Notre dame football is not in the conference. No matter how many times you say it, it doesn’t change the facts.
Say it with me, Notre dame football is an independent, they are NOT in the acc in football.
Neutral Site game
- Thread starter GreatBear71
- Start date
Say it with me, Notre dame football is an independent, they are NOT in the acc in football.
Actuall they are forced by the magical power of money. That amount PSU makes on one home game probably equals 4 or more PItt home games. That money supports the rest of a very large athletics program.
So, the 9 game Big Ten schedule prevented them to go 16 years between games?
And the Pac 12 plays 9 games and yet, Utah and BYU play and Colorado and Colorado State play.
Penn State doesnt want to play for 1 and only 1 reason: the game means more to Pitt and Pitt's fans and they dont want to give Pitt anything to rally around.
And since PSU believes they should beat Pitt every year, Pitt can become their "cupcake" home game and a big-money making one at that. Based on ticket VALUES, 1 Pitt @ PSU game is worth more than 2 MAC @ PSU games. And they get a "home game" in Pittsburh where they bring 50K fans as we have been told.
Could give two healthy sh*ts about ups funding their other sports.
Just like they could care less about us.
Goodbye so long don’t call us.
We were just used to take the interest off of Sandusky and paterno’s coverups.
Just like they could care less about us.
Goodbye so long don’t call us.
We were just used to take the interest off of Sandusky and paterno’s coverups.
Competitively and financially it doesn't make sense to play 2 non-conference home and home series with a 9 game conference schedule. If you don't understand that then we should just end this thread.
The ACC schedules ND for each conference program one or two time every three year period. Those seasons have 9 games dicated by the conference, and Clemson, FSU, Georgia Tech, and Louisville do not suspend their annual in-state rivalries during those years.
Say it with me, the ACC schedules 9 games a season for every conference football member once every two to three years and there is no interruption in existing annual interconference rivalries.
This is all true, but you'll just be labeled a troll for pointing out it.
Honestly, Pitt itself indeed likes the revenue from the sellout, and always takes the pains to make it public that WE want to play THEM annually. But deep within the paneled walls of the admin offices, I believe they're just as happy that the teams won't play.
As you mentioned PSU are the physical embodiment of a program that is balls-in and then some for football, to a fault.
And as such they kick our tails accordingly. It'll be 3 of 4 this time. One TD pass off the fingertips (right before the Lewis pick) of being 4 of 4. 3 of 4 the last time. And regular murders during the early 90s.
Our base is fairly indifferent to our program sucking ... looking like stooges against Clemson last year, for example, yawn. Not winning a bowl in 10 years. They're just exhibitions! Those kids should be studying!
But it's another thing when we suck against PSU. Folks normally not even aware the season started are paying attention to PSU. We are batshit crazy about PSU.
And too many of those PSU butt penetrations, I mean whoopings, and there might be inconvenient hassles directed at the admin.
Losing 3 out of 4, decisively, but in an isolated block every 15 to 20 years, is absorbent to the admin.
But getting killed something like 10 years in a row, every year, and no reason to expect different any year, that wouldn't wash.
We saw that with Stallings. The Pitt admin blithely dumped only its best coach ever for a dried up hack. They didn't worry about repercussions ... if he could only be at least mediocre. Just deliver .500 seasons, maybe make the NIT most of the time. Occasionally, maybe once a decade, sneak a lower NCAA bid. Enough so we could hold an occasional pep rally in the Pete, and Gallagher can don his Pitt polo (don't mess the coif please!) and pretend to give a shit about sports. That would be more than enough.
But when the team not only was bad, but went to absolute hell under Stallings, causing an outrageous national embarrassment ... they were forced to actually do something. Eat a huge, huge deal and hire someone they likely wouldn't have touched normally.
If it sounds familiar BTW, it is exactly what they had to do after Haywood and with Graham... the last time another unpleasant reach down into the Insinkerator of college sports was forced upon the admin. We see how well that shotgun marriage went. Capel? "TBD".
