The Future of Pitt Basketball & Other Dribbles ...

[Sean Miller Fan]

Good post DT though I disagree with a few points.

Even if we can agree that this is a bad roster and I think it is and even if we can blame Jamie for miserable recruiting, you simply cant go 1-18. That's why I disagree when you say the rest of this season doesn't matter. I think it matters a great deal because I do think that id we go 1-18, Stallings could and should be fired.......even if we agree its not totally his fault. His firing would be based on 3 factors:

33% correction of an error. Stallings simply is not the guy you want building an ACC program from scratch. What experience suggests he is up for that task?

33% Finishing 8 wins fewer than Jamie with the same roster minus James Robinson

33% Bad signs in recruiting. His first class is below average and the fact he could not pull in a grad transfer when he arrived at Pitt before grad transfer season started or he couldn't find some late signee somewhere is a bad sign.

I think the rest of this season matters. 1-18 and I think he's gone. 2 wins and its more debatable. 3 wins and he's probably given at least one more.

Pitt is a total rebuild. So, in knowing this, you ask yourself, who is the best coach right now to build a Pitt program from scratch. Would Stallings be more able to do that than Kevin Keatts, Will Wade, Jeff Capel, etc? Is he the best man for the job? If the answer is no, you pay the buyout and move on.

 

[DT_PITT]

I am in agreement with you.

The one sentence I would have quibbled with in DT's OP was the business about forcing his system on the team. I don't think Stallings did that. I have posted previously, I don't think we are seeing Stallings preferred style of play. We are seeing what he thinks(thought at this point) would work best for this particular team.

That's certainly possible.

 

[DT_PITT]

Good post DT though I disagree with a few points.

Even if we can agree that this is a bad roster and I think it is and even if we can blame Jamie for miserable recruiting, you simply cant go 1-18. That's why I disagree when you say the rest of this season doesn't matter. I think it matters a great deal because I do think that id we go 1-18, Stallings could and should be fired.......even if we agree its not totally his fault. His firing would be based on 3 factors:

33% correction of an error. Stallings simply is not the guy you want building an ACC program from scratch. What experience suggests he is up for that task?

33% Finishing 8 wins fewer than Jamie with the same roster minus James Robinson

33% Bad signs in recruiting. His first class is below average and the fact he could not pull in a grad transfer when he arrived at Pitt before grad transfer season started or he couldn't find some late signee somewhere is a bad sign.

I think the rest of this season matters. 1-18 and I think he's gone. 2 wins and its more debatable. 3 wins and he's probably given at least one more year.

My thought is the only way Stallings would be gone is if for some reason he doesn't want to be here anymore.

 

[DT_PITT]

I appreciate you work greatly.

However, I would differ to an extent about something and this not a broad defense of Stallings.

But, I don't think he had tried to force his system on these guys. IMO, he used what he knows or believes in relative to the game to fit that to them. I believe this strongly, and that Artis is the PG highlights that.

I think he looked at what he had, saw that he did not have a center or PG who could play this year and decided to take the lineup, plug in his best player and try set them up for success by letting them do what they want to do - shoot. And used the player who has the most ancillary sills to be the point - Artis. And try to get them to rebound collectively with their height.

Did it fail - yeah. But, IMO, he TRIED to adapt to what he had given his knowledge of the game and what he knows.

I would add to this point that he has tried pretty much every defense used in this history of the game, switching man, all kinds of zones, some 3/4 court presses off of those ...

He just simply is not not as good of a coach as JD and as it has played out has suffered not having recruited them, they have no loyalty or connection to him, so he has even less influence over them than JD had.

Certainly makes sense. Without knowing what's in his head, of the past history of his tactics, you've presented a likely possibility.

 

[oldpantherfan]

Its funny how no one blames stallings.
A coach with top 4 of5 and 6 of 7 starters from a NCAA tournament team should not be in last place.
Stop blaming the players and saying lack of talent. Its piss poor coaching -PERIOD !!!!
At the very least he had three open scholarships (maybe more) to recruit players to his system. All three freshman opened threiur recruiting after Dixon left stallings did not have to bring them to Pitt. But yet he did so if they don't fit his system that is on him not Dixon. You need to have players to fit your system regardless of star ratings.
And also anybody he didn't fit his system can be released from his scholarship, happens everyday. Again on Stallings.
And you just do lose a team, that a again is on the current coach. Regardless of system Dixon never had that problem. Motivatioin is on the coach not the players. Every team has some sort of motivation issues, but if you lose the team because of it it is your job(the coach) not the players and that has nothing to do with the players or past coach.
And did it ever occur to the AD to talk to or listen to the players before making the buddy hire ?
Stop making excuses Stallings turned a good team into a bad one and the only person you blame on this besides Stallings is Barnes.
Dixon had the same problem but has already exceeded boith his predecessor at TCU and his replacement at PITT. So like dixon or not he is not to blam for the teams problems.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

