OT: Pirates Ke'Bryan Hayes a bust?
- Thread starter PittPoker
- Start date
I think both stances can be true.
1) I don't think anyone would sign up for a .230 BAA with single digit HR's to a long term contract. So in that respect, as of now, Hayes looks to be more of a bust than a cornerstone.
2) I looked at other teams salaries, not just overall but the actual individual players, and Hayes would be like the 12th to 16th highest paid player on many, teams if not most. So his contract is not over the top, it just shows how low the Pirates payroll has been over the decades.
There isn't anyone in this thread that has argued that Hayes' offensive production has been good enough. I mean the best Poker can point to is someone saying that overall he has been fine.
Right now he looks to be neither a bust nor a cornerstone. In other words, just like a large percentage of the population of major league baseball players. Fortunately for Hayes, he isn't being paid like a bust. Fortunately for the Pirates, he isn't being paid like a cornerstone either.
Thanks for misrepresenting my post! I’ve stated numerous times that the information your OP, that he was a below average hitter, was demonstrably false. I provided stats to support this point. I even acknowledged he had to hit better later in the thread.
Unlike you, I’m capable of debating shades of gray and can see beyond a binary “bust/stud” mindset that you have.
Hayes got $70 million and is hitting now .222. 2 HR's. He sucks and is a bust. The End.
Also if I recall correctly you were in this thread early on claiming how his last 2 seasons were above average offensively. Am I wrong? I'm too lazy to scroll through them all but I think you were defending his offensive production.
So bottom line we are obviously gonna disagree on this but if it makes you feel better you got your usual likes from the 1 clown who stalked me all over the place for years on here that I finally had to ignore(King person). And FreeportPanther who is now back to liking any post criticizing me. So congrats, just keep making posts that attack me and you'll receive at least a guaranteed 2 likes from those 2. Ego boost.
And in all honesty I have been really bummed today that Drew passed as he was a really good dude on here. Died too young. So I'm not gonna go back and forth with you on this for awhile. Not really in the mood. I made my points, you made your points and got your usual likes. Congrats.
I can figure it out, it is because Newman has a higher average as well. I am not saying that Newman has more potential, but I just can't agree with the statement that Hayes has had a much better career so far, that is not accurate if you step back and look at it, particularly in light of the positions they play. We will agree to disagree, revisit the topic when the numbers are "much better" for Hayes and I will agree on him having a much better career so far.
Look man. I ain’t out here for likes. Just pushing back on bad takes. You claimed erroneously that he was below average the last two seasons. The numbers indicate that this was a false statement.
So far Hayes is a career .253 hitter. That will play, especially since he has produced gold glove caliber defense at 3B.
He is far from a bust, period. The salary he got was fair, and indicative of the kid of deals the Pirates will have to dish out going forward to maximize their lineup and be competitive.
He isn't Babe Ruth or Willie Stargell but he's a piece of what the Pirates are building. He's just fine, and has room to get better when the lineup improves.
He is far from a bust, period. The salary he got was fair, and indicative of the kid of deals the Pirates will have to dish out going forward to maximize their lineup and be competitive.
He isn't Babe Ruth or Willie Stargell but he's a piece of what the Pirates are building. He's just fine, and has room to get better when the lineup improves.
So, he's right in the middle of hitting stats, other than HR's, and first in fielding and assists.
Sounds like a solid player to me!
Hayes is elite defensively.
I don’t care how good his defense is though, it’s completely wiped out by his atrocious offense. If he was even just good defensively he’d be dfa’ed.
And the reality is that mechanically he is a mess. He bails out and has a shoulder hitch that constantly causes him to be late on pitches. He crushes the ball but far too often into the ground and rarely pulls the ball with authority in the air.
Send him down, force a mechanical change like Jose Bautista because the pop is there
I don’t care how good his defense is though, it’s completely wiped out by his atrocious offense. If he was even just good defensively he’d be dfa’ed.
And the reality is that mechanically he is a mess. He bails out and has a shoulder hitch that constantly causes him to be late on pitches. He crushes the ball but far too often into the ground and rarely pulls the ball with authority in the air.
Send him down, force a mechanical change like Jose Bautista because the pop is there
Sounds to me like your standards are low, or otherwise trained from years of mediocrity to be happy with barely average to below average.
Joe, his offense is "way below the line". I mean .220, you can take if he is hitting HR's like Suwinski. But when he is slightly about putting out a pitcher, or worse, Hedges, that is an extreme disappointment.
So he is being paid top 1/3 for third basemen with a good glove and bottom 1/3 offensive skills. Is defense worth that big of a bump in salary? I say no.
He was at .215 two nights ago. No way to sugar coat that. Even Rafael Belliard had a higher average and maybe even more pop.
If he was like 9th or 10th in most categories, with that glove, his contract would look good.
If he had a slash line of say 250/330/400 he would be hyper valuable with 15hr. The problem is his slash is more along the lines of 250/315/355 which is pretty putrid.
His ops plus right now is 70 which is ungodly bad
One of them has 9.0 career WAR and the other has 2.7, even though the guy with the 2.7 has something like 40% more at bats. If you can't see which of those is much better then like I said, might want to sit this one out.
He's a below average hitter. There isn't anyone in this thread who has argued otherwise.
Some of you guys really take this to heart.
It isn't your money!
Would everyone be happier if Nutting hadn't spent the $$$???
You can't rip the guy for being tight, and then rip him for ponying up on a top prospect.
Hayes hitting isn't good, he'd probably be the first to tell you that. He had a decent day at the plate Wednesday. Undoubtedly he's working to turn things around.
But at least he's lights out on defense. Can't argue that!
It isn't your money!
Would everyone be happier if Nutting hadn't spent the $$$???
You can't rip the guy for being tight, and then rip him for ponying up on a top prospect.
Hayes hitting isn't good, he'd probably be the first to tell you that. He had a decent day at the plate Wednesday. Undoubtedly he's working to turn things around.
But at least he's lights out on defense. Can't argue that!
I don’t care how much they spend or don’t, but I don’t want dumb contracts and the Hayes contract was dumb
Um Freeport has and Ski has early in the thread claiming his offensive stats from the past 2 years are good.
His 2 hits Wednesday were grounders that found a hole. That's pretty much his whole offense, hitting balls on the ground and hope they find a hole. His swing is terrible, it's a big loopy looking one and he slices the ball down almost always. It's really shocking to me that nobody has made him fix his swing to any degree.
Again. That’s not what I’ve said. My point from the get go was that your claim he was below average is false when looking at his stats the last two years versus the MLB average. I’ve also acknowledged that he needs to hit better.
And miss out on all of this free entertainment? To each his own I suppose.
Hayes says, Eat it Kenny!!! LOL
Hey, I don't have the ego big enough to have Hayes make me look foolish!!! LOL
HE'S A BUST! HE'S A BUST! 🤡
False. Go back to my first post in this thread.
Just catching up. He’s young. It’s not a lot of money, the Nutting’s just have trained you properly. It was worth the risk for the pirates. Big hit. I’m drunk. Go bucs
You are such a clown. See it more and more from you. You and that loser King guy will be the only ignores now. Coming on here running your mouth because the bust has 1 good game a month.
I thought you got drunk on Wednesday nights! Or is that just during hoops season?
