Lol. A Super Bowl? Were they drunk and high to think that team was anywhere close to a Super Bowl? It's been a perpetual rebuild for over a decade.
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Kenny Impressing Early In Philly!
- Thread starter Usuallyunusual-partdeux
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Lol. A Super Bowl? Were they drunk and high to think that team was anywhere close to a Super Bowl? It's been a perpetual rebuild for over a decade.
Who's logic is that, and why would anyone ever expect Colbert to think that?
They blew it signing Mitch and thinking they could patchwork an OL with a band of scrubs. They were forced to throw the #20 pick in there and basically pray he was a pro QB who could make Matt Canada and a horrendous OL look good. It didn't work. Nobody should be shocked.
A capable starting QB was perfectly acceptable. No one thought he was going to be the next Ben Roethlisberger.
I'll say one thing about #7 in that last year. I'm not sure all was failed because #7 was an absolute shadow of himself in that last season. I'm not sure what offense you can run when the QB can't push the ball down field beyond 30 yards with any velocity.
In reading this, it dawned on me just how awful the Steelers management has become. The whole thing is indefensible. Worse, they were not really forced to throw a #20 pick at a qb, that again was a calculated decision, one that does not fit with an aging defense.
Don’t understand the point you are making here. You are saying that because Pickett was not in the top four ACC qbs in TD passes each of these years he was a below average quarterback for all the years at Pitt except his last year?
What's wrong with taking a quarterback in the first round of the draft when you don't have one? The mental gymnastics in this thread are as impressive as anything I've ever seen.
First round quarterbacks are bad picks. Kenny Pickett exceeded expectations. I just need to know how the Illuminati factors into all of this and I'll be set.
It's just a message board - you're doing the same exact thing.
He might've met or exceeded expectations compared to other QB's who've been drafted at that range. However, as everyone knows the QB hit rate for even 1st rounders isn't that good. There are plenty of articles that describe the #'s behind it. But - all of those QB's who didn't cut it failed to meet expectations. KP isn't alone in that discussion.
So you're telling me that when teams happen select QB's after the 12th pick, they haven't convinced themselves that this player's floor isn't high enough to be a franchise QB in a league where we've seen countless examples of QB's drafted beyond the 12th pick?
Many "experts" criticized the pick. https://steelersdepot.com/2023/07/k...last-five-years-compared-to-2024-draft-class/
Here is a hypothetical for you. I think Rooney told Tomlin that if don't fix the QB situation, you'll be employed elsewhere next season. Why? If you're Rooney, you see the pick and all the decision making with drafting Pickett, signing Mitch, handling Rudolph, hiring Canada, etc and say - "this was done on your watch Mike." "You signed off on all of this." That's probably why it was reported that Kenny was going to be benched after the Cleveland game and Canada was going to keep his job. It appeared there is/was some serious riff going on between ownership and management.
Curious, how do you define franchise qb? For example, does Ryan Tannehill rate?
I'll say it again. No QB was going to have a good season with Canada as the OC, that OL an ond those diva WRs. Canada has not been hired, suggesting that his offense is not going to be effective anywhere. The Steelers selected THREE offensive lineman with their first 5 picks. And of course, KP is apparently looking good in Philly. If I was him and had a choice, I'd bolt, too. He was not the problem.
It's the ACC, outside of Lawrence there were no gems at the QB position his 1st 4 seasons @ PITT.
He was an average at best QB prior to his 5th year.
Sort through the #'s, and list your rationale why he was a "good" QB prior to 2021
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2020-passing.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2019-passing.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/acc/2018-passing.html
I thought Khan/Weidl have been really good over the past two years adding better talent through the draft as well as some key free agent signings like Seumalo and Queen.
If you are counting on a #20 pick to quickly turn a bad/average offense into a Superbowl contender you made a questionable move. Watt and Heyward didn't have that much time left, it would maybe been better to get a solid veteran and go from there....but if you think it was a good pick, so be it.
