College Football is a mess

[pittbb80]

I know tell me something new right ?

Was talking to a buddy and there’s a rumor that Smart may take the Atlanta Job. It appears the era of NIL has made the job that much harder for even elite schools like Bama Michigan and Georgia.

I’ve also heard that kids are demanding 5k just to go take an official visit.

College football has always been dirty. But when it was under the table the elite schools had a huge advantage. Now managing a roster is near impossible with the transfer rule and Nil. I think that’s why Saban called it quits and is why Harbaugh who on the surface has it made at Michigan is likely to walk

Should be an interesting off season between the pros and college ranks in terms of coaching moves

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

I know tell me something new right ?

Was talking to a buddy and there’s a rumor that Smart may take the Atlanta Job. It appears the era of NIL has made the job that much harder for even elite schools like Bama Michigan and Georgia.

I’ve also heard that kids are demanding 5k just to go take an official visit.

College football has always been dirty. But when it was under the table the elite schools had a huge advantage. Now managing a roster is near impossible with the transfer rule and Nil. I think that’s why Saban called it quits and is why Harbaugh who on the surface has it made at Michigan is likely to walk

Should be an interesting off season between the pros and college ranks in terms of coaching moves

Hey.....the NCAA let this happen. Congress has been telling them for years to get a handle on things, and this is the solution they came up with, because of Title IX fears. This is really the fault of Ed O'Bannion's suit. But the root cause for these sports continue to build in millions of revenue dollars, coaching contracts out the roof, and the players couldn't even legally be bought lunch by someone associated with the school.

 

[BreakingPitt]

Yeah it sucks.
No reason to get excited about anything anymore.
We never know what kind of team we are going to have now.
Get a 4 star, he can leave next fall. Have 1 good season or don't play a season, gone.

 

[pittbb80]

Hey.....the NCAA let this happen. Congress has been telling them for years to get a handle on things, and this is the solution they came up with, because of Title IX fears. This is really the fault of Ed O'Bannion's suit. But the root cause for these sports continue to build in millions of revenue dollars, coaching contracts out the roof, and the players couldn't even legally be bought lunch by someone associated with the school.

Yeah not blaming the players. But it’s crazy.

Just stop the pretense of having student athletes and make the football programs be affiliates of the university’s. Get the NFL to kick I. Some cash for being the minor leagues and do revenue sharing. This really isn’t sustainable

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

the most frustrating part will be, when (IF) we ever do sign a big time 4 star player out of high school that immediately produces, we are going to have to hold our breath every off season while the coaches "re-recruit" him again and again..

 

[Dan1911]

Now that they are paid, they're semi-pro in my eyes. As semi-pro, I see them now as a junior league and inferior to the NFL and not a college game and different.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Yeah it sucks.
No reason to get excited about anything anymore.
We never know what kind of team we are going to have now.
Get a 4 star, he can leave next fall. Have 1 good season or don't play a season, gone.

Losing the 4 star doesn't hurt as much as getting the 1 or 2 star kid who gets developed here, produces big time and then goes to the highest bidder. That's what these FCS schools are facing all the time now.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Yeah it sucks.
No reason to get excited about anything anymore.
We never know what kind of team we are going to have now.
Get a 4 star, he can leave next fall. Have 1 good season or don't play a season, gone.

It is why I propose making these guys "employees" and allowing them to do one of the following:
1) Sign a 1 year contract
2) Sign a 2 year contract
3) Sign a 3 year contract.
4) Sign a 4 year contract.
All other years are year to year.

This allows a player either to bet on himself, or have security, and it gives some forward looking views to their roster, not the now snowglobe shake it all up and where it falls who knows approach that it is now.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I know tell me something new right ?

Was talking to a buddy and there’s a rumor that Smart may take the Atlanta Job. It appears the era of NIL has made the job that much harder for even elite schools like Bama Michigan and Georgia.

I’ve also heard that kids are demanding 5k just to go take an official visit.

College football has always been dirty. But when it was under the table the elite schools had a huge advantage. Now managing a roster is near impossible with the transfer rule and Nil. I think that’s why Saban called it quits and is why Harbaugh who on the surface has it made at Michigan is likely to walk

Should be an interesting off season between the pros and college ranks in terms of coaching moves

5k was two recruiting cycles ago, I believe. It's gone up.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

the most frustrating part will be, when (IF) we ever do sign a big time 4 star player out of high school that immediately produces, we are going to have to hold our breath every off season while the coaches "re-recruit" him again and again..

It's not going to take a big-time 4 star for that to happen; we do that now, with anyone who is worth his weight in salt.

