You're starting to sound like my wife! But I have broad shoulders....in any event the tape of my comments watching the game last evening isn't for consumption by the tender ears/minds of minors.
Steelers, Big Ben n Del
- Thread starter NCanton Panther
- Start date
I pointed out what he's done the past 6 years, since those are your current goalposts.
You don't want to use their entire careers.... trust me.... because his performance in three straight road games leading up to Super Bowl 40 was stellar.
You point to individual stats which belie his failure to do anything in the post season which says volumes on his true caliber of play. Hell many of those stats were built in meaningless games. Hell the guy's record against .500 or below opponents the last 5 years is deplorable. The last 6 years he's been an average QB and in the bottom half of the the top ten QBs in the league. For large parts of the last decade Rodgers, Brady, the Mannings, Rivers, Luck and Brees were much better QBs than Fathead.
Its a odd type of situation but if both teams play their best I think the steelers win. Thing is NE plays their best a lot more often than the steelers. The steelers maybe played 2 or 3 complete games a season. NE does it 8 times a season. So the steelers are better when they bring their A game but only bring their a game %20 of the time. NE isn't quite as good(without gronk) but they play their A game %50 of the time. Thats how I see it. Reasonably confident that the Pats will play really well. Give the steelers a %25 to %33 chance of winning.
Found it interesting that this is the Steelers 16th or 17th AFC championship game in the last 40 years. Thats pretty damn impressive %40+ of the time the steelers have been one of the sports final 4 teams.
I said to a buddy this is 4 down territory. Punt and you lose. Perhaps the horrible return actually helped them because they knew at that point punting meant losing. Give them the ball at the 40 and they probably end up punting!
You do realize that brady and Manning are 2 of the top 10 QB's to ever play the game right? And Rodgers is well on his way to join that list. No one has ever argued Ben is at their level. If they were I would agree with you he isn't at that level. Eli Manning however is not the QB that Ben is, although he himself is a likely HOF QB. Rivers is similar to eli without the rings. Luck has had one great season and you are saying he is better than ben because Ben has only had 5 or 6 great seasons! And to back up your idiotic arguement you say that during his last 6 seasons(the worst of his career according to you) he has only been the 5th to 10 th best QB in the league. Sorry but I will take that for another 5 years and be glad to have it. Ben isn't perfect and he isn't going to be mentioned as one of the 10 best QB's ever, but he is still going to be a HOF QB and have at least 3 superbowl appearances and 2 wins.
Interesting way to phrase it, I might quibble a little with your %'s and I'm not sure if the Steelers 'best' is better than the Pats 'best' but I think the general concept is correct. I think it is very reasonable and accurate to state, based on track record, that the Pats have a greater probability of bringing their 'A' game than the Steelers. If the Steelers don't bring something close to their 'A' game on defense, it could spell trouble. And I think there is always a greater chance of Ben not bringing his A or B game than Brady.
And on my last point, that's one reason why I would say UPitt89 is blowing smoke saying Ben's a certain 1st ballot HOF'er. I'd say he's a pretty certain HOF'er at this point but 1st ballot is definitely in question. I think the story still needs to be written on that. If he finishes out the rest of his career with good post-season success, next week being one big opportunity along that path, yeah that would cement his 1st ballot. But if he falters in post season play any number of times the remainder of his career, without offsetting success, he'll take a hit. Voters will tend to remember the most recent history.
Not to mention, currently, when there is a discussion of the elite QBs in the game now, or in recent past, everyone mentions the same names, Manning, Brady, Rodgers. Those are the kind of guys that end up being 1st ballot inductees. And these are discussions by the types of people that do the voting. Ben is always mentioned as a good QB and franchise QB, but very seldom do you hear people putting him in the same company with Manning, Brady and Rodgers. So Ben still has some work to do to cement a 1st ballot induction.
What's even more remarkable is that in that period they have never lost more than 10 games in a season. They haven't had a bad period where they could reload with Top 5 draft picks.
We're talking about HOF QBs allegedly aren't we? Fathead is a slightly above average QB. Yesterday's performance was a disgrace but he gives us a lot of those.
yes we are and there are a lot of HOF QB's who aren't as good as manning, brady or rodgers(assuming he finishes career near the level he has played for most of it) You are acting like the NFL HOF only has 10 Qb's in it. I do agree he isn't a first ballot HOF right now. He could get himself their with one more SB victory or if he can put up good stats for 4 more years. But he will end up in the HOF his career numbers and QB rating are much better than say a eli manning. In fact he is at 9th all time just behind Philip Rivers and Drew Bree's and just ahead of kurt warner and Matt Ryan. He has more SB than Rivers(none) or Bree's(one) and comparable stats. For Ben to not end up in the HOF he would have to be very bad his next few season's by other peoples standards not yours.
You can say he is over rated all you want. I guess last nights game was played in ideal conditions and his receivers didn't drop any passes/touchdowns?
