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OT - PENS ........

He was at the morning skate, because the Trib had a little blurb that afternoon about who was playing and they said that Poulin probably wasn't playing because he was one of the last people who took the skate to leave the ice, and that usually means that a player is getting scratched.

I just looked to see if I could find the story still on their site, but it does not look like it is still there anymore.
My point about Poulin. Look, I have no illusions about him. In fact, I don't know if he will even be a Tanner Glass, a Cody Glass or a George Glass (bonus points for the reference). I think he, like most late first rd NHL picks is nothing more than roster filler. But.....when you aren't going to win, these are guys you have to find out about and then just outright cast away and not hold on to that Pirates like hope.
 
He was at the morning skate, because the Trib had a little blurb that afternoon about who was playing and they said that Poulin probably wasn't playing because he was one of the last people who took the skate to leave the ice, and that usually means that a player is getting scratched.

I just looked to see if I could find the story still on their site, but it does not look like it is still there anymore.
I'll take your word for it and would still say given the circumstances, that holding Poulin out Monday night and playing the other 12 forwards that had all been there, letting Poulin get in another practice and playing him the very next game was not an indictment of poor coaching or player utilization by Sullivan ..... as I said in one of my posts above, I'm looking forward to seeing the young prospects play and see what they have (Ponomarev called up today, let him get in a practice or two and put him in the lineup).
 
I'll take your word for it and would still say given the circumstances, that holding Poulin out Monday night and playing the other 12 forwards that had all been there, letting Poulin get in another practice and playing him the very next game was not an indictment of poor coaching or player utilization by Sullivan ..... as I said in one of my posts above, I'm looking forward to seeing the young prospects play and see what they have (Ponomarev called up today).
What is confounding, when Sullivan took over for Johnson, he relied on rookie and young vets from WBS like Murray, Rust, Guentzel, the German dude, Scotty Wilson, etc..... Now......a veteran can make 20 minus shifts with turnovers in a row and he gets shift #21 and a rookie if there is one mistake on his shift, even if he is not at fault, gets banished to the press box for weeks.
 
What is confounding, when Sullivan took over for Johnson, he relied on rookie and young vets from WBS like Murray, Rust, Guentzel, the German dude, Scotty Wilson, etc..... Now......a veteran can make 20 minus shifts with turnovers in a row and he gets shift #21 and a rookie if there is one mistake on his shift, even if he is not at fault, gets banished to the press box for weeks.
Agree and I think we will see more of the young guys play this season especially if Dubas trades off more veterans plus injuries seem to be happening ....... In Sullivan's defense, I don't think we have had young players like Rust, Guentzel, Murray in our minor league system for a while ..... we may have a few now and like you said, we need to find out if they can play !
 
Real question with Sid is does he want to stick around for the rebuilding process and finish his last prime years playing on a losing team. Yeah the story book of finishing his career with the Pens sounds good and all but honestly I can’t see him wanting to do that

Sid would be the easiest guy to move and get significant assets for. If you move him first that may be enough for the rest of them to wave their no trade clauses and dump salary and get something in return

The question is is ownership and Dubas ready to go all in on the rebuild or are they dust tinkering around the edges still.
 
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The Pens recalled Pickering today.
Interesting, it seems like there should be a corresponding move with this? Eight defenseman now, unless someone is hurt you would think there is a trade happening.
 
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The Pens recalled Pickering today.
Interesting, it seems like there should be a corresponding move with this? Eight defenseman now, unless someone is hurt you would think there is a trade happening.
A trade would not be surprising but apparently Letang is out tonight with an "illness" and not sure how long he will be out .... since they have back to back games tonight and tomorrow maybe they want 7 D-man available if Letang is out more than one game ..... not sure if anyone is hurt that we don't know about.
 
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This team is pathetic. Karlson is total bag of horse dung. Dude gives zero effort and is just going through the motions.
 
