The revisionist history is that Kenny was actually good before his final season. He really wasn't much better than mediocre until the last year. All signs point to the conclusion that his final season was in fact an aberration.
Jaylen Warren - Yikes!
- Thread starter steelcurtain55.
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This is totally wrong by any objective measure and it an absolute ignorant take.
Uh until his senior year he had crap talent around him and was constantly facing jail breaks. Hmmm sounds similar to his tenure with the Steelers.
Amazing how qb improves when he’s not constantly running for his life and has some talented recovered to throw to as well as a running game to keep teams honest
You better go back and delete a bunch of your comments from KP's first 3 years. You know - the ones like Pickett sucks, deer in the headlights, can't play in the rain, etc. Too funny.
The revisionist history with Kenny is way over board. He had one outstanding season. The best since Marino’s junior season. But to say he had more than one outstanding season is being dishonest. No doubt some of that has to do with the constant OC shuffling.
But what bothers me the most is the people that have been the most vocal about defending Kenny were some of his biggest critics before his fifth season. As you said, if you look back into the archives of those posters you will see the criticism of Kenny. It wasn’t pretty.
They need to let it go…
My Gawd, if you have time to go back and review the achieves on a college football message board, I sincerely hope that your Parole Board hearing is coming up soon.
Unlike some I’ve admitted I was wrong. Thats what intelligent people do when they get more data that proves their prior assessment to be wrong.
KP has played well when he’s gotten protection and had a decent OC.
So you weren’t intelligent enough to see what was happening the first 3 years? I think I’ll pass on your evaluations.
Other than his low TD rate, Kenny was not remotely close to being one of the historically worst QBs we've ever seen play the game by any reasonable interpretation.
I refuse to believe that you think that good offensive coaching is overrated. You simply can't be that dumb. How do you explain guys like Tua and Jared Goff (twice now, on two different teams) basically going from complete garbage to being some of the best QBs in the NFL when they got professional offensive coaching? How do you explain every single QB on the Steelers playing significantly worse under Matt Canada than without him? How about the Steelers going an NFL record 58 games without getting 40 yards and then immediately doing it the week they fired Canada?
No rookie QB can or should be expected to "handle (their OC's) ineptitude." It's a complete fallacy.
Again, the pro-Pickett people aren't saying he was blameless or did everything to earn a starting job in 2024. We're saying that the Steelers' pitiful offensive coaching resources, lack of development, and lack of offensive talent meant that basically every QB who played or would have played for the Steelers in 2021-2023 was doing so with a hand tied behind their back. That seems objectively true given how they handled their moves on the offensive side of the ball this offseason.
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Coaching does matter. But, are we saying in the last 7 years all KP's OC's minus his 5th year of college were just garbage? Or is it that KP is just an average QB who in his 5th year struck gold?
In terms of Goff. During his 2nd season he threw for 28 TD's and 7 ints under Matt LaFleur. LaFleur left and went to Tennessee with middling results. Was that because they had Mariotta at QB? Rodgers obviously produced under him. Love seems to be turning a leaf as a prospect. But, Rodgers has always produced.
The only thing we know is the Steelers coaches thought they had to bring in a new QB. We also know KP's teammates were actively recruiting Russ while KP was under contract. I've said this a dozen times, that if KP was drafted in the 3rd round or later, he probably still has his job with the Steelers. The Steelers by virtually every draft analyst said they reached with KP. This created unrealistic expectations. I said this before too that Canada wasn't good enough to elevate KP and KP wasn't good enough to elevate Canada.
Wait. Steeler coaches thought they had to bring in a new QB? Was this because Kenny was bad or was there simply an opportunity to bring in a 40 million dollar vet for the league minimum and thus improve the QB room as a whole? That’s good business.
All you need to know is this…Rudolph, the guy you gush over as a Kenny replacement, was a 5 yard per attempt guy during the Coach Randy/Coach Canada era and then jumped to 9.5 yards per attempt after Canada was fired.
Kenny was a 6 yard per attempt guy and jumped to 8 yards after Canada was fired.
If you can’t see what an offense and a coordinator means to a QB, then it’s hopeless. I mean, an all pro or a HOFer would surely have better production than what Kenny or Mitch had in Canadas offense. Mitch had the tendency to turn the ball over too much and Kenny was a somewhat limited QB with a massive leash around his neck. But would an all pro/HOF/veteran QB have been 7-2 like Kenny? Maybe.
