Clemson Game & Other Dribbles ...

[DT_PITT]

** Before today’s game, I had the pleasure of spending some thoughts and beverages with several of my friends and fellow posters, including @Bethlehemjohn . Like me, John follows both Pitt Hoops and College Hoops very, very closely.

** And for better or worse, John also follows (and participates) in sports betting much more closely that I as well.

** So I asked John whether he had placed any kind of wager on today’s outcome and he rapidly replied he did not want to touch it.

** The line had Pitt at -2 ½ and John just didn’t have a great feeling about this game. As is often the case, he made a pretty good case why this one could go either way.

** And while this shouldn’t make anyone feel any better about the outcome, the long and short of it is that this contest went pretty much as John suggested it would.

** As such, we Panther fans are left to undergo a fascinating, if not completely frustrating exercise in perspective.

** So let’s start that exercise at the top, this being the general assessment of this game at face value. My assessment tells me our Panthers played a pretty good game against a pretty good team.

** For the most part, I watched a team who played well enough to win. Sure, once again we fell behind early, but once Nate hit a shot, we actually led at the half

** But we ground our way to an 8 point, then a 7 point late second half lead. We didn’t lose that lead exactly, but we just couldn’t hit the shots needed to keep it.

** The Tigers way back included two banked in shots, including at least one of which looked like it wasn’t intentional.

** Perhaps a little better thrown ally-ooop pass by Nelly and this one is tied with 10 seconds to go.

** Now here comes the perspective. Is this a completely legit loss by a single digit against a fine foe? Or was this a huge missed opportunity by a team who was not capable of making the one or two more needed plays to win that a better team usually can make?

** Although I will certainly lean hard toward the former, I’m also reminded of many thoughts and posts from January 23 of two years ago when the Panthers followed up a win against Duke at home with a loss against Wake Forest on the road.

** Many, including me, offered perspective after that one point loss, which instead turned out to be the beginning of a 1-8 stretch and a complete team implosion.

** From the best I can tell however, what troubled that team and what drives this one is a completely different set of circumstances. And more simply, Clemson is much better this year than Wake Forest was that year.

** So let’s retreat to the some more objective facts.

** Jamarius is really, really good. It’s hard to think he isn’t playing his way to first team All ACC. And despite a splendid 3-6 from deep this day, I’m not sure I’ve seen a better mid range guard threat in all of college hoops.

** Nate filled in fine, but perhaps we should give up on the notion that he’s a good outside shooter. With each of his three point attempts in the second half, I stood up and yelled “C’mon ONE TIME!” After each time, my son reminded me saying “Dad, we already got our one time in the first half.”

** Off the court, this might have indeed been the first five digit crowd and the Pete since January of 2017. I even got stuck in traffic exciting Oakland on Fifth Avenue.

** Despite the size of the crowd though, I should also say that the crowd wasn’t notably loud in support today. In that sense, I get the notion that much of the Panther Hoops nation is still a little stuck wondering if we should get totally invested behind the Panthers this year.

** In other words, should we really believe in full this edition of the Panthers is on an NCAA tournament path, or do losses like today tell us something else?

** I’m not going to suggest that I certainly have the correct answer to that question. Only time will yield truth.

** For now, I can only otherwise add that I’m grateful that we are playing games that matter at this point, and hope it will continue for the next two months.

** I’m also glad there are reasons to want to get together pregame with PantherLair friends, and as much as losses hurt, I’m glad we are still at the point where losses matter a great deal, and we need to try dissect what they mean.

** Time to go on the road! Here’s hoping our men can find a way to get two of three! Such a result would offer us some really great perspective of this team, even to the point where almost all fans like me can get on board 100% that we've really got something this year.

 

[Chairman Moe]

I know you dislike calling out the refs after a loss (or even a close win); there were at least two egregious calls: the phantom touch on a ball that went out of bounds in the second half; replay showed the Pitt defender never got close to touching it), and the play in which Hinson blocked the Clemson player's elbow with his jaw. I'm sure others will chirp in and offer a few more I missed.

That said, it appears that as cohesive a Pitt team as we have this year, they seem to lack that killer instinct at the end of the game to put a team away, and keep we fans from clenching our teeth. The Syracuse, UNC, and even the UVA games ended in a much closer final score than they needed to be.

As you said, a 2 wins out of 3 games road trip will be quite acceptable. #11 is a baller

H2P

 

[wbrpanther]

I know you dislike calling out the refs after a loss (or even a close win); there were at least two egregious calls: the phantom touch on a ball that went out of bounds in the second half; replay showed the Pitt defender never got close to touching it), and the play in which Hinson blocked the Clemson player's elbow with his jaw. I'm sure others will chirp in and offer a few more I missed.

