Between the Steelers and pens -
May be time for a fire sale -
Let Omar Kahn and kyle Dubas rebuild
Pat - you’re close too
May be time for a fire sale -
Let Omar Kahn and kyle Dubas rebuild
Pat - you’re close too
Fire sale in pittsburgh time
- Thread starter PittPharm2002
- Start date
People bashing Kenny but been saying all year that the offensive talent around him is among the worst in the NFL. The WRs are beyond awful per NFL standards. The TE is the definition of average when he can play. The OL sucks. The RBs are below average. They should build Kenny a statue for having the team in the playoff hunt. I dont watch a ton of NFL but I cant imagine a team out there with worse offensive players than the Steelers. Its not a HC issue, its not an OC issue, its a talent issue and I can say that as an objective non-Steelers fan who really doesnt care if they win or lose.
The patriots and jets have worse talent
But we are definitely among the worst few
Defense is harder to judge A but I do think teryl Austin sucks too
I will take your word for it but our offensive players are so bad. I dont follow it enough to know why. Dont know if its been bad drafting like did they pass on other guys? I know the Harris pick was disastrous and I said that in real time. You don't draft a RB in the 1st unless you are sure he is a game-changing generational talent. I wouldn’t draft Bettis in his prime in the 1st Round next year if they could reincarnate him. The RB position in the NFL is much too dependent on the OL and then you have all-world LBs waiting for you. A good college RB can do more for you in college than a good NFL RB can do for you.
The Steelers have a ton of issues on offense. Very similar to Pitt. I am not sure how many of their starters are above average NFL starter-talent. 0???
The Giants have worse WR’s than the Steelers and a WAY worse OL, yet Tommy freaking DeVito has thrown more TD passes in 4 games than Pickett has thrown all season. There are quite a few problems with this Steelers team from coaching on down, and QB is one of the big ones. None of the 3 guys they have on the roster are very good, and unfortunately I see the same 3 probably being there next season.
I promise you that Kenny Pickett is better than Tommy DeVito.
I think you get a 1st for TJ, 2nd for Minkah and 4th for Pickens. I’d also be selling Highsmith, Diontae and Najee. Really, no one is safe, make your best offer.
I think you might be able to get a 1st and two 2nds (random guess) for Watt.
I also forgot to include Tomlin, who should be the first one traded.
Funny I just mentioned trade value re: Tomlin in the other thread. His time may be expiring (or expired) here but he’s still highly thought of.
Also mentioned - any team would be out of their minds to give up anything for DJ.
Don’t think Najee has much trade value either.
I don't mind keeping Najee, because they aren't getting squat for him and I don't think he's a culture problem.
I could easily see trading Tomlin to the Giants, Redskins, Panthers... something like that.
Tepper is a freaking moron so that’s a trade that may be possible. Word is he wants to go after BB
So to be clear -
Your plan is to lose talent for a ton of dead cap space - and trade two guys on rookie contracts for , reasons ?
Najee will be in an option year soon , and frankly like you said isn’t a problem .
Pickens is on a rookie deal for 2 more years - so it would be idiotic to shop him .
Folks talking about watt, Minkah , and highsmith - aren’t being logical .
That’s $48.3 mil in dead salary cap space
It would be insanity and kill the franchise for 3 years
It doesn't all have to be done in one offseason. Move Johnson this year, Pickens next, etc.
Guys I'd be building the team around would be Highsmith, Porter Jr., Friermuth, Pickett (for now), Najee/Harris, Jones, Benton, and a few others. That isn't to say they're all good players... I'm just saying they're young enough and seemingly not problematic in the locker room.
He’s not a culture problem, yet. I don’t think they’re picking up his 5th year option for 7 million bucks. So, he may become an issue when he realizes Pittsburgh isn’t paying him.
Yeah, I'd have to look at the cap space issue for some of these guys. But if you're replacing them with draft picks it doesn't become as much of a problem, honestly. Like if you move Watt, you can still replace him with a quality draft pick whose contract + the dead money is still less than what you'd pay Watt. I don't think the cap is a huge issue in a rebuild; it's more about positioning yourself for a window.
$18.7 mil in dead cap space if you move watt after the season . $9.3m if you wait another year - there is no replacing him with draft picks from a value perspective
Highsmith literally just got extended and is a huge bargain -since he’s only $9.6 mil in dead cap next year . I really like Herbig but Highsmith is a core piece for the future
Minkah isn’t even worth discussing , similarly to watt - because he’s $20m in dead cap space , and likewise is a young core piece to build around.
Kazee and the other safeties aren’t good enough . Should make folks appreciate a bit more how well Minkah and Edmunds complimented each others games
Frankly - I think teryl Austin absolutely stinks as a DC .
This entire coaching staff is underwhelming
If you're not going to field a competitive team for the duration of Watt's tenure here, the dead cap hit doesn't matter. I'm not looking to replace an apple with an apple. Obviously you're not going to find that production right away; its about replacing him with someone who figures to be around when this team can actually compete.