Its funny how no one blames stallings.
A coach with top 4 of5 and 6 of 7 starters from a NCAA tournament team should not be in last place.
Stop blaming the players and saying lack of talent. Its piss poor coaching -PERIOD !!!!
At the very least he had three open scholarships (maybe more) to recruit players to his system. All three freshman opened threiur recruiting after Dixon left stallings did not have to bring them to Pitt. But yet he did so if they don't fit his system that is on him not Dixon. You need to have players to fit your system regardless of star ratings.
And also anybody he didn't fit his system can be released from his scholarship, happens everyday. Again on Stallings.
And you just do lose a team, that a again is on the current coach. Regardless of system Dixon never had that problem. Motivatioin is on the coach not the players. Every team has some sort of motivation issues, but if you lose the team because of it it is your job(the coach) not the players and that has nothing to do with the players or past coach.
And did it ever occur to the AD to talk to or listen to the players before making the buddy hire ?
Stop making excuses Stallings turned a good team into a bad one and the only person you blame on this besides Stallings is Barnes.
Dixon had the same problem but has already exceeded boith his predecessor at TCU and his replacement at PITT. So like dixon or not he is not to blam for the teams problems.

You are reading pantherlair and you aren't seeing anyone blaming Stallings?

Wow.

Time to schedule a trip to the optometrist.

 

[KiwiJeff]

If a basketball program could be measured on an evolutionary scale, we moved back to here:

 

[KiwiJeff]

Dixon might have us at a better record this year if he was coaching or he might have checked out also from frustration. But, he recruited the seniors and those are the players who should provide leadership and toughness. They didn't do this last year and they haven't this year

When you watch time after time after time opposing guards blowing down the lane untouched you realize it's all about lack of desire and effort to play any type of defense. It's not surprising that Stallings couldn't get more out of them. They were not sad by Dixon leaving but shortly after The season started they reverted back to their true selves.

You are wired at birth as they say. You really never change when it comes to most character traits.

I have seen lazy people turn their lives around. Usually it was after spending ti e in the service. Send our seniors to the marines, then send them back. We would be a totally different team.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

I find it interesting almost funny that some people ( not you this was a good post to use for an example) who post on this site alot, don't understand the first thing about business, how search firms work, and think PITT will fire Stalling or he'll just get disgusted and cash in his chips!
Right now Stalling an average to below average coach is holding all the cards and is calling the PITT administration.Show me your cards!
I guess he Stallings thinks they're not all that smart since to his amazment PITT gave him a "blueblood" lenght contract and he was barely hanging on to his previous job.
What other U would have made that mistake? I can't think of any.
Who would quit a $1.5 mill per yr = $ 9.0 mill over 6 yrs job after just barely escaping getting fired. Plus he has now learned how bad things are in PITT basketball program worse than he initially thought!
No matter how bad things get he'll show up on the bench, stay out of trouble, go through the coaching motions, etc. until PITT shows their cards.
I think Stallings has Aces and PITT has two's.

This truly mediocre basketball coach outsmarted a great U PITT. Its hard to believe!

Originally, when the idiot media attacked Barnes at the introductory press conference for Stallings, I thought it was just more anti-Pitt crap from them. I still believe this to a certain extent, but the more I think about it, Barnes deserved the treatment and more. This hire wreaks of cronyism. How do you give a blue-blood contract to a coach soon to be fired and at that age whose options for other P5 employment were certainly limited?

All the talk of Gallagher and the new Pitt admin "getting it" seems to be just that....talk. The Barnes hire is looking bad (although not of Bozik or Jaynes proportions as Barnes was doing some good things to try and improve fundraising and the fan experience) and the Stallings hire is looking very much to be in the realms of Majors 2 or Danny Nee.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Its funny how no one blames stallings.
A coach with top 4 of5 and 6 of 7 starters from a NCAA tournament team should not be in last place.
Stop blaming the players and saying lack of talent. Its piss poor coaching -PERIOD !!!!
At the very least he had three open scholarships (maybe more) to recruit players to his system. All three freshman opened threiur recruiting after Dixon left stallings did not have to bring them to Pitt. But yet he did so if they don't fit his system that is on him not Dixon. You need to have players to fit your system regardless of star ratings.
And also anybody he didn't fit his system can be released from his scholarship, happens everyday. Again on Stallings.
And you just do lose a team, that a again is on the current coach. Regardless of system Dixon never had that problem. Motivatioin is on the coach not the players. Every team has some sort of motivation issues, but if you lose the team because of it it is your job(the coach) not the players and that has nothing to do with the players or past coach.
And did it ever occur to the AD to talk to or listen to the players before making the buddy hire ?
Stop making excuses Stallings turned a good team into a bad one and the only person you blame on this besides Stallings is Barnes.
Dixon had the same problem but has already exceeded boith his predecessor at TCU and his replacement at PITT. So like dixon or not he is not to blam for the teams problems.