Getting reamed every single year indefinitely by PSU would equate to that.
So I think the whole thing about clamoring to play PSU annually is actually a scam on our part, as much BS as PSUs excuses are BS. We don't want to wake our docile, somnambulent base.
Actually it does. In a 2 year period, the ticket value of 1 Pitt @ Penn State game is worth more than the value of 1 MAC home game each season. Those games go for like $10 on Stubhub. PSU could make more money playing home and home with Pitt
Both are slightly different situations.
Colorado/CSU play in Denver every year so it is a 'neutral site game'.
In Utah - BYU is viewed by many as the better program (despite not being in a p5 conference) - so Utah would take a lot of flack for not scheduling the game. Plus with the church vs state component - it is much like the Pitt PSU rivalry in the 70s/80s.
Iowa/Iowa State is the only other 'true' comparison to Pitt/PSU - and yes they play each other - but again that is more due to the state than anything else.
Pennsylvania is different in that a good portion of the population do not really care about either (the private schools, temple, etc) so there isn't the overall demand.
PA is alot like texas where A&M/UT don't play anymore. When one school has 9 games tied up it becomes harder to schedule a true home and home - and if the demand isn't there - then it won't get done. Texas/A&M could do neutral site games (in Houston/Dallas/SA) - where in PA - PSU would probably dwarf the attendance outside of Pittsburgh.
I grew up in WPA during the 80s and remember the battles. A big part of me would love the game to played yearly - but I also want different teams. PSU will always play 2 cupcakes based on the way things are now. This is why I hope they give conference champs auto bid - and place emphasis on SOS for seeding/wildcards - because I think you will see teams upgrade the schedule and get 2-3 (depending on conference games) P5 opponents. If/when this happens I could see Pitt/PSU being played annually
Honest Question - if Pitt signed a multi year deal to play WVU and you only had 3 games yearly - would you want one tied up with PSU meaning you would never see a big name team OOC other than when ND came onto the schedule) - essentially it would be cupcake 1, cupcake 2, PSU, WVU?
Pitt and PSU is a lot like UT and aTm, and I am very familiar with that series. The only reason they don't play regularly is animus and hubris.
But let me be clear, since 2011 my personal preference was to never schedule PSU until there was a change in their institutional priorities, which has clearly not occured. I personally prefer making WVU an annual opponent. But the reality is, if they wanted to, PSU could schedule Pitt regularly as other intra-state rivals do, and certainly once every three years which would preserve Penn State's freedom to schedule inter-regional opponents and preserve their only true historical rivalry, which is a clearly continues to be marquee attraction on their schedule even though Pitt has been mediocre at best for 30 years. Once every three would also allow Pitt to rotate between PSU, WVU, and ND (when the ACC dictates the latter). In hoops, traditionally, Pitt should really play Duquesne, WVU, PSU, and every year out-of-conference, and honestly, should get Georgetown and Villanova or Temple on the schedule regularly.
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A neutral location would work if Pitt really wants to play.
Alabama and Auburn have played in Birmingham and Montgomery many times. They found a way to leave Tuscaloosa and Auburn.
Pitt will have to decide if it is worth it to them. If not, it’s on them.
Penn State has played at FedEx, Lincoln Financial, and Met Life. As I recall they played Indiana at FedEx. Sold each place out.
So they have a precedent of leaving State College.
Pitt does not need this game per se but we do need one of WVU, ND or Ped St as a rivalry game every season. We have the backyard brawl back on the schedule in 2 years ( I think it is 2 years) and play ND frequently so no need to play any game at a neutral site.
Pitt is not the “only historic rivalry” for Penn State. For years The Pitt program was awful and the Syracuse game was bitter as could be. Ditto for the Bowden era at WVU. Maryland has some real promise as well.
tOSU and Michigan have their deal, but the animus between their fan bases and PSU gets stronger every year.
This Pitt rivalry is limping along. You hear almost nothing about it on your Pittsburgh radio flag station. It seems it is Steelers all the time on there. It does not seem the Pitt fans care. As for Penn State yesterday the longest thread on their busiest board was about lawn mowers.
