Kenny Impressing Early In Philly!

[lilspainishflea]

Not so much how they run the offense as much as how they tool it. They have chosen to invest the most money in the defense. Chris Boswell makes more than most, if not all, of the skill guys on offense. The defense is stacked with seasoned veterans.

I don't think they're necessarily choosing defense. They just don't have anyone on offense worthy of being paid. Everyone on the offense is cheap because they're either on a rookie contract, they suck, or both.

They've whiffed a ton on that side of the ball. What are the possible explanations for having only 1 dude who would get truly paid on the open market. Bad luck? Dumb coaching that doesn't understand the modern game? Poor personnel selection? Bad development practices? All of the above? We have to be honest with ourselves that the offense has been a horror show since well prior to #8 getting the keys. Who is to blame for that?

The longer and more deeply that I think about this, the more I conclude that Tomlin just doesn't know what he's doing on offense. This leads to poor hiring, poor deployment, and poor development and ultimately 11 guys who are more or less league average players (or worse). Fans blame the players because they don't understand the game well. They just don't watch the Dolphins for 49ers film enough to see that the Steelers are playing a much different, and worse, version of the game. Or they are locked into Tomlin's glory days from 15 years ago.

I'm also not totally convinced that Tomlins is smart on defense, either, but he has 3 superstar veterans there holding the fort who could be papering over issues in a pretty significant way.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I don't think they're necessarily choosing defense. They just don't have anyone on offense worthy of being paid. Everyone on the offense is cheap because they're either on a rookie contract, they suck, or both.

They've whiffed a ton on that side of the ball. What are the possible explanations for having only 1 dude who would get truly paid on the open market. Bad luck? Dumb coaching that doesn't understand the modern game? Poor personnel selection? Bad development practices? All of the above? We have to be honest with ourselves that the offense has been a horror show since well prior to #8 getting the keys. Who is to blame for that?

The longer and more deeply that I think about this, the more I conclude that Tomlin just doesn't know what he's doing on offense. This leads to poor hiring, poor deployment, and poor development and ultimately 11 guys who are more or less league average players (or worse). Fans blame the players because they don't understand the game well. They just don't watch the Dolphins for 49ers film enough to see that the Steelers are playing a much different, and worse, version of the game. Or they are locked into Tomlin's glory days from 15 years ago.

I'm also not totally convinced that Tomlins is smart on defense, either, but he has 3 superstar veterans there holding the fort who could be papering over issues in a pretty significant way.

Are we sure Tomlin is better at building defense than offense, or did he just throw so much capital at it - while depriving the offense - that some of it was bound to stick?

First round picks spent on defense

2013 - Jarvis Jones (miss)
2014 - Ryan Shazier (a hit that became a miss)
2015 - Bud Dupree (meh)
2016 - Artie Burns (miss)
2017 - TJ Watt (hit)
2018 - Terrell Edmunds (meh)
2019 - Devin Bush (miss, and he cost a 2nd and 3rd as well)
2020 - Minkah (hit)

Same thing is happening right before our eyes on offense. 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 first round picks - all offense. Next year could very well be a receiver or QB.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

He was drafted in a spot where a majority of QBs fail, and a very small minority ever become franchise QBs. He's likely met or exceeded his draft position already.

The expectations were pretty stupid, and set by people who don't understand anything about the draft, or football. Anyone considered a potential franchise QB typically doesn't make it out of the top 10.

I highly doubt if you asked the majority of the NFL GM's that if drafting a QB in the 1st round which resulted in the lowest TD % in NFL history was exceeding or meeting his draft position, I think they'd probably disagree with you.

If you draft a QB in the 1st round, there is a general expectation by the organization that he's a franchise QB. Otherwise, why would you spend resources like a 1st round pick on at best a middling player, when you can acquire that player later in the draft or through free agency?

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Almost dead last in play action is one example. This is not acceptable in the modern NFL unless you have a top 5 QB.

Play action makes things easier on the QB. You get the defense running one way and then throw it the other way. It's pretty simple.

