Duke Game & Other Dribbles ...

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

But he's recruiting at a B- level and coaching at a D level.

This is a fair assessment.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

It is fairly obvious, unless it was the 80's and the Golden Panthers and Cal were far ahead of their times, Pitt doesn't need a talent recruiter as coach. It needs an X's and O's system coach. We just are not going to be able to not just beat the Duke's and Carolina's, but the $EC has completely upped their game and now takes BB seriously too, the Big 12 is the old ACC or Big East and to complicate matters on the NIL front level, you have BB forward/only schools like Nova, UConn, Xavier, Marquette who's NIL collectives are unencumbered by football, so they can pay $$$ for top players if they choose.

So Pitt is going to have to get a coach who has some system, and get guys who fit and commit to that. Seriously, recruit to shoot and playing decent defense is not a bad way to go.

Recruit to shoot and play good defense sounds a bit familiar?

 

[JS School]

I remember when some of us thought we were getting Duke's third assistant, then were surprised and excited to find out we were getting their first assistant. I guess tenure is sometimes more important than coaching genius in determining who gets to sit next to the HC.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You still need to take back that Pitt is definitely gonna be playing in the NIT. I told you no way. The team sucks. They aren't making any postseason tournaments.

Still saying NIT. No auto bids

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It is fairly obvious, unless it was the 80's and the Golden Panthers and Cal were far ahead of their times, Pitt doesn't need a talent recruiter as coach. It needs an X's and O's system coach. We just are not going to be able to not just beat the Duke's and Carolina's, but the $EC has completely upped their game and now takes BB seriously too, the Big 12 is the old ACC or Big East and to complicate matters on the NIL front level, you have BB forward/only schools like Nova, UConn, Xavier, Marquette who's NIL collectives are unencumbered by football, so they can pay $$$ for top players if they choose.

So Pitt is going to have to get a coach who has some system, and get guys who fit and commit to that. Seriously, recruit to shoot and playing decent defense is not a bad way to go.

Right.

I liked the Capel hire because I thought he'd get mostly Top 100 guys kinda like what Nova used to do. They lived in that 50-100 range and had 3-4 year guys. You cant win like that anymore because of mass transfers so you really dont need a "recruiter." You need an X and O guy who can at least sell to the boosters on who they need to pay. The $$$ does the recruiting.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Agree to a large extent, although talent rising to the top (i.e. the other teams often had more than us) is usually what got us ousted from the tournament in the glory years... so I don't want to never be able to get any high-end talent, but maybe the goal can be to build a good foundation and then go out and buy a player or two when the time is right.

But Capel is like the worst of both worlds. Getting top 75-150 players to Pitt is not all that impressive to me. Dixon did it for years, and even Kevin freaking Stallings brought in Marcus Carr, etc. (you might say he was able to recruit some guys at that level in his sleep). There are coaches who should be able to do that and actually coach.

If Capel were bringing in regular top 25-50 talent (and I'm not talking about Vader's rankings, unfortunately), it would be a different story. But he's recruiting at a B- level and coaching at a D level.

Pitt doesn’t have the NIL support to bring in regular Top 25-50 talent. Pitt’s best path to success is the one outlined by the Chief.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I enjoyed the Frisbee dog show at halftime.

The first half was a truly sobering
debacle. I don't care who transfers out that much. There are a few nice roleplayers who I like but no one that special.

 

[TD_6082]

I refuse to believe there are fans on this board that ever believed Capel would be a good coach. Nobody could be that foolish, could they?

Let the dead weight jobber coach out the string and buy him out when the money is there/makes financial sense.

I will admit to being stupid enough to be okay with moving on from Dixon. I guess that's my fandom Waterloo.

Pitt should have kept Dixon around for
two more years. It wouldn't have helped anything imo, but it would probably have made it apparent that it was time to move on.

There is nothing wrong with wanting more than middle of the conference - tourney bubble basketball.

 

[TD_6082]

I don’t think anyone was excited about his pure X & O coaching ability.

We were excited about his recruiting and ability to bring in NBA level players that could carry the team to the tournament

There was very little evidence he could do that. He flamed out in 5 years at OU.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

The twins have some plus skills but they are physically weak and remarkably soft with the ball.

Right. I see a lot of people saying they need to put on weight, but more so than weight they need muscle. They're soft with handling the ball because they are physically weak.