That said, it appears that as cohesive a Pitt team as we have this year, they seem to lack that killer instinct at the end of the game to put a team away, and keep we fans from clenching our teeth. The Syracuse, UNC, and even the UVA games ended in a much closer final score than they needed to be.

As you said, a 2 wins out of 3 games road trip will be quite acceptable. #11 is a baller

H2P

Those were horrible calls that had much to do with the loss. But Clemson did appear to me to be a disciplined fundamentally sound team.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Thoughts on your dribbles

- Santos isnt good. If he cant make 3s, he shouldn't be out there.

- I had a bad feeling about this one and when they went up 10, I felt like I've seen this story before and felt it was over though Clemson has usually beat us by shooting 90% from 3 in the 1st Half. We did a great job of running them off the 3 point line but the result of that was them getting easy buckets inside. That said, I'd live with that. Still though, they shot 41% from 3 but on just 17 shots. Just an elite shooting team plus a really good big. I see them finishing as a Double Bye team.

- Burton reminds me of Wanamaker. Dare I say he might be....nevermind, that's sacrilegious.

- crowd looked good and sounded good on TV but I was at UNC and I could agree that it really wasnt loud.

- not worried at all about a collapse this season. I know what I see and this is a good team. Will they make the NCAAT? I dont know but they arent going to go 6-14 or 7-13. At worst, this is a 10-10 team. At best, 15-5 but I would say 12-8/13-7 is a safe bet (tell John). So we'll be sweating it out (for a change) in Feb/Mar

 

[Chairman Moe]

Those were horrible calls that had much to do with the loss. But Clemson did appear to me to be a disciplined fundamentally sound team.

For sure. Of the five ACC teams we've played so far, Clemson seemed the most disciplined and sound; followed by UVA, UNC, NCSt and Syracuse

 

[PittPoker]

I know you dislike calling out the refs after a loss (or even a close win); there were at least two egregious calls: the phantom touch on a ball that went out of bounds in the second half; replay showed the Pitt defender never got close to touching it), and the play in which Hinson blocked the Clemson player's elbow with his jaw. I'm sure others will chirp in and offer a few more I missed.

That said, it appears that as cohesive a Pitt team as we have this year, they seem to lack that killer instinct at the end of the game to put a team away, and keep we fans from clenching our teeth. The Syracuse, UNC, and even the UVA games ended in a much closer final score than they needed to be.

As you said, a 2 wins out of 3 games road trip will be quite acceptable. #11 is a baller

H2P

Tell your good friend Phil to get lost.

 

[whirlybird optio]

** Before today’s game, I had the pleasure of spending some thoughts and beverages with several of my friends and fellow posters, including @Bethlehemjohn . Like me, John follows both Pitt Hoops and College Hoops very, very closely.

** And for better or worse, John also follows (and participates) in sports betting much more closely that I as well.

** So I asked John whether he had placed any kind of wager on today’s outcome and he rapidly replied he did not want to touch it.

** The line had Pitt at -2 ½ and John just didn’t have a great feeling about this game. As is often the case, he made a pretty good case why this one could go either way.

** And while this shouldn’t make anyone feel any better about the outcome, the long and short of it is that this contest went pretty much as John suggested it would.

** As such, we Panther fans are left to undergo a fascinating, if not completely frustrating exercise in perspective.

** So let’s start that exercise at the top, this being the general assessment of this game at face value. My assessment tells me our Panthers played a pretty good game against a pretty good team.

** For the most part, I watched a team who played well enough to win. Sure, once again we fell behind early, but once Nate hit a shot, we actually led at the half

** But we ground our way to an 8 point, then a 7 point late second half lead. We didn’t lose that lead exactly, but we just couldn’t hit the shots needed to keep it.

** The Tigers way back included two banked in shots, including at least one of which looked like it wasn’t intentional.

** Perhaps a little better thrown ally-ooop pass by Nelly and this one is tied with 10 seconds to go.

** Now here comes the perspective. Is this a completely legit loss by a single digit against a fine foe? Or was this a huge missed opportunity by a team who was not capable of making the one or two more needed plays to win that a better team usually can make?

** Although I will certainly lean hard toward the former, I’m also reminded of many thoughts and posts from January 23 of two years ago when the Panthers followed up a win against Duke at home with a loss against Wake Forest on the road.

** Many, including me, offered perspective after that one point loss, which instead turned out to be the beginning of a 1-8 stretch and a complete team implosion.

** From the best I can tell however, what troubled that team and what drives this one is a completely different set of circumstances. And more simply, Clemson is much better this year than Wake Forest was that year.

** So let’s retreat to the some more objective facts.

** Jamarius is really, really good. It’s hard to think he isn’t playing his way to first team All ACC. And despite a splendid 3-6 from deep this day, I’m not sure I’ve seen a better mid range guard threat in all of college hoops.

