Pitt @ Wake Game Thread

[Protes]

Be careful with this. Sometimes players need a year or two to get comfortable before the 3s start falling a lot more consistently. Bub was a really good shooter in high school and in the EYBL.

Ill give you 3 examples.

Nate Santos who has been on fire this year and was a strong shooter in high school. He had an nasty acl tear in high school. It took him until his junior year at Dayton to catch fire.

Lamar Patterson who struggled his first few years shooting at Pitt and became a really good shooter. He also was a really good shooter in high school.

Cam Johnson is another one that didn't light the world on fire from 3 his freshmen season. After being a star at North Carolina, he is in the NBA.

Tray Woodall is actually a 4th example. He really struggled early on and was pushing I think around 40% from 3 as an upperclassmen.

I hear you. My comment was in the context of Bub not being a 4-year guy. Like I said, 20 years ago, no way I'm looking to jettison a guy like him. I'm willing to wait for him to get better and better. But if he's only going to be here for one more year...? Then I think we could probably find a better player in the portal over what sophomore Bub will be for us.

 

[gary2]

We are starting 2 freshmen guards, are down to 8 scholarship players, and we sit in 5th place in the ACC right now with a chance for a tournament bid.

Id say we are doing ok here.

Yep

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I want everybody back

I don't. The makeup of this team has to change next year. Hinson is a ridiculous percentage of our reliance. We can't be pissing around wasting scholarships on some of these guys who provide nothing. Plus we just need more chances to hit on a portal scratch-off. I'd like a guy like Sallis or Reid, who actually had some clout and is older now.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

I don't. The makeup of this team has to change next year. Hinson is a ridiculous percentage of our reliance. We can't be pissing around wasting scholarships on some of these guys who provide nothing. Plus we just need more chances to hit on a portal scratch-off. I'd like a guy like Sallis or Reid, who actually had some clout and is older now.

Yup - we need a good 3 point shooter and a big with some size and strength that can be part of our main rotation. If we don’t get any immediate help to the current roster, then we will be treading water at best.

 

[pittbb80]

While I think Bub is far from being an NBA player it’s a bit over the top to be writing him off as a guy who could be a really good player next year for this team. He has some core skills to build on. He needs to hit the weight room first off all and secondly work on his handle and being able to attack the rim. With some hard work he could be really good next year. Right now he’s pretty much a one trick pony

 

[pittbb80]

Yup - we need a good 3 point shooter and a big with some size and strength that can be part of our main rotation. If we don’t get any immediate help to the current roster, then we will be treading water at best.

I think they have enough guys now on the roster to be a good three point shooting team (assuming Bub ish Zach and Lowe improve). but I do think they need to add to the 4/5 spot. They need a guy like Reid who when he gets the ball in the paint or near the rim can be a threat to finish

 

[gary2]

I don't. The makeup of this team has to change next year. Hinson is a ridiculous percentage of our reliance. We can't be pissing around wasting scholarships on some of these guys who provide nothing. Plus we just need more chances to hit on a portal scratch-off. I'd like a guy like Sallis or Reid, who actually had some clout and is older now.

We do need a portal forward who can approximate Blake's scoring. Maybe 14-15 PPG

 

[Vader_Storm]

I don't. The makeup of this team has to change next year. Hinson is a ridiculous percentage of our reliance. We can't be pissing around wasting scholarships on some of these guys who provide nothing. Plus we just need more chances to hit on a portal scratch-off. I'd like a guy like Sallis or Reid, who actually had some clout and is older now.

Have you ever looked at any of our past Pitt players and saw some of their year over year jumps in production?

Ever heard of these guys?

Burton
Champagnie
Toney
Hinson
etc..


I can assure you Jaland Lowe for example will average far more than 8 points per game next year.


Here are a list of players that will not provide much more than they are doing right now.

Fede
Austin
Jeffress

These guys are maxed out already and done.



Guillermo is shooting 39% from 3 this year. Here's a thought. Let Guillermo shoot more and let Austin not shoot at all.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

We do need a portal forward who can approximate Blake's scoring. Maybe 14-15 PPG

We're not going to realistically find a 1:1 replacement for Hinson's offense. We need to fortify multiple spots and just hope to be a more well-rounded team.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Have you ever looked at any of our past Pitt players and saw some of their year over year jumps in production?