I don't disagree with your post but can I ask if you were a fan of Cigs?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Are we sure Tomlin is better at building defense than offense, or did he just throw so much capital at it - while depriving the offense - that some of it was bound to stick?

First round picks spent on defense

2013 - Jarvis Jones (miss)
2014 - Ryan Shazier (a hit that became a miss)
2015 - Bud Dupree (meh)
2016 - Artie Burns (miss)
2017 - TJ Watt (hit)
2018 - Terrell Edmunds (meh)
2019 - Devin Bush (miss, and he cost a 2nd and 3rd as well)
2020 - Minkah (hit)

Same thing is happening right before our eyes on offense. 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 first round picks - all offense. Next year could very well be a receiver or QB.

I probably have 100 posts on this board over the past couple of years complaining about all the cap resources being invested on that side of the ball…and then that side of the ball significantly underachieving.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

I highly doubt if you asked the majority of the NFL GM's that if drafting a QB in the 1st round which resulted in the lowest TD % in NFL history was exceeding or meeting his draft position, I think they'd probably disagree with you.

If you draft a QB in the 1st round, there is a general expectation by the organization that he's a franchise QB. Otherwise, why would you spend resources like a 1st round pick on at best a middling player, when you can acquire that player later in the draft or through free agency?

And there was that report of course after the season where essentially every GM questioned about Kenny were bullish on him as a player and said he was a product of his system.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

And there was that report of course after the season where essentially every GM questioned about Kenny were bullish on him as a player and said he was a product of his system.

c'mon.. do you seriously think any GM is going to support the idea of a 1st round QB who played like KP was meeting or even exceeding expectations?

 

[Fk_Pitt]

c'mon.. do you seriously think any GM is going to support the idea of a 1st round QB who played like KP was meeting or even exceeding expectations?

I think most every GM is smart enough to see the middle school offense that he played within. It’s a miracle they won as many games as they did.

 

[Schaef60]

Pickett threw 81 TD passes while at Pitt, which is the most in Pitt football history.

More than half in one season.

 

[303vND]

c'mon.. do you seriously think any GM is going to support the idea of a 1st round QB who played like KP was meeting or even exceeding expectations?

Well said GM who made the selection should be fired or revamp the offensive coaches and/or philosophy. Don't make the investment to draft a QB and then surround him with horse manure.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I think most every GM is smart enough to see the middle school offense that he played within. It’s a miracle they won as many games as they did.

Having a top 5 defense goes a long way.

and no GM is going to say a 1st round QB is meeting or exceed expectations.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Well said GM who made the selection should be fired or revamp the offensive coaches and/or philosophy. Don't make the investment to draft a QB and then surround him with horse manure.

The HC should have been fired years ago.

However, even with all of the additions the Steelers made in the off-season, the HC thought KP wasn't good enough that he went out and brought in 2 QBs that some are saying are middling at best.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

The HC should have been fired years ago.

However, even with all of the additions the Steelers made in the off-season, the HC thought KP wasn't good enough that he went out and brought in 2 QBs that some are saying are middling at best.

Fake news. They brought in the vet. Who wouldn’t at that discount? Sometimes I think even you don’t believe your nonsense. You are surly trolling at this point.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Fake news. They brought in the vet. Who wouldn’t at that discount? Sometimes I think even you don’t believe your nonsense. You are surly trolling at this point.

So you're telling me - Tomlin/Khan and the rest of that locker room thought KP was the guy, so much so that they wanted to see Kenny compete with Russ? If that's the case, then KP walked away from competition. When in reality, they didn't and neither did the team believe in KP. They recognized their draft mistake, and knew if the right situation presented itself, they were going to replace him.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

So you're telling me - Tomlin/Khan and the rest of that locker room thought KP was the guy, so much so that they wanted to see Kenny compete with Russ? If that's the case, then KP walked away from competition. When in reality, they didn't and neither did the team believe in KP. They recognized their draft mistake, and knew if the right situation presented itself, they were going to replace him.