I know others have said he's not a 5, and if he bulks up it won't fit his game. That's not true at all. What he isn't is a 3 or a stretch 4. He doesn't have the skill for that. He's got plenty of skill for the 5 if he lives in the weight room.

If GDG were 240+ with more muscle, he'd be just fine playing center. In the past he would have redshirted and had 2-3 years to bulk up before playing significant minutes at the 5.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Pitt doesn’t have the NIL support to bring in regular Top 25-50 talent. Pitt’s best path to success is the one outlined by the Chief.

I think you might have just skimmed my post, lol.

But basically, I'm saying you need to build a solid foundation with role players and then go out and pay one or two guys to put you over the top. I'm definitely not suggesting we should be out-recruiting bluebloods or even SEC schools.

 

[TD_6082]

Right. I see a lot of people saying they need to put on weight, but more so than weight they need muscle. They're soft with handling the ball because they are physically weak.

I know others have said he's not a 5, and if he bulks up it won't fit his game. That's not true at all. What he isn't is a 3 or a stretch 4. He doesn't have the skill for that. He's got plenty of skill for the 5 if he lives in the weight room.

If GDG were 240+ with more muscle, he'd be just fine playing center. In the past he would have redshirted and had 2-3 years to bulk up before playing significant minutes at the 5.

There are still some programs that operate that way with the redshirt.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

GDG - 35 percent from the field, 29 percent from 3. 7/5
Fede - 76 percent from the field. 4/4

If the twins were playing that much better than Fede, they’d be playing the entire game.

Run them all off and reset the 5 room

GDG is a better player Fede, and that's not even considering that Fede is 2 years older and stronger. Give GDG 2 more years and he'll be much better than Fede.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

GDG is a better player Fede, and that's not even considering that Fede is 2 years older and stronger. Give GDG 2 more years and he'll be much better than Fede.

So we have to wait 4 years to have someone much better than Fede? Tough bar there. GDG sucks and should transfer down with his brother. There’s a reason neither was recruited by any P6 schools and there’s a reason Fede was dropped from 2. None of the 3 are good enough.

He will be a junior next year. Will he be able to play with the Duke’s, UNc’s of the world next year? If not, we need to recruit over him.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I enjoyed the Frisbee dog show at halftime.

The first half was a truly sobering
debacle. I don't care who transfers out that much. There are a few nice roleplayers who I like but no one that special.

I still think Lowe is the best of the bunch. If coached by a competent coach, he could be something special. But I doubt we'll see that happen, mainly because it's a good possibility he'll be gone next year to another school. The rest of them are no more than mid-major players or borderline P6 guys. But with Pitt lacking coaching to help them, they're doomed unless they all transfer.

I read on here about all of these great recruits in this class....Carrington, Lowe, Barnes. Now talk about Kante. I question how good they really are and if Capel is even a good judge of player talent. With the exception of Lowe who I still think has some potential. Bub has been inconsistent. Coaching makes a difference.

I'm sorry I missed the frisbee dog show at halftime. That would have definitely been the highlight of the night.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

So we have to wait 4 years to have someone much better than Fede? Tough bar there. GDG sucks and should transfer down with his brother. There’s a reason neither was recruited by any P6 schools and there’s a reason Fede was dropped from 2. None of the 3 are good enough.

I said he's already better. That's not even debatable.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I said he's already better. That's not even debatable.

Wow. Quite the bar. He still sucks.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Wow. Quite the bar. He still sucks.

He's the best they have. If anyone gets run off, it will be Fede.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

My concern going forward, knowing this year is a lost cause, is that we may not have enough players on scholarship next year to fill out a roster. The portal might help. But it takes someone who is able to spot that talent and recruit it better than the other guy and to have the money. That's where my doubts begin.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

He's the best they have. If anyone get run off, it will be Fede.

Fede will be a senior next year and is fine with being a backup apparently. If he’s cheap and willing to come off the bench, you obviously keep a 24 year old Fede.

I already said in this thread they should run both off and find better though. GDG has been atrocious in ACC games. Don’t care what he does v Florida Gulf Coast. He’s not worth the extra scholarship to keep his dead weight brother either. They are MM - players

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Agree to a large extent, although talent rising to the top (i.e. the other teams often had more than us) is usually what got us ousted from the tournament in the glory years... so I don't want to never be able to get any high-end talent, but maybe the goal can be to build a good foundation and then go out and buy a player or two when the time is right.