I agree on Highsmith... I've not suggested trading him.
Minkah... I'm fine with keeping him, as you'd need some veteran presence.
And yes - I'd blow the whole staff up. It honestly wouldn't even be a good ACC staff. It's incredible this is the staff of a professional football team.
Speaking of Herbig…has he zero coverage skills? Great motor but NFL offensive tackles are not B1G tackles. See what he can do in the middle. He’s an athlete.
Minkah is not young. Watt isn't either. This is the biggest problem the Steelers have. The offense is not close to good enough to contend. By the time they fix it, Heyward will be retired and Watt + Minkah will be past their primes. They have invested a lot of draft picks in the offense in recent years. And most of the players suck. They are in a spot where if they don't draft defense early that unit will be horrible in a few years. Blowing this thing up might be the only way out.
Agree - I think "blow up the whole roster" is usually just fan fantasy land talk, but what's a legitimate alternative in this case? Look at some of the recent first 4 round draft picks since they hit big on Watt:
2018: Edmunds, James Washington, Rudolph, Okorafor
2019: Bush, Dionate Johnson, Layne, Snell
2020: Claypool, Highsmith, McFarland, Dotson (did get Minkah for a 1st, so that's a big hit)
2021: Harris, Friermuth, Green, Moore, Buddy Johnson
2022: Pickett, Pickens, Leal, Austin
I mean, who of the guys who are still here are really making any waves?
Rudolph... not good enough to crack a poor QB lineup
Okorafor... not good enough to crack a poor OL rotation
Diontae Johnson... inconsistent; might do well in a better culture
Minkah... yeah
Highsmith... yeah
Harris... Underwhelming
Friermuth.... Underwhelming, mostly
Moore... Sucks
Pickett.... No comment
Pickens... I'm still not convinced he's as good as people think
Leal... Hear almost nothing about him
Austin... Hear almost nothing about him
The 2023 draft looked great on paper, but it's not like anyone from that is dominating yet, either (it's early - I get it).
So you're talking about an average of less than one hit per first 4 rounds of five consecutive drafts. I mean, you have to recognize that the talent just isn't there. Rather than playing this game of draft capital seesaw between the offense and the defense, maybe it's time to try something else.
If we keep it up with this patchwork approach, we have zero chance to be anything but a team that has to fight tooth and nail to be something in the vicinity of .500. No thanks.
Kevin Colbert no doubt did not do a very good job lately .
Omar’s draft seems substantially better in year 1 impacts and PT, plus his FA rebuilding of the MLBers and some OL depth
I’d point out Minkah was drafted in 2018 - so he’s pretty young
Omar Kahn? Tomlin has more power with the Steelers than he does. Should Rooney move on from Tomlin?
I love this idea. If Tomlin is as beloved and a commodity that people say he is, then there should be a bidding war for him. There will be 8 teams looking for coaches. Get it done Art.
He doesn’t
See the other thread
And yes I think it’s time for an entirely new coaching staff
What teams run schemes that would benefit from a player like Watt? He'll be 30 next season. The Steelers would be extremely lucky to get a first round pick for him.
Tomlin would have to choose a team he would want to coach next season. Only then could a trade be worked out. And I don't know why Tomlin would want to coach another team next season
Well yeah -
I’d do that for DJ too
And muth
But we aren’t likely to get that .
Dj is a free agent after next season
Well it would be Omar getting it done
Art would have to approve the deal , though
Art isn’t wheeling and dealing anything
I could see art screwing it up by sending Tomlin to his friends with the Giants or Panthers for a handshake.
He wouldn't, at any of the 31 NORMAL TEAMS, there is accountability, and you aren't "coach for life"
I don't know; I could probably think of 32 or so that wouldn't mind having a dude on the short-list for defensive player of the year and could probably figure out something to do with him. But that's just a rough estimate.
Khalil Mack was like 27 when he was traded for two 1sts, a 3rd, and a 6th. Watt just turned 29.
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Mack was 27. Watt will be 30. How many teams still run a 3-4? Can Watt play DE in a 4-3? The Steelers would be very lucky to get a first round pick for him
Okay, Watt will also be 50. Someday. But, like I said, he just turned 29.
And...
https://steelersdepot.com/2020/08/the-steelers-arent-a-3-4-defense-anymore-not-that-it-matters/
It's a hilarious joke how the Steelers can't change anything ever. I remember in the early 80s, teams were going to the 3-4 and the Steelers where always 4-3 and it was like oh no! We can never be 3-4! Oh my God the sky is falling, they went to 3-4
I’d consider trading Pickens if a team gives up a late first, like the Chiefs. Other than that guys will be cut, new players will be signed then additions via the draft. No major trades will happen. Cam could be asked to be cut to play for a chance at a SB somewhere else in 2024 and that’d free up $16 million. That scenario has little chance of happening though.