Just listen to yourself!!! They were able to get a seasoned vet for a bargain basement price. That’s good business. He replaced Mason on the roster. Fields replaced Kenny after kenny wanted out. One underperforming 1st round pick for another. Pretty simple. Both needed change.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Just listen to yourself!!! They were able to get a seasoned vet for a bargain basement price. That’s good business. He replaced Mason on the roster. Fields replaced Kenny after kenny wanted out. One underperforming 1st round pick for another. Pretty simple. Both needed change.

So you're on record that you believe KP had the backing of the front office and the locker room?

"He replaced Mason on the roster." C'mon now... Are you talking Fields or Russ? Russ definitely didn't get signed to replace Mason. Russ was brought in to replace KP not to compete nor not to replace Mason.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

So you're on record that you believe KP had the backing of the front office and the locker room?

"He replaced Mason on the roster." C'mon now... Are you talking Fields or Russ? Russ definitely didn't get signed to replace Mason. Russ was brought in to replace KP not to compete nor not to replace Mason.

go back to the beginning of your bullshit Warren thread and read it again. Maybe something will sink in the second time. It’s been spelled out to you 1000 times over. I’m done wasting my time.

 

[pittdan77]

Are we sure Tomlin is better at building defense than offense, or did he just throw so much capital at it - while depriving the offense - that some of it was bound to stick?

This is my point. I mean, do that exercise with the offensive players taken in the first round. Do it with the first three rounds the last five years. It's much worse. Who's the best 3rd round or better offensive pick 2018-23?

2018 - 2 James Washington WR
2018 - 3A Mason Rudolph QB
2018 - 3B Chukc Okorafor OT
2019 - 3A Diontae Johnson WR
2020 - 2 Chase Claypool WR
2021 - 1 Najee Harris RB
2021 - 2 Pat Freiermuth TE
2021 - 3 Kendrick Green C
2022 - 1 Kenny Pickett QB
2022 - 2 George Pickens WR
2023 - 1 Broderick Jones OT

That's not just missing. That's whiffing badly. As of today, Pickens and Jones are the only two under contract after 2024.

 

[303vND]

The HC should have been fired years ago.

However, even with all of the additions the Steelers made in the off-season, the HC thought KP wasn't good enough that he went out and brought in 2 QBs that some are saying are middling at best.

Naw...that's not how it went down. He made a commitment to a QB(the only team in the league who was going to do so) who was given $39MM to leave, thus allowing a team to go cheap and offer the league minimum(right up the Steelers alley). Secondly, Fields would not have been here if Kenny hadn't requested a trade. But keep trying to misdirect..you'll get there one day.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Naw...that's not how it went down. He made a commitment to a QB(the only team in the league who was going to do so) who was given $39MM to leave, thus allowing a team to go cheap and offer the league minimum(right up the Steelers alley). Secondly, Fields would not have been here if Kenny hadn't requested a trade. But keep trying to misdirect..you'll get there one day.

so why was Russ signed again?

 

[steelcurtain55.]

go back to the beginning of your bullshit Warren thread and read it again. Maybe something will sink in the second time. It’s been spelled out to you 1000 times over. I’m done wasting my time.

Only a few PITT fans think that KP had the support of the locker room. You must be one of them. When the point of that thread was that Warren among others - Minkah, Heyward, Peterson, and Watt have proved with their actions/words that they didn't believe Kenny was the solution at QB. They literally were openly recruiting a different QB in front of everyone to see.

Even with all the scheme problems, they still think KP was a major reason why.

You can sit and argue all you want about x's/o's, Dulac, Sanders, Kaboly, Madden, etc until you're blue in the face.

I've argued from day 1, that the Steelers made a business decision because they didn't think he was good enough. They saw enough.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I highly doubt if you asked the majority of the NFL GM's that if drafting a QB in the 1st round which resulted in the lowest TD % in NFL history was exceeding or meeting his draft position, I think they'd probably disagree with you.

If you draft a QB in the 1st round, there is a general expectation by the organization that he's a franchise QB. Otherwise, why would you spend resources like a 1st round pick on at best a middling player, when you can acquire that player later in the draft or through free agency?

Who is going to ask your hypothetical question that nobody is going to answer? It's a useless statement.