PITT's problems this year:
1. lack of quality recruiting over the past three years ( Dixon)
- no PG PITT has a forward playing PG, and is struggling to adequately fill the forward spot vacated by Artis
- no Center
- short bench PITT must play 6 maybe 7 guys
2. no senior leaders all of whom were recruited by Dixon. If fact they're senior losers who Dixon had trouble with too! He was able to manage them better than Stallings but were lazy players under Dixon too!
3. newly recruited players like Kithcart + others recruited by Dixon were recruiting misses, are underperforming and cant be counted on even at this late date in the season to contrubute.
4. Stallings is stuck with back-ups like Nix who can't play.
He's out of shape, has trouble getting back on D, shots a back-in semi hook shot that looks like an Iraqiu Scud missle trying to find a landing place Somewhere!
As far as Stalling goes. He's wasn't my choice to replace Dixon but he was 332-220 at Vandy prior to coming to PITT and 461-284 lifetime! He didn have a losing record and it was way better than .500.
He was employed by Vanderbilt for 17 yrs as head Basketball coach.
The only way to be employed that long and su-k is to work for the government, politician or be a member of the teachers union.
Vandy is a quality organization and he had an average to above average career there. Just look at W's & L's.
Now he shows up at PITT and forgets how to coach?
I doubt it!
He got stuck with Dixon's baggage! That's one reason it was easy to push Dixon out of PITT basketball.

 

[Protes]

Stallings will be here for the next 2 seasons at a minimum. Next year expectations will be so low, he'll get a pass. 18/19 we need to be competing for the NCAA's or he's gone thereafter.

Also, I keep hearing about "Stallings system". For the life of me I don't know what that is. Ask what Jamie's system is and people will immediately say defense, rebounding and getting good shots. Ask what Stallings system is...blank-out.

 

[New York Panther]

** This is a mightily discouraging result for sure, but it is not evidence that Stallings will never get it done. Nothing with this current group should be seen as evidence. They are just too volatile and too tough to coach.

DT: What do you mean when you say that this group is too volatile and too tough to coach? Did you think the same of them last year under Dixon?

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Stallings will be here for the next 2 seasons at a minimum. Next year expectations will be so low, he'll get a pass. 18/19 we need to be competing for the NCAA's or he's gone thereafter.

Also, I keep hearing about "Stalling system". For the life of me I don't know what that is. Ask what Jamie's system is and people will immediately say defense, rebounding and getting good shots. Ask what Stallings system is...blank-out.

How do you figure two more seasons?
Do you actually think PITT will buy out what's left on his 6 yr ridiculous deal???
That's close to $ 4.5 mill!
They cant fire him and he "ain't" leaving!
I say we stuck with him until year 5 unless he gets another gig or he actually dumber than he looks and takes a bad buy-out deal.

 

[NTOP]

Well reasoned DT. I suspect that Stallings will get at least another year, maybe two. That said, I'll draw a comparison between our program and a typical stock. Sports programs, like stocks, ride momentum. Our program momentum has been a gradual, but clear decline for the past 3 years. This year, the stock (Program) crashed. One thing I've learned in the market is that you're almost always better off cutting your losers quickly. I'd be inclined to cut my losses.

The analogy does clearly have a big flaw....you can sell a stock instantly and stop the bleeding. With 5 years left on a guaranteed contract, you actually have to pay a ton of money to stop the program bleeding. Furthermore, you're never sure if bringing in a new coach will ultimately solve the problem.

I'm just happy I'm not having to make this decision.

Cruzer

Cruzer....I'm hoping the contract isn't guaranteed for all 6 years, in which case KS should get 2 years, no more. If his next recruiting class, which we'll know within 2017, is inadequate, and we have a second awful year, we might only need to eat a year or two. But the new A.D. should make his second task to scour the country for a solid replacement. His first task is to find out where the men's room is....if Pitt still has them.
I'm pretty confident the Duzz will be here a while, and FB seems on the rise. Hoops used to make $$.....I doubt it will next fiscal year. With several HOF coaches hitting their retirement dates, the opportunity will be tougher if we're looking for a coach with K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim & Larranaga walking away.

 

[Canadian_Panther]

This is depressing.. I see the truth in the poker hands that Pitt and Stallings hold - but it is quite deflating to accept.

I'm hoping that Stallings treats the rest of the season like most coaches treat the CBI Tournament: get your returning players some PT and experience. The seniors that are buying in and teaching the underclassmen get to join the mix.

Teams that recruit mostly 3 stars and some 4 star guys - need to focus on defense. I wish Pitt went with a unique/gimmick D (Press Virginia, Havoc, Pack-line, Match up Zone, etc.) but that's just my personal preference.

 

[DT_PITT]

DT: What do you mean when you say that this group is too volatile and too tough to coach? Did you think the same of them last year under Dixon?

They have been very tough to coach for the last three years. They just can't seem to buy in as a collective unit, especially on the defensive end.

They have been more volatile this year, playing very well one game and very poorly the next. The scored on Virginia like no other team in four years, then had a record setting loss at the Pete.

 

[DT_PITT]

You are reading pantherlair and you aren't seeing anyone blaming Stallings?

Wow.

Time to schedule a trip to the optometrist.

There are a good handful of folks who believe the problems this year are all on the former coach and the team he left to Stallings.

We could be headed for 3-15 in the ACC or worse. There's culpability on both sides for sure.

 

[eastcoasthoops]

There are a good handful of folks who believe the problems this year are all on the former coach and the team he left to Stallings.

We could be headed for 3-15 in the ACC or worse. There's culpability on both sides for sure.