You're making my point. He didn't live up to lofty, and frankly unwarranted, expectations in his first two year. Two years where he was forced to play with a horrendous OC and putrid OL, yet he still won games.
People should be blaming Tomlin rather than KP and his lack of TD passes.
I'd say Tannehill is probably on the fringe.
I'm glad you brought up Tannehill as I always thought he was a good comp for KP, and low an behold I did post that two years ago.
Compare Kenny P
I have a friend who has never watched KP play. I am trying to think of some NFL QBs that he most resembles. Hes not some unicorn but damn if Im not having a hard time trying to put my finger on who he would be most comparable to.
pittsburgh.forums.rivals.com
Edit: Tannehill was a top 10 pick too.
I mean...he was *part* of the problem. Most rookie QBs are (sure, he wasn't a rookie last year, but his growth was certainly stunted with the sh*tshow around him). It wasn't an environment that allowed him to shine, but he could have played better too. He has to own some of it, and I bet he does.
Again, I think Philly is a great spot for him. I don't think it was a coincidence he mentioned 'communication' in that interview the other day though. His butt still seems to be chapped from what happened during that Seattle week, and if it went down how DK said it did (which seems likely given that he all but said Trubisky and/or Rudolph was his source) I'd probably be bitter about that too.
The best move they could make is realizing that the roster isn't good enough and trade Watt (while he still has value) to help replenish the overall talent.
I thought that was the case also but now not so sure the play calling (many dump offs to Najee) wasn't by choice and not Ben's physical limitations.
The next playoff win with TJ Watt will be the first playoff win with TJ Watt.
Stockpile picks then make a trade of you need to. Unfortunately, the stillers would probably bundle their picks together draft another average running back.
Personally, I think it is not particularly fruitful to evaluate college qbs this way and to infer something about pro potential. Statistically, Joe Burrow was a below average qb except for one year in college, same was true for Josh Allen, same was true for Tom Brady. On the other hand, Landry Jones was outstanding statistically for all four years at Oklahoma, Kellen Moore was too at Boise State. What’s the point?
I was at the game when freshman Pickett led the Panthers to an upset over Miami, and I remember walking back to the car with friends and we were all feeling like Duzz had found his next starting qb1, someone he could build the offense around. He must have felt the same way because he completely committed to Pickett after that game, fired his good friend Shawn Watson the following season, and brought in a passing game expert as OC, who developed Pickett into a first rate passer who eventually led the team to an ACC championship and became Pitt’s all time passing leader. IMO, there is nothing below average about this story.
Joe Burrow was an average to below average QB in college outside of his last year - everyone agree with that. His situation probably was different then Pickett's. The QB room at OSU was drastically different then the one Pickett was in at PITT and that's why he wasn't on the field until late in his career.
Tom Brady was in the same boat. He was in a QB room early on with a national champion QB in Greise and later with the #1 player in the country in Henson.
Kellen Moore and Landry Jones each had better college careers then Pickett. Pickett had 1 really good year. It doesn't mean that Jones/Moore were better pro prospects then KP.
In terms of pro potential - QBs get drafted high all the time without a ton of production or success in college. My entire point is, we've seen 1 year of really good football from KP in the last 7 years. Kenny got drafted in the 1st round because of his senior year and the ridiculously weak QB year of 2022. Had Kenny came out the year before, he obviously wouldn't have been a 1st round pick.
It's pretty common to be a 1st round QB with only one really good season. Not just Burrow but Kyler and Cam Newton, plus some other busts like Trubisky.
Kenny had a mixed profile but there was a lot of good. It was mostly good IMHO. There were minuses (primarily age at draft and lack of early production or efficiency) and pluses (starting experience, pass volume, best year production which was really elite, best year efficiency which was also good). The age thing actually kinda cuts both ways because he was the best QB on the roster by the end of his freshman season. Despite his age he was the best analytical profile in the class.