The facts are that QBs looked at as potential franchise QBs get snatched up before the 20s. Your comment in your 2nd paragraph is exactly why there are so few QBs drafted in the second half of the first round. The "franchise" guys go way earlier and there's more value at other positions.

These are the QBs who get picked 15 - 32. That's it, that's the list over the last 15 years.
2022 - #20 KP
2021 - #15 Mac Jones
2020 - #26 Jordan Love
2019 - #15 Dwayne Haskins
2018 - #32 Lamar Jackson
2016 - #26 Paxton Lynch
2014 - #22 Johnny Manziel
2014 - #32 Teddy Bridgewater
2013 - #16 EJ Manual
2012 - #22 Brandon Weeden
2010 - #25 Tim Tebow

 

[303vND]

so why was Russ signed again?

Because he was cheap! If he was let's say $25MM do you think the Steeler would have reached out to him to start?

 

[joeydavid]

c'mon.. do you seriously think any GM is going to support the idea of a 1st round QB who played like KP was meeting or even exceeding expectations?

Aditi Kinkhabwala flat out said multiple GMs told her they would gladly take Pickett and win with him today. Of course those GMs are not going to saddle him with a Matt Canada, an awful Oline and little to no talent around him.

 

[joeydavid]

so why was Russ signed again?

The stillers went dumpster diving and made another brilliant move by signing a guy who after 2 season at his last job couldn't remember a playbook and snap count. Lol.

 

[Schaef60]

Aditi Kinkhabwala flat out said multiple GMs told her they would gladly take Pickett and win with him today. Of course those GMs are not going to saddle him with a Matt Canada, an awful Oline and little to no talent around him.

So,all reports that make Kenny look good are true.and those that make him look like a quitter are false.😂😂😂

 

[joeydavid]

So,all reports that make Kenny look good are true.and those that make him look like a quitter are false.😂😂😂

Do you think she has a dog in this "fight"? Now do the lazy local hack reporter...🤔

 

[lilspainishflea]

Who is going to ask your hypothetical question that nobody is going to answer? It's a useless statement.

The facts are that QBs looked at as potential franchise QBs get snatched up before the 20s. Your comment in your 2nd paragraph is exactly why there are so few QBs drafted in the second half of the first round. The "franchise" guys go way earlier and there's more value at other positions.

These are the QBs who get picked 15 - 32. That's it, that's the list over the last 15 years.
2022 - #20 KP
2021 - #15 Mac Jones
2020 - #26 Jordan Love
2019 - #15 Dwayne Haskins
2018 - #32 Lamar Jackson
2016 - #26 Paxton Lynch
2014 - #22 Johnny Manziel
2014 - #32 Teddy Bridgewater
2013 - #16 EJ Manual
2012 - #22 Brandon Weeden
2010 - #25 Tim Tebow

So two were franchise QBs:

- Lamar Jackson, who, let's face it, would have easily been a top 10 pick post-2018; and
- Jordan Love, who sat for 3 years and then played in the Shanahan system (potentially the only one that works in the modern NFL).

It's a pretty bare bones list of QBs going in that range. And basically the only success story is a guy who sat for multiple years and then played in an elite system. Makes the Steelers approach of throwing Kenny to the wolves in week 5 and saddling him with the worst OC in modern NFL history even more damning.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Who is going to ask your hypothetical question that nobody is going to answer? It's a useless statement.

It might be useless to you but you're going to have find a hard time finding a GM who would agree that Kenny Pickett was meeting/exceeding the expectations as a starting QB in the NFL. It doesn't matter what round he was drafted in. What we saw at QB in Pittsburgh the past 2 years was below average.

The facts are that QBs looked at as potential franchise QBs get snatched up before the 20s. Your comment in your 2nd paragraph is exactly why there are so few QBs drafted in the second half of the first round. The "franchise" guys go way earlier and there's more value at other positions.

"Potential franchise" QBs could be anyone. If you draft a QB in the 1st round, the general thought is the floor is high enough they can be a franchise QB.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Do you think she has a dog in this "fight"? Now do the lazy local hack reporter...🤔

What is her philosophy on saunas?