Sure, but that's not what oldpantherfan said. He said "its funny how no one blames Stallings". To say that no one is blaming Stallings is...just wrong.

I think the problems the team is having with adversity is manifest in so many of the things we have identified and debated on these forums. Recruiting, coaching, effort, confidence, etc, etc, etc.

A parallel is that we fans are also having problems facing adversity. And our problems are manifest in the way we are reading this message board and burrowing down into these seemingly one issue silos and missing the much bigger picture.

 

[DT_PITT]

Sure, but that's not what oldpantherfan said. He said "its funny how no one blames Stallings". To say that no one is blaming Stallings is...just wrong.

I think the problems the team is having with adversity is manifest in so many of the things we have identified and debated on these forums. Recruiting, coaching, effort, confidence, etc, etc, etc.

A parallel is that we fans are also having problems facing adversity. And our problems are manifest in the way we are reading this message board and burrowing down into these seemingly one issue silos and missing the much bigger picture.

Completely agree.

 

[thebadby2]

You are reading pantherlair and you aren't seeing anyone blaming Stallings?

Wow.

Time to schedule a trip to the optometrist.

I love these all or nothing guys. "It's piss poor coaching. Period!!!!!" Or:

"It's Jamie's recruiting failures. Period!!!!"

Lots of simple thinkers out there.

 

[NCanton Panther]

You seem to get really defensive anytime someone questions stallings. Is there a reason for this?

If you're trying to allude to me being some friend of or big supporter of Stallings, no that's not the case. I will freely admit though to not being an advocate of the growing legend of Jamie Dixon so maybe that makes me look like pro-Stallings. Seems like no one remembers Dixon's W/L record against these same ACC teams last year, and how many of them he similarly wasn't competitive in. No one remembers his OOC schedules and his tendency to lose to anyone on it with a pulse (Long Beach State, Hawaii, Indiana, Purdue ring a bell). So based on that track record, I don't see him beating both Maryland and Marquette like Stallings did.

I appreciate the complaints and criticisms of coach and/or player when there is a good basis for them. But IMHO many are not true or objective.

 

[bobfree]

There are a good handful of folks who believe the problems this year are all on the former coach and the team he left to Stallings.

We could be headed for 3-15 in the ACC or worse. There's culpability on both sides for sure.

I don't think that is true. I think most people would put blame on both stallings and.....

 

[DT_PITT]

I don't think that is true. I think most people would put blame and both stallings and.....

A good handful wasn't implying that it was a majority.

Perhaps it's just that the ones who just put it on one side or the other are the loudest.

 

[Scruffy the Panther]

I don't think that is true. I think most people would put blame on both stallings and.....

There's literally a thread front page with the title "Sorry, this is ALL recruiting" with 7 people liking the title post.

 

[thebadby2]

Stallings will be here for the next 2 seasons at a minimum. Next year expectations will be so low, he'll get a pass. 18/19 we need to be competing for the NCAA's or he's gone thereafter.

Also, I keep hearing about "Stallings system". For the life of me I don't know what that is. Ask what Jamie's system is and people will immediately say defense, rebounding and getting good shots. Ask what Stallings system is...blank-out.

Defense, rebounding and getting good shots wasn't Dixon's "system". Those were the principles underlying the offenses and defenses he favored.

 

[thebadby2]

Originally, when the idiot media attacked Barnes at the introductory press conference for Stallings, I thought it was just more anti-Pitt crap from them. I still believe this to a certain extent, but the more I think about it, Barnes deserved the treatment and more. This hire wreaks of cronyism. How do you give a blue-blood contract to a coach soon to be fired and at that age whose options for other P5 employment were certainly limited?

All the talk of Gallagher and the new Pitt admin "getting it" seems to be just that....talk. The Barnes hire is looking bad (although not of Bozik or Jaynes proportions as Barnes was doing some good things to try and improve fundraising and the fan experience) and the Stallings hire is looking very much to be in the realms of Majors 2 or Danny Nee.

It's not a "blue blood" contract. 1.5 mill a year is chump change for a Power 5 head coach. The length of the contract is inexplicable unless there is some kind of built-in out for Pitt that doesn't involve a full price buyout.

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

It's not a "blue blood" contract. 1.5 mill a year is chump change for a Power 5 head coach. The length of the contract is inexplicable unless there is some kind of built-in out for Pitt that doesn't involve a full price buyout.

Maybe it was Stallings/agent who demanded the 6 year contract knowing full well what he was walking into - and you have Barnes w/ one foot out the door - who was he to object?

 

[Franb]

They have been very tough to coach for the last three years. They just can't seem to buy in as a collective unit, especially on the defensive end.

They have been more volatile this year, playing very well one game and very poorly the next. The scored on Virginia like no other team in four years, then had a record setting loss at the Pete.

Pitt shot 54% - and 62% on 3's - against VA, maybe the best defense in the NCAA.
Pitt shot 33% on 2's and 3's against Clemson.
That is volatile to the max.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

** Good Evening to all of my PantherLair friends!

** If you are reading this at this point in the season, we likely share a couple of opinions about Pitt Hoops, without exception.