** Nate filled in fine, but perhaps we should give up on the notion that he’s a good outside shooter. With each of his three point attempts in the second half, I stood up and yelled “C’mon ONE TIME!” After each time, my son reminded me saying “Dad, we already got our one time in the first half.”

** Off the court, this might have indeed been the first five digit crowd and the Pete since January of 2017. I even got stuck in traffic exciting Oakland on Fifth Avenue.

** Despite the size of the crowd though, I should also say that the crowd wasn’t notably loud in support today. In that sense, I get the notion that much of the Panther Hoops nation is still a little stuck wondering if we should get totally invested behind the Panthers this year.

** In other words, should we really believe in full this edition of the Panthers is on an NCAA tournament path, or do losses like today tell us something else?

** I’m not going to suggest that I certainly have the correct answer to that question. Only time will yield truth.

** For now, I can only otherwise add that I’m grateful that we are playing games that matter at this point, and hope it will continue for the next two months.

** I’m also glad there are reasons to want to get together pregame with PantherLair friends, and as much as losses hurt, I’m glad we are still at the point where losses matter a great deal, and we need to try dissect what they mean.

** Time to go on the road! Here’s hoping our men can find a way to get two of three! Such a result would offer us some really great perspective of this team, even to the point where almost all fans like me can get on board 100% that we've really got something this year.

I said the same thing when Nate was shooting in the 2nd half.

He’s shooting 15% from 3 this year, 22% last year. He’s a terrible shooter. Terrible. Frankly, even if he’s in the game, stop running plays for him. There’s no point. He can hustle, rebound a little. That’s about it.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

** Before today’s game, I had the pleasure of spending some thoughts and beverages with several of my friends and fellow posters, including @Bethlehemjohn . Like me, John follows both Pitt Hoops and College Hoops very, very closely.

** And for better or worse, John also follows (and participates) in sports betting much more closely that I as well.

** So I asked John whether he had placed any kind of wager on today’s outcome and he rapidly replied he did not want to touch it.

** The line had Pitt at -2 ½ and John just didn’t have a great feeling about this game. As is often the case, he made a pretty good case why this one could go either way.

** And while this shouldn’t make anyone feel any better about the outcome, the long and short of it is that this contest went pretty much as John suggested it would.

** As such, we Panther fans are left to undergo a fascinating, if not completely frustrating exercise in perspective.

** So let’s start that exercise at the top, this being the general assessment of this game at face value. My assessment tells me our Panthers played a pretty good game against a pretty good team.

** For the most part, I watched a team who played well enough to win. Sure, once again we fell behind early, but once Nate hit a shot, we actually led at the half

** But we ground our way to an 8 point, then a 7 point late second half lead. We didn’t lose that lead exactly, but we just couldn’t hit the shots needed to keep it.

** The Tigers way back included two banked in shots, including at least one of which looked like it wasn’t intentional.

** Perhaps a little better thrown ally-ooop pass by Nelly and this one is tied with 10 seconds to go.

** Now here comes the perspective. Is this a completely legit loss by a single digit against a fine foe? Or was this a huge missed opportunity by a team who was not capable of making the one or two more needed plays to win that a better team usually can make?

** Although I will certainly lean hard toward the former, I’m also reminded of many thoughts and posts from January 23 of two years ago when the Panthers followed up a win against Duke at home with a loss against Wake Forest on the road.

** Many, including me, offered perspective after that one point loss, which instead turned out to be the beginning of a 1-8 stretch and a complete team implosion.

** From the best I can tell however, what troubled that team and what drives this one is a completely different set of circumstances. And more simply, Clemson is much better this year than Wake Forest was that year.

** So let’s retreat to the some more objective facts.

** Jamarius is really, really good. It’s hard to think he isn’t playing his way to first team All ACC. And despite a splendid 3-6 from deep this day, I’m not sure I’ve seen a better mid range guard threat in all of college hoops.

** Nate filled in fine, but perhaps we should give up on the notion that he’s a good outside shooter. With each of his three point attempts in the second half, I stood up and yelled “C’mon ONE TIME!” After each time, my son reminded me saying “Dad, we already got our one time in the first half.”

** Off the court, this might have indeed been the first five digit crowd and the Pete since January of 2017. I even got stuck in traffic exciting Oakland on Fifth Avenue.

** Despite the size of the crowd though, I should also say that the crowd wasn’t notably loud in support today. In that sense, I get the notion that much of the Panther Hoops nation is still a little stuck wondering if we should get totally invested behind the Panthers this year.

** In other words, should we really believe in full this edition of the Panthers is on an NCAA tournament path, or do losses like today tell us something else?