I don’t feel bad for Kenny or Mitch. Sure they had the unfortunate circumstance of playing for the worst OC in history…but Mitch has made decent money and Kenny should at some point get the chance to play for a contract.
I'm saying that Matt Canada is not an NFL OC. He was hired because he's Tomlin's buddy and Tomlin doesn't know anything about modern NFL offense. Canada is the worst NFL OC I've ever seen and I'm willing to bet money he never gets another NFL OC job. He was horrible. I don't have strong convictions of why he worked in college but I know for sure why he failed in the NFL (e.g., last in play action passing, only throwing to sideline/not utilizing MOF, extremely predictable playcalling, not giving QB hot-routes, etc.). He was the antithesis of what it takes to be successful in the NFL, particularly in the passing game.
Pickett is a guy who is probably not a long-term NFL starter. He is obviously talented enough to succeed given the right circumstances (e.g., 5th year, WR1, QB-friendly scheme) and on small volume in the NFL (e.g., all of the 4th quarter comebacks). I just think that if you're going to do what the Steelers did, which is draft a guy with the worst NFL OC of all time, no OL, at least 1 headcase WR, no first team reps in 2022 and then throw him to the wolves and expect him to "rise above it" to see if he's got that dog in him or whatever, then you sorely misunderstand modern NFL quarterbacking and you just shouldn't draft him in the first place.
McVay is the guy for the Rams but even by your own standards Matt LaFleur seems to know what he's doing. See also, all the other NFL offensive coordinators who crush it no matter who is at QB/the QB rescuers (Shanahan, McVay, Reid, Ben Johnson, Kevin O'Connel) and the ones whose offenses completely suck no matter who is at QB unless they have a Hall of Fame guy in his prime (Tomlin and Belichik).
Disagree with your contention that Pickett was a massive reach. He had a 1st round grade by all of the organizations that I follow. He showed some positive signs (e.g., win rate, not taking sacks, not turning the ball over). He was trending up after Canada was fired. Had Canada been fired after 2022, maybe the result would be different. In any event, whether he was worth a 1st or not originally, the Steelers clearly torpedoed that investment by forcing him into what was essentially a process guaranteed to fail.
Again, a rookie QB shouldn't have to "elevate" an NFL OC. That's a completely insane expectation.
I agree
I agree but he's always going to have built in reasons that could displace his ability to be a quality player. Every team has headcases especially WR's. Most teams go through pass protection issues at some point in every season.
I agree with most of this but even Tomlin and Belichik have been productive without Ben and Brady - see Leftwich, Batch, Mac Jones (2021), Cassell (2008). More times then not the QB makes the coordinator and not the other way around.
In terms of statistical output, the Steelers’ offense is dreadful, and Pickett is a large reason why. He ranks 26th in passer rating, 21st in yards, and 32nd in QBR. To continue, the Steelers are also second in the NFL in bad throws, 30th in on-target percentage, and 21st in intended air yards per pass attempt. This means that even though the Steelers aren’t throwing the ball downfield, Pickett is still struggling to complete passes. To add onto this depressing reality, Pickett is also 29th in EPA/play, 32nd in success rate, and 33rd in EPA + CPOE composite. Statistically, he is a bottom-five quarterback in football.
Here's the thing. I agree, but you should at least some glimpses in 2 years of some dominant play aka Will Levis. Will Levis might suck but I've seen him do things this past year that I've yet to see KP do at this level.
I don't "gush" over anyone, especially Mason Rudolph. The players on the team seemed to "gush" like he was the one they wanted starting the whole time.
Here we go back in circles again. They didn’t gush over Mason. There were quotes that were taken out of context or embellished and reporting that was embellished. Surely you’re not this gullible. I know by all the other things that you post here that you’re not, but on this issue for whatever reason you are. Maybe you are Gerry Dulac.
Ok…aside from the steeler QB room of last year…
This Russell Wilson thing is really bizarre. When have we ever had two contrasting storylines like the one we have with him. In Denver he was the worst human and teammate ever. In Seattle things soured too. Now in Pittsburgh someone is working hard behind the scenes and leaking stories to the press in a really bizarre effort to rehabilitate his image. Now hes the best teammate ever. It’s really weird. Maybe the thomas Tull stuff is true.