** The first is that we are miserable about Pitt Hoops at the moment.

** The second is that what happens the rest of this season, unless it’s something like a completely miraculous 8-2 ACC run, doesn’t really matter.

** But I’d like to ask everyone to put away any of your pro or con Dixon or Stallings biases, and grab hold of what I’ll put forth at the moment, which is truly what I believe about what has happened thus far this season.

** There are two simple realities that I believe in. One: There are significant problems with the makeup of our roster, and overall ability and depth, most of which can be attributed to our former coach. Two: there is enough talent on this team that we should be playing better than we are.

** While this is a black or white assertion, the extent of which both are true is true is certainly debatable. Engaging that debate back and forth is all conjecture, and really serves no purpose.

** Here’s what does matter. Do you believe that Kevin Stallings is the type of Coach who can get the most of the rosters he does create in years to come? Or in other words, how much does substandard achievement with this current group really matter?

** My answer? It doesn’t matter. That is … it doesn’t matter especially if he can correct his course beginning next year.

** I can’t read Coach Stallings’s mind, but it appears to me that he threw his system onto a group of seniors, for better or worse.

** In my mind, it’s hard to fault a new coach for going this direction with a group seniors who do have some talent, although being quite volatile, and few players behind them to groom.

** But it didn’t work, and in fact it appears as if it has failed miserably. The way I see it, this team will finish the ACC season no better than 3-15.

** Nonetheless, here’s only point that matters. Does this mean what our Coach is trying to do won’t work for any group – especially a group of his own -- or does it mean that it just didn’t work with this group.

** None of us know the answer to this, of course.

** But this much I do know. It’s completely unwise to suggest that Coach Stallings shouldn’t be around for year two so that we can get a better answer to this question.

** I might feel a little bit differently about this point if Stallings was driving a group slated for a top four AAC finish instead into a bottom four ACC finish. Actually, he’s driven an NCAA bubble team, at best, to a bottom four ACC finish, or maybe even a last place finish.

** This is a mightily discouraging result for sure, but it is not evidence that Stallings will never get it done. Nothing with this current group should be seen as evidence. They are just too volatile and too tough to coach.

** I’d be lying if I said I had real confidence that Stallings will get it done. It’s impossible for any Pitt fan to ignore his track record before he got to Pitt.

** All of this notwithstanding, whether he’s the guy long term to get his team to buy into what he wants or not, this program has a bigger problem in that any coach would have a huge mountain to climb regardless.

** At the moment, everything about this program is in a negative direction. And if you are of the mindset that cutting our losses with Stallings now is the better way to go, it’s important to realize that this increases that negative momentum all that much more.

** All of this may seem that I’m suggesting that Panther fans need to grin and bear it. But maybe the better way to characterize it is that Panther Fans need to wait and bear it.

** How long? Well, in my mind, not as long as one might think.

** We shouldn’t even need to wait until the beginning of next season. We might even know by September.

** It’s safe to assume that we have four more spots to recruit for next season. And we have immediate playing time to offer in the ACC next season. There is nothing better to entice recruits than immediate playing time.

** Along the same lines, at least two the next four players we recruit need to be players ready to give immediate quality playing time. Even with JUCO's or 5th year guys, that’s a tall order. But it’s the job Kevin Stallings signed up to do.

** I’m grateful to anyone who was good enough to read this far. So I’ll end with a summary.

** Like it or not, the future of Pitt Basketball for the next year or so is in the hands of Kevin Stallings. Unless for some reason he decides he doesn’t want to be here, he will be here, and he should be here.

** As a die-hard Pitt Hoops fan who cares deeply about this program, I know I will wait and bear it. I know that’s what needs to happen.

** I will wait and see what work Stallings can do with his roster before next season, or even with the quality of freshman recruits signed for 2018. If there is little positive movement, I also know my patience will wane.

** And if we are talking about another 3 win ACC season this time next year without any significant help on the horizon, that’s a whole new conversation too.

** But that conversation needs to happen later. Like it or not, that’s the future of Pitt Basketball.

Very good post, DT.

I feel very much the same as you. I didn't really want Jamie gone and thought he could turn it around. However, once I came to grips with him leaving, I was excited about the possibility of a new guy to give us a fresh look. I really wanted Enright.

Once the name Stallings came out, I was not very happy. This was the opposite of what he AD said he'd bring in and what I thought we'd bring in.

However, once that decision was made, I decided that I would accept his hire and support him. I had to.

I really thought this team would respond to him and make the tourney. They did up until the last 6 games. Not quite sure what happened. Yes, the schedule got tougher, but we could have won games against ND, NC St and Clemson and been 4-4 right now.

This team has always been flawed, even for as much as Jamie tried. They never gave the effort on D and always folded when the going got tough. Jamie's great coaching got as much as he could out of this team and it was probably time for him to move on. Jamie couldn't get it done on the recruiting trail though. Jamie is a better coach than Kevin, but the thought was that maybe Kevin could out-recruit him to make up the difference.