Ever heard of these guys?

Burton
Champagnie
Toney
Hinson
etc..


I can assure you Jaland Lowe for example will average far more than 8 points per game next year.


Here are a list of players that will not provide much more than they are doing right now.

Fede
Austin
Jeffress

These guys are maxed out already and done.



Guillermo is shooting 39% from 3 this year. Here's a thought. Let Guillermo shoot more and let Austin not shoot at all.

That's two messages in a row where you're really trying to go bleeding heart mode on me as opposed to debating what I actually said.

So I guess your argument is that we should waste scholarships on guys who provide nothing next season... ?

I never said Lowe wouldn't get better or wouldn't be an integral part of the team next year, ya straw man boxing heavyweight champion.

 

[gary2]

Have you ever looked at any of our past Pitt players and saw some of their year over year jumps in production?

Ever heard of these guys?

Burton
Champagnie
Toney
Hinson
etc..


I can assure you Jaland Lowe for example will average far more than 8 points per game next year.


Here are a list of players that will not provide much more than they are doing right now.

Fede
Austin
Jeffress

These guys are maxed out already and done.



Guillermo is shooting 39% from 3 this year. Here's a thought. Let Guillermo shoot more and let Austin not shoot at all.

Agree on Jeffress. He is leaving. Believe he could have left after first semester but decided to stay.

I would not give up on Fede

I also wonder if Austin was hurt by having such a reduced role. Probably not, but...

 

[Vader_Storm]

That's two messages in a row where you're really trying to go bleeding heart mode on me as opposed to debating what I actually said.

So I guess your argument is that we should waste scholarships on guys who provide nothing next season... ?

I never said Lowe wouldn't get better or wouldn't be an integral part of the team next year, ya straw man boxing heavyweight champion.

I would guess one of Jeffress / Barnes / Austin isnt coming back next year. 2 of them might not come back.


How I see it



Guards

Lowe, Ish, Bub, Cummings

Wing


Forwards

Guillermo, Jorge, Ndiaye (redshirt)


Center

Kante / Fede



Capel has 4 scholarships after looking at that and figuring out what he wants to do with the current wings. Figure out the wing first and foremost. Because his offense is going to launch a ton of 3s again. We need Gregg Elliot. Ill take him as a weak defender, he could knock down 3s at a high level. Austin gets wide open 3s every game and cant do anything because he cant shoot. Guillermo should be getting all of these shots.


OR

Finally move Carrington to the 3, which is what I wanted to do from day 1. And then go after another major guard along with better wing talent. Id also like a bruiser at the 5. Go find Ontario Lett somewhere in the midmajors or juco.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

YOU listed three things more important that our NET ranking the last two times you told us why we got in last year.

Without understanding what you were doing, of course.

If the NCAA picked teams for the tournament based on their NET rankings then we not only would not have gotten in last year, we wouldn't have even come close. Like not even on the bubble close. Like not even good enough to make the NIT close. The fact that you could see that, for a team that you pay so much attention to, and not have any understanding at all what it meant is kind of astounding.

How many times do I have to tell you that we got in because the P6 teams ahead of us had records right around .500 or really effed up their Q1 or Q3/4 (Clem, UNC, Rut)?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Watching Boise/SJSU. Boise up 26 late and announcer conversation saying the same thing about how coaches have told them they have to leave starters in for NET and the coaches dont like it. Joe loves it though.

Also, Boise sucks. They are going to the NCAAT but would go 6-14 in the ACC. They are 0-2 in the ACC this year.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I would guess one of Jeffress / Barnes / Austin isnt coming back next year. 2 of them might not come back.


How I see it



Guards

Lowe, Ish, Bub, Cummings

Wing


Forwards

Guillermo, Jorge, Ndiaye (redshirt)


Center

Kante / Fede



Capel has 4 scholarships after looking at that and figuring out what he wants to do with the current wings. Figure out the wing first and foremost. Because his offense is going to launch a ton of 3s again. We need Gregg Elliot. Ill take him as a weak defender, he could knock down 3s at a high level. Austin gets wide open 3s every game and cant do anything because he cant shoot. Guillermo should be getting all of these shots.