Agree and I think we will see more of the young guys play this season especially if Dubas trades off more veterans plus injuries seem to be happening ....... In Sullivan's defense, I don't think we have had young players like Rust, Guentzel, Murray in our minor league system for a while ..... we may have a few now and like you said, we need to find out if they can play !
Not unless they fire Sullivan. He plays crappy vets. Young players who need to be evaluated? Not so much.
 
Not unless they fire Sullivan. He plays crappy vets. Young players who need to be evaluated? Not so much.
The solution is to not give him the option to play the vets. If you trade or release enough of Rakell, Acciari, Bunting, Beauvillier, Nieto, Glass, and Lizotte. He has no choice but to play the young guys you replace them with on the roster. You do the same with the defenseman and he has no choice but to play Pickering (if he’s ready. ) Trade either Nedeljkovic or Jarry (I doubt you can) and he has no choice but to play Blomqvist.
 
We barely beat a bad San Jose Sharks team the other night, 4-3 in a SO, after blowing a 3-0 lead earlier in the game ...... but I enjoyed seeing some of the younger guys who were recently called up play ....... hard to say how they will turn out long term and will have to see them in more games...... thought Ponomarev played a decent game and looked pretty good, he can skate, played pretty well in all 3 zones, is competitive, good positionally, has some skills as well as a high hockey IQ ..... my initial impression was that he could possibly become a middle 6 forward in the NHL ....... he meshed well with Acciari and Nieto ....... Pickering is 20 y/o, played Junior A last season and I think ~12 games at WBS this season, I thought he held his own on the third defensive line against the Sharks .....he is inexperienced and still fairly early in his development but he can skate, kept things simple, was not overwhelmed in the game, defended pretty well, was positionally basically sound, had an assist, and I think has a future in the NHL ...... Poulin has played 3 games and has not individually stood out but his line with DOC and Puljujarvi has actually meshed and done well so I want to see more of them.

I would love to see more of these young guys play but when the injured players are back, the ice time of the young guys will likely diminish at the NHL level and some may well be sent back down to WBS.

Tampa Bay tomorrow night.
 
Could be true
But is it this game ?
35 shots on goal with 33 saves isn’t bad

Only getting 19 shots on goal going into OT does blow
making a lot of saves and even making some good ones doesn’t excuse the soft goals

I’ll let Goaliman comment as he’s the expert but imo thr OT goal was awful and the second goal was soft
 
making a lot of saves and even making some good ones doesn’t excuse the soft goals

I’ll let Goaliman comment as he’s the expert but imo thr OT goal was awful and the second goal was soft
I didn’t watch -
But getting peppered regularly and only giving up 2 regulation goals seems reasonable
I mean valsiksky gave up 2 goals on 19 shots .
Does he also suck ?
 
Could be true
But is it this game ?
35 shots on goal with 33 saves isn’t bad

Only getting 19 shots on goal going into OT does blow
Yeah that was a horrible misplay in OT and yes sometimes goalies are allowed to steal games, but the Pens were outshot 2:1 and Jarry faced some grade A chances. You can say also without Jarry, it would have been a 4-2 regulation loss.

Man, I said on another forum. Everyone focuses on Jarry because in Pittsburgh, everything seems to be about the goalie. But Sid is 37, not 25. Never in NHL history has a player been better or equal at 37 then 25. Geno is 38. Letang is 37. Karlsson is 35. These guys are on the downside of their career.

There are alot of spoiled hockey fans in this town...but what is happening with the Penguins is not unique. Soon after the Pens beat the Wings in 2009, Lidstrom, Zetterburg, Datsyuk, Franzen entered their mid 30's and well. The Blackhawks hit the wall even sooner when Toews, Keith and Kane hit 30. The Bruins are now experiencing the same with Bergeron retired, Marchand I think is as old as Sid, Father Time wins all bets.

