Until Hayes actually plays an entire season and actually produces the numbers folks “ project” for him, I will remain a skeptic of his being a legitimate corner infielder.
OT: Pirates Ke'Bryan Hayes a bust?
- Thread starter PittPoker
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Until Hayes actually plays an entire season and actually produces the numbers folks “ project” for him, I will remain a skeptic of his being a legitimate corner infielder.
Well he's certainly got half the job down with his fielding at 3rd base. No one better.
The hitting is below par, but he seems capable of the modest stats that would make his contract worth it. He's signed for a bargain.
I think you can live with the lack of offensive production if you got production from the SS position that we all hoped we’d get from Cruz. And he’s a terrible fielder. Maybe we should have a knee jerk Cruz is a bust thread too. That said there’s not much production anywhere. Yesterdays lineup was a joke. I realize TB’s was too, but the Pirate lineup took things to an entirely different level.
Pirate fans are the most gullible lot. Happens every year. The sport sucks. It’s broken. But at least they figured out a way through playoff expansion to keep 80% of fanbases interested through July.
Guess you feel about baseball like I feel about soccer.?
Mostly it's a sport that most Americans can relate to because most men have played the game and a lot of women have played softball.
Soccer may someday overtake it with all the youth soccer leagues, etc. but for now MLB is a solid #2 behind the NFL.
A lazy evening at the ball yard with hot dogs and a couple beers is still an enjoyable outing.
Soccer has the same exact problems in its biggest leagues as baseball so I’m not here to argue the point. Just ask any soccer fan and they’ll tell you. So you can argue with me or argue the room. But you won’t have anyone to argue with.
I’m a fan of plenty of sports who is thick enough skinned to understand the problems within each one of them and don’t take offense to anything anyone says about them.
Oh and if the pirates were a soccer team, they wouldn’t even be in the top division. They’d have been relegated out of it because of the owner.
Buccos have transformed the baseball experience into the soccer experience….. sit around for hours waiting for an actual run to score. Pirate runs are as scarce as soccer goals.
It’s possible. If they got relegated, the owner would probably sell all their assets and wouldn’t show any ambition to do what it takes to get promoted the next year.They'd be in the Low A level by now if there was relegation
But hey, people would still have the ballpark, beer, hot dogs, peanuts, fireworks and bobble heads.
The Hayes contract pays peanuts. He isn’t the complete package at third base and as a result he isn’t paid like a complete player. Even flawed guys still get $8.75 million a year. Still not a bust.
Yep. He’s not a busy. That’s for sure. The league average for BA is .240. People don’t understand this. It was around this time last year a friend texted me about Hayes and I encouraged him to look at the league numbers. After he did, he was shocked.
Did they mess with his swing? His toe tap is gone and he was tearing up the league last year.
I can't believe I am saying this but I would take tellez off the list. After an abysmal start of the season he has bumped his average from ~.170 to .228 hitting at a .320 clip the last 15 games. His WAR has actually improved to -0.2 as well meaning he is an average first basemen in MLB
But zero power. They don't need a 275 pound singles hitter who's best work is milking a walk.
They have enough of those at other positions.
The BA isn’t the huge issue. The .589 OPS though is absolutely awful no matter how you cut it.
Yeah, it's not the batting average. It's that the power, even the gap power, has almost completely disappeared. Last year he hit 31 doubles in 494 at bats. This year he has 7 in 212. If he keeps hitting them at his current pace, when he gets to 494 at bats he will have 16 doubles. Basically half.
And actually the home runs are basically cut in half as well. He had 15 last year. If he gets the same number of at bats as last year he's currently on pace for 7.
And keep in mind, the morons in charge fired the guy who helped him last year because he went behind the back of the joke of a hitting coach that they employ at the major league level.
Huh? He is hitting like .225, hasn't had a hit forever, no power, doesn't drive in runs. Contract was a total failure and he is a bust.
Anyone who watched his 3 at-bats last night as well as him forgetting how many outs there were in the field - and still think this guy is not a bust is in dreamland.
Pirates literally at this point could play Triolo every game, he's hitting. 205 but Hayes is only hitting .220 and falling. And that way the Pirates would save themselves about $8 million a year.