** I’m not going to suggest that I certainly have the correct answer to that question. Only time will yield truth.

** For now, I can only otherwise add that I’m grateful that we are playing games that matter at this point, and hope it will continue for the next two months.

** I’m also glad there are reasons to want to get together pregame with PantherLair friends, and as much as losses hurt, I’m glad we are still at the point where losses matter a great deal, and we need to try dissect what they mean.

** Time to go on the road! Here’s hoping our men can find a way to get two of three! Such a result would offer us some really great perspective of this team, even to the point where almost all fans like me can get on board 100% that we've really got something this year.

-Clemson played a good game and made more plays down the stretch then we did. Yes, they got the benefit of some banks and good bounces, but in most cases, I believe you make your own breaks.

-After seeing UNC, UVA and Clemson, I do believe they are the best of the 3 at this point.
Once we got up by 8, Brownell switched to zone and it threw us off for a possessions. While on the other end, Chase Hunter took over and made some big time plays for them.

-Overall, I think we have already proved that we have what it takes to win games down the stretch. We had just come off 2 huge wins against 2 big time programs. And although Clemson is good, they are not UNC and UVA. I just thought that we were due for a loss and would maybe have a little hiccup.

-Now, that does not mean that I don’t believe in this team, because I do. We now have 3 in a row on the road and then 3 more at home and at that point, I believe we’ll be 8-3.

-Can’t wait for Duke on Wed pm.

 

[DT_PITT]

I know you dislike calling out the refs after a loss (or even a close win); there were at least two egregious calls: the phantom touch on a ball that went out of bounds in the second half; replay showed the Pitt defender never got close to touching it), and the play in which Hinson blocked the Clemson player's elbow with his jaw. I'm sure others will chirp in and offer a few more I missed.

That said, it appears that as cohesive a Pitt team as we have this year, they seem to lack that killer instinct at the end of the game to put a team away, and keep we fans from clenching our teeth. The Syracuse, UNC, and even the UVA games ended in a much closer final score than they needed to be.

As you said, a 2 wins out of 3 games road trip will be quite acceptable. #11 is a baller

H2P

The out of bounds call was completely a miss. I checked the replay and none the three refs were in a spot to see it accurately unfortunately.

Although after our win against UNC, my son went on the UNC reddit game thread and there were literally dozens of posts there complaining about how the refs cost them that game. Funny how we Pitt fans didn't think that refs were the reason we won.

 

[gary2]

The possession that really killed us was the one where Clemson got 3 (or 4) offensive rebounds,

I think they finally scored 2 on foul shots.

checked the box - only lists 2 ORs (know we had more chances to rebound than that) - made the score 57-57 with 11 minutes left

 

[DT_PITT]

- not worried at all about a collapse this season. I know what I see and this is a good team. Will they make the NCAAT? I dont know but they arent going to go 6-14 or 7-13. At worst, this is a 10-10 team. At best, 15-5 but I would say 12-8/13-7 is a safe bet (tell John). So we'll be sweating it out (for a change) in Feb/Mar

Pretty much agree with this.

 

[DT_PITT]

-Clemson played a good game and made more plays down the stretch then we did. Yes, they got the benefit of some banks and good bounces, but in most cases, I believe you make your own breaks.

-After seeing UNC, UVA and Clemson, I do believe they are the best of the 3 at this point.
Once we got up by 8, Brownell switched to zone and it threw us off for a possessions. While on the other end, Chase Hunter took over and made some big time plays for them.

-Overall, I think we have already proved that we have what it takes to win games down the stretch. We had just come off 2 huge wins against 2 big time programs. And although Clemson is good, they are not UNC and UVA. I just thought that we were due for a loss and would maybe have a little hiccup.

-Now, that does not mean that I don’t believe in this team, because I do. We now have 3 in a row on the road and then 3 more at home and at that point, I believe we’ll be 8-3.

-Can’t wait for Duke on Wed pm.

After the game, my son and I were going through the schedule and we arrived at 8-3 also. If that's were we are at that point, we should be in pretty good shape.

 

[whirlybird optio]

After the game, my son and I were going through the schedule and we arrived at 8-3 also. If that's were we are at that point, we should be in pretty good shape.

8-3 would be really good. If you go 5-4 down the stretch you probably make it.

I’m not really counting on a win at Duke - and if we don’t, the GT game looms very large. You really don’t want a 3 game losing streak, and then you follow GT with Ville/FSU - two wins that would mean absolutely nothing but two losses which would torpedo chances.

Get to 3-1 in the next 4, and then split with Wake/Miami. That would be fine.

Just would love to have those stupid Vandy/VCU games back. We don’t really have much margin for error.

 

[DT_PITT]

8-3 would be really good. If you go 5-4 down the stretch you probably make it.