That is the hope now. A total makeover of the roster. The good thing is that it is a great opportunity for a lot of great, young players and making over a basketball roster is not like making over a football roster. I just want guys in here that I am proud to watch and root for. Ones that will work hard all the time and battled till the final whistle of every game. I want teams like Howland had to start his career, even if they ONLY make the tournament, but can't make it past the sweet 16.

 

[steel_curtain]

PITT's problems this year:
1. lack of quality recruiting over the past three years ( Dixon)
- no PG PITT has a forward playing PG, and is struggling to adequately fill the forward spot vacated by Artis
- no Center
- short bench PITT must play 6 maybe 7 guys
2. no senior leaders all of whom were recruited by Dixon. If fact they're senior losers who Dixon had trouble with too! He was able to manage them better than Stallings but were lazy players under Dixon too!
3. newly recruited players like Kithcart + others recruited by Dixon were recruiting misses, are underperforming and cant be counted on even at this late date in the season to contrubute.
4. Stallings is stuck with back-ups like Nix who can't play.
He's out of shape, has trouble getting back on D, shots a back-in semi hook shot that looks like an Iraqiu Scud missle trying to find a landing place Somewhere!
As far as Stalling goes. He's wasn't my choice to replace Dixon but he was 332-220 at Vandy prior to coming to PITT and 461-284 lifetime! He didn have a losing record and it was way better than .500.
He was employed by Vanderbilt for 17 yrs as head Basketball coach.
The only way to be employed that long and su-k is to work for the government, politician or be a member of the teachers union.
Vandy is a quality organization and he had an average to above average career there. Just look at W's & L's.
Now he shows up at PITT and forgets how to coach?
I doubt it!
He got stuck with Dixon's baggage! That's one reason it was easy to push Dixon out of PITT basketball.

-Something isnt right with this team. I mean we blew out Maryland, who is in 1st place in the Big ten. Beat Virginia. Beat Marquette who has 2 Top 8 wins. We had a top 20 rpi at one point, 12-3 at one point, and blew the game against Notre Dame, another ranked team we had and should have won the game. Then go 1-7 in the next 8 games and had 2 of the worst losses I have ever seen. I dont think this team is physically or mentally tough at all. Perhaps the players are hanging out at the casino again and mailed in the season. The team looks like it quit.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

-Something isnt right with this team. I mean we blew out Maryland, who is in 1st place in the Big ten. Beat Virginia. Beat Marquette who has 2 Top 8 wins. We had a top 20 rpi at one point, 12-3 at one point, and blew the game against Notre Dame, another ranked team we had and should have won the game. Then go 1-7 in the next 8 games and had 2 of the worst losses I have ever seen. I dont think this team is physically or mentally tough at all. Perhaps the players are hanging out at the casino again and mailed in the season. The team looks like it quit.

Well one thing they could use is the Justice Kithcart that you projected as opposed to the one we actually have. Or even 1/2 of the one you spoke about for that matter.

 

[DT_PITT]

Very good post, DT.

I feel very much the same as you. I didn't really want Jamie gone and thought he could turn it around. However, once I came to grips with him leaving, I was excited about the possibility of a new guy to give us a fresh look. I really wanted Enright.

Once the name Stallings came out, I was not very happy. This was the opposite of what he AD said he'd bring in and what I thought we'd bring in.

However, once that decision was made, I decided that I would accept his hire and support him. I had to.

I really thought this team would respond to him and make the tourney. They did up until the last 6 games. Not quite sure what happened. Yes, the schedule got tougher, but we could have won games against ND, NC St and Clemson and been 4-4 right now.

This team has always been flawed, even for as much as Jamie tried. They never gave the effort on D and always folded when the going got tough. Jamie's great coaching got as much as he could out of this team and it was probably time for him to move on. Jamie couldn't get it done on the recruiting trail though. Jamie is a better coach than Kevin, but the thought was that maybe Kevin could out-recruit him to make up the difference.

That is the hope now. A total makeover of the roster. The good thing is that it is a great opportunity for a lot of great, young players and making over a basketball roster is not like making over a football roster. I just want guys in here that I am proud to watch and root for. Ones that will work hard all the time and battled till the final whistle of every game. I want teams like Howland had to start his career, even if they ONLY make the tournament, but can't make it past the sweet 16.

Word for word, John, exactly how I feel about the entire situation.

 

[Franb]

Very good post, DT.

I feel very much the same as you. I didn't really want Jamie gone and thought he could turn it around. However, once I came to grips with him leaving, I was excited about the possibility of a new guy to give us a fresh look. I really wanted Enright.

Once the name Stallings came out, I was not very happy. This was the opposite of what he AD said he'd bring in and what I thought we'd bring in.

However, once that decision was made, I decided that I would accept his hire and support him. I had to.

I really thought this team would respond to him and make the tourney. They did up until the last 6 games. Not quite sure what happened. Yes, the schedule got tougher, but we could have won games against ND, NC St and Clemson and been 4-4 right now.

This team has always been flawed, even for as much as Jamie tried. They never gave the effort on D and always folded when the going got tough. Jamie's great coaching got as much as he could out of this team and it was probably time for him to move on. Jamie couldn't get it done on the recruiting trail though. Jamie is a better coach than Kevin, but the thought was that maybe Kevin could out-recruit him to make up the difference.

