Pitt Master Plan

[pittchagg]

I wouldn't necessarily say it's all being done at once. The Pete and Pederson Sports complex were much needed additions, as well as the upgrades over at UPMC complex.

That said, these others upgrades are long past due, and even the above mentioned upgrades need upgraded.

But it takes money and we need donors to do it. I think this admin has the ear of the donors.

No arguments there. There are definitely some areas of the overall plan that need to happen before others. The expanded office/locker room facility and the Human Performance Complex need to both happen before anything is done with Fitzgerald; and the student rec center needs to be finished and the expansion of Posvar needs to happen before anything is done with the sports dome or Trees.

Those are just examples, but they clearly appear to be aggressively pursuing the initial linchpins that will open up the path for the rest of the plan. I believe I saw somewhere that the HPC and the student rec center will each cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M, and each have a projected opening date of 2022 or so. They’re clearly moving towards it now, whether the donor money is in place or not - a stark departure from the way the AD formerly operated. My impression is that Gallagher is a much stronger believer in the benefits of an overall strong athletic department than his predecessors were, and is willing to support it.

 

[McKee Place]

Collegiate soccer is not, will not be any factor as a revenue driving sport. I don't even know who the soccer powers are in the NCAA anymore, I know Indiana always was and some ACC schools, Notre Dame, I imagine a Stanford and a UCLA, but even in those soccer friendly communities, I can't imagine the average attendance more than 2K. What does the NCAA championships play to? I guess again, another thread where SMF can participate.

Yeah. It won't happen in my lifetime. But i see it happening, decades out. The barbarians, or angels, however one looks at mass immigration, will eventually be unfettered, conservatives are not going to stave it off...progressives will win and do a total 180 from trump on it, out of spite if nothing else (as he did with Obama initiatives). Plus, parents aare increasingly scared of football and making kids play soccer so more of it is taking hold. I don't like it, but it's the world's sport. It's going to take over.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Souf, believe me, I don't want to side with Buffet, and I am not totally but there is a point he is making. We all know that student debt is a problem, and something needs to be done. We have heard congress grandstand and of course blame this on corporate America (banks and loan institutions) and want Joe taxpayer to foot the bill for relief. Yet these schools sit on these HUGE warchests, and they have continued almost unchecked rising costs. Something is not morally right about this. But that is for another thread and another forum...which will devolve into its typical yelling tic tac toe posts of all the typicals lining up accordingly.

Nobody is compelled to attend school and take out loans-
I’ll save my outrage for exploding costs for insulin and epipens-
Think that people can’t actually make a choice about.

The war chest is earmarked to pay for specific programs so they don’t have to use general fund (tuition) for daily operation budgets.

So he has no point .

 

[CaptainMurphy]

That is a lot of shuffling, but should leave every program with improved facilities once completed. It's great that they will finally have the full size outdoor track facility, which has been missing from campus for 20 years. Now all they need is to finally build that band facility that's been fully funded and promised for the past 20 years.

Agree on the band facilities. Have they done anything with their cavern since moving there 20 years ago? Saying that really makes me feel old as I was a senior then and now in my 40s.

 

[ThePanthers]

My guess... only thing that happens in our lifetime is the student rec center and the “upgrade” to the Peterson Sports Complex. Pitt officials remain perplexed on how Peters Township have better facilities.

This is a 20-30 year vision and has been since day 1.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Do you understand some endowments are earmarked for scholarships to actually reduce tuition?

I don't know the exact number, but I wonder if he realizes that Pitt has over 150 endowed athletic scholarships? Probably not.

Which, incidentally, is not nearly as many as they need or should have.

 

[Panthers2015]

Yeah, but I also think there will better locations for a stadium down the road. Maybe they realize this and have something in mind, since any stadium is probably 20+ years away at best.

When does the lease run out

 

[McKee Place]

Trying to negotiate the labyrinth of college costs and financing is shameful. It makes the process of buying a car seem simple and clean in comparison. You sit there and they conjure some seemingly arbitrary line items of this and that and the other. Seemingly no reason for many (though there are definitely reasons, many related to the gender, nationality or other niche a candidate might fill, not to do with actual merit).

Two kids are not just two kids. Of course, they start with differences in grades and scores and such. But that isn't where it ends and in fact may not be weighted highly at all for preferred demographics when a school puts together its "package" for someone. A girl may automatically get X more than boy, generally, regardless of merit. But a minority boy (but probably not an Asian) who says he will do pre-med might get Y more than the girl.

