Jared Wilson-Frame
- Thread starter Piranha
- Start date
Fair enough...we really have no idea who we are really recruiting, or our priorities.
Or who the staff prioritizes or not.
And I agree, although much like Dixon landed impact players quickly... Stallings, whiffed a bunch.
Dixon's first full class as a HC in 2004 consisted of three 3 star recruits. Ramon, Benjamin, and DeGroat.
The 3 guards Stallings landed are rated higher. Then you add in Brown. Plus the class is not done yet.
So far Stallings is off to a better start.
Benjamin (#121) was rated a lot higher than Thompson (#177) and Carr (#174). Ramon slightly worse (#189).
DeGroat was a top 10 JUCO in 2004, Wilson-Frame is same in 2017.
http://www.hoopseen.com/news/genera...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Carr and Thompson - Top 125 guards
Wilson-Frame - #1 or 2 Juco in the country
Scout has Carr as a 4 star.
ESPN and Scout have Thompson as a 4 star.
What sites had Ramon or Benjamin rated as a 4 star?
The current bar is winning more than 1 game in the NCAA's over a 5-yr period.
Then why talking about Ramon, Benjamin, and degroat?
I assumed you'd reference them because they had success as players. they even won a big East tournament.
Moving your own goal post again.
You are predictable in your low standards
The composite pulls together all recruiting sites. Benjamin was a consensus top 125 recruit. Thompson and Carr are top 175 kids. Ramon slightly lower.
I get that you are the head cheerleader these days, but put away the pom poms for a little bit and try to be a bit objective. The guards in the class are rated similarly as a whole.
try to be a bit objective. - Good advice - Your should try following it (I am trying for my 250th like - don't disappoint me)
For you maybe--but it wont cut it if for me if that happens but we only make the NCAAs that 1 year and don't even make the tourney the other 4 years.
I am objective. 17 years of experience says a lot about anyone. As does 13. If you think the guy who went to 7 tournaments in 17 years, with no elite 8s, while having worse SOS and worse recruiting classes is better than the guy who went to 11 tournaments in 13 years, with an elite 8, while playing in what was routinely the best conference in basketball, then you aren't being objective.
The 247 Sports Composite has no bias, it is literally a composite of all recruiting sites. To argue that Carr and Thompson are ranked better than Benjamin when the composite says otherwise is not objective.
This ranking nonsense has been discussed at length previously.
Lets look forward to discussing which class had a better first season after the end of the 2017 classes initial season.
Like DT said - wins and losses - performance on the court
Let's hope this class wins an ACC tournament, goes to 4 NCAA tournaments, including a sweet 16.
When did the Artis/Young Class win an ACC Tournament, go to 4 NCAA's, and make the Sweet 16? These are the current players Stallings is working with.
What in the world are you talking about? You compared these kids to the Ramon/Benjamin/DeGroat class. That is what the Ramon, Benjamin, DeGroat class did.
LOL, except the guards aren't rated more highly if you actually look at the ratings.
See there you go Wilson -Frame is rated #2 was DeGroat #2 . No .You only want to use meaningless #'s when it fits your agenda . Do you really believe there's a difference in 121 vs 189 . Turns out Ramon was a better player for Pitt . How can a guy whose rated 78 places lower have a better career ? Because after the elite players there's not a great deal of difference !
We sure as sh#t did not win all of those games because of DeGroat, Ramon, and Benjamin. They were the supporting cast.
Just curious - What was Pitt record the year before? - How many of those players were still eligible that overlapped that period ? Ramon was a solid player - Benjamin was a sub and did not do much until his senior year - DeGroat was a huge disappoint
What was Pitts record last season? How many of the players on that team will still be eligible that overlap this period? (1-2-3 years)
If you are objective, you must admit recruiting rankings won't necessarily tell the story.
It's impossible to make ANY judgments about these kids until they play at Pitt. Right?
It is not fair to judge these recruits or Stallings until we see how they perform at Pitt. There are numerous coaches who have performed better at one school than another. Time will tell the story.
Well the let's hope Stallings can do something he hasn't shown he can do over the course of his career, recruit better than the previous coach here, and Pitt can win an ACC championship and go to 4 NCAA tournaments and a sweet 16 from 17/18 thru 20/21 with these guys as role players.
Putting down your pom poms for a second, do you think there is a chance that happens? Keep in mind, that Sweet 16 team was led by recruits either kept on by Dixon in his first class (Gray), brought in late August in his first class (Graves), or brought in entirely by him (Young, Kendall, Fields, Ramon, Benjamin, etc).
The team that won a Big East Championship was Ramon and Benjamin's senior year. The Sweet 16 team was their junior year. That was a very successful class, and the coach continued to recruit very well. If you want to rewrite Pitt history to try to make Stallings more palatable, fine, have fun.
What is your obsession with this topic? I hope Stallings does well because I am a Pitt basketball fan. If you must insist on comparing the two, then compare their records while they were both coaching in the ACC.
The whole Pom Pom's comment is bizarre. I am a fan who suppports and wants the team to do well. It is too bad Pitt does not have more Pom Pom fans as you call it. Big-time schools have lots of Pom Pom wavers. I will be in Miami, FL on Saturday for the football game. What will you be doing?
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You don't think 17 years at a high major is enough experience to know what you're getting?
And 13 years in two of the best basketball conferences, the same? Let's not act like the ACC is some magical beast compared to the Big East, which was every bit as good, or better than, the current conference is. But keep latching onto 3 years as if that's all Dixon ever did, and even in those three years, his success (over .500 conference record, tournament 2 of 3 years) was more than what Stallings accomplished in the weakest of the power conferences.
By the way, you're the one who brought up Ramon/Benjamin/DeGroat to begin with, and then proceeded to act like that wasn't a good class comparatively. I'm not obsessed with it, you seem obsessed with downplaying everything that was accomplished under the previous coach, most likely in order to set the bar low for a new coach who is thoroughly underwhelming.
You made the comparison... As silly as it was, to Dixon's first class.
Does this mean you recognize the flaw in your reasoning?
Coaches who have done better at 1 program than another: Dana Altman, Tom Crean, Al Skinner, Tom Davis, John Beilein, Tommy Amaker, Mike Montgomery, Bruce Weber, Tim Floyd. Just off the top of my head.
On paper, Stallings is off to a better start in recruiting. I recognize there are a lot of flaws with your reasoning since nobody will know for sure until the games are played.
ESPN, Scout, Hoop Seen, and Matt Steinbrink (insider on this board) disagree with you.
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