The tape was also a mixed bag. He played in a vertical offense with full-field reads against top competition. He was the only QB in the 2022 class you can say that about. Tools and arm strength were fine. Accuracy was fine. Mobility good. Sack avoidance was good. The downsides were nervous feet, sometimes slow processing, and drifting/not climbing in the pocket. But again, overall, this was a good developmental profile. Definitely not a 1st round lock but not a bad pick there either. I think Kenny went in the early range of where he could go.
But this is how scouting looks, especially with a QB at pick 20. Based on his overall profile, I thought that he was a somewhat long-shot for major further development but that overall success in the NFL (i.e., winning games and moderate production) was within his range of outcomes. The Steelers didn't have a franchise QB on the roster and I was fine taking Pickett in those circumstances. I know that the next QB didn't go until round 3 and pre-draft a lot of people had them all ranked together but I do think Pickett was the best of the bunch and he's mostly validated that (Sam Howell was a stat padder with 2x the attempts; dreadful efficiency and negative plays // similar story with Ridder who had comparable production to Kenny but way more turnovers and negative plays // Malik Willis couldn't even get on the field for a team that also lacks a QB and then he was drafted over).
All of the negatives showed up in the NFL. Some of the positives showed up. I'd say it was more negative than positive. But as had been litigated ad nauseum, Kenny had to play in uniquely challenging circumstances. It was always going to be a long shot for him and he needed a really good environment to thrive. Something like peak Andy Dalton with a really good OL, run game, and WR. It's a shame that the Steelers basically did the exact opposite and so foolishly wasted that pick.
Do you ever look at rate stats? I feel like I have to respond to your volume-only perspective every week.
Ben had 3,700 yards on 605 attempts. Sam Howell last year went for 3946 and 21 TDs on 612 attempts.
The Steelers are where they are at because the last two years of the Tomlin Colbert show was a joke and the owner just went along for the ride.
Canada literally was terrible everywhere other than one season at PITT
He parlayed that into several terrible seasons at LSU , Maryland and the Steelers
It’s completely undeniable
PPG UNDER CANADA
2008 - 20 PPG
2009 - 23 PPG
2010 - 27 PPG
2011 - 38 PPG
2012 - 30 PPG
2013 - 23 PPG
2014 - 30 PPG
2015 - 33 PPG
2016 - 40 PPG
2017 - 27 PPG
2018 - 28 PPG
Literally terrible is a stretch - he was pretty average outside of a few seasons.
Canada was at his best when he was systematic and I'm not defending him but I don't think he had full reigns of his offense once he left PITT. I don't think Durkin let him have complete reigns and I remember Orgeron not buying into all of the shifts/motions and jet action stuff. Rothlisberger did not want to go under center and to me when Canada was at his best it's when he was under center. When Canada was really systematic, he was excellent. When he's trying to play straight up, his feel for the game is poor.
I suspect Canada will pick up a job as an OC at the FCS level or he'll get hired on as an analyst or position coach at the FBS level in a year or 2.
Man. How does someone go from OC with the Steelers to possibly needing to move to FCS to get the same job?
This is why I think Rooney probably told Tomlin, you got us into this mess. You signed off on Canada, Pickett, the OL decisions, drafting Najee, etc etc etc.. You either make major changes or ....??
I wish you people would just realize that KP is only a quitter and never was any good. Did he ever "wine and dine" the OL?
Get real. The off-season is the new postseason for the Steelers.
Get real. The off-season is the new postseason for the Steelers.
"I think Rooney told Tomlin that if don't fix the QB situation, you'll be employed elsewhere next season." Crack or LSD? The possibility of Rooney dressing down Tomlin is equivalent to my winning the Powerball 4 times in secession.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Absolutely. I don't buy into the "Rooney told him, or else" bit because it shouldn't have taken this long to get there. Barring a humiliating off field scandal or a complete multi-year collapse, Tomlin is probably here as long as he wants to be.
If he gets the contract extension they're talking about this offseason, he'll certainly be back even with a worse record than that.
I think their discontent with Kenny was his push back on being lied to and it became public via the Seahawks game. I think it was more of that than anything else.