I’m not really counting on a win at Duke - and if we don’t, the GT game looms very large. You really don’t want a 3 game losing streak, and then you follow GT with Ville/FSU - two wins that would mean absolutely nothing but two losses which would torpedo chances.

Get to 3-1 in the next 4, and then split with Wake/Miami. That would be fine.

Just would love to have those stupid Vandy/VCU games back. We don’t really have much margin for error.

Just win either Vandy or VCU and so many things feel different right now.

 

[Franb]

The out of bounds call was completely a miss. I checked the replay and none the three refs were in a spot to see it accurately unfortunately.

Although after our win against UNC, my son went on the UNC reddit game thread and there were literally dozens of posts there complaining about how the refs cost them that game. Funny how we Pitt fans didn't think that refs were the reason we won.

Seems like those ACC refs hate everyone, not just Pitt!

 

[DT_PITT]

Thoughts on your dribbles

- Santos isnt good. If he cant make 3s, he shouldn't be out there.

- I had a bad feeling about this one and when they went up 10, I felt like I've seen this story before and felt it was over though Clemson has usually beat us by shooting 90% from 3 in the 1st Half. We did a great job of running them off the 3 point line but the result of that was them getting easy buckets inside. That said, I'd live with that. Still though, they shot 41% from 3 but on just 17 shots. Just an elite shooting team plus a really good big. I see them finishing as a Double Bye team.

- Burton reminds me of Wanamaker. Dare I say he might be....nevermind, that's sacrilegious.

- crowd looked good and sounded good on TV but I was at UNC and I could agree that it really wasnt loud.

- not worried at all about a collapse this season. I know what I see and this is a good team. Will they make the NCAAT? I dont know but they arent going to go 6-14 or 7-13. At worst, this is a 10-10 team. At best, 15-5 but I would say 12-8/13-7 is a safe bet (tell John). So we'll be sweating it out (for a change) in Feb/Mar

Also ... Burton is certainly a better scorer than Brad but Brad was a better distributor. But the comparison isn't off base.

 

[PittPoker]

Also ... Burton is certainly a better scorer than Brad but Brad was a better distributor. But the comparison isn't off base.

Who would you rather have on this team, Burton or Champagnie? Right now for the rest of the season.

 

[DT_PITT]

Who would you rather have on this team, Burton or Champagnie? Right now for the rest of the season.

Both really good players. I think I'm liking Burton a touch more at the moment. But my opinion could be a bit biased because I was not able to watch Justin in person as a soph because it was the COVID year.

 

[PittPoker]

Both really good players. I think I'm liking Burton a touch more at the moment. But my opinion could be a bit biased because I was not able to watch Justin in person as a soph because it was the COVID year.

Agree Burton has been fabulous and the Wanamaker comparison seems pretty accurate. But wouldn't it be nice to have a guy like Champagnie who will be grabbing us 10-20 or more rebounds a game? He would be a nice inside presence for us. But Burton looks awesome. Tough one lol.

 

[Drew1208]

Agree Burton has been fabulous and the Wanamaker comparison seems pretty accurate. But wouldn't it be nice to have a guy like Champagnie who will be grabbing us 10-20 or more rebounds a game? He would be a nice inside presence for us. But Burton looks awesome. Tough one lol.

If Burton was confident from 3 then he'd be unstoppable really.

 

[PittPoker]

If Burton was confident from 3 then he'd be unstoppable really.

I know Sam Young was better in his last season but I'm not kidding, Burton reminded me of him today. Just in the sense that he wanted the ball every possession, constantly drove to the lane and his quickness. Plus he was knocking down 3's and mid-rangers and he just had that killer instinct.

 

[DT_PITT]

If Burton was confident from 3 then he'd be unstoppable really.

I don't think confidence is the issue. LOL He's just not a great deep shooter. But what I like is that he knows it and his shot selection from three is great. If he's not WIDE open, he doesn't take it.

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

The only parts of the game that bummed me out were the few missed finishes in the last few minutes and the wasted possession with 40 second left

 

[4Mark_Marty]

** Before today’s game, I had the pleasure of spending some thoughts and beverages with several of my friends and fellow posters, including @Bethlehemjohn . Like me, John follows both Pitt Hoops and College Hoops very, very closely.

** And for better or worse, John also follows (and participates) in sports betting much more closely that I as well.

** So I asked John whether he had placed any kind of wager on today’s outcome and he rapidly replied he did not want to touch it.

** The line had Pitt at -2 ½ and John just didn’t have a great feeling about this game. As is often the case, he made a pretty good case why this one could go either way.

** And while this shouldn’t make anyone feel any better about the outcome, the long and short of it is that this contest went pretty much as John suggested it would.