But Capel is like the worst of both worlds. Getting top 75-150 players to Pitt is not all that impressive to me. Dixon did it for years, and even Kevin freaking Stallings brought in Marcus Carr, etc. (you might say he was able to recruit some guys at that level in his sleep). There are coaches who should be able to do that and actually coach.

If Capel were bringing in regular top 25-50 talent (and I'm not talking about Vader's rankings, unfortunately), it would be a different story. But he's recruiting at a B- level and coaching at a D level.

In what world are you living in ? ( 25-50 talent )

Theres no coach in the world whose coming in here and recruiting like a Kentucky or Duke who doesn’t have suitcases full of cash .

Pitt only had that level of talent when the Golden Panthers were in full bloom . Guess what , Pitts administration put an end to that pay for play mentality. THEY DON’T CARE ENOUGH TO DO WHAT IT TAKES !

Any highly sought after HC isn’t coming in here unless that NIL fund is substantial. One million isn’t going to get it done .

Bottom line , Pitt doesn’t have enough deep pocketed boosters

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I read on here about all of these great recruits in this class....Carrington, Lowe, Barnes. Now talk about Kante. I question how good they really are

Using 2018 level thinking. They are great recruits who would play a little as freshmen, start as sophomores, and maybe become all league or plus-leve players as juniors or seniors. But 0 of these will players will be here as seniors and maybe only 2 as sophomores. If you sign a freshman, the kid better be ready to give you positive contributions from Day 1 or else what's the point. Any random 23 year old dude from the MAAC is better than the 95th ranked freshman. Age means SO MUCH in basketball. Pitt needs to stay old and if that means you strike out in the portal one year, so be it. We should be turning over our team almost every year by signing 4th and 5th year guys. That's gotta be our thing. Stay old. It worked last year.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

I was merely comparing because you said DT has been hard on them. They simply haven’t been up to snuff either.

My comment about DT has no bearing on how I perceive their lacking as bigs.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

In what world are you living in ? ( 25-50 talent )

Theres no coach in the world whose coming in here and recruiting like a Kentucky or Duke who doesn’t have suitcases full of cash .

Pitt only had that level of talent when the Golden Panthers were in full bloom . Guess what , Pitts administration put an end to that pay for play mentality. THEY DON’T CARE ENOUGH TO DO WHAT IT TAKES !

Any highly sought after HC isn’t coming in here unless that NIL fund is substantial. One million isn’t going to get it done .

Bottom line , Pitt doesn’t have enough deep pocketed boosters

First of all, I said if Capel were bringing that in; it was a hypothetical. If he would have landed some of the rumored names, particularly early in his tenure, then maybe his style of coaching would have translated a little better.

But, as an aside, Adams, Birch, Taylor, Taft, Blair, plenty of close calls (Heron, Rowan, etc.), etc. were that. So don't act like it's absolutely impossible. Obviously it's a little different now with NIL.

 

[Protes]

I still think Lowe is the best of the bunch. If coached by a competent coach, he could be something special. But I doubt we'll see that happen, mainly because it's a good possibility he'll be gone next year to another school. The rest of them are no more than mid-major players or borderline P6 guys. But with Pitt lacking coaching to help them, they're doomed unless they all transfer.

I read on here about all of these great recruits in this class....Carrington, Lowe, Barnes. Now talk about Kante. I question how good they really are and if Capel is even a good judge of player talent. With the exception of Lowe who I still think has some potential. Bub has been inconsistent. Coaching makes a difference.

I'm sorry I missed the frisbee dog show at halftime. That would have definitely been the highlight of the night.

If we can't hold on to these two, we might as well close up shop. Certainly, should be the end of HCJC.

Btw, did anyone see when the TV camera panned to Bub, Sr.? If only we could read minds. He certainly looked displeased to say the least.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

In what world are you living in ? ( 25-50 talent )

Theres no coach in the world whose coming in here and recruiting like a Kentucky or Duke who doesn’t have suitcases full of cash .

Pitt only had that level of talent when the Golden Panthers were in full bloom . Guess what , Pitts administration put an end to that pay for play mentality. THEY DON’T CARE ENOUGH TO DO WHAT IT TAKES !

