Jared Wilson-Frame

[DC_Area_Panther]

Coaches who have done better at 1 program than another: Dana Altman, Tom Crean, Al Skinner, Tom Davis, John Beilein, Tommy Amaker, Mike Montgomery, Bruce Weber, Tim Floyd. Just off the top of my head.

More importantly--as related to our specific situation, did these coaches have greater success after they moved on to another major program or was it the other way around? I believe in the majority of the cases it was less success after the move

Note: I intentionally am not including moves of up to major programs by up and coming young coaches from non-major programs in making this observation.

 

[mvk112]

ESPN, Scout, Hoop Seen, and Matt Steinbrink (insider on this board) disagree with you.

The composite rankings pull all rankings together, they are not subjective. There is no disagreeing.

 

[mvk112]

More importantly--as related to our specific situation, did these coaches have greater success after they moved on to another major program or was it the other way around? I believe in the majority of the cases it was less success after the move

Note: I intentionally am not including moves of up to major programs by up and coming young coaches from non-major programs in making this observation.

The only guy on that list that is relevant is John Beilein. Even at that, Beilein had a ton of success in a short time at WVU, and left the foundation of what would be a final four team there.

Altman, Montgomery, Skinner, Crean, Weber all went from mid major to major. A couple of them had jobs after moving up too. Weber had less success at Kansas State than at Illinois. Montgomery less at LSU than Stanford. Crean of course did better at Marquette than Indiana anyway.

Amaker had less success at Michigan than at Seton Hall, and dropped down to mid major to find success.

 

[Piranha]

The only guy on that list that is relevant is John Beilein. Even at that, Beilein had a ton of success in a short time at WVU, and left the foundation of what would be a final four team there.

Altman, Montgomery, Skinner, Crean, Weber all went from mid major to major. A couple of them had jobs after moving up too. Weber had less success at Kansas State than at Illinois. Montgomery less at LSU than Stanford. Crean of course did better at Marquette than Indiana anyway.

Amaker had less success at Michigan than at Seton Hall, and dropped down to mid major to find success.

The point is some coaches have more success at other places for one reason or another.

 

[Piranha]

The composite rankings pull all rankings together, they are not subjective. There is no disagreeing.

Rankings are opinions. Are u for real?

 

[mvk112]

You're the one trying to use rankings to day this class is better than the previous coach's first class. The rankings actually show otherwise.

I don't think you have a firm grasp on what you are trying to say other than to be a cheerleader for Kevin Stallings, and you will distort the facts to support your cheerleading.

 

[H2Pforever]

Coaches who have done better at 1 program than another: Dana Altman, Tom Crean, Al Skinner, Tom Davis, John Beilein, Tommy Amaker, Mike Montgomery, Bruce Weber, Tim Floyd. Just off the top of my head.

Almost none of these are comparable.

Altman was very good at creighton. Not sure why he is on You list?

Tom crean was excellent at Marquette? What are you talking about? He had actually been worse at IU?

Beilien was good at WVU, and has continued that at Michigan?

Davis failed at Stanford, but did a good job at BC previously.

Skinner went from Rhode Island to bc. I don't know how that is even comparable? Same as Altman.

Tommy amaker? Really? Ralph Willard was really good at holy cross? Maybe Pitt should have hired him back?

Montgomery has been extremely successful at every high major he had been at????

Bruce weber??? What? Huh? He has been WORSE at KSU than he was at Illinois?

Tim Floyd performed just as well at USC as he did at Iowa state, years apart.

I really have no clue what your point. Find me a coach that was at a power 5 school for 10 years plus, then significantly improved when he went elsewhere.

 

[H2Pforever]

The point is some coaches have more success at other places for one reason or another.

No crap. When a coach moves up from a mid major with significant disadvantages, they sometimes greatly improve. When a coach moves down from a high major to a mid or low major, same thing. However, high major coaches rarely flip between jobs and drastically improve at similar schools.

And why do you keep bringing up Altman? He was extremely successful at creighton? What did you expect? For him to go to the FF at creighton and have consistent sweet 16's?

I hope stallings improves here...I really do. But the reality is that it is unlikely, and that we greatly downgraded our coaching situation.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

The point is some coaches have more success at other places for one reason or another.