Sidney Crosby is not Sid the kid. Is he still a good player? Sure, but he even looks like he has lost something from last year. Geno has bursts, but nothing consistent. Letang is done, expired and Karlsson doesn't even look like he is trying.

I am all for the Fire Sully camp and bring in a more disciplined approach. That can cause two positives IMO, 1) teach young players how to be responsible like a Therrien did and 2) chase away Vets who have pretty much have had their run of things and don't want to change the way they play which in turn brings in younger players.

The Pens are going to finish somewhere in the bottom 5-7. I would rather see that with guys like Pickering learning the league that a bad nostalgia show like REO Speedwagon playing the Fayette County Fair.
 
Yeah that was a horrible misplay in OT and yes sometimes goalies are allowed to steal games, but the Pens were outshot 2:1 and Jarry faced some grade A chances. You can say also without Jarry, it would have been a 4-2 regulation loss.

Man, I said on another forum. Everyone focuses on Jarry because in Pittsburgh, everything seems to be about the goalie. But Sid is 37, not 25. Never in NHL history has a player been better or equal at 37 then 25. Geno is 38. Letang is 37. Karlsson is 35. These guys are on the downside of their career.

There are alot of spoiled hockey fans in this town...but what is happening with the Penguins is not unique. Soon after the Pens beat the Wings in 2009, Lidstrom, Zetterburg, Datsyuk, Franzen entered their mid 30's and well. The Blackhawks hit the wall even sooner when Toews, Keith and Kane hit 30. The Bruins are now experiencing the same with Bergeron retired, Marchand I think is as old as Sid, Father Time wins all bets.

Sidney Crosby is not Sid the kid. Is he still a good player? Sure, but he even looks like he has lost something from last year. Geno has bursts, but nothing consistent. Letang is done, expired and Karlsson doesn't even look like he is trying.

I am all for the Fire Sully camp and bring in a more disciplined approach. That can cause two positives IMO, 1) teach young players how to be responsible like a Therrien did and 2) chase away Vets who have pretty much have had their run of things and don't want to change the way they play which in turn brings in younger players.

The Pens are going to finish somewhere in the bottom 5-7. I would rather see that with guys like Pickering learning the league that a bad nostalgia show like REO Speedwagon playing the Fayette County Fair.
Yeah I get your point about making a bunch of grade A stops and keeping the Pens in the game, but IMO its like a short stop who makes spectacular plays and then botches a routine grounder or has a throwing error that allows the winning run. In the end is there really any difference?

For sure the issues go beyond the goalie i.e., who is giving up the grade A scoring chances? So yeah the entire team is flawed from the top 6 to the Goalie(s).

Its why I think they need to have a heart to heart with Sid. Hes literally the only guy who could still land significant returns. Does he want to go through a rebuild or have one last chance to win a cup? IMO I think he'd take the latter.
 
Yeah I get your point about making a bunch of grade A stops and keeping the Pens in the game, but IMO its like a short stop who makes spectacular plays and then botches a routine grounder or has a throwing error that allows the winning run. In the end is there really any difference?

For sure the issues go beyond the goalie i.e., who is giving up the grade A scoring chances? So yeah the entire team is flawed from the top 6 to the Goalie(s).

It’s why I think they need to have a heart to heart with Sid. Hes literally the only guy who could still land significant returns. Does he want to go through a rebuild or have one last chance to win a cup? IMO I think he'd take the latter.
Sid has earned the right and respect to go out on his own terms .

He’ll want to pass the torch the same way Mario did to him .

The defense players and structure are the primary problem , not goalie .
Jarry hasn’t been good for some time - but he’s on an island constantly , so are the others .
That’s a recipe for losing
 
Yeah I get your point about making a bunch of grade A stops and keeping the Pens in the game, but IMO its like a short stop who makes spectacular plays and then botches a routine grounder or has a throwing error that allows the winning run. In the end is there really any difference?

