And the comp for Pickett would be who, exactly? He's basically Kordell Stewart.
Kenny Impressing Early In Philly!
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And the comp for Pickett would be who, exactly? He's basically Kordell Stewart.
I keep on saying this over and over. The Steelers were a joke of a franchise under Art Rooney. When his son Dan took over, they became THE STEELERS. Dan orchestrated they dynasty. He is the guy who hired Chuck Noll over Joe Paterno. (The Chief wanted the latter). Who hired Bill Nunn that gave the Steelers a leg up in drafting guys from HBCU's like Greenwood, Stallworth, Shell, White, etc... Drafting Franco over Robert Newhouse. Drafting Ben over some OT that Cowher wanted. As Dan handed reigns over to his son, Art II, the Steelers gradually started to descend into mediocrity and now since he has died, they are just another NFL franchise with nothing to champion.
I have my doubts on Kenny's abilities, but alot of QB's are ruined their first couple of years by starting in really bad situations and becoming essentially shell shocked. Drafting him, and retaining Canada was a crime. Bringing Canada back just shows how bad it was. Allowing Tomlin to surround himself with garbage coaches and the smallest staff is on Art II. Allowing Colbert to man the draft on his way out was stupid.
The Steelers are now the Houston Texans or Tennessee Titans. Just another team.
No way, Stewart was pretty ahead of his time. He'd probably rip it up with modern NFL coaching.
To me, Kenny is close to Marcus Mariota.
I don't defend him because I think he's secretly good. I defend him because I think he's a lot better than people give him credit for and could have at least been a usable QB given different circumstances. It's unfortunate that he went to a team that's allergic to modern NFL offense (because the coach doesn't understand it and the owner prefers easy lies to hard truths).
Of course…because you can’t deny that having Matt Canada as your NFL coordinator is nothing short of the dumbest OC hire in the history of the game. It’s a dumb move with a vet QB and it’s incredibly dumb to put a 1st round QB investment in his hands. One can say the construction of the offense was dumb too. I argued nonstop even before Kenny was here (the receipts are on these boards) that there was too much cap money tied up in the defense. So maybe I can argue that the roster construction was dumb but I won’t. I’ll just stop with the Canada hire and retention last season. But that’s where it ends. It wasn’t dumb to bring in Russell Wilson for a 39 million dollar discount. And it wasn’t dumb to let Kenny go if he didn’t want to be here.
We all said it then that it was bad business to give him that contract. Another example of the Steelers decline in recent years.
Bingo.
I was also a Kordell defender because the dude played for a different OC essentially every year. Give him an innovative guy like Purdy has or an Andy Reid, and Kordell would have been an all pro IMO.
And I feel like I have to say this AGAIN to the Kenny haters in this thread because I’ve been one of the 3 most vocal people here…I AM NOT A KENNY FAN. I think the dude has the charisma of a pillow. I just defend him like I’d defend Rudolph or anyone else who had to operate within this offense.
Kordell rushed for 500 yard and 11 TDs his 1st year as a starter, If KP had done that it might not be as bad, but that year Kordell threw for 21 TDs. Who knows what he could have been with a Lamar Jackson style offense.
DJ on his best day is a WR3 on an average offense. The stillers tried to make him a WR1; he's not.
Which excuses? The steeler offense won’t be as bad if you’re referring to excuses they’ll make for Wilson and Fields. They have a real coordinator now. Granted not a great one, but still one that should have them in the middle of the pack by some metrics.
What I really want to see is if Tomlin can make Fields take care of the ball the way he made Kenny take care of the ball.
What I would guarantee is that Fields would not have had a winning % that Kenny had in this offense under Canada. He would have been Mitch in that offense. Turnover machine. Losing machine.
And I’ll say it again in case people ignored it here…Wilson’s QBR was lower than Kenny’s over the past two years. He would have sucked just as bad under Canada. Most QBs would have.