I am not disputing any of this by the way, they have their reasons and they probably can expound tearfully that they're trying to right generations of wrongs and diversity is gdo and death to Trump blah blah blah. But it's wryly amusing because universities are all about the "kumbaya, we're all the same" theme.

It all gets cooked up in some esoteric, utterly unstandard format that makes things wildly difficult to compare for parents, but always including that deceptive line item showing as a "credit" to your account but is anything but that... it's a loan.

This is not the only reason, but a big reason so many kids (and their parents) walk out with debt.

 

[bwh05]

No arguments there. There are definitely some areas of the overall plan that need to happen before others. The expanded office/locker room facility and the Human Performance Complex need to both happen before anything is done with Fitzgerald; and the student rec center needs to be finished and the expansion of Posvar needs to happen before anything is done with the sports dome or Trees.

Those are just examples, but they clearly appear to be aggressively pursuing the initial linchpins that will open up the path for the rest of the plan. I believe I saw somewhere that the HPC and the student rec center will each cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100M, and each have a projected opening date of 2022 or so. They’re clearly moving towards it now, whether the donor money is in place or not - a stark departure from the way the AD formerly operated. My impression is that Gallagher is a much stronger believer in the benefits of an overall strong athletic department than his predecessors were, and is willing to support it.

This is true about Gallagher, but he’s not going to give athletics $100 million. We’re going to have to land some big donors and thus far that hasn’t happened. However, there’s still time and hope springs eternal!

 

[McKee Place]

This is true about Gallagher, but he’s not going to give athletics $100 million. We’re going to have to land some big donors and thus far that hasn’t happened. However, there’s still time and hope springs eternal!

It's a difficult dilemma. Those who might donate this kind of big coin are type A folks who favor the two mainstream sports. T Boone types who will expect to go balls in for winning in those sports
But Pitt disdains that. Pitt wants a tycoon who will happily give serious money for the good of lacrosse or volleyball. You simply aren't going to find many of those. Maybe in future gens but not now.

 

[bwh05]

It's a difficult dilemma. Those who might donate this kind of big coin are type A folks who favor the two mainstream sports. T Boone types who will expect to go balls in for winning in those sports
But Pitt disdains that. Pitt wants a tycoon who will happily give serious money for the good of lacrosse or volleyball. You simply aren't going to find many of those. Maybe in future gens but not now.

We definitely don’t win enough to make fundraising easy.

 

[Panthers2015]

It's a difficult dilemma. Those who might donate this kind of big coin are type A folks who favor the two mainstream sports. T Boone types who will expect to go balls in for winning in those sports
But Pitt disdains that. Pitt wants a tycoon who will happily give serious money for the good of lacrosse or volleyball. You simply aren't going to find many of those. Maybe in future gens but not now.

If you were in front of one of those big coin people, how would u sell a pitch to donate for a OCS? Or Victor Heights

 

[BuffetParrothead]

If you were in front of one of those big coin people, how would u sell a pitch to donate for a OCS? Or Victor Heights

This would be PITT's only option at this time since they've shown no commitment or competency for developing and managing an elite football or basketball program.

Or any elite sports program at this time. Some non revenue PITT sports are making progress.

Commitment and compentency will stop a big donor in his or her tracks from giving PITT big money for football.

Build a new resume and PITT might have a shot down the road to pull in a big donor. AD Lyke is a good start.

PITT's management of major revenue sports is a classic process out of control with some improvement.

Get an out of control process under control, and build a new resume!

Give us $ 200 mill so we can go down the same road as before, waste your money and screw up the football program.
Hey wait big donor look what we did to the PITT basketball program.
We blew that out of the water too??
So here's where you send the check? Wait, wait, where are you going?

A big donor will want a commitment from the University that they're ready to focus on winning, and PITT has the competencies to run, and develop winning revenue and other sports programs.
​

 

[NTOP]

Then no school with less attendance than Pitt should ever build a new stadium.

False narrative. Plenty of schools have open, flat spaces that they own. I think Kent State has a lot of open space, e.g.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Trying to negotiate the labyrinth of college costs and financing is shameful. It makes the process of buying a car seem simple and clean in comparison. You sit there and they conjure some seemingly arbitrary line items of this and that and the other. Seemingly no reason for many (though there are definitely reasons, many related to the gender, nationality or other niche a candidate might fill, not to do with actual merit).

Two kids are not just two kids. Of course, they start with differences in grades and scores and such. But that isn't where it ends and in fact may not be weighted highly at all for preferred demographics when a school puts together its "package" for someone. A girl may automatically get X more than boy, generally, regardless of merit. But a minority boy (but probably not an Asian) who says he will do pre-med might get Y more than the girl.