If you don't like the guy that is fine but to call him over rated I just smh and laugh.
Those disliking BR have to think up and down left and right through the whole league and consider who they'd rather have. Forget Brady and Rodgers, we'll agree they are clearly better. And probably 75% of the rest who are clearly below BR and only a mentally challenged person would want. So who is among those left you'd prefer? Wilson? Flacco? Dalton? Ryan? Rivers? Brees? Newton? The Dallas QBs (old and new) ? Alex Smith? Carr? Perhaps a healthy Bridgewater? (Now I'm starting to reach into the 75% territory). I dunno, I see a bunch of flaws and/or age with each, much like BR but he has more rings and SB trips.
Brown would have had a TD but for candy armed Fathead's under thrown pass to Brown where Brown was being covered by a LB. Nice pass, Fathead! Your characterization of the other 2 passes as drops is ludicrous- no one would concur with you on that. The play in the end zone With Brown was no drop- it was a great play by the defender. The Rogers play in the end zone was another off target throw by Fathead that if it were caught would have been miraculous. He's an over rated diva!
At this moment in time you may be right. That's not at the the root of the debate. At other points in this decade many of the players you name and some others who have either retired or are now in the twilight of their careers were better than Fathead. There is a dearth of good QBs in the league now which is why no one is watching the TV games. That fact alone doesn't elevate Fathead's game or his historical status/ranking.
this was the 2nd time in a month the steelers needed 6 field goals to win a game
ben has to be better, based on the way the final 4 quarterbacks have played in these playoffs ben is by far the worst
ben has to be better, based on the way the final 4 quarterbacks have played in these playoffs ben is by far the worst
No you won't. You're a fantasy football guy who reads the boxscore at the end of the night. You have done nothing but bash Ben for the current 2 playoff wins. If he performs the same and they beat NE, why would yoh change your narrative and give him respect? You don't want wins, you want stats. Thankfully the people jn Canton can see more than you. 1st ballot LOCK.
First off, they were only in the redzone 5 times, but 7 makes your narrative look better. And 3 of the 5 barely cross the 20.
Uh OH. AFC divisional playoff game. Indianapolis Colts vs Baltimore Ravens. The GREAT Peyton Manning only scores 5 FG's to win 15-6.
Peyton - 15/30 170 yards. 0 TD's 2 INT's.
Vinnatieri FG's 23, 35, 42, 48, 51
2 redzone failures that required FG's
Oh, Indy went on to win the Super Bowl. Go figure.
Hey, I'm in Canton and can attest that he's not a 1st ballot lock. Do you realize what all goes into that decision. One big thing which makes it near impossible to call him a 1st ballot lick unless his name is Manning or Brady, is who else is in the ballot in his first year.
I didn't think Ben played that poorly, but that INT was absolutely ridiculous. That was the dumbest decision in sports history. It looked like the play call was run and it should've stayed that way. I don't criticize Ben often, but changing that play was a huge mental error.
I'd agree, it looked like he changed the play call when he ended up throwing that tipped INT.
Yeah it was just bad luck that it got tipped, but like the announcers said it happened because Villanueva was still in run block and the guy was free. I wouldn't have cared for a pass play to begin with there. Now idk when Ben called the hot route if Villanueva didn't hear or that just doesn't change what he does, but that ruined a great play by Dupree and shazier defensively.
Btw those who considered me evil incarnate for my comment on the Davis penalty Sunday. This article sums up my thought much more eloquently than my succinct post at the time. I'm sure it changes few minds but it describes the reality of the situation well.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/s...-hit-but-what-else-could-he-do-044957211.html
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/s...-hit-but-what-else-could-he-do-044957211.html
Ok, 7 trips into KC territory and 6 FG's and a Pick-very impressive. Fathead's stats in the "redzone proper"-1-7 for ONE yard and a pick-good job, Fathead. Barely cross the 20-is that so-oh, my,-that makes Fathead's pathetic performance so much more acceptable. First divisional championship game for Fathead in 6 years-he's a legend! And I'm really impressed that Fathead in the first two playoff games led the Steelers AT HOME over a Miami team QBed by their backup and a KC team QBed by everyone's all star, Alex Smith. You want to credit the folks who deserve credit for the first two wins you start with Bell, the Steelers' OL the FG kicker and their defense. Fathead figures in there at the bottom somewhere. But let's not forget he threw a bubble screen to Brown that Brown took about 50 yards to the house-yea, Fathead!
This whole thread is the equivalent of a Pitt fan complaining about Dejuan Blair 8 years ago. The guy is one of the best. Just enjoy it.
Davis, Mitchell and others should do exactly that 10 out of 10 times. Winning the game is more important than any fine the NFL will hand out. No coach should EVER complain about the play Davis made. What will happen is the WR will stop putting himself in that position.