Obviously I don't want awful Triolo playing 3rd base either but it's time to try and find a team to trade Hayes to after the season. He can't hit and whether that's because of his back issues or something else - he is hurting this team more than helping. Trade his ass.
Pirates literally at this point could play Triolo every game, he's hitting. 205 but Hayes is only hitting .220 and falling. And that way the Pirates would save themselves about $8 million a year.
Obviously I don't want awful Triolo playing 3rd base either but it's time to try and find a team to trade Hayes to after the season. He can't hit and whether that's because of his back issues or something else - he is hurting this team more than helping. Trade his ass.
Last season he started hitting and they all came into this thread to tell me how wrong I was, how Hayes is worth that contract and not a bust.
He is now hitting around .220 with a .580 OPS. He hasn't had an extra base hit off a righty in nearly 3 months. He is beyond awful and the Pirates are stuck will a black hole in the lineup. He is now the worst hitting 3B in mlb baseball.
And funny, all the Hayes defenders are now nowhere to be found. Can't defend the indefensible I guess.
I thought he figured it out. The Hayes of the second half last year was one of the most valuable players in the league.
He has completely reverted to the same old crap
A WAR of 0 doesn't mean average. A WAR of 0 means that you are producing about as well as a random AAA guy would. An average major leaguer should produce about 2 WAR given a starting workload.
That isn't quite right either. Your random, average AAA guy would produce worse than 0 WAR. Because half (used to make a point, not literally) of the guys playing in AAA aren't really prospects and and wouldn't rise to the level of being "replacement ready" in MLB.
To put it into Pirate terms, someone like Alika Williams is a replacement level player. And he is better than an average AAA player.
Only 85 players have a WAR of 2.0 or higher. Considering there are 240 starting position players (30 teams*8) this is an over inflated number. Looking at the current WAR list players with a 1.0 WAR are ranked 237-264.
Well Rowdy's average is up to 0.244 and a WAR of 0.3
Well Rowdy's average is up to 0.244 and a WAR of 0.3
Because we were all right last year.
But shockingly, some of us can allow our opinions to change based on what's happening. Not a knee jerk reaction that we cling to no matter what.
He's still not a bust though.
Yes he is a bust. I don’t know how you can look at that hitting stat line and say anything else.
The only reason people give him a pass is because he got that contract. If he made league minimum everyone would want him dfa’ed. See Jared Triolo who is having almost the exact same year but the narrative is completely different around him
It was fair to point out his stellar performance last year, therefore it’s also fair that you point this out.
However if this was the Hayes of his entire career, he’d be a bust. But they’ve already got enough productive play out of him that if he never does another thing, he still won’t be a bust.
That's true, the narrative around Triolo is completely different. Most people seem to be pretty happy with him. Which makes no sense at all, but it's where we are.
Dude is an absolute stinker. Last night hits a line drive right at someone, of course the other way. Can’t pull the ball ever. Then of course hits into a dp. Yeah Hoskins made a nice play but Hayes did not hit it hard and again hit it the other way.
I want this dude gone. I wish he could be dfa’ed. He is so awful.
I want this dude gone. I wish he could be dfa’ed. He is so awful.
How much return would a bust on an “incredibly large” salary bring?
If they were to trade him now it would be a perfect example of what "selling low" means.
They aren't going to do that, but someone asked a national writer (I forget who off the top of my head) in a chat/mailbag thing a week or two ago if he thought the Pirates could get anything for Hayes right now, and his response was that if the Pirates let it be known that he was on the market every contending team that doesn't have a good third baseman would try to get him. He guessed that at least a dozen teams would be interested.
Are you saying that real baseball people recognize that Hayes is a pretty solid major leaguer and not a bust? No way!!!
He can't hit. Again he's been a terrible hitter most of his major league career. You can make jokes but the guy hits grounder after grounder, no launch angle at all on the majority of him making contact. A corner infielder who has what, 3 HR's all season so far?
So yeah he is a bust because if the Pirates didn't give Hayes that contract you'd definitely be seeing Triolo at 3rd a lot more. And he's as bad as Hayes. They both can't hit.
The fact that you so fervently believe that to be true doesn't mean you are right, it just shows how off your rocker you are about Hayes.
Except on the very first page of this thread we used actual numbers to show that, over the last three years, Hayes has generally been better than league average at bat.
He is by no sane definition, a bust.