 

[CJsE]

Losing the 4 star doesn't hurt as much as getting the 1 or 2 star kid who gets developed here, produces big time and then goes to the highest bidder. That's what these FCS schools are facing all the time now.

I'm sure it's tough, but why shouldn't the kids have the same opportunity for upward mobility that the coaches have? Hell, it's the same opportunity that other students have. Everyone else in the entire college system is allowed to move on if they over-perform, why should athletes be any different?

Remember, until a few years ago schools were forbidden to provide athletes with multi-year scholarships that guaranteed their security because it benefited the schools.

 

[pittbb80]

I'm sure it's tough, but why shouldn't the kids have the same opportunity for upward mobility that the coaches have? Hell, it's the same opportunity that other students have. Everyone else in the entire college system is allowed to move on if they over-perform, why should athletes be any different?

Remember, until a few years ago schools were forbidden to provide athletes with multi-year scholarships that guaranteed their security because it benefited the schools.

no one is saying the kids shouldn’t have that option but the way it stands now with the transfer rules and nil it’s a mess

What needs to happen is like I said just drop the pretenses of this being college and make it a formal semi pro league with actual contracts.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

As bad as it is now, there's still a formula for Pitt to compete amongst its peers. But if you move to an unlimited free transfers model, in conjunction with schools being able to fund NIL, then forget about that. You'd actually get penalized for identifying/developing just about any talent, because it would just get bought off you. You'd honestly have to consider recruiting guys who are "good but not too good."

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

recruits have been getting paid to take visits to schools well before this NIL business. we've paid kids to come for visits many times, off the record of course..

only difference now is it's acknowledged.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

recruits have been getting paid to take visits to schools well before this NIL business. we've paid kids to come for visits many times, off the record of course..

only difference now is it's acknowledged.

I think the fact that it used to at least be against the rules kept a good bit of it at bay. But now that it's a free for all, everyone is that much more brazen about it and the prices have gone way up.

And these "family friends" are getting in dudes' ears and prompting demands with schools like they're the freaking Rolling Stones negotiating their guarantees for a ten-night stand in MSG.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I think the fact that it used to at least be against the rules kept a good bit of it at bay. But now that it's a free for all, everyone is that much more brazen about it and the prices have gone way up.

And these "family friends" are getting in dudes' ears and prompting demands with schools like they're the freaking Rolling Stones negotiating their guarantees for a ten-night stand in MSG.

no argument from me here..

the only saving grace is that the blue bloods with big pockets cant get all the good players. and not every P5 school is wealthier than us so a lot of the schools that we compete against, have similar challenges and well lets face it, we are better off than the G 5 schools..

So we arent the biggest fish in the pond but we arent the smallest either. We arent going to get top 10-15 recruiting classes with this current structure but we didnt get them either under the last one too.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

no argument from me here..

We're going to have to start loading these recruits' Dave n' Busters cards with more points if we want to compete with the big boys. And these goodie bags we leave on their hotel pillows... hate to say it, but we may need to move to full-sized candy bars in them.

 

[pittzap]

I'm sure it's tough, but why shouldn't the kids have the same opportunity for upward mobility that the coaches have? Hell, it's the same opportunity that other students have. Everyone else in the entire college system is allowed to move on if they over-perform, why should athletes be any different?

Remember, until a few years ago schools were forbidden to provide athletes with multi-year scholarships that guaranteed their security because it benefited the schools.

Fine. Give them the chance to move up. But you can’t let players transfer whenever they want. Make them sit a year unless the head coach leaves or is fired.

The issue, and it seems like Addison started this, is that many players, including starters, will be testing the market every year; basically seeing how much money they get offered. Coaches will have to start allowing players back after hitting the portal, like Narduzzi did this year. You can’t have open transferring and an unmonitored NIL operating at the same time. No sports league in the world does that.

I’m for the players signing a two year contract where you can’t transfer for two years or that you have to sit out a year if you do.

 

[pittzap]

As bad as it is now, there's still a formula for Pitt to compete amongst its peers. But if you move to an unlimited free transfers model, in conjunction with schools being able to fund NIL, then forget about that. You'd actually get penalized for identifying/developing just about any talent, because it would just get bought off you. You'd honestly have to consider recruiting guys who are "good but not too good."

And the schools aren’t the ones paying the players in many instances. So because a school has a rich alum or just even a fan, the school can afford players. It has nothing to do with the school’s success on the field.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

I think the fact that it used to at least be against the rules kept a good bit of it at bay. But now that it's a free for all, everyone is that much more brazen about it and the prices have gone way up.