 

[Schaef60]

Aditi Kinkhabwala flat out said multiple GMs told her they would gladly take Pickett and win with him today. Of course those GMs are not going to saddle him with a Matt Canada, an awful Oline and little to no talent around

Yet,6 GMs pick qbs in the first 12 picks when they could of had Kenny buy moving back into the 4th round.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

The stillers went dumpster diving and made another brilliant move by signing a guy who after 2 season at his last job couldn't remember a playbook and snap count. Lol.

Denver must have some insane offensive talent around him to make up for his lack of mental abilities though. I mean for not being able to remember the "playbook" and snap count, he seemed to do okay putting up 26 TDs and 8 Ints.

Do you think she has a dog in this "fight"? Now do the lazy local hack reporter...🤔

Didn't Aditi look pretty lazy when the Denver media proved that report to be a hack job? https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/den...-narrative-pittsburgh-steelers-russell-wilson

 

[Pitt79]

Denver must have some insane offensive talent around him to make up for his lack of mental abilities though. I mean for not being able to remember the "playbook" and snap count, he seemed to do okay putting up 26 TDs and 8 Ints.

Didn't Aditi look pretty lazy when the Denver media proved that report to be a hack job? https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/den...-narrative-pittsburgh-steelers-russell-wilson

Throwing TD passes doesn't matter, some here will tell you he's not as good as Kenny and Kenny would have beaten him out.

 

[Burgh15]

Aditi Kinkhabwala flat out said multiple GMs told her they would gladly take Pickett and win with him today. Of course those GMs are not going to saddle him with a Matt Canada, an awful Oline and little to no talent around him.

Also, none of those GMs traded for him either and for how little the Steelers got for him, he would've been an easy acquisition.

Tomlin hired the worst OC in the league, kept him when he failed with Roethlisberger and doubled down keeping him after Pickett's rookie year. There wasn't enough invested into the offensive line nor a serious commitment to the ground game which would've helped Pickett. The weapons, while not great, were good enough. The biggest failure was the pathetic effort at OC and Tomlin's insistence on playing it safe.

Pickett's issues were his biggest weaknesses in college were fully exposed in the NFL. He regressed in year 2 and missed too many plays that were right in front of him. Blame the OC all you want, NFL QBs have to make the plays that are there. I think the biggest negative for Pickett is his receivers did not believe in him. Zero faith that he could get them the ball and they did not hide their displeasure. It got DJ shipped out of town.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

It might be useless to you but you're going to have find a hard time finding a GM who would agree that Kenny Pickett was meeting/exceeding the expectations as a starting QB in the NFL. It doesn't matter what round he was drafted in. What we saw at QB in Pittsburgh the past 2 years was below average.

"Potential franchise" QBs could be anyone. If you draft a QB in the 1st round, the general thought is the floor is high enough they can be a franchise QB.

You keep reciting your opinion like it's fact. It's not, you're just making up hypotheticals.

I said KP met or exceeded his draft position as a QB. I went back 15 years - 11 guys drafted in spots 15-32, 6 of those guys clearly worse than KP, 2 better, and 2 likely similar to KP.

Teams don't draft QBs in the middle to late first round, because anyone considered a franchise guy is gone before that. 15 years worth of picks in spots 15-32 and 11 QBs were drafted. Last 4 years, 13 QBs were taken in picks 1-12. That includes 2022 where 0 were taken.

How dumb would the Steelers need to be to think they're drafting a franchise QB later in the first round? How much dumber would they be to start that QB in his first year behind a garbage OL with the worst OC in history? Then, what kind of morons would blame the QB, rather than the coaches & guys who drafted and put him in that position?

 

[joeydavid]

Denver must have some insane offensive talent around him to make up for his lack of mental abilities though. I mean for not being able to remember the "playbook" and snap count, he seemed to do okay putting up 26 TDs and 8 Ints.

Didn't Aditi look pretty lazy when the Denver media proved that report to be a hack job? https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/den...-narrative-pittsburgh-steelers-russell-wilson

I didn't know you were going to play the "broncos country tonight" card. Lol.

 

[Burgh15]

You keep reciting your opinion like it's fact. It's not, you're just making up hypotheticals.

