Yes, I can read. That was my list of desirability. Those are the best programs, thus the most desirable.
You have to fire him, you have to
- Thread starter pantherx
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Yes, I can read. That was my list of desirability. Those are the best programs, thus the most desirable.
Joe is right about the HC. It is by far the most important thing to recruits regardless of school or location.
To answer your question, Jamie couldn't recruit for a number of reasons. His style of play or perceived style was probably the biggest. And he didn't have the Type A personality to sell past that. UVa and NCSU are good examples. UVa gets good recruits but not as good as NC State. Why? Because Gottfried played a more player-friendly style. Though Bennett and Dixon have similar styles, Bennett has a better personality and can connect with players better.
If he is fired after two more years of failure, you are still potentially paying two coaches and the replacement might not work either. That does not solve your hypothetical problem, and now you've just sucked for even longer.
You dont get that a no-name might actually be a worse coach than Stallings. All he ever did was win a mid-major league. Heck, Stallings did that. So, if we hire a no-name, he could very easily go 2-16 then 4-14. So you just bought out a coach for a no-name coach who achieved about the same level of success as Stallings would have. And you didn't sell any extra tickets in the process. You cant make a change for the sake of making a change unless you can get a proven coach. The no-names will always be there when you need them.
The best programs are not always the most desirable to recruits.
Because coaching and recruiting are two completely different skill sets. Someone could be great at one and mediocre at the other. In fact most coaches are better at one than the other, and the ones who are good at both are the guys we think of as all time great coaches.
I understand your premise, but you disagreed with yourself when you say give him 2 more years of failure and then fire him. Everything you just described could also occur after Year 4 of Stallings just as easily as Year 2. You are basically saying go 0-18 forever until you are guaranteed to hit a home run.
I literally quoted your own list with 1 change and now you're disagreeing with me.
You made a very good point the other day when you said that this us a situation where Pitt really can't fire Stallings unless they have a credible replacement locked up- that 's spot on! Pitt can't afford to axe him and then perform a coaching search and then deliver an unacceptable replacement to the fan base. That would be an epic disaster. Pitt absolutely needs to know they have someone lined up when they give him the heave ho.
Substantive reply.... Like, "hey did you see how many points Adams scored the other night? What a joke!
Yes. Bingo. Exactly. Which is why when I hear all of these excuses over this coach and the last coach on why it is hard to recruit here....no it isn't. It is easier here than say Starkville, Mississippi or Auburn, AL. Pretty much everything involving college basketball rests with the head coach.
I would like to think, mind you emphasis on the "like to think", that the situation we are currently in highlights the need to get some basketball centric people's input into a coaching search and real interest and what it would take to get them here, based on the last sham of a coaching search. But yes, this is Pitt and they seem to have amnesia on these things.
And that is also why staffs are so important. And it is why for the most part, I think Pitt struggled over the past few years under Jamie. Bad recruiters, not real good X's and O's, no one pulling Jamie back off the ledge like a Tom Herrion.....
When we had success, we also had some pretty damn solid coaching staffs.
Didn't we do that with Howland and Sonny Vaccaro? Did Vaccaro bring Howland to Peterson? Can't remember the details
No, I am saying Stallings has a team of freshmen. Most coaches will have gone 0-18. I'm saying fire him if you guarantee a better coach. I'm saying don't fire him for a mid-major lottery ticket because its not worth paying a buyout for a coach who might be worse.
Now, if we keep him and go 2-16 next year with another bad class lined up, you have no choice but to fire him and hire the no-name
Yeah. Something like that. But there should be enough contacts out there to go through channels without a search committee.
If there is an Athletic Director in the Power 5 that doesn't have a running list of potential candidates for Football and Basketball Head Coach, they are wildly unsuited for the job. I would think that keeping that list also would include keeping very private, very confidential lines of communication open with candidate touch points, handlers, agents, etc.
Yes, Howland was a gift from Vaccaro.
The problem is, Barnes was supposed to be that "basketball centric" expert that was going to diagnose the problems with the program and devise a solution. Instead we got...well,lets be nice..."subterfuge" that benefitted all parties except Pitt Basketball.
Not if your a southern boy wanting to stay closer to home . Or your HC takes “ care “ of his players .
What hurts Pitt the most is lack of local talent and not thinking any perspective coach coming in here doesn’t weight this in any decision on taking this job .