For sure the issues go beyond the goalie i.e., who is giving up the grade A scoring chances? So yeah the entire team is flawed from the top 6 to the Goalie(s).

Its why I think they need to have a heart to heart with Sid. Hes literally the only guy who could still land significant returns. Does he want to go through a rebuild or have one last chance to win a cup? IMO I think he'd take the latter.
Yeah....well one thing, "Clutch" and "Jarry" are usually not contained in the same paragraph let alone sentence.
 
- All of you made some good points earlier today.

- So far this team has just been bad all around ...... offensively (23rd in league in goals/game at 2.67), defensively (32nd in the league at 3.86), and goaltending (terrible advanced stats ..... TJ 46th and 52nd out of 57 goalies in dSV% and GSAx respectively, Ned 50th and 51st, Blomqvist was 29th and 28th) ...... so not just one area as a problem (bad offensively, horrible defensively, and poor goaltending for sure).

- Regarding last nights game against Tampa Bay ..... TB controlled most of the game with puck possession in the offensive zone, Pens were in the game after 2 periods (and actually ahead 2-0) because Jarry was OUTSTANDING (All-Star level good)! ...... for 2 periods and 5 minutes of the 3rd period TJ was GREAT but in the last 15 minutes of the 3rd period and OT he was bad ...... "pittbb80" is correct that Goals 2 and 3 for TB were very bad goals, and even Goal 1 could have been played better with a much higher chance of a save.

- If you look at Goals 2 and 3 and ask whether it was mainly the defenses vs TJ's fault ...... they both were basically on TJ ..... Goal 1 was on both the defense and probably to a lesser extent Jarry.

- Goal 2 - TB skater took control of the puck behind the net and carried it out in front of the goal line on the glove side, he tries to make a bad angle pass through the crease from below the circle toward a teammate ..... TJ is in the rVH position on the near (glove side) post and appropriately tries to stop the pass from going through the crease with his stick, but he has his stick in a poor and awkward position, the puck hits the heel of his blade, jumps up into the air and into his own net (he deflected the puck into his own net) ...... problem was poor stick technique in the rVH position by the goalie.

- Goal 3 (in OT) - there is a pass to a TB player above the circles in the center of the ice and TJ is in good position at the center top of the crease, the puck carrier takes the puck into the left circle and tries to shoot from around the face off dot area, all TJ has to do is simply shuffle one or two strides to his right under good control and butterfly if the shot comes in, instead he power pushes to his right and can't control his slide and goes past the corner of the crease (where he wants to be) and ends up far outside the crease, in the meantime Crosby back checks the puck carrier and the TB player loses control of the puck (never gets a shot off) which goes forward behind the goal line right to B. Point, TJ is now 5-6 feet outside the crease and Point wraps the puck around the near post and into an empty net ...... all TJ had to do when the TB player had the puck at the top of the crease (and TJ was in good position at the top of the crease) was shuffle one or two strides to his right (which would have kept his movement under good control/balance) and butterfly when the TB player was near the face off dot trying to shoot and then slide back into the rVH position on the near post when the puck went to Point behind the goal line ..... no way Point scores if Jarry does that .... problem was poor angles, positioning, movement by the goalie.

- Goal 1 - Point beats Grzelcyk down the left wing and circles behind the net, doesn't try to wrap around or take a bad angle shot but comes around the net all the way into the low slot area (no Pen is there to pick him up) in line with the face off dot from the right circle and scores on an excellent back hand shot between TJ's left elbow and the near post ....... TJ was initially in good position in the rVH position on the glove side but as Point continues around into the slot, TJ stays too long in the rVH position and is now exposed to the far post ..... when Point shoots, TJ butterflies on the goal line and exposes the near post where the puck goes in ...... what TJ should have done was be in the rVH position as Point came out from behind the net and when Point continued toward the slot, TJ need to get out of the rVH position and telescope out as close to the corner of the crease as he could ..... if he does this, his chance of making a save goes WAY up (the shot very likely hits him in the chest) ...... problem for TJ again was poor angles, positioning, movement by the goalie.