** As such, we Panther fans are left to undergo a fascinating, if not completely frustrating exercise in perspective.

** So let’s start that exercise at the top, this being the general assessment of this game at face value. My assessment tells me our Panthers played a pretty good game against a pretty good team.

** For the most part, I watched a team who played well enough to win. Sure, once again we fell behind early, but once Nate hit a shot, we actually led at the half

** But we ground our way to an 8 point, then a 7 point late second half lead. We didn’t lose that lead exactly, but we just couldn’t hit the shots needed to keep it.

** The Tigers way back included two banked in shots, including at least one of which looked like it wasn’t intentional.

** Perhaps a little better thrown ally-ooop pass by Nelly and this one is tied with 10 seconds to go.

** Now here comes the perspective. Is this a completely legit loss by a single digit against a fine foe? Or was this a huge missed opportunity by a team who was not capable of making the one or two more needed plays to win that a better team usually can make?

** Although I will certainly lean hard toward the former, I’m also reminded of many thoughts and posts from January 23 of two years ago when the Panthers followed up a win against Duke at home with a loss against Wake Forest on the road.

** Many, including me, offered perspective after that one point loss, which instead turned out to be the beginning of a 1-8 stretch and a complete team implosion.

** From the best I can tell however, what troubled that team and what drives this one is a completely different set of circumstances. And more simply, Clemson is much better this year than Wake Forest was that year.

** So let’s retreat to the some more objective facts.

** Jamarius is really, really good. It’s hard to think he isn’t playing his way to first team All ACC. And despite a splendid 3-6 from deep this day, I’m not sure I’ve seen a better mid range guard threat in all of college hoops.

** Nate filled in fine, but perhaps we should give up on the notion that he’s a good outside shooter. With each of his three point attempts in the second half, I stood up and yelled “C’mon ONE TIME!” After each time, my son reminded me saying “Dad, we already got our one time in the first half.”

** Off the court, this might have indeed been the first five digit crowd and the Pete since January of 2017. I even got stuck in traffic exciting Oakland on Fifth Avenue.

** Despite the size of the crowd though, I should also say that the crowd wasn’t notably loud in support today. In that sense, I get the notion that much of the Panther Hoops nation is still a little stuck wondering if we should get totally invested behind the Panthers this year.

** In other words, should we really believe in full this edition of the Panthers is on an NCAA tournament path, or do losses like today tell us something else?

** I’m not going to suggest that I certainly have the correct answer to that question. Only time will yield truth.

** For now, I can only otherwise add that I’m grateful that we are playing games that matter at this point, and hope it will continue for the next two months.

** I’m also glad there are reasons to want to get together pregame with PantherLair friends, and as much as losses hurt, I’m glad we are still at the point where losses matter a great deal, and we need to try dissect what they mean.

** Time to go on the road! Here’s hoping our men can find a way to get two of three! Such a result would offer us some really great perspective of this team, even to the point where almost all fans like me can get on board 100% that we've really got something this year.

Game watch Wednesday??

 

[Drew1208]

I don't think confidence is the issue. LOL He's just not a great deep shooter. But what I like is that he knows it and his shot selection from three is great. If he's not WIDE open, he doesn't take it.

I just watched the condensed game. I saw he hit 3 in the 1st half. I just feel sometimes he's sagged on so much and I think he's less confident in his abilities than he should be

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

I don't think confidence is the issue. LOL He's just not a great deep shooter. But what I like is that he knows it and his shot selection from three is great. If he's not WIDE open, he doesn't take it.

Agree totally. He is shooting 43% from 3 because he only takes good ones. He knows that it isn’t the best part of his game and only takes it when someone else creates and open look for him.

 

[NCanton Panther]

If Burton was confident from 3 then he'd be unstoppable really.

I don’t think of Burton as not confident from 3. I think he easily takes the 3 if the good open shot opportunity is there. But he’s also very confident driving to the lane for the layup or pull-up jumper so he goes that route just as easily if he thinks it’s a better opportunity.

 

[Drew1208]

I don’t think of Burton as not confident from 3. I think he easily takes the 3 if the good open shot opportunity is there. But he’s also very confident driving to the lane for the layup or pull-up jumper so he goes that route just as easily if he thinks it’s a better opportunity.

Yeah I didn't quite word that correctly

 

[Duneaux Harm]

The fine details of this game do not matter. The truth is that if this team was truly to guarantee they are different than the last four years they needed to win this game at home before a somewhat more passionate fan base than they had been having. Great Leap Forward teams simply do that. The bandwagon is still undergoing pre trip preparation right now and may or may not be able to take on passengers.

 

[snaphook297]

The crowd and zoo have some work
To do to reach jamie era intensity . Yesterday was a step forward. Some intense moments .