I am not disputing any of this by the way, they have their reasons and they probably can expound tearfully that they're trying to right generations of wrongs and diversity is gdo and death to Trump blah blah blah. But it's wryly amusing because universities are all about the "kumbaya, we're all the same" theme.

It all gets cooked up in some esoteric, utterly unstandard format that makes things wildly difficult to compare for parents, but always including that deceptive line item showing as a "credit" to your account but is anything but that... it's a loan.

This is not the only reason, but a big reason so many kids (and their parents) walk out with debt.

Again

College tells you what it costs.
The government tells you how much aid and loans you owe.
It’s the absolute most straight forward transaction there is.

Save your angst for negotiating health care and insurance for diagnostic tests.

Something- again- which people have little choice over.

 

[McKee Place]

If you were in front of one of those big coin people, how would u sell a pitch to donate for a OCS? Or Victor Heights

I don't believe either is particularly necessary so I wouldn't pitch either.

 

[infinitehighway42]

Agree on the band facilities. Have they done anything with their cavern since moving there 20 years ago? Saying that really makes me feel old as I was a senior then and now in my 40s.

They're still in the basement of Trees, and there hasn't been any change in those facilities since moving in. They've actually gotten worse as the band is now 50+ members larger and they have no space to expand into.

 

[Palm Beach Panther]

I'm glad the learning and research development building is coming down. What an eyesore! I agree that they should not demolish the fronts of the early historic buildings especially the Richardsonian Music building. How about some more collegiate gothic?!

 

[BurghGuy68]

Yeah, but I also think there will better locations for a stadium down the road. Maybe they realize this and have something in mind, since any stadium is probably 20+ years away at best.

When does the lease run out

2030...so a feasibility study would be done around 2025, since the Steelers likely will move to the burbs

 

[Panthers2015]

2030...so a feasibility study would be done around 2025, since the Steelers likely will move to the burbs

There hasn’t been one done already?

 

[BurghGuy68]

2030...so a feasibility study would be done around 2025, since the Steelers likely will move to the burbs

There hasn’t been one done already?

No but there is a plan for one in 6 years

 

[HailtoPitt]

False narrative. Plenty of schools have open, flat spaces that they own. I think Kent State has a lot of open space, e.g.

His point is that Pitt should not build a new stadium whether they have the land or not. In fact, I think he believes that no team should ever build a new stadium.

 

[Panthers2015]

No but there is a plan for one in 6 years

Where did you see/hear that? Good source?

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

...need to both happen before anything is done with Fitzgerald;

No disrespect intended but really?? I remember walking into Fitzgerald when I was a kid when my brother was being recruited thinking “this place is a dump”. That was 40+ years ago and underlies the incompetence.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I'm glad the learning and research development building is coming down. What an eyesore! I agree that they should not demolish the fronts of the early historic buildings especially the Richardsonian Music building. How about some more collegiate gothic?!

I always thought the LRDC was a pretty cool looking building.

 

[pittdan77]

2030...so a feasibility study would be done around 2025, since the Steelers likely will move to the burbs

There is zero evidence anywhere that even suggests it's possible that the Steelers would move off the North Shore.

 

[HOF Coach]

There is zero evidence anywhere that even suggests it's possible that the Steelers would move off the North Shore.

Why would they?

 

[PITTLAW]

People who present questions rather than address problems are part of the problem! That's you!

Or you work for local, state, or federal government. Or you're an educator.
​

You have a 0.0 Solution Score!

Here's how we fund the place!

University of Pittsburgh Endowment Fund
Posted by Richard C. WilsonFundsNo Comments
Name: University of Pittsburgh Office of Finance

Assets Under Management: $3 Billion (Source: University of Pittsburgh 2014)

Annual Report: University of Pittsburgh’s Endowment Investments

What are Universities doing with this money.

Just the interest ( 5% * 3 billion = 150,000,000) on $ 3 bill could help fund a stadium, begin to reduce tuition, maybe build a track or tennis courts ( the ship sailed).
Plus some contributions from you cheap, whiners from Pittsburgh.

Top Ten Endowments:
( this is crazy? Where is this money going?)

1. Harvard $ 36bill
2. Yale $ 27 bill
3.U Texas system $ 26 bill
4. Stanford $ 25 bill
5. Princeton $ 4 bill
6.MIT $ 15 bill
7.U Penn $ 12 bill
8.Tex A&M $ 11 bill
9. Michigan $ 9 bill
!0. Northwestern $ 10 bill


?PITT $ 3 bill ( we lag in this area too)

I would like to know what the plans are for these huge endowment funds that keep growing if only for the accrued interest!

