored on offense on this year's team, and the Panthers already will be BALANCED enough to win some ACC games. There's enough outside shooting on this team right now to achieve this.
It's not easy, mind you, but it could happen as soon as 2019 (not much left of the unsigned 2018 bigs, and I'm not sold on Stone). For example, we can get a redo on the Sagaba Konate miss with someone like Oscar Tshiebwe (both from Kenney Catholic). IMO, he will arrive somewhere a better freshman than a freshman Sagaba Konate. As an aside, this is what really frustrates me about the Konate miss--it would have opened a line to Kennedy that currently doesn't exist but really should.
Bottom line: If things keep progressing with the development of the current players, landing that one big man can make a substantial difference. Heck, this was the case the past three years.
No, I am arguing that unless you get a proven coach, you might as well wait a year (or 2) to see if Stallings can coach up these young guys because a no-name isn't going to sell more tickets and might be a worse coach.
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