 

[Pittisit4me]

Not sure if Hinson was tired or what, but we sure could have used a couple of those free throws he clanged off the front rim.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

The crowd and zoo have some work
To do to reach jamie era intensity . Yesterday was a step forward. Some intense moments .

It will take several seasons of excellent play for Pitt to ever recreate , if it’s even possible , the environment that existed in the early Dixon yrs . Pitt had several rivalries in the Big East that just don’t exist in the ACC . What fun times that was , Pitt vs Georgetown, Conn and Syracuse . I hope they can recreate that excitement for the students and current fan base . I stated this before , but the Pete‘s intensity paled in comparison to that of the Field House, but it was pretty good ! .

You can’t keep winning close games against excellent teams , Pitt had its chances to pull away , but couldn’t yesterday . Good teams don’t just give up and go away .

I’ve been a big Burton fan and he’s taken his game to new levels this yr . Pitt finally has some outside threats opening up some space for him to work his magic in the lane .

I know there’s a large contingent that somehow believe Pitts better off without John Hugley , but imagine Pitt with a healthy Hugley down low with the outside presence of Hinson , Elliot and Cummings and Nike ( when there on ) and Burtons midrange game . Pick your poison . Fede just doesn’t have the offensive game for anyone to respect or game plan for .

The injury to Jeffress has put Santos on the court . If Wil would’ve found his shot how much better the depth of this yrs team would be . I always had a good looking rhythmic golf swing and I remember asking my mentor if there were people with good looking swings that aren’t good players , and her answer was yes . That unfortunately is Santos , looks beautiful stroking that ball they just don’t go in !

There won’t be many easy wins in the ACC , UNC and Virginia weren’t expecting to lose to Pitt , Pitt will lose a few games to teams it shouldn’t , but this team can also beat anyone this yr . Keep the faith

 

[PittPharm2002]

I know you dislike calling out the refs after a loss (or even a close win); there were at least two egregious calls: the phantom touch on a ball that went out of bounds in the second half; replay showed the Pitt defender never got close to touching it), and the play in which Hinson blocked the Clemson player's elbow with his jaw. I'm sure others will chirp in and offer a few more I missed.

That said, it appears that as cohesive a Pitt team as we have this year, they seem to lack that killer instinct at the end of the game to put a team away, and keep we fans from clenching our teeth. The Syracuse, UNC, and even the UVA games ended in a much closer final score than they needed to be.

As you said, a 2 wins out of 3 games road trip will be quite acceptable. #11 is a baller

H2P

By the same notion Hinson got bailed out twice by sketchy fouls in the post -
And unfortunately ball didn’t lie

 

[Vader_Storm]

** Before today’s game, I had the pleasure of spending some thoughts and beverages with several of my friends and fellow posters, including @Bethlehemjohn . Like me, John follows both Pitt Hoops and College Hoops very, very closely.

** And for better or worse, John also follows (and participates) in sports betting much more closely that I as well.

** So I asked John whether he had placed any kind of wager on today’s outcome and he rapidly replied he did not want to touch it.

** The line had Pitt at -2 ½ and John just didn’t have a great feeling about this game. As is often the case, he made a pretty good case why this one could go either way.

** And while this shouldn’t make anyone feel any better about the outcome, the long and short of it is that this contest went pretty much as John suggested it would.

** As such, we Panther fans are left to undergo a fascinating, if not completely frustrating exercise in perspective.

** So let’s start that exercise at the top, this being the general assessment of this game at face value. My assessment tells me our Panthers played a pretty good game against a pretty good team.

** For the most part, I watched a team who played well enough to win. Sure, once again we fell behind early, but once Nate hit a shot, we actually led at the half

** But we ground our way to an 8 point, then a 7 point late second half lead. We didn’t lose that lead exactly, but we just couldn’t hit the shots needed to keep it.

** The Tigers way back included two banked in shots, including at least one of which looked like it wasn’t intentional.

** Perhaps a little better thrown ally-ooop pass by Nelly and this one is tied with 10 seconds to go.

** Now here comes the perspective. Is this a completely legit loss by a single digit against a fine foe? Or was this a huge missed opportunity by a team who was not capable of making the one or two more needed plays to win that a better team usually can make?

** Although I will certainly lean hard toward the former, I’m also reminded of many thoughts and posts from January 23 of two years ago when the Panthers followed up a win against Duke at home with a loss against Wake Forest on the road.

** Many, including me, offered perspective after that one point loss, which instead turned out to be the beginning of a 1-8 stretch and a complete team implosion.

** From the best I can tell however, what troubled that team and what drives this one is a completely different set of circumstances. And more simply, Clemson is much better this year than Wake Forest was that year.

** So let’s retreat to the some more objective facts.

** Jamarius is really, really good. It’s hard to think he isn’t playing his way to first team All ACC. And despite a splendid 3-6 from deep this day, I’m not sure I’ve seen a better mid range guard threat in all of college hoops.