Going to assume we are talking about having the player at the beginning of their career, otherwise I take a guy like Carr or wilson just because they have a lot of years left. So for their careers
Wilson-maybe but he is still incomplete at this point I would take BR but wilson has a few years to go ahead
Flacco- NOpe BR is better
Dalton- Not even close
Ryan- see wilson
Rivers-similar stats but Ben has won a lot more I go with BR
Brees-I go with Brees if I am picking them at their prime.Brees offense is more likely to produce big stats though
Newton-Not at this point he has been in league for what 6 years and only one did he play like a true star.
Luck-see newton think he could surpass Ben but his first 5 years aren't as good combined as Ben's were.
Well, this week will be huge for DEL and all who have an opinion in this thread. I have said earlier how much I like Ben and what he has done for the Steelers. However, I tend to agree with those who would say he is not a 1st ballot Hall-of-Famer. Games like he had last week in KC and the countless losses to sub 500 teams during the regular season are the reason why.
This game will give all a chance to see him against probably the best QB of all time when he is done. Can he go into Foxborough and outplay Brady? It is something that almost no one has been able to do. It is on him this week and he should know it. Our defense can help by limiting them to say 24-28 points which wouldn't be bad against Brady at home. We will need to hit that 30 point mark to win, and that won't happen unless Ben is at his best.
Can't wait to see what type of performance Big Ben delivers!
This game will give all a chance to see him against probably the best QB of all time when he is done. Can he go into Foxborough and outplay Brady? It is something that almost no one has been able to do. It is on him this week and he should know it. Our defense can help by limiting them to say 24-28 points which wouldn't be bad against Brady at home. We will need to hit that 30 point mark to win, and that won't happen unless Ben is at his best.
Can't wait to see what type of performance Big Ben delivers!
Tall order for Pgh to beat New England. In the classic "match up" sense the Steelers have consistently not fared well...offense or defense or ST. Personnel rarely seems to matter either. I just can't expect a win.
It's really too bad...New England actually didn't play great at all last week, seemed oddly out of sorts, and an opponent with a real QB had a real chance to knock them off. Houston's is garbage, so it didn't help them. (No, not dreaming that Savage would have, either).
the NE game does not revolve around Ben...Del and others are going to disappointed. The game revolves around Bell and the OL. Just like it has for the past 10 weeks.
If you think they can win by running the ball with Bell between the 20's and kicking field goals, that would be wrong. If you think they just line up and run New England over, well, that would be wrong to. Should he be a large part of our game plan, absolutely, but getting the ball in the endzone falls on the QB.
That means not always forcing the Ball to AB, as he did when they had 1st and goal at the four. His decision making will have to be sharp as a tack. Belichick is probably the smartest coach in the game, he knows who our playmakers are, and he will have his defense prepared accordingly. He does have a tough decision to make though, in regards to who he would like to take away. After what he saw in KC, he may decide to let Bell get his and try to limit our passing game, hoping that Ben will be mistake prone.
To suggest that this game will not revolve around Ben, is plain silly. Even if he doesn't have to pass for 350 yards to win, he will be responsible for getting them in the right play each and every time, whether it be run or pass. Will Ben be good enough to take what the defense gives without making the big mistakes? It is going to be all about Big Ben!
This certainly is how the league is now for sure. QB-centric. Dynamic WR.
As you noted, KC nearly won by letting Bell roam between the 20s and then stiffening and focusing on fooling BR with coverage and trying to keep arms up to tip passes. It nearly worked, except KC wasn't very dynamic on O at all and Pgh contained their biggest game breaker on ST too. NE ain't the same without 87, but better than KC offensively, and showed last week it could score comfortably (on a fairly decent D) even when not at its best. Keep the Steelers in the 20s and NE'll likely move on.
ben does not deserve to go to the hall of fame unless they beat new england, at that point i don't think you can argue a quarterback with 4 super bowl appearances isn't a hall of famer
miami and KC have to be two of the worst playoff teams ever, beat new england for once
those super bowls were won with defense, you guys like to point out his career numbers well look at his numbers in 2005, 2008, and 2010
those are not super bowl quarterback numbers, his best individual seasons were in years the defense wasn't great and the team did NOTHING in those years
miami and KC have to be two of the worst playoff teams ever, beat new england for once
those super bowls were won with defense, you guys like to point out his career numbers well look at his numbers in 2005, 2008, and 2010
those are not super bowl quarterback numbers, his best individual seasons were in years the defense wasn't great and the team did NOTHING in those years
blair was first team all american
ben has never even been close to an mvp candidate, heck he only one team mvp once
Yea, take Fathead out of the equation; give him a break . How could you ever expect your QB, an allegedHOFer, to be a difference maker in the AFC championship game? Your statement is ridiculous and reflects exactly why Ben is over rated.
I guess we'll see. I think Bell gets 30 carries and about 5-10 catches. The offense revilves around him, he's the best player on the team period.
And he might well get the same Sunday. Between the 20s, again. Can they deliver TDs from that point? They had been doing well in that regard toward seasons end and vs Miami, but KC froze em. Then again, KC was good at that.
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