Folks it’s time to see other people. This relationship is dead.
That's not really the best example.
They did not play from 1906 to 1948. There was a dispute about stipends and referees. The last time they played in Montgomery was 1903.
Alabama also always treated Birmingham as Home #2, after Tuscaloosa. Into the 90s Alabama played multiple games in Birmingham. It wasn't until 1989 when Auburn finally got a game at Jordan-Hare.
Because Auburn is such a rural town and the stadium was not very big for decades, still in the 40s up until the 60s, AU played a lot of big games at neutral sites. They used to play UGa in Columbus. It wasn't until 1958-60-ish that there was a game played in Athens or Auburn.
They used to play Tennessee and Ga. Tech in Birmingham. The Vols didn't come to Jordan-Hare until late 60s or early 70s.
I vote for Toronto. Reasonable distance for both schools and maybe the Border Patrol watch list can weed out some Sandusky sympathizers
Do you want to play or not? You want the game. Then compromise and play at FedEx. Of course Penn State fans will buy up the tickets, but it’s on you to sell your fan base. You can’t blame another school for your program not traveling well. Have a better program then that your fans find interesting. Otherwise you are looking for a handout.
Without any inside information, I think playing any game (neutral site or home/home) is more on Penn State. They have less OOC games each year and haven’t shown much interest I. The series continuing at all
In no way should anything I said about the Iron Bowl have elicited that response. I already answered with one word whether or not I wanted neutral site games.
I'm not looking for any handout. I've never blamed anyone for Pitt's struggles.
I have always said that Pitt is its own worst enemy.
Home & Home, that's it.
Paterno killed the Syracuse series because Syracuse beat him and he no longer wanted to play a team in the Northeast that had a chance to beat him. He wanted 3 home games for every 1 away game to keep the Syracuse series alive.
Let me educate you:
PSU wants to play 2 cupcake home games every year for revenue purposes. However, trading in 1 of those cupcakes for a home and home with Pitt a bigger money maker for PSU.
- PSU has to pay the cupcake to come in. That's over $1 million. They also have to pay to staff the stadium that day. The value of that ticket as a share of a season ticket package is very small. Just to throw numbers out there, the average value of a PSU/cupcake ticket, lets say is $30. The average value of a Pitt/PSU ticket is $150 lowballing it. Also, Pitt @ PSU sells out. PSU vs Cupcake does not.
Nobody says PSU has to charge the same amount for parking for Cupcake or Pitt. The Pitt game is the higher demand. More people want to tailgate for it. Parking should cost more.
PSU cannot sell enough hot dogs in 2 MAC games to make up for the revenue that 1 Pitt home game would generate.
If I am PSU, this is my schedule:
Year 1 (7 home games)
Michigan
Indiana
Rutgers
BT West
Pitt
Cupcake
6 road games: 5 BT + P5 OOC
Year 2 (7 home games)
Ohio State
Michigan State
Maryland
BT West
BT West
P5 OOC
Cupcake
5 road games: 4 BT + Pitt
You lack understanding. Based on this line of reasoning Penn State could scalp their fans by charging a sliding scale for all their games.
Why don’t they do that?
1. They make a killing with the present structure
2. Their fan base would revolt and they would end up killing the goose and getting no golden eggs.
Penn States coach just suggested it and they have done it before playing schools like Indiana, Maryland, and other schools.
Your AD can call for it and see what happens.
PSU will always play 2 cupcakes based on the way things are now.
This is a choice, not a requirement. USC, Stanford, Michigan, and Notre Dame (dont you think of those sort of as your high quality academic "peers" ) have years with 11 P5/quality independent opponents. Probably others I am forgetting. You chose two cupcakes, you don't have to.
This is a choice, not a requirement. USC, Stanford, Michigan, and Notre Dame (dont you think of those sort of as your high quality academic "peers" ) have years with 11 P5/quality independent opponents. Probably others I am forgetting. You chose two cupcakes, you don't have to.