Any highly sought after HC isn’t coming in here unless that NIL fund is substantial. One million isn’t going to get it done .

Bottom line , Pitt doesn’t have enough deep pocketed boosters

Well the thing is, not like the Golden Panthers were a bunch of internet billionaires. They were mostly decently successful guys, but not David Tepper or even Chris whatever his last name is level. The advantage then.............the price of tea in China went way up. Occasionally some bags of money, maybe a car, but not 6 figure let alone 7 figure numbers. And back then rarely a 5 figure. So while Pitt did it back then, they did it better than most. Now, it is like MLB. In the 80's the Pirates payroll was fairly close to the Yankees and Dodgers. Now? They are in a different stratosphere. That is now what we are seeing in college FB and BB.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Well the thing is, not like the Golden Panthers were a bunch of internet billionaires. They were mostly decently successful guys, but not David Tepper or even Chris whatever his last name is level. The advantage then.............the price of tea in China went way up. Occasionally some bags of money, maybe a car, but not 6 figure let alone 7 figure numbers. And back then rarely a 5 figure. So while Pitt did it back then, they did it better than most. Now, it is like MLB. In the 80's the Pirates payroll was fairly close to the Yankees and Dodgers. Now? They are in a different stratosphere. That is now what we are seeing in college FB and BB.

Exactly , if you want the best talent ( then or now ) one way or another you had to pay for it and outbid other suitors .

With “ legalized “ payments permitted the cost to party has gone way up !

That’s why expecting Pitt to seriously compete under their current NIL financial position is ludicrous.

 

[pittbb80]

Some really good discussion here

I think for Pitt to be competitive you need a coach who has a system on offense and defense AND can develop players. The lack of an offensive system has been discussed so I won’t go there (ie Capels simply is pass the ball around the perimeter and chuck up a 3 ). At least last year they had some men who could get to the rack and break down the defense. They don’t have that this year

The biggest issue is they simply don’t develop players. Name a big who has improved under Capel. Hell name anyone who has improved. Jeffers inability to make a shot after this many years is stunning. He still has no handle. What the heck are they working on with him. ?

Nate Santos was horrible here offensively. Suddenly at Dayton he’s putting up decent numbers. I get it some of that is level of completion but Nate did nothing here against lower level competition. Now magically under different coaching he’s improved

The bigs have no post moves, no ability to pump fake and no ability to box out How can a guy with some athleticism like Fede not have developed some basic offensive skills.?

Capel will get another year. For sure For sure they need to add more talent, mostly older more mature guys who have already developed their games. I don’t think they’ll get a kid like Thomas who is a finished product to come here. However for this team to drastically improve they’ll need guys like Bub, Lowe and whatever bigs remain to develop and improve. History says the odds of the current players making the improvement needed to field a winning aCC team are not good

 

[Fsgolfdr]

First of all, I said if Capel were bringing that in; it was a hypothetical. If he would have landed some of the rumored names, particularly early in his tenure, then maybe his style of coaching would have translated a little better.

But, as an aside, Adams, Birch, Taylor, Taft, Blair, plenty of close calls (Heron, Rowan, etc.), etc. were that. So don't act like it's absolutely impossible. Obviously it's a little different now with NIL.

Pitt did lose both Heron and Rowan to better deals !

I agree , It’s not impossible, but highly unlikely .

How many schools who want to win turn themselves in to the NCAA to try and save a few bucks ? Or by sabotaging their coach by expelling their best player right before the season starts .

 

[TD_6082]

Exactly , if you want the best talent ( then or now ) one way or another you had to pay for it and outbid other suitors .

With “ legalized “ payments permitted the cost to party has gone way up !

That’s why expecting Pitt to seriously compete under their current NIL financial position is ludicrous.

Agree about seriously competing with other elite schools in football. (Regardless, this past year's product was completely unacceptable)

They can, and should do a lot better in basketball. And I'm totally a Pitt football first fan.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

If we can't hold on to these two, we might as well close up shop. Certainly, should be the end of HCJC.

Btw, did anyone see when the TV camera panned to Bub, Sr.? If only we could read minds. He certainly looked displeased to say the least.