That makes JDs decision on Konate that much more of a
Colossal mistake .
Well, yea, we on the outside have made this observation repeatedly a number of times....however, the way Pitt has run it's coaching searches there has been little evidence that they have done this in a credible way or effectively networked with potential hires and their handlers in the way you suggest. Pitt can't afford to have a credible candidate lined up in this situation only to be left at the altar as was the case when Dixon was hired or to replace Stallings with a head scratching candidate that leaves the fans with the same empty feeling they experienced when Stallings was hired. Pitt has backed itself into a corner. Pitt needs a very solid hire and they need to be certain of their ability to lure such a candidate if they fire Stallings.
Right. Which is why you cant fire him, get all the fans hopes up, have Miller or Pitino "sightings" and announce Earl Grant. He may be a great coach but nobody knows for sure. It would be another huge let-down.
Stop with the Miller or Pitino name dropping. There is a greater chance of John Wooden coming back to life and coaching Pitt basketball in 2019 than there is of Miller or Pitino.
Our best modern era coaches (Chipman, Howland, Dixon) were "no names" to most of our fans before they were hired. Shrug
Feeling the need to hire a "name" vs an up-and-comer is what got us in this mess in the first place.
Were you happy when they hired: ( assuming you were alive ! )
Buzz Ridl
Timmy G...
Roy Chipman
Paul Evans
Ralph Willard
Ben Howland
Jamie Dixon
Kevin Stallings
Paul Evans from Navy , who was lucky enough to coach “ The Admiral “is probably the biggest name hired in the last 50 yrs of Pitt bb , he was the hot coach at the time . Think about this Kevin Stallings is probably the most accomplished D1 coach Pitt has ever hired .
Review this list of names and then tell me the next HC of Pitt bb is going to be a needle moving coach . There has never been one in the history of Pitt bb and now that it cost in the 3/4million dollar range to get a big time coach Pitts going to step up !
Buzz Ridl
Timmy G...
Roy Chipman
Paul Evans
Ralph Willard
Ben Howland
Jamie Dixon
Kevin Stallings
Paul Evans from Navy , who was lucky enough to coach “ The Admiral “is probably the biggest name hired in the last 50 yrs of Pitt bb , he was the hot coach at the time . Think about this Kevin Stallings is probably the most accomplished D1 coach Pitt has ever hired .
Review this list of names and then tell me the next HC of Pitt bb is going to be a needle moving coach . There has never been one in the history of Pitt bb and now that it cost in the 3/4million dollar range to get a big time coach Pitts going to step up !
I was more excited about Willard than Howland. "Hey he won at Western Kentucky! We're going to be the little UK!" Glad to be wrong. To be fair, he did bring in some talent but wasn't the sort of coach who could handle off the court problems well and had inferior facilities. He was a good coach again at Holy Cross.
Recruiting against Mississippi State and Auburn is not a level playing field
Ben who !
My point is that Pitt has never hired a big name and KS is probably the at the top of that list !
If they couldn’t attract anyone when Ben left for UCLA whose really interested now ?
It is amusing seeing the big names bandied about here ... it’s never been Pitts way and there’s just no way they’re going to part with big bucks to win bb games .
One possible reason to do it this year instead of next is that as of now it appears there will not be many big openings this off season. Less competition could mean landing a better coach.
I think, as an AD, you have to be putting feelers out. Chum the water a little and see what bites. And if you get what you think is the right person interested with the right timing, you pull the trigger. And really things won't move much until March. If you don't get the match you are looking for, then just go into next season with Stallings, take the gate receipt hit, and hope he surprises everyone. But this should all be behind the scenes, and really, people outside of the athletic department shouldn't be privy to any of it. Publicly, you have to support your people until they are officially no longer your people.
This administration is very quiet, so I don't think there will be anything leaked.
Quiet is can also be telling. Let's see how quiet they are in a month.
Yes, but if we do end up with an opening, you HAVE TO leak names. You have to see what the fanbase thinks. You cant afford another Barnes/Stallings or Tennessee/Schiano situation where fans boycott the coach.
You want trial balloons sent up to a fan base that doesn't financially support the program at a necessary level?
You are really off your meds today.
We just need to wait for the official “vote of confidence”, then we will know there’s something in the works!!
Maybe Lyke skips the vote of confidence and goes straight to the extension and raise.
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