And these "family friends" are getting in dudes' ears and prompting demands with schools like they're the freaking Rolling Stones negotiating their guarantees for a ten-night stand in MSG.

That's exactly it. I remember when Oklahoma got in trouble with the NCAA because of their QB had a no show job at a Oklahoma car dealership "washing cars" at like $10K a month.

 

[joefromlancaster]

One way this might slow down is if the ncaa instituted domething like the following.
School A recruits and develops a 2vstsr player. After 2 yrs the player blows up.
School B offers him $1 million. School B must also compensate school a 1-2-3- or 4 million dollars for how many years the player was at school A.
If it was one year its 1 million. If it was 4 years than it must reimburse school A 4 million for its investment in the player.

It might slow down the jumping.
It would also compensate the lower schools.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

One way this might slow down is if the ncaa instituted domething like the following.
School A recruits and develops a 2vstsr player. After 2 yrs the player blows up.
School B offers him $1 million. School B must also compensate school a 1-2-3- or 4 million dollars for how many years the player was at school A.
If it was one year its 1 million. If it was 4 years than it must reimburse school A 4 million for its investment in the player.

It might slow down the jumping.
It would also compensate the lower schools.

Then you are restricting trade so to speak.

 

[pittzap]

That's exactly it. I remember when Oklahoma got in trouble with the NCAA because of their QB had a no show job at an Oklahoma car dealership "washing cars" at like $10K a month.

Back in the mid 1990s Pitt lost a few scholarships because they provided “limousine services to recruits.”

What Pitt did was pick up a recruit and his parents at the airport in a University van and drove them to campus for his official visit.

 

[Chem95]

Fine. Give them the chance to move up. But you can’t let players transfer whenever they want. Make them sit a year unless the head coach leaves or is fired.

The issue, and it seems like Addison started this, is that many players, including starters, will be testing the market every year; basically seeing how much money they get offered. Coaches will have to start allowing players back after hitting the portal, like Narduzzi did this year. You can’t have open transferring and an unmonitored NIL operating at the same time. No sports league in the world does that.

I’m for the players signing a two year contract where you can’t transfer for two years or that you have to sit out a year if you do.

I've got news for you. Its coming/its here. And its not getting rolled back. IMO, the only thing that dials it back is when the money dries up. And it will. I think that we are about half way there....once the plums get picked from the ACC...the major stratification of CFB will be mostly complete. Perhaps the Texas and Ohio States of CFB will keep spending. But the Iowas, Wisconsins, Arkansas, etc will starting cashing their checks and putting less and less into their programs too.

 

[PittPharm2002]

I don’t see how anything substantial has changed ,
Other than players actually having the same mobility now that coaches have always had

 

[HailToPitt1985]

This whole thread contains the myriad of many reasons why college sports is now unwatchable and is corrupt. I don't see a reason to root for any college team. I root for Pitt out of habit and because I'm an alum. But my support of Pitt sports is waning because Pitt, as is the case with most schools, is part of the problem. The dilemma is that if Pitt doesn't go along with it, they will be left behind. I'm starting to think that is the best option now.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Fine. Give them the chance to move up. But you can’t let players transfer whenever they want. Make them sit a year unless the head coach leaves or is fired.

The issue, and it seems like Addison started this, is that many players, including starters, will be testing the market every year; basically seeing how much money they get offered. Coaches will have to start allowing players back after hitting the portal, like Narduzzi did this year. You can’t have open transferring and an unmonitored NIL operating at the same time. No sports league in the world does that.

I’m for the players signing a two year contract where you can’t transfer for two years or that you have to sit out a year if you do.

Will you hold coaches to this same standard ?
Probably not
Hence the idea is flawed

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I don’t see how anything substantial has changed ,

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I'm sure it's tough, but why shouldn't the kids have the same opportunity for upward mobility that the coaches have?

They should have the same opportunity as the coaches - I agree.

But, what the NCAA should've done years ago is have the universities make these players employees and create divisions/conferences based upon $$ spent by school.

Let's face it, the majority of college athletes would've struggled to gain admission into these schools as a traditional student.

Make them employees, enroll them as non-traditional students give them educational benefits if they want to use like a college employee would have. Their job title - "entertainer".

Problem solved.

D1 conference example- say they capped salaries at 150k/year per player

• Ohio State
• Texas
• Alabama
• Georgia
• Texas A&M
• Michigan
• USC
• Florida
• Clemson
• Notre Dame

Make all the other conferences based upon lower salary caps per player.