- The entire team is bad and everyone is the reason we are losing NOT just the goalie ..... again in last night's game specifically, TJ was so good for the 1st 2 periods + and was the reason the Pens were in the game, but in the last 15 minutes of the 3rd period and OT, he was a significant part of the loss ..... there is enough blame to go around.

- Pickering in his 2 games, looks better than Graves so far to me ....... Poulin played better last night and the line of Puljujarvi-DOC-Poulin is doing pretty well ....... Ponomarev looks like an NHL player ...... play the young guys !
 
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I'm not rewriting history, 4yrs ago I said the pens should get rid of Malkin and Letang. Y so afraid to turn the page? I don't understand it. I will not watch 1 second this year. Nothing has changed over last 3-4 years. Nothing to look forward to. No players to watch grow and develop. Maybe just maybe they can get that 8th playoff spot. Smh......
 
- All of you made some good points earlier today.

- So far this team has just been bad all around ...... offensively (23rd in league in goals/game at 2.67), defensively (32nd in the league at 3.86), and goaltending (terrible advanced stats ..... TJ 46th and 52nd out of 57 goalies in dSV% and GSAx respectively, Ned 50th and 51st, Blomqvist was 29th and 28th) ...... so not just one area as a problem (bad offensively, horrible defensively, and poor goaltending for sure).

- Regarding last nights game against Tampa Bay ..... TB controlled most of the game with puck possession in the offensive zone, Pens were in the game after 2 periods (and actually ahead 2-0) because Jarry was OUTSTANDING (All-Star level good)! ...... for 2 periods and 5 minutes of the 3rd period TJ was GREAT but in the last 15 minutes of the 3rd period and OT he was bad ...... "pittbb80" is correct that Goals 2 and 3 for TB were very bad goals, and even Goal 1 could have been played better with a much higher chance of a save.

- If you look at Goals 2 and 3 and ask whether it was mainly the defenses vs TJ's fault ...... they both were basically on TJ ..... Goal 1 was on both the defense and probably to a lesser extent Jarry.

- Goal 2 - TB skater took control of the puck behind the net and carried it out in front of the goal line on the glove side, he tries to make a bad angle pass through the crease from below the circle toward a teammate ..... TJ is in the rVH position on the near (glove side) post and appropriately tries to stop the pass from going through the crease with his stick, but he has his stick in a poor and awkward position, the puck hits the heel of his blade, jumps up into the air and into his own net (he deflected the puck into his own net) ...... problem was poor stick technique in the rVH position by the goalie.

- Goal 3 (in OT) - there is a pass to a TB player above the circles in the center of the ice and TJ is in good position at the center top of the crease, the puck carrier takes the puck into the left circle and tries to shoot from around the face off dot area, all TJ has to do is simply shuffle one or two strides to his left under good control and butterfly if the shot comes in, instead he power pushes to his left and can't control his slide and goes past the corner of the crease (where he wants to be) and ends up far outside the crease, in the meantime Crosby back checks the puck carrier and the TB player loses control of the puck (never gets a shot off) which goes forward behind the goal line right to B. Point, TJ is now 5-6 feet outside the crease and Point wraps the puck around the near post and into an empty net ...... all TJ had to do when the TB player had the puck at the top of the crease (and TJ was in good position at the top of the crease) was shuffle one or two strides to his right (which would have kept his movement under good control/balance) and butterfly when the TB player was near the face off dot trying to shoot and then slide back into the rVH position on the near post when the puck went to Point behind the goal line ..... no way Point scores if Jarry does that .... problem was poor angles, positioning, movement by the goalie.