Are you serious? Do you not understand that endowment money is not free for the taking. The people that gave that money to Pitt gave it with strings. The strings are what the people that gave the money to Pitt wanted Pitt to do with it. Things like scholarships, buildings, research, endowed chairs, etc. are what endowments pay for. It would be illegal and irresponsible for Pitt to use its endowment for anything other than the purposes provided for in the agreements with those individuals that provided the money. Sheesh! Hail to Pitt!

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Are you serious? Do you not understand that endowment money is not free for the taking.

As I said, the only people pressuring Pitt over their endowment are people like him, who do not understand endowments.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I always thought the LRDC was a pretty cool looking building.

It's actually the only modern building of any real architectural note on Pitt's campus, which isn't saying a lot.

But it isn't as important as the Gardner Steel Conference Center (former Central Turnverein) and O'Hara St Student Center (former Concordia Club) which are US Historic District contributing properties and on the chopping block. The former is also a PHLF landmark. Their loss will destroy the historic feel of the O'Hara Street corridor.

No doubt, Pitt needs more space and these low buildings are an inefficient use of those plots, but no other university would even consider removing those two buildings without at least preserving the facade of the former and maintaining the latter largely in its current state or incorporating it largely intact into a new facility, as has been done at nearly any other university I've visited with similar historic buildings. Heck, Pitt just undertook a historic renovation of the Concordia Club not even a decade ago. What Pitt is proposing is to take the south side of O'Hara and replace everything remotely architecturally interesting and special on that part of campus with what is essentially a giant office building with no deference to historic composition or campus environment. Not that I'd argue Pitt shouldn't build there, but at present it is an aesthetically and historically horrific plan to just demo those buildings without preservation and/or incorporation into the new facilities. Someone relatively plugged into the administration told me, and I'm not joking, the facilities was being led by someone with a Nitter background and no real depth of Pitt connection, and I have no idea if that is true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me considering the complete lack of forethought about those buildings and how the fit into the overall Pitt campus.

https://www.utimes.pitt.edu/archives/?p=41485

The architectural details of the historic Gardner Steel Center are unique, and noteworthy for their period, and should be preserved as part of the facade of any new complex.

Now look at the O'Hara St Center, particularly the interiors with its dark oak paneling and ball room. Pitt did a fabulous job restoring, preserving, and re-purposing this building just ten years ago. It would be one of the nicer buildings on many other university campuses. It is just insane to rip this down, not to mention an affront to local Jewish heritage.

Why they wouldn't at least incorporate this into a new facility, like many other universities do with their older buildings, can only be speculated.

 

[BurghGuy68]

There is zero evidence anywhere that even suggests it's possible that the Steelers would move off the North Shore.

Why would they?

You haven't followed other NFL teams have you

 

[HOF Coach]

You haven't followed other NFL teams have you

Not really up on what is happening in most NFL cities. I was just looking at the Steelers' current situation.

I do seem to remember that the Rooney family was highly involved in the development of the North Shore, including having mass transportation available (the T). With the many hotels, restaurants and bars, plus the casino and the amphitheater, all within walking distance of Heinz Field, plus all that are close by in the downtown and strip district sections, I fail to see how it would make sense to move to the suburbs.

 

[Ghost of Pitt Stadium]

Are you serious? Do you not understand that endowment money is not free for the taking. The people that gave that money to Pitt gave it with strings. The strings are what the people that gave the money to Pitt wanted Pitt to do with it. Things like scholarships, buildings, research, endowed chairs, etc. are what endowments pay for. It would be illegal and irresponsible for Pitt to use its endowment for anything other than the purposes provided for in the agreements with those individuals that provided the money. Sheesh! Hail to Pitt!

And many give without strings. Pitt pays out 4.5% roughly each year. With a return of 15% and inflation running at 2%, it sure could spend more. But I guess more fees for the management group running the portfolio instead.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

And many give without strings. Pitt pays out 4.5% roughly each year. With a return of 15% and inflation running at 2%, it sure could spend more. But I guess more fees for the management group running the portfolio instead.

Or actually reinvest back to grow the endowment
Which is what others do as well.

Compounding interest is the name of the game.

Do you pull from your 403b annually to spend on things ?

 

[Ghost of Pitt Stadium]

Or actually reinvest back to grow the endowment
Which is what others do as well.

Compounding interest is the name of the game.

Do you pull from your 403b annually to spend on things ?