Which is a silly logic...
Most coaches do well at a smaller program and get scooped up by a bigger one. Their success is what is attractive.

They don't go from mediocre at a major school to good at another major.
Beilein is successful at every place because he's a good coach.

Crean was very good at Marquette and is very good at Indiana.

 

[Piranha]

Which is a silly logic...
Most coaches do well at a smaller program and get scooped up by a bigger one. Their success is what is attractive.

They don't go from mediocre at a major school to good at another major.
Beilein is successful at every place because he's a good coach.

Crean was very good at Marquette and is very good at Indiana.

Crean had a winning % of .664 at Marquette, and it is .554 at Indiana.

It is interesting that you call Beilein a success, but Stalling a failure when their winning % at Michigan and Vandy is almost identical.

Facts are your friends.

 

[mvk112]

Crean had a winning % of .664 at Marquette, and it is .554 at Indiana.

So you're saying he left one job and didn't have as much success at another job?

Good point, why put him on this list then?

 

[H2Pforever]

Crean had a winning % of .664 at Marquette, and it is .554 at Indiana.

It is interesting that you call Beilein a success, but Stalling a failure when their winning % at Michigan and Vandy is almost identical.

Facts are your friends.

Wait, I thought we were talking about coaches tyat did better at their new school?

 

[levance2]

No crap. When a coach moves up from a mid major with significant disadvantages, they sometimes greatly improve. When a coach moves down from a high major to a mid or low major, same thing. However, high major coaches rarely flip between jobs and drastically improve at similar schools.

Turgeon at UMD has probably been objectively better than at TA&M, at least once he got his legs under him. Results in 2017 probably make or break that argument.

Another qualifier to this is that most coaches move, even from P5 to P5, at their peak of success to date. Stallings was clearly not at the peak of his Vandy career. Howland was better than mediocre at Pitt, then left at his peak, and ended up continuing to ascend at UCLA. Same with Bill Self or any number of other guys. Tubby Smith is probably one of the few to often change jobs after being quasi-fired.

Frank Martin did a pretty damn good job at KSU before mysteriously jumping to South Carolina, where he's not really done much of anything since. Steve Alford has pretty clearly done worse at UCLA than New Mexico, which is staggering. Jury is still out on Buzz Williams at VT, but he seems poised to make them a better program than Marquette could achieve in the Big East.

 

[levance2]

It is interesting that you call Beilein a success, but Stalling a failure when their winning % at Michigan and Vandy is almost identical.

Looking at conference games: Beilein is 88-74 in fewer seasons in a harder league, even including his 5-13 debut there. Stallings was 138-142 in a perennially weak SEC. Stallings best record was 12-4 in 2010. Beilein had first-place finishes of 13-5 and 15-3.

Beilein has been inconsistent there for sure, but his good years have been way better.

 

[mvk112]

Looking at conference games: Beilein is 88-74 in fewer seasons in a harder league, even including his 5-13 debut there. Stallings was 138-142 in a perennially weak SEC. Stallings best record was 12-4 in 2010. Beilein had first-place finishes of 13-5 and 15-3.

Beilein has been inconsistent there for sure, but his good years have been way better.

Plus, you know, he did take them to a National Championship game too.

 

[NTOP]

LOL!!!!

Unbelievable! It's Stallings fault we were picked 12th!
It's absolutely amazing what people are willing to believe. It's even more amazing they will post it.

Perception counts with prognosticators.....which explains why most aren't that good at it. Let's hope Pitt does better than 12th. Decent help from the new guys should get us higher than that.

 

[NTOP]

Stallings went out of his way to keep every one of Dixon's players and recruits. Are they terrible or not? Stallings seems to like them.

What choice did he have??? What choices did the kids have, really? If he gets these guys to play decent defense, they should be competitive, at the least.

 

[NTOP]

The 3 guards Stallings landed are rated higher. Then you add in Brown. Plus the class is not done yet.

So far Stallings is off to a better start.

Uhhhhh.....they haven't played a game, yet. Screw the rankings, you should know better.

 

[Piranha]

Uhhhhh.....they haven't played a game, yet. Screw the rankings, you should know better.

I believe in giving a new coach and players a clean slate. Time will tell the story.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Plus, you know, he did take them to a National Championship game too.

Yeah...
What I was thinking