I was at the game so I didn't see what the TV was showing. But if I were Bub's father, I wouldn't be pleased at all. And it's not his son's fault.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Some really good discussion here

I think for Pitt to be competitive you need a coach who has a system on offense and defense AND can develop players. The lack of an offensive system has been discussed so I won’t go there (ie Capels simply is pass the ball around the perimeter and chuck up a 3 ). At least last year they had some men who could get to the rack and break down the defense. They don’t have that this year

The biggest issue is they simply don’t develop players. Name a big who has improved under Capel. Hell name anyone who has improved. Jeffers inability to make a shot after this many years is stunning. He still has no handle. What the heck are they working on with him. ?

Nate Santos was horrible here offensively. Suddenly at Dayton he’s putting up decent numbers. I get it some of that is level of completion but Nate did nothing here against lower level competition. Now magically under different coaching he’s improved

The bigs have no post moves, no ability to pump fake and no ability to box out How can a guy with some athleticism like Fede not have developed some basic offensive skills.?

Capel will get another year. For sure For sure they need to add more talent, mostly older more mature guys who have already developed their games. I don’t think they’ll get a kid like Thomas who is a finished product to come here. However for this team to drastically improve they’ll need guys like Bub, Lowe and whatever bigs remain to develop and improve. History says the odds of the current players making the improvement needed to field a winning aCC team are not good

When you talk about a Nate Santos improving at Dayton, what is the variable present for his improvement between the 2 teams. Just sayin'.

 

[PittPharm2002]

When you talk about a Nate Santos improving at Dayton, what is the variable present for his improvement between the 2 teams. Just sayin'.

Well we’ve seen Trey and others flame out after leaving as well
So it’s a pretty silly argument

X and Toney were really good here and elsewhere
Just with much more talented teammates

 

[HailToPitt1985]

If we can't hold on to these two, we might as well close up shop. Certainly, should be the end of HCJC.

Btw, did anyone see when the TV camera panned to Bub, Sr.? If only we could read minds. He certainly looked displeased to say the least.

I'm not saying we'll lose them. Only that with the circumstances we currently have at Pitt and the coaching inadequacies and NIL money, I could see it happening and I wouldn't blame them for leaving. I hope they don't. But I also hope we get a coaching staff in here that can recruit and develop players. It's not an ideal scenario in either case. They might leave and unfortunately, we're stuck with Capel and staff for at least another year.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I was at the game so I didn't see what the TV was showing. But if I were Bub's father, I wouldn't be pleased at all. And it's not his son's fault.

Well let's be honest here. Bub Jr's main problem was himself. Most of the shots he missed early were wide open jumpers. His play was pretty bad last night, and most of it wasn't on the coach.

 

[MorningCoffee13]

I have lost track and don’t remember. I think it was two seasons back when we all said the buyout was too high. I know it would go down with each season. Where is the buyout now if Heather (not likely) decides to pursue another coach?

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Well let's be honest here. Bub Jr's main problem was himself. Most of the shots he missed early were wide open jumpers. His play was pretty bad last night, and most of it wasn't on the coach.

I agree. Bub played pretty badly for most of the night. I think his ability has been overstated by so many people. Bub can't be expected to perform that well against the middle to top teams in the ACC. He's not ready for that or that good, at least not yet.

A better coach could develop whatever talent he has. And he is talented. That's the dilemma that Pitt has now and I'm sure that's what Bub's father was thinking. Forget the one Duke game. This has been happening too often with this coaching staff.

 

[Protes]

Well let's be honest here. Bub Jr's main problem was himself. Most of the shots he missed early were wide open jumpers. His play was pretty bad last night, and most of it wasn't on the coach.

I don't recall a lot of open shots. I do recall a lot of forced, off-balance shots. Might have to watch again to see.

 

[TD_6082]

If we can't hold on to these two, we might as well close up shop. Certainly, should be the end of HCJC.

Btw, did anyone see when the TV camera panned to Bub, Sr.? If only we could read minds. He certainly looked displeased to say the least.

It's fair to criticize Capel for not winning enough, but in this era, players can bolt for any reason, and I don't think it's fair to hold the coach responsible.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I don't recall a lot of open shots. I do recall a lot of forced, off-balance shots. Might have to watch again to see.

His first 3 or 4 shots were open jumpers. Duke was in Blake's hip pocket most of the game, but Bub had some space early.