Pitt is not an individual that retires come 65 and begins spending.
My point is that the spread between earnings and inflation is far greater than the 4.5% Pitt spends. Todays dollars cost less than tomorrows. So if Pitt can spend more, they should. Some cushion generally exists for re-investment. Pitt determines the degree. And any cushion lost can always be made up via future donations. What good does it serve if a university just sits on its endowment. The only people getting rich are the management firm.

 

[CrazyPaco]

And many give without strings. Pitt pays out 4.5% roughly each year. With a return of 15% and inflation running at 2%, it sure could spend more. But I guess more fees for the management group running the portfolio instead.

Many donors do give without strings, but not to the endowment pool. Donors giving to an endowed fund, by definition of the particular fund's purpose, are giving for a particular, legally-bound purpose. They are essentially buying shares of the investment pool for their particular purpose-designated fund, like buying into a mutual fund with the beneficiary of the investment results being your fund instead of yourself. It is illegal to use the money generated by donor-restricted endowment funds for purposes other than what the donor specified. There is no pool just to build the general endowment. Go to giveto.pitt.edu and see if there is a generic endowment fund to donate into. There isn't. Unrestricted giving goes into annual funds that is spent in full each fiscal cycle.

Pennsylvania law requires charities to spend 2 to 7% of the endowment fund value. Pitt legally can't spend less than 2% or more than 7%. Pitt's endowment spending policy actually provides for an annual distribution of the greater of 4.25 percent of the consolidated endowment fund’s three-year average fair market value or a “floor” of the prior year’s distribution, provided that the distribution is not less than 2 percent or more than 7 percent of the trailing three-year average. Typically, this is around 4.5% a year, which is a very typical endowment distribution for institutions and fiscally sound. Not too conservative, not too liberal, and ensures predictability for the annual budgets to avoid market fluctuations in returns while protecting the value of the endowment against inflation. What this resulted in, for FY18, was $136.1 million in endowment distributions. This only offset 6.3% of the total $2.176 billion university budget that year, a budget where 64% of the revenue comes from tuition and research grants at an institution constantly blasted for having too high of tuition price. There is an unrestricted portion of the endowment pool, but naturally, a priority of unrestricted distributions is going to go towards financial aid. Also remember this budget, and the endowment, funds all four campuses and all centers and schools. A large portion of the endowment is designated for the medical school. It really isn't that big of an endowment when you consider the scope of the university and the endowment dollars per students and faculty. And unfortunately, the portion of the endowment that has been given for athletics is one of the smallest in the ACC. Increasing the athletic endowment absolutely needs to be a priority to protect Pitt athletics into the future. It is the only way to offset a lack of gate revenue compared to aspirational peers. I've personally always thought it should be the priority.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Are you serious? Do you not understand that endowment money is not free for the taking. The people that gave that money to Pitt gave it with strings. The strings are what the people that gave the money to Pitt wanted Pitt to do with it. Things like scholarships, buildings, research, endowed chairs, etc. are what endowments pay for. It would be illegal and irresponsible for Pitt to use its endowment for anything other than the purposes provided for in the agreements with those individuals that provided the money. Sheesh! Hail to Pitt!

I have not interest in entering a debate on using endowment funds for a stadium, but your statement is incorrect.

A majority of Pitt's endowment is unrestricted.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I have not interest in entering a debate on using endowment funds for a stadium, but your statement is incorrect.

A majority of Pitt's endowment is unrestricted.

~62% is unrestricted. That equates to about $84 million in endowment distributions in FY18. But that's not unaccounted for money. It's factored into every annual budget like all operational revenue is. It comes back to the same question; if you take a dollar for athletics, that dollar has to come from someone else's budget. Do you take it from student financial aid? Do you take it from institutional research funding? Do you take it from instructional budgets? Do you take it from facilities operations? It has to come from somewhere. The university already subsidizes athletics to one of the highest total amounts in all of the Power 5, despite having one of the smallest athletic departments.

The bottom line is that new money can not come by spending more of the endowment. That is not how the endowment works nor how a university budget is put together. Even in the hypothetical of deciding spend more on athletics, it wouldn't come from tapping the existing endowment more.

 

[pittdan77]

You haven't followed other NFL teams have you

Like Atlanta? Minneapolis? Both in the city. Even Las Vegas is building their stadium right at the end of the strip. In the city. Pretty much everyone has decided that the 49'ers blew it with their stadium being in Santa Clara. The Rooney's won't make that mistake.

 

[RaleighPittFan]

Like Atlanta? Minneapolis? Both in the city. Even Las Vegas is building their stadium right at the end of the strip. In the city. Pretty much everyone has decided that the 49'ers blew it with their stadium being in Santa Clara. The Rooney's won't make that mistake.

But, what if that "city" is LA?