** Nate filled in fine, but perhaps we should give up on the notion that he’s a good outside shooter. With each of his three point attempts in the second half, I stood up and yelled “C’mon ONE TIME!” After each time, my son reminded me saying “Dad, we already got our one time in the first half.”

** Off the court, this might have indeed been the first five digit crowd and the Pete since January of 2017. I even got stuck in traffic exciting Oakland on Fifth Avenue.

** Despite the size of the crowd though, I should also say that the crowd wasn’t notably loud in support today. In that sense, I get the notion that much of the Panther Hoops nation is still a little stuck wondering if we should get totally invested behind the Panthers this year.

** In other words, should we really believe in full this edition of the Panthers is on an NCAA tournament path, or do losses like today tell us something else?

** I’m not going to suggest that I certainly have the correct answer to that question. Only time will yield truth.

** For now, I can only otherwise add that I’m grateful that we are playing games that matter at this point, and hope it will continue for the next two months.

** I’m also glad there are reasons to want to get together pregame with PantherLair friends, and as much as losses hurt, I’m glad we are still at the point where losses matter a great deal, and we need to try dissect what they mean.

** Time to go on the road! Here’s hoping our men can find a way to get two of three! Such a result would offer us some really great perspective of this team, even to the point where almost all fans like me can get on board 100% that we've really got something this year.

Our Offensive Efficiency as a team over the course of the last 10 games ranks 10th in the country per Torvik. Yes, you read that right, 10th in the entire country. And this includes one of the worst offensive efficiency players in the entire ACC right now with Santos.


Its the defense that still isn't good enough. But, we are finally doing something really well as a team. We have had less than 8 team turnovers in each of the last 3 games against UNC, Virginia, and Clemson. This needs to continue for our success to continue.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

The fine details of this game do not matter. The truth is that if this team was truly to guarantee they are different than the last four years they needed to win this game at home before a somewhat more passionate fan base than they had been having. Great Leap Forward teams simply do that. The bandwagon is still undergoing pre trip preparation right now and may or may not be able to take on passengers.

Wrong. We won the big games by beating UNC and UVA. Those are the teams with names in college basketball. Those are the teams you gear up to play. For as good as Clemson has played recently, you don’t feel the same against them.

Would you feel better if we beat UNC, lost to UVA and then beat Clemson?

It was not hard to see that this game was in a tough spot for them. High intensity and come from behind victories against 2 great programs. Of course you will have a slight let down. And that is all it takes. Now, time to re-focus because nothing is lost. Keep working hard and get better from the loss. People say that you should not lose to certain teams, but that is really the only way you learn and grow. This team will get better because of this loss that was not a bad loss and was against a very good team.

 

[gary2]

Wrong. We won the big games by beating UNC and UVA. Those are the teams with names in college basketball. Those are the teams you gear up to play. For as good as Clemson has played recently, you don’t feel the same against them.

Would you feel better if we beat UNC, lost to UVA and then beat Clemson?

It was not hard to see that this game was in a tough spot for them. High intensity and come from behind victories against 2 great programs. Of course you will have a slight let down. And that is all it takes. Now, time to re-focus bwciase nothing is lost. Keep working Baer and get better from the loss. People say that you should not lose to certain teams, but that is really the only way you learn and grow. This team will get better because of this loss that was not a bad loss and was against a very good team.

Mostly agree.

Only thing, in this game, Elliott looked like his shot was on. He only had 6 shots. santos had 5. Cummings had 11.

Elliott should have had more shots.

Hell,Nike should have taken more shots.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Mostly agree.

Only thing, in this game, Elliott looked like his shot was on. He only had 6 shots. santos had 5. Cummings had 11.

Elliott should have had more shots.

Hell,Nike should have taken more shots.

And that’s really why we lost
Nelly forced his shots instead of finding others

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

Mostly agree.

Only thing, in this game, Elliott looked like his shot was on. He only had 6 shots. santos had 5. Cummings had 11.

Elliott should have had more shots.

Hell,Nike should have taken more shots.

Elliott is not always a great defender. We have been taking him out at times because Nike is better on that end. Sometimes that decision hurts the offensive end.

 

[UPitthoops]

Mostly agree.

Only thing, in this game, Elliott looked like his shot was on. He only had 6 shots. santos had 5. Cummings had 11.

Elliott should have had more shots.

Hell,Nike should have taken more shots.

And Nelly should have taken less

 

[gary2]

Elliott is not always a great defender. We have been taking him out at times because Nike is better on that end. Sometimes that decision hurts the offensive end.

Elliott played over 32 minutes yesterday. With his shot looking good, he needed more shots.

With the attention being paid to Burton, he should have easily had more shots.