OR

Finally move Carrington to the 3, which is what I wanted to do from day 1. And then go after another major guard along with better wing talent. Id also like a bruiser at the 5. Go find Ontario Lett somewhere in the midmajors or juco.

Guillermo/Jorge/Fede/Kante are too many one-dimensial big men whose dimension is not scoring inside to carry on the roster, in my opinion. Well I don't know that about Kante; I just assume he's going to take at least a year or two develop, given how thin he looks.

But that's too many guys who have zero post game and frankly can't even catch a ball inside and go up strong and dunk it unless there if no defender within five feet. This team's nemesis on offense is its failure to get enough easy buckets.

And stretch fours who can shoot over people are great, but the twins aren't athletic at all. They pop a few against low majors and then all but disappear from out there, save for Guillermo from the top of the key every now and then.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Guillermo/Jorge/Fede/Kante are too many one-dimensial big men whose dimension is not scoring inside to carry on the roster, in my opinion. Well I don't know that about Kante; I just assume he's going to take at least a year or two develop, given how thin he looks.

But that's too many guys who have zero post game and frankly can't even catch a ball inside and go up strong and dunk it unless there if no defender within five feet. This team's nemesis on offense is its failure to get enough easy buckets.

And stretch fours who can shoot over people are great, but the twins aren't athletic at all. They pop a few against low majors and then all but disappear from out there, save for Guillermo from the top of the key every now and then.

Fede and the twins cant all be back. There's still a lot of holes on this roster. I'd bring back Kante and the twins. Guillermo has more upside than Fede. I know some will say he isnt worth keeping Jorge around but I'm fine with Jorge as a "happy" deep reserve who isnt sulking about playing time as many deep reserves do. I definitely think they need to go and bring in a legit P6 big to win the job. An Efton Reid type.

My Center room would be:
GDG
Kante
Good transfer

Guards
Lowe
Bub
Leggett
Cummings

Forwards
Jorge
Jeffress, Austin, Barnes, or Ndiaye (keep 2 of the 4)

Then go out and get 3 transfers:

- shooter (Greg Elliot type)
- scorer (Burton type)
- stretch 4 (Hinson type)

You cant keep all 5 of Jorge, Jeffress, Austin, Barnes, and Ndiaye. That's not even a good mid-major Forward room.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Fede and the twins cant all be back. There's still a lot of holes on this roster. I'd bring back Kante and the twins. Guillermo has more upside than Fede. I know some will say he isnt worth keeping Jorge around but I'm fine with Jorge as a "happy" deep reserve who isnt sulking about playing time as many deep reserves do. I definitely think they need to go and bring in a legit P6 big to win the job. An Efton Reid type.

My Center room would be:
GDG
Kante
Good transfer

Guards
Lowe
Bub
Leggett
Cummings

Forwards
Jorge
Jeffress, Austin, Barnes, or Ndiaye (keep 2 of the 4)

Then go out and get 3 transfers:

- shooter (Greg Elliot type)
- scorer (Burton type)
- stretch 4 (Hinson type)

You cant keep all 5 of Jorge, Jeffress, Austin, Barnes, and Ndiaye. That's not even a good mid-major Forward room.

I'd replace the Burton type scorer with a stout defender down low. Fede and Jeffres (assuming they're both gone) have shut some pretty decent 5's down in certain games over the last two seasons when we needed it. Leggett, Bub, Lowe, and maybe Cummings need to be the creators when it comes to scoring.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I'd replace the Burton type scorer with a stout defender down low. Fede and Jeffres (assuming they're both gone) have shut some pretty decent 5's down in certain games over the last two seasons when we needed it. Leggett, Bub, Lowe, and maybe Cummings need to be the creators when it comes to scoring.

I listed the big man transfer at the top of my post. So 4 transfers altogether. I realize you cant get everything you want but in a perfect world:

- big man
- wing scorer
- shooter
- stretch 4

 

[Phil Indiana CC]

Fede and the twins cant all be back. There's still a lot of holes on this roster. I'd bring back Kante and the twins. Guillermo has more upside than Fede. I know some will say he isnt worth keeping Jorge around but I'm fine with Jorge as a "happy" deep reserve who isnt sulking about playing time as many deep reserves do. I definitely think they need to go and bring in a legit P6 big to win the job. An Efton Reid type.