I said KP met or exceeded his draft position as a QB. I went back 15 years - 11 guys drafted in spots 15-32, 6 of those guys clearly worse than KP, 2 better, and 2 likely similar to KP.

Teams don't draft QBs in the middle to late first round, because anyone considered a franchise guy is gone before that. 15 years worth of picks in spots 15-32 and 11 QBs were drafted. Last 4 years, 13 QBs were taken in picks 1-12. That includes 2022 where 0 were taken.

How dumb would the Steelers need to be to think they're drafting a franchise QB later in the first round? How much dumber would they be to start that QB in his first year behind a garbage OL with the worst OC in history? Then, what kind of morons would blame the QB, rather than the coaches & guys who drafted and put him in that position?

A couple of counterpoints. Pickett did not meet his expectations as a first-round QB. No teams are drafting a player in the first with the expectation they won't see a second contract (except for maybe running back). How dumb was it for the Steelers to believe a first-round player may elevate their own play or create on their own?

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

A couple of counterpoints. Pickett did not meet his expectations as a first-round QB. No teams are drafting a player in the first with the expectation they won't see a second contract (except for maybe running back). How dumb was it for the Steelers to believe a first-round player may elevate their own play or create on their own?

Yeah, I don't exactly get that logic. Especially when Colbert publicly announced that they think they found their QB of the future and when so many guys in later rounds have succeeded. Who in the world would purposefully burn a first round pick while saying, "Well, we just hope he can give us 2ish seasons of low-level production that we could probably get with a mid-round QB" instead of doing literally anything else with said draft pick? You'd take a solid kicker before you did that.

 

[PittComm92]

Only a few PITT fans think that KP had the support of the locker room. You must be one of them. When the point of that thread was that Warren among others - Minkah, Heyward, Peterson, and Watt have proved with their actions/words that they didn't believe Kenny was the solution at QB. They literally were openly recruiting a different QB in front of everyone to see.

Even with all the scheme problems, they still think KP was a major reason why.

You can sit and argue all you want about x's/o's, Dulac, Sanders, Kaboly, Madden, etc until you're blue in the face.

I've argued from day 1, that the Steelers made a business decision because they didn't think he was good enough. They saw enough.

I agree that KP lost support in the locker room...especially with certain aging vets desperate for a SB. That's the problem with the franchise at this time though, right? You have some dudes on D making big money who want to win big now on a team that likely can't. By the time the Steelers have a legit SB contending roster, they'll probably be gone. The best long-term plan for the franchise is for them to draft another young QB, take some lumps, and stack good drafts, but the same personalities are probably going to be pissy again if the kid doesn't play like CJ Stroud did right out of the gate.

Plus the HC is a guy who's really good at winning the next game in front of him with what he's got, but maybe not so great at the bigger picture and longer-term planning. I think we should have believed Jay Glazer when he said that Tomlin didn't want to start over with a rookie. He signed off on KP, but I don't think he's wired for it. Hell, I think you can see how happy Tomlin is that Wilson will just manage his QB shit with no need for babysitting.

That's why I think Dak Prescott will probably be a Steeler next year, even if the best thing for the franchise is a new young king. Tomlin is so loyal to his defensive star guys that he'll try to get them a SB even if the attempt will probably fail. I've never been a Tomlin hater, but it feels like the franchise should have moved on a while ago just so they can start actually building toward something rather than repeated tape jobs and salvaged seasons that don't really go anywhere. The mediocrity they're stuck in isn't just about draft position. Tomlin is the one ultimately driving it, even as he means well by wanting the team to be competitive every year.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

A couple of counterpoints. Pickett did not meet his expectations as a first-round QB. No teams are drafting a player in the first with the expectation they won't see a second contract (except for maybe running back). How dumb was it for the Steelers to believe a first-round player may elevate their own play or create on their own?

I'm talking about draft position, not yinzer nation expectations. My initial comment was in reference to a comment about expectations and becoming a franchise QB. Your chances of getting that at #20 aren't real good. If that's what you're banking on, maybe time to find another line of work.

While the Steeler book on him is closed, the rest of it isn't written yet.