In 2019, his first year under Whipple, Pickett ended up ranked 28th in the country in FBS passing yards. In 2020, he ended up ranked 21st. In 2021, he ended up ranked 6th. This is “below average”? Just as a comparison for the years they overlapped in college, Justin Fields was ranked 23rd in ‘19 and 36 in ‘20, although he only played in 8 games that year.
Pickett threw 81 TD passes while at Pitt, which is the most in Pitt football history.
Average/Below Average is subjective.
However, this is how the ACC coaches saw it -
In 2019 -
Trevor Lawrence - 1st team (36 TDs)
Bryce Perkins - 2nd team (22 TDs)
Sam Howell - 3rd team (38 TDs)
Jamie Newman - Hon Mention (26 TDs)
KP - 13 TDs
Fields - 41 TDs
In 2020 -
Trevor Lawrence - 1st team (24 TDs)
Sam Howell - 2nd team (30 TDs)
Ian Book - 3rd team (15 TDs)
D'Eriq King - Hon Mention (23 TDs)
KP - 13 TDs
Fields - 22 TDs in 8 games
2021 - KP lit the stat sheet up and consequently he had his best year and PITT had a good year. Prior to 2021 he was an average college QB.
For clarification that’s what many argue about Kenny in the NFL. It’s just that the “kenny sucks” gang has a pretty loud and intellectually shallow voice when it came to the last two years.
I will die on the hill that Jordan Addison was the best (and most important) offensive player on that '21 squad.
You don’t have breakout games in that situation… holy shit people
You have jailbreak offenses … you have opposing defenses knowing exactly what’s coming… you have high school looking play calling and ultimately chaos
Which is exactly what we got … blame the stubborn Steelers for waiting around hoping this combination was magically going to “break out”
And now? Heh… not convinced you’ll see anything dramatically different this fall. A lot of the ATLANTA fans I know are telling me this new guy is pretty conservative run the ball etc… plus I think even with drafting new OL that typically takes awhile to gell… not some immediate light switch.
He doesn't suck. He was drafted in a spot that put the expectations way above his pedigree. There is a chance, he gets put around the right talent and coaching where he is successful. It just remains to be seen if Kenny will ever be a franchise QB.
Arthur Smith may not be Shanahan or Reid, but he’s a viable NFL OC who was regarded high enough to be a HC in the league. Compared to the guy who ran a Friday night offense, this years team will have a markedly better offensive. That is unless Wilson or Fields stink up the joint. But the QBs on this team at least are set up for success more than the previous QB.
Well we need to offer Wilson the excuse of a lack of receiving options. We said Pickett didn't have any, and they've only gotten more scarce since then.
It’s not an excuse if it’s a legit issue. I don’t disagree. People don’t see past the QB. When Mason tied Detroit a couple of years ago, he played with no TE, and only one NFL receiver that day. Not to mention rain and 40 mile an hour winds. People here and everywhere bitched and moaned that Mason wasn’t an NFL QB. Other than me of course.
He isn't. Not a starter anyway. He has sucked plenty of times in decent weather, also.
There you go again. Your opinion is of Mason as a young QB in a bad offense that even Ben struggled in. Mason is a full on NFL QB. That’s not an opinion.
Who said otherwise? He’s an NFL QB period and barring injury will easily have over a decade of service before he hangs up the cleats. Or the clipboard.
And by the way…here’s another example of the strawman argument that lil flea talked about yesterday. I didnt argue in this case that he’s an nfl starter.
You and some others! Lol. You guys were defending him starting until Kingdom Come. He's a low-level backup.
That's why the Picket apologists are bordering on cultish, in my opinion. There's a straw man, and it's in the exact opposite direction.
Think about it - would there have been as much debate as there was if someone was saying Rudolph was a low-level backup who could only get one year at an annual rate less than Derek Watt? No one debated that; we just didn't want him starting for prolong periods of time.
It's the same with Pickett. We're hoping he turns it around, though we acknowledge it'd be unlikely given what he has shown thus far. But no one is saying it's impossible. Very few people, if anyone, have written him off for good. You guys are playing both sides of the fence and setting yourselves up to be "right" either way.