 

[Tiger Paul Lives]

Here is one possible solution to curb the ultra rich boosters from just throwing a ton of money into NIL. Make NIL taxable. I hate the idea of the government getting something out of this, but it is the only idea I have come up with that might have an effect. So as to not effect the the small to even mid/high NIL donor, there is a threshold on how much money a person or entity can give in total to NIL, before a sort of reverse tax kicks in. Let's say this threshold is $100,000 and once that number is eclipsed in total for NIL donations, a tax kicks in. This type of tax is not unheard of. Currently in the US, individuals have a lifetime of tax free giving to other individuals, but there is a limit to how much a person can gift in a lifetime before the gifter begins to get taxed. It's not the gift receiver paying the tax, it is the person making the gift. At one time, I believe the gifter was taxed 50% of eligible gift money exceeding the max. Not sure it is that high now. Not really sure what that threshold is at this time, but it is substantial. So, make it hurt the guy/entity just throwing money at NIL. They will think twice about giving $1,000,000 if they need to pay a 35% tax on $900,000. Not the perfect answer, but an idea.

 

[pittzap]

Will you hold coaches to this same standard ?
Probably not
Hence the idea is flawed

Sure. Don’t allow coaches to leave so easily or without penalty.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Yeah it sucks.
No reason to get excited about anything anymore.
We never know what kind of team we are going to have now.
Get a 4 star, he can leave next fall. Have 1 good season or don't play a season, gone.

I used to be much more interested in college football over the NFL. All of the goings on have flipped it for me to the point where I’ll watch random NFL games but won’t bother watching anything outside of Pitt. And even my interest in Pitt sports is waning heavily.

 

[WillyDavis33]

Can anyone confirm the NIL money shown in On3?

It shows Pitt around 497k

I contend that NIL is changing the playing field!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

the most frustrating part will be, when (IF) we ever do sign a big time 4 star player out of high school that immediately produces, we are going to have to hold our breath every off season while the coaches "re-recruit" him again and again..

The biggest issue is because they arent employees, there are no contracts. If we sign a diamond in the rough like Dion Lewis to a 3 year contract out of HS, he cant go anywhere, not even the NFL. Nowadays maybe he goes to Bama after Year 1. They need to end the charade and make them employees. No one thinks these kids are student-athletes anymore. They are full-time pros taking a few classes.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

could you imagine if they gave contracts that were 3+ years? Scholarships are only 1 year deals. If you did 3 year deals, you'd have to be a much better recruiter.

 

[NCPitt]

no one is saying the kids shouldn’t have that option but the way it stands now with the transfer rules and nil it’s a mess

What needs to happen is like I said just drop the pretenses of this being college and make it a formal semi pro league with actual contracts.

But, what the NCAA should've done years ago is have the universities make these players employees and create divisions/conferences based upon $$ spent by school.

Let's face it, the majority of college athletes would've struggled to gain admission into these schools as a traditional student.

Make them employees, enroll them as non-traditional students give them educational benefits if they want to use like a college employee would have. Their job title - "entertainer".

Problem solved.

You both are essentially saying take the Pittsburgh Maulers and rebrand them with the University of Pittsburgh Maulers/Panthers. Minor league professional football. even affiliated with a school, is still minor league football. I and many fans would have zero interest in that concept.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

You both are essentially saying take the Pittsburgh Maulers and rebrand them with the University of Pittsburgh Maulers/Panthers. Minor league professional football. even affiliated with a school, is still minor league football. I and many fans would have zero interest in that concept.

well - you can always watch D3 football or the academies. I personally prefer watching D3 and Academy Football over D1.

FBS Football is and has always been minor league football.

 

[Upg bobcat]

You both are essentially saying take the Pittsburgh Maulers and rebrand them with the University of Pittsburgh Maulers/Panthers. Minor league professional football. even affiliated with a school, is still minor league football. I and many fans would have zero interest in that concept.

Hate to break it to you, but NCAA D1 has essentially served as as minor league pro football for decades. The "rules" of that minor league required kids to be enrolled in classes, remain academically eligible, etc., and maybe it's time to bend or break those rules, but the NFL has used the NCAA as its free minor league for a long time.

 

[pittdan77]

I don’t see how anything substantial has changed ,
Other than players actually having the same mobility now that coaches have always had

Players at certain schools always got paid. Hell, Pitt even has done it. NIL just made it legal. The ability to transfer moved the market on what it cost, that's all.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

the most frustrating part will be, when (IF) we ever do sign a big time 4 star player out of high school that immediately produces, we are going to have to hold our breath every off season while the coaches "re-recruit" him again and again..

It'll be awesome. We'll be so glad that the player got paid elsewhere because coaches can up and leave at any moment for more money.