That is the hope now. A total makeover of the roster. The good thing is that it is a great opportunity for a lot of great, young players and making over a basketball roster is not like making over a football roster. I just want guys in here that I am proud to watch and root for. Ones that will work hard all the time and battled till the final whistle of every game. I want teams like Howland had to start his career, even if they ONLY make the tournament, but can't make it past the sweet 16.

plus 1

 

[Delpanther]

Its funny how no one blames stallings.
A coach with top 4 of5 and 6 of 7 starters from a NCAA tournament team should not be in last place.
Stop blaming the players and saying lack of talent. Its piss poor coaching -PERIOD !!!!
At the very least he had three open scholarships (maybe more) to recruit players to his system. All three freshman opened threiur recruiting after Dixon left stallings did not have to bring them to Pitt. But yet he did so if they don't fit his system that is on him not Dixon. You need to have players to fit your system regardless of star ratings.
And also anybody he didn't fit his system can be released from his scholarship, happens everyday. Again on Stallings.
And you just do lose a team, that a again is on the current coach. Regardless of system Dixon never had that problem. Motivatioin is on the coach not the players. Every team has some sort of motivation issues, but if you lose the team because of it it is your job(the coach) not the players and that has nothing to do with the players or past coach.
And did it ever occur to the AD to talk to or listen to the players before making the buddy hire ?
Stop making excuses Stallings turned a good team into a bad one and the only person you blame on this besides Stallings is Barnes.
Dixon had the same problem but has already exceeded boith his predecessor at TCU and his replacement at PITT. So like dixon or not he is not to blam for the teams problems.

Guess why no one agrees with your position on the quality of the talent? Because you're dead wrong.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

DT:

A lot of people are figuring we find a way to win 2 or 3 more games. However, we are underdogs in all remaining games. It is very possible we go 1-18.

My question is if we do go 1-18, what would YOU do with Stallings then?

 

[DT_PITT]

DT:

A lot of people are figuring we find a way to win 2 or 3 more games. However, we are underdogs in all remaining games. It is very possible we go 1-18.

My question is if we do go 1-18, what would YOU do with Stallings then?

Personally, of course he's here for next year. (Unless some bizarre thing like the whole team quitting or something).

I hate to use the phrase "giving him a pass" in reference to Stallings, because that's really not how I would feel.

Of course if we go 1-17 in the ACC, I would consider it a failure of coaching for the season. Looking at how our defense has slipped considerably from last year, I don't believe he's done a very good job thus far.

Nonetheless, this isn't his roster. I need to see what he can do to rebuild his roster and how well he can coach them.

Like I said in the post to start the thread, I believe Stallings has the opportunity to recruit up to four more players. And he can offer significant playing time to at least two of them. I am hopeful that he can find two players worthy of significant playing time.

All of this notwithstanding, it's just not a good idea, in my opinion, to remove coaches after one year.

Next year is going to stink regardless. But if Stallings can recruit a couple more players for 2017, and an impact player or two for 2018, than we can get back on track that year.

If we remove Stallings after this year, we are done until 2019 or 2020 at best.

 

[PittPoker]

Personally, of course he's here for next year. (Unless some bizarre thing like the whole team quitting or something).

I hate to use the phrase "giving him a pass" in reference to Stallings, because that's really not how I would feel.

Of course if we go 1-17 in the ACC, I would consider it a failure of coaching for the season. Looking at how our defense has slipped considerably from last year, I don't believe he's done a very good job thus far.

Nonetheless, this isn't his roster. I need to see what he can do to rebuild his roster and how well he can coach them.

Like I said in the post to start the thread, I believe Stallings has the opportunity to recruit up to four more players. And he can offer significant playing time to at least two of them. I am hopeful that he can find two players worthy of significant playing time.

All of this notwithstanding, it's just not a good idea, in my opinion, to remove coaches after one year.

Next year is going to stink regardless. But if Stallings can recruit a couple more players for 2017, and an impact player or two for 2018, than we can get back on track that year.

If we remove Stallings after this year, we are done until 2019 or 2020 at best.

Hey DT, I disagree again

 

[Fredact]

As always DT, a well written and thoughtful post.

I come at it a bit differently than you though. Though a native Western Pennsylvanian, I only became a Pitt hoops fan after I moved back to the area in the 1990's. I've had season tickets since the Pete opened, so I've been spoiled by the success. But I have little allegiance to Pitt as a University, I don't particularly support the football team (I root for any of the local teams--Penn St, WVU or Pitt--about equally) and I view my investment in the Panther Club solely as an investment in tickets to a sporting event.

But I have been very invested in Pitt hoops. Going to the ACC tournament, some BE tournaments, away games in Miami, Louisville, Georgetown and even Auburn. I go to all the games, even the pre-season ones, and lots of the post-season ones, from Dearborn to Boston, and yes the CBI. I track the recruits and then follow the careers of the players. I cheer heartily at games (and much to the chagrin of my wife), yell lustily at the refs.