PSU has claimed 31m from football ticket sales in 2016. That's $4.5M per game. They could play a neutral site game, and sell 35,000 tickets for $126 each and generate the same revenue.
That's pretty funny, a revolt by the psu fan base. If they did not revolt over past issues, they would not revolt over any price increase.
You are right - it is a choice - but with playoff aspirations - it doesn't make sense not to. Bottom line is wins matter more than who you play. Playing 1 p5 OOC helps the SOS conversation - but playing 2 wouldn't help any more - so why not go for the win game.
The system in place helps create this scheduling model. Look at Saban - he says he would prefer to play only P5 (might be lip service) - but there OOC never consists of more than 1 p5 team. You would think that a coach could impact the scheduling and add more games. he/they don't (and they have the extra OOC game to play with) because the system rewards playing cupcakes.
Here is Stanford's schedule this year:
Northwestern
USC
UCF
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
UCLA
Arizona State
Colorado
Washington State
Cal
Notre Dame
No cupcakes. 7 home games, despite traveling to UCF.
Here is USC's:
Fresno State (closest to a "cupcake")
Stanford
BYU
Utah
Washington
Notre Dame
Arizona
Colorado
Oregon
Arizona State
Cal
UCLA
Here is Michigan's:
Middle Tennessee (only "cupcake")
Army
Wisconsin
Rutgers
Iowa
Illinois
Penn State
Notre Dame
Maryland
Michigan State
Indiana
Ohio State
7 home games. Think of Army as Pitt. Heck, they belong in the top 25.
Purdue is another that only has one non P5 opponent, Nevada. Though they already lost to them. Their other games are TCU and Vanderbilt.
Northwestern
USC
UCF
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
UCLA
Arizona State
Colorado
Washington State
Cal
Notre Dame
No cupcakes. 7 home games, despite traveling to UCF.
Here is USC's:
Fresno State (closest to a "cupcake")
Stanford
BYU
Utah
Washington
Notre Dame
Arizona
Colorado
Oregon
Arizona State
Cal
UCLA
Here is Michigan's:
Middle Tennessee (only "cupcake")
Army
Wisconsin
Rutgers
Iowa
Illinois
Penn State
Notre Dame
Maryland
Michigan State
Indiana
Ohio State
7 home games. Think of Army as Pitt. Heck, they belong in the top 25.
Purdue is another that only has one non P5 opponent, Nevada. Though they already lost to them. Their other games are TCU and Vanderbilt.
This is what you do not understand. It does not matter what dollar amount PSU decides to print on your individual game ticket. When you buy season tickets, that number is arbitrary and could not be any more meaningless.
Lets say PSU season tickets are $500. For this year's schedule, the value of those games would be as follows:
Michigan $200
Pitt $175
Rutgers $30
Purdue $30
Indiana $30
Buffalo $20
Idaho $15
That's how much each ticket is worth. The Pitt game has a very high value so when it is added to your season ticket package, the season ticket package should increase by its amount
1 more game with the Peds and then they will disappear from our site.....hip hip hooray
Army was scheduled as a cupcake game for Michigan it's just that Army really improved since the contracts for the game were signed.
So you are saying that Penn State is so honorable that they should keep their season tickets priced exactly the same no matter WHO is actually on that schedule and even if the actual market value of season tickets costs more than the season ticket itself, they love their fans so much, they will gladly accept less money from them? Didnt they create an uproar when they went to donor-based seating a few years ago (which I agreed with BTW)
LMFAO. The 60s. You got me. I'm curious how many Syracuse, WVU and Maryland rivalry t-shirts and buttons (not the free MidState Bank ones) you sold through the years with interesting slogans and vulgarities on them? How many times did you end the season with those teams? Keep telling yourself those things, and like Joe Didn't Know, you'll believe them as well. I'm personally glad the series is ending, but I deal in reality. For Pitt, it just turns to another 100 year old regional rivalry with an institution that conducts itself more respectably.
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Your forgetting the economic impact on State College which might not be their number one concern , but it’s definitely a consideration .
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