My Center room would be:
GDG
Kante
Good transfer

Guards
Lowe
Bub
Leggett
Cummings

Forwards
Jorge
Jeffress, Austin, Barnes, or Ndiaye (keep 2 of the 4)

Then go out and get 3 transfers:

- shooter (Greg Elliot type)
- scorer (Burton type)
- stretch 4 (Hinson type)

You cant keep all 5 of Jorge, Jeffress, Austin, Barnes, and Ndiaye. That's not even a good mid-major Forward room.

Did you even watch the Game? Goofus Diaz Graham was useless on the court. His defense is atrocious. He scored 4 points in 21 minutes.

Unless you keep him around to play vs UPJ and the other dented soup cans the Capel Twins schedule, then he needs to pack his bags with Doofus Diaz and hit the road.

Joe wouldn’t even take them here at IUP.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I listed the big man transfer at the top of my post. So 4 transfers altogether. I realize you cant get everything you want but in a perfect world:

- big man
- wing scorer
- shooter
- stretch 4

I guess it depends what a hypothetical transfer 5 and Kante's skill sets both are. I'm assuming at least one of them isn't going to be great at defense.

I want a starter-quality transfer big no matter what, but if Fede and Jeffres both leave I also want a defensive specialist down low.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

The bottom line is that without Blake they can’t shoot well enough to win consistently and having not seen Papa play they’re not stout enough inside to defend or score . Hopefully Cummings helps with the shooting and I think both Lowe and Bub dramatically improve next season , but they need shooters and muscle .

Lowe , Bub , Ish , Papa must keeps

Twins I want them here just not as 5’s

Wil , Fede and Austin time to move on from if they can upgrade . It might just be a matter of economics that they stay .

Brigdes not seeing any court time under this reduced roster is concerning . Not seeing him play I have no idea of his potential.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I guess it depends what a hypothetical transfer 5 and Kante's skill sets both are. I'm assuming at least one of them isn't going to be great at defense.

I want a starter-quality transfer big no matter what, but if Fede and Jeffres both leave I also want a defensive specialist down low.

Yea. Getting a P6-level starting Center is Priority #1. Kante can back-up. Move GDG to the 4. Still need a Hinson replacement

PG - Lowe
SG - Bub
SF - Leggett
PF - Transfer
C - Transfer

Depending on who the transfers are, that can be a very good team. And deep with GDG, Cummings and others off the bench.

 

[pittbb80]

We're not going to realistically find a 1:1 replacement for Hinson's offense. We need to fortify multiple spots and just hope to be a more well-rounded team.

I think you replace Hinson with a guy who can average in the low teens who is a much better defender, rebounder and brings more of an inside presence. As you said that will better compliment what they have returning. No way you can replace Blakes crazy 3 point shooting and scoring.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I think you replace Hinson with a guy who can average in the low teens who is a much better defender, rebounder and brings more of an inside presence. As you said that will better compliment what they have returning. No way you can replace Blakes crazy 3 point shooting and scoring.

Yep, no way we'll replace Blake's 3 point scoring rampage. But we could even do better than that if we get someone who can defend better, score down low and have a better handle all at the same time. Score in the low teens while doing that would be ideal. The team would be better off overall.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

How many times do I have to tell you that we got in because the P6 teams ahead of us had records right around .500 or really effed up their Q1 or Q3/4 (Clem, UNC, Rut)?

I'm going to guess you are going to keep saying it right up until the day that you say to yourself, "wait, hold on a second, that means that there ARE things that are more important than a team's NET ranking".

You keep saying that a team's actual record was more important. You keep saying that a team's record against the Qs, both at the top and at the bottom, were more important. And you keep excluding the non-P6s, which, even if you don't understand it, is a strength of schedule argument, and that that was more important. And then you keep saying that nothing matters except your NET ranking.

I keep thinking that you can't be this dense. But you sure do make me rethink that on a regular basis.