This Russell Wilson thing is really bizarre. When have we ever had two contrasting storylines like the one we have with him. In Denver he was the worst human and teammate ever. In Seattle things soured too. Now in Pittsburgh someone is working hard behind the scenes and leaking stories to the press in a really bizarre effort to rehabilitate his image. Now hes the best teammate ever. It’s really weird. Maybe the thomas Tull stuff is true.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I think all NFL teams do this but especially when so much is riding on one move. However, Wilson's camp has always pushed this "work ethic/leadership" storyline. Not sure if it is to counter all of the negatives or what, exactly. Honestly, nobody in that locker room gives two shits if the guy has a good work ethic or not given some of the clown shows that Tomlin has allowed. If the Steelers don't win, we'll hear just the opposite pretty quickly.
It’s called a PR campaign
That’s why you see all this crap trying to rehabilitate his image …”Wilson is washing the team laundry for free… bestest teammate evah!!! He delivers the groceries to the staff and even gives back massages”
PR
That’s why you see all this crap trying to rehabilitate his image …”Wilson is washing the team laundry for free… bestest teammate evah!!! He delivers the groceries to the staff and even gives back massages”
PR
Someone care to explain how we go from a curtain jerker quarterback, who just happened to be 7-2 in games he started and finished, to upgrading the QB room significantly, strengthened the Oline and brought in a new coordinator…and national “experts” who some here hold in such high regard are predicting a losing record?????
Funny how that works.
Funny how that works.
You've played sports. And you're a bright enough guy to realize people say all kinds of shit.
It's easy to talk when someone leaves. This would have been eye opening had he said it while Pickett was here.
Funny enough Denver's saying the same shit about Wilson.
Fields on the other hand seems to get rave reviews regardless.
I don't worry too much about what various media people say, because most of them are idiots. Even the local guys we know here who actually work for outfits whose names we recognize are by and large idiots. I'm not going to give credence to a bunch of other idiots who don't live here and likely have little knowledge of the actual team.
I think there was general animosity in the locker room the past 2 seasons and KP being QB1 was in the crosshairs.
Was it a fair point though? What cross hairs was Kenny caught up in? I could pull 1000 positive quotes about Kenny from his teammates and I don’t need to cherry pick a few embellished negative nuggets put out by media on social media. The OP is a perfect example of a nothing burger that has spurned all kinds of unnecessary discussion. I’m shocked that anyone would find it profound and/or interesting.
What Curtain is failing to understand is that as far as some of the vets going out and recruiting Wilson, that’s understandable as well. The mistake the Steelers made was bringing back Canada. In hindsight surely the Steelers know that was a mistake. But what it did was set back the Steelers a year, set back the development of a young QB, and guys like Heyward know his clock is ticking. When you have a former all pro you can get at league minimum, you’re gonna go after him.
I’m still baffled that in spite of perceived improvement of the QB room, and improvement of the Oline and coordinator spot, the same so called experts predict a far worse season for the Steelers than what they were last year. Weird.
Been saying this for weeks - the wise guys in Vegas didn't move the needle one bit on over/under wins and odds to win Division, AFC, Superbowl, etc. That's all you need to know regarding this great offseason of the Wizard of Khan.
Exactly.
But I am bullish on Khan. The Steelers were far away from contention last year. They tried to patchwork the Oline the best they could but was not going to be able to do it in one offseason. The interior pass protection was awful. Now they have had 2 off seasons and it should be better. There will still be growing pains with 2 young tackles and a young center. There’s tons of inexperience there. But you did accelerate the experience of the QB ten fold and I completely understand the rationale.
If there was animosity the past two seasons, I'd bet it was with the OC and his sh!t offense.
You can "think" all you want, but none of us know what the locker room was like.
I like Khan as well but people are going way overboard with this offseason moves. To me it was just business as usual, cheap signings that anyone could have made, a ILB that was under market value, and a pretty solid draft.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
If there really was "general animosity" in the locker room then it circles back to coaching. I don't think great coaches allow a culture where that is even possible.
Ok…just heard Mark Schereth’s comments about the 2024 Steelers. He says that fields was #1 and Wilson was #2 in the entire NFL in time the ball was in their hands. Because of that, he predicts the Steelers will finish under .500 for the first time under Tomlin.
Imagine those two guys with our offensive line last year. Lol.
Imagine those two guys with our offensive line last year. Lol.
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