Ah, so it's kind of like your mother's basement used to be before you showed up?
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I'm okay with that argument but I don't see this as a "Pickett issue" for the Steelers as much as I see it as a "Tomlin issue". This prevailing philosophy that you try to just be a little better on offense that what the defense can support hasn't worked in a while. Heck, even when they had a WR and RB and QB all putting up all-pro stats, it didn't work. Really think Ben made lemonade out of lemons while the defense was always a salary cap priority.
I do wonder if Tomlin wants to play that way or if he has thought he has to. They slung the ball all over tarnation when it was Ben in his prime, AB, etc. I still blame Tomlin/management for not being able to get better players in here, though, so they don't have to run a Flintstone offense.
He was drafted in a spot where a majority of QBs fail, and a very small minority ever become franchise QBs. He's likely met or exceeded his draft position already.
The expectations were pretty stupid, and set by people who don't understand anything about the draft, or football. Anyone considered a potential franchise QB typically doesn't make it out of the top 10.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Not so much how they run the offense as much as how they tool it. They have chosen to invest the most money in the defense. Chris Boswell makes more than most, if not all, of the skill guys on offense. The defense is stacked with seasoned veterans.
The primary gripe every stiller fan should have is they signed an over-the-hill QB and a never has been to lead to a rebuild.
If Wilson somehow becomes an average NFL QB again this year; do you sign him to a long-term deal to watch his production continue to fall off?
Personally, I can see them starting over at QB next year as well while making excuses for their questionable decision making.
All of this goes back to why they didn't put their 1st round pick in a better position to be successful, then make a decision on his future. It's just a poorly run organization.
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I feel like it's the result of actually hitting on defense, though. Cam, Watt, and Highsmith were all draft picks. Minkah was on a rookie salary that basically functioned as a draft pick would. They weren't free agents they brought in sucking up big cap space. Of course, it goes a little deeper than that. They let the defense all age out at the same time, so they had to invest a ton of years and draft capital into rebuilding it... so they were bound to hit on some.
Feels like the same thing is happening to the offense now. It sucks, but if guys like Fautana, Jones, Frazier, Pickens, etc. pan out then the salary cap is going to be heavily skewed in favor of the offense. Especially if and when they bring in a real QB. And the defense will basically look like the Little Giants. The Steel See-Saw.
My issue isn't necessarily with the lack of passing attempts, it was with the kind of passing attempts we did. Almost dead last in play action is one example. This is not acceptable in the modern NFL unless you have a top 5 QB.
Play action makes things easier on the QB. You get the defense running one way and then throw it the other way. It's pretty simple. Every single fan understands the mechanics of it but Matt Canada preferred these stupid straight dropbacks like it's 1983 and our QB is Dan Marino.
73 play action attempts all year. Tied for second to last. Most of the league was over 100. And the top of the list has a lot of successful offenses with QBs that we can safely describe as "mere mortals" (Lions #2, Browns #3, Dolphins #6, Packers #9). Only 15% of our passing yards came from play action, this was also almost dead last in the league. Most teams were around 20%. A full 32% of the Falcons' passing yards were from play action! They had QB, WR, and RB talent roughly similar to ours and still managed significantly more out of it than the Steelers did by being smarter.
And when he did drop back, Kenny was the second most pressured QB in the entire league with at least 200 passing attempts.
So again, the scheme was stupid and unnecessarily hard. And a lot of the players couldn't execute it anyway. But did we try to switch it up? Eventually, but it took nearly 3 full seasons of having the worst OC in NFL history and letting our QB get crushed to pieces to get there. And then once we fired said OC suddenly, magically, everyone - including 2 of the 3 QBs on the roster - got a lot better!
I think it's beyond dispute that this was not an appropriate environment for a young QB. Probably not any QB. Canada's system was simply not going to work and it was malpractice to keep him as long as the team did.