But underneath it all, I am a paying customer, buying a product, and the product they are selling now stinks, and they need to fix it immediately. Its as if I bought a car that needs a recall--I don't want them to say, just drive it a few years, we'll fix that rattling then. I don't want to hear that the University of Pittsburgh is too poor to fix this product--that's not my problem, but theirs.

Now I understand that many alumni have a loyalty to their schools, that I personally do not understand--my view is that purchasing an education is no different than buying any other product. I'm an alumnus of St Johns, but once my final tuition bill was paid, I had no more loyalty to them than I do to that 1968 Mustang that I once owned. But I understand many people feel differently, and don't view things the same way, they can't conceive of trading sports loyalties like trading in cars.

But for me, the question is what product do I continue to buy going forward. I wish Duquesne had a better program, RMU could be fun, and I've said it before on this board, that if I lived south of Pittsburgh, I could easily see myself becoming a WVU season ticket holder, the drive from there isn't that far.

But because I am still emotionally invested in this product (I did also like that Mustang quite a bit), I want them to fix it. But if Stallings is still here next year, I'm 50/50 as to whether I will still be buying their product (and it's only that high because of Panther Club point considerations). If he is here and they are again an ACC bottom feeder though, my chances of buying the product in 2018-19 are about 0%.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

As always DT, a well written and thoughtful post.

I come at it a bit differently than you though. Though a native Western Pennsylvanian, I only became a Pitt hoops fan after I moved back to the area in the 1990's. I've had season tickets since the Pete opened, so I've been spoiled by the success. But I have little allegiance to Pitt as a University, I don't particularly support the football team (I root for any of the local teams--Penn St, WVU or Pitt--about equally) and I view my investment in the Panther Club solely as an investment in tickets to a sporting event.

But I have been very invested in Pitt hoops. Going to the ACC tournament, some BE tournaments, away games in Miami, Louisville, Georgetown and even Auburn. I go to all the games, even the pre-season ones, and lots of the post-season ones, from Dearborn to Boston, and yes the CBI. I track the recruits and then follow the careers of the players. I cheer heartily at games (and much to the chagrin of my wife), yell lustily at the refs.

But underneath it all, I am a paying customer, buying a product, and the product they are selling now stinks, and they need to fix it immediately. Its as if I bought a car that needs a recall--I don't want them to say, just drive it a few years, we'll fix that rattling then. I don't want to hear that the University of Pittsburgh is too poor to fix this product--that's not my problem, but theirs.

Now I understand that many alumni have a loyalty to their schools, that I personally do not understand--my view is that purchasing an education is no different than buying any other product. I'm an alumnus of St Johns, but once my final tuition bill was paid, I had no more loyalty to them than I do to that 1968 Mustang that I once owned. But I understand many people feel differently, and don't view things the same way, they can't conceive of trading sports loyalties like trading in cars.

But for me, the question is what product do I continue to buy going forward. I wish Duquesne had a better program, RMU could be fun, and I've said it before on this board, that if I lived south of Pittsburgh, I could easily see myself becoming a WVU season ticket holder, the drive from there isn't that far.

But because I am still emotionally invested in this product (I did also like that Mustang quite a bit), I want them to fix it. But if Stallings is still here next year, I'm 50/50 as to whether I will still be buying their product (and it's only that high because of Panther Club point considerations). If he is here and they are again an ACC bottom feeder though, my chances of buying the product in 2018-19 are about 0%.

This explains everything. Get rid of your tickets. We don't need you. Root for WVU and PSU. Good bye and good riddance.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

This explains everything. Get rid of your tickets. We don't need you. Root for WVU and PSU. Good bye and good riddance.

Fans are paying good money to see a quality product . Thousands have already decided to not renew the last few years because the product has been slipping and after this season I wouldn't be surprised if they lose another 1000/1500 STH . Pitt will only listen to one thing the fans tell them and by not supporting them financially that's when they'll listen to you . If your unhappy with their recent decisions and their performance and have run out of patience with them don't buy season tickets . Don't donate to the athletic department until they make the same commitment to winning you have . I've said from the beginning of this coaching fiasco that money was at the root of this issue . They rid themselves of JDs long term contract and hired a less expensive coach that they thought wouldn't wreck the bb program . There was that danger in hiring the up and comer unfortunately hiring the experienced D1 coach has failed miserably to get the most out of this dysfunctional roster and has fans of the program fearing the future . Those thinking that they were going out and pay top dollar for a "splash guy" are delusional . This is Pitt !
I supported JD , but after he left I realized his moving on was the best for everybody . I was pissed when they hired KS ,but decided to support him because what other choice was there other than to root against Pitt . He's failed miserably this season and I'm afraid ( know ) next year will actually be worse . Is he the right guy to rebuild the Pitt bb program because they will be in total rebuild mode for several years ? Is it fair to judge him until he has his own roster in here and that means at least two more years ? I personally feel while it's not fair to judge him until yr three is complete Pitt cannot wait that long to correct their mistake . At best KS will make Pitt a bottom third to mid pack ACC team and if that's the kind of program Pitt wants to run they'll be playing in front of 5000 fans . It's their choice , don't blame fans who aren't interested in paying for losing bb blame the decision makers for this mess that Pitt bb is right now .