- Goal 1 - Point beats Grzelcyk down the left wing and circles behind the net, doesn't try to wrap around or take a bad angle shot but comes around the net all the way into the low slot area (no Pen is there to pick him up) in line with the face off dot from the right circle and scores on an excellent back hand shot between TJ's left elbow and the near post ....... TJ was initially in good position in the rVH position on the glove side but as Point continues around into the slot, TJ stays too long in the rVH position and is now exposed to the far post ..... when Point shoots, TJ butterflies on the goal line and exposes the near post where the puck goes in ...... what TJ should have done was be in the rVH position as Point came out from behind the net and when Point continued toward the slot, TJ need to get out of the rVH position and telescope out as close to the corner of the crease as he could ..... if he does this, his chance of making a save goes WAY up (the shot very likely hits him in the chest) ...... problem for TJ again was poor angles, positioning, movement by the goalie.

- The entire team is bad and everyone is the reason we are losing NOT just the goalie ..... again in last night's game specifically, TJ was so good for the 1st 2 periods + and was the reason the Pens were in the game, but in the last 15 minutes of the 3rd period and OT, he was a significant part of the loss ..... there is enough blame to go around.

- Pickering in his 2 games, looks better than Graves so far to me ....... Poulin played better last night and the line of Puljujarvi-DOC-Poulin is doing pretty well ....... Ponomarev looks like an NHL player ...... play the young guys !
Managing rVH positioning and getting on your skates and closing angles are super basic concepts. I'm a beer leaguer and do all that.
I played 4v4 drop in last night and played amazing. Got a real nice skate sharpening and I could really dig and push. There were a lot of expletives being said near my net. Some good players couldn't get pucks behind me.
I'm available. League minimum and a Speights Summit Ultra between periods is all it would take.
 
I heard tonight that the Pens have blown 8 2 goal leads and have gone on to lose 5 of those games. I don’t follow the nhl all that closely but I suspect that’s piss poor.
 
I heard tonight that the Pens have blown 8 2 goal leads and have gone on to lose 5 of those games. I don’t follow the nhl all that closely but I suspect that’s piss poor.
It’s been a trend the last two years. Giving up leads that is. Not sure what the stats were last year and the year before but it’s not good
 
Managing rVH positioning and getting on your skates and closing angles are super basic concepts. I'm a beer leaguer and do all that.
I played 4v4 drop in last night and played amazing. Got a real nice skate sharpening and I could really dig and push. There were a lot of expletives being said near my net. Some good players couldn't get pucks behind me.
I'm available. League minimum and a Speights Summit Ultra between periods is all it would take.
My only question is, as a goalie in the New Zealand Beer League have you scored an empty net goal yet ???
 
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Again, I know we have goalies on here and for some reason since Fleury was left unprotected in the expansion draft Penguins fans have this weird obsession with the play of the goaltender and tend to be blind to everything else surrounding them. If the criticism of Jarry is everytime it becomes crunch time, he comes off small, I can't disagree. Not even just in a game, but we have seen him have All Star level seasons then the race for the playoffs happens and he wilts. Obviously that is a problem. It is probably why the Pens should never have offered him such a deal, not just salary but term.

But as I mentioned above, the Red Wings, Blackhawks, Kings and Bruins all who have had alot of success over the past 20 years crashed and burned. The Pens have put it off. I will use another analogy and this involves the Penguins themselves. Mario Lemieux's 1st season was 84-85. 20 years later, Sid came along. Sid is now in his what, 18th year and is 37 years old. When Mario returned in 2000 as a 35 year old, he came in and immediately dominated. But of course, he's Mario Lemieux, the single most physically gifted hockey player in history. Here's the difference between Mario coming back and that team going to the Conference Finals vs Sid the past few seasons. Mario had a Jagr in his prime. Jagr might be one of the 10 best players of all time. Also a Kovalev, a Straka, a Lang all in their primes. Sid's core are all his age or older. It is a long winded way of trying to say......there is nothing in this team's tank. They haven't had a top 10 draft pick since 2012. They have very few 1st rd picks. The well is dry and it needs refilled.
 
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