SEC considering their own CFP

[Pitt79]

It's so badly broken that I'd enjoy burning it to the ground.

I don't watch football because of the teams (except Pitt). I watch it because it's football. I'd watch a Patriot League game before I'd watch an SEC game with paid players and all of the BS surrounding it. I'm toying with the idea of getting into hs football and getting my fix that way and ignoring college football (I mostly do anyway), but enjoy following my alma mater.

There's a nobility to amateur athletics; pay for play is prostitution-like.

I do the same thing already, I watch PITT only, if I want to see more, I watch service academies, G5 and very often FCS and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER watch an SEC or B1G game. If this super pro league happens, I'll watch zero of it, unless Pitt is in it, in that case I'll watch ONLY their games, if they're not in it, hopefully the amateur low level college football is still on TV, I'll watch that exclusively.

 

[Pitt79]

I already did. It would have no affiliation or a loose affilation with the university, whatever the lawyers say must be done to get out of Title IX.

I dont see how a pro team called "Pitt Panthers Football Club" (buy the Pitt Panthers name off of the university) would have to pay for the women's cross country team to go to school

Let me ask you this, do the players still need to be students at the university under your scenario?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That scenario makes it pure minor league football and it wouldn't succeed any more than past minor league football or minor league baseball or minor league basketball has on TV. Why would I want to watch a minor league team called the Pittsburgh Panthers which didn't have any affiliation with Pitt nor any Pitt students on the team? I would have zero interest. Nor would TV companies over the long term.

Are you kidding me? You think less people are going to watch the Pittsburgh Panthers vs West Virginia Mountaineers just because the players aren't taking classes at those schools? Do you think Alabama/Auburn attendance and ratings would be worse than the Birmingham USFL team?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Let me ask you this, do the players still need to be students at the university under your scenario?

In my scenario, ideally yes. Loose affilation. Have to take 3 credits. But if that makes the Pittsburgh Panthers pro football team have to fund women's swimming then I wouldn't require they take classes. Whatever it takes to get out of Title IX.

Also, this would be an Under 25 league. Players are eligible until the calendar year in which they turn 25 years old. And there's no such thing as "declaring for the draft." The NFL can draft you whenever they want. If they dont, or you dont like where you are picked, you can remain in the pro college league until age 25

 

[Pitt79]

Are you kidding me? You think less people are going to watch the Pittsburgh Panthers vs West Virginia Mountaineers just because the players aren't taking classes at those schools? Do you think Alabama/Auburn attendance and ratings would be worse than the Birmingham USFL team?

I'm not sure I'm watching, I might be done with this BS, if it's just a minor league pro team that paid Pitt to use their name, F 'em.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

A lot of you don’t seem to get that Pitt doesn’t WANT to avoid Title IX or the non revenue sports. Pitt is all in, way in, on those things. In fact Pitt only grudgingly tolerates the men’s revenue sports (as part of a revenue generating power conference) precisely BECAUSE it provides the funds for these other sports, and not just to have them, but to have them at a high level. Pitt doesn’t want its ladies and men’s non revenue sports scraping the bottom of the barrels.

Pitt can easily withdraw from football due to the stadium situation, actually much easier than most. And we normally might happily do so, if this worst case scenario described in the OP comes about.

But it will create a real dilemma for Pitt. I think you’ll see some real anxiety out of Pitt if the current golden goose can’t be maintained, which is paying for everything the school actually cares about now.

I really don’t know what Pitt can do. It’s a really tough situation.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

If they did they would never see a game with a P5 team outside of the SEC as the rest would most definitely boycott them. Dumb move and agree that they are just on a fishing trip!

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

That scenario makes it pure minor league football and it wouldn't succeed any more than past minor league football or minor league baseball or minor league basketball has on TV. Why would I want to watch a minor league team called the Pittsburgh Panthers which didn't have any affiliation with Pitt nor any Pitt students on the team? I would have zero interest. Nor would TV companies over the long term.

in all fairness, i was very excited for this exact scenario, but they were called the maulers. i gave it til the first quarter of the second game before turning it off..

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I'm not sure I'm watching, I might be done with this BS, if it's just a minor league pro team that paid Pitt to use their name, F 'em.

You will watch Pitt football's D3 team play CMU but arent watching Pitt's pro team play WVU? Because they are paid and don't take classes? You prefer 18-22 years not paid and taking sham classes?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

That scenario makes it pure minor league football and it wouldn't succeed any more than past minor league football or minor league baseball or minor league basketball has on TV. Why would I want to watch a minor league team called the Pittsburgh Panthers which didn't have any affiliation with Pitt nor any Pitt students on the team? I would have zero interest. Nor would TV companies over the long term.

That's it. It is the brand loyalty and recognition that separates college football from any of these other "pro" start up leagues that fail.

 

[pittdan77]

It would have no affiliation or a loose affilation with the university, whatever the lawyers say must be done to get out of Title IX.

So you're advocating for the University of Pittsburgh to create a semi-pro football franchise (assuming you can wipe your backside with Title IX -- you can't). To what purpose?

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

You will watch Pitt football's D3 team play CMU but arent watching Pitt's pro team play WVU? Because they are paid and don't take classes? You prefer 18-22 years not paid and taking sham classes?

pitt's pro team lol. because the university of pittsburgh wants to associate their name and brand with a minor league football team..

dude, relax with your doomsday scenario, it's getting a tad ridiculous.

 

[redbyrds]

Never gonna happen.SEC just flexingb their football muscles for leverage and $$.

If they break away, other conferences could stay together as NCAA and SEC would be left out of March Madness,Womens Madness,baseball,softball, volleyball, all the rest. Alot of greed out there,but they need each other.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

So you're advocating for the University of Pittsburgh to create a semi-pro football franchise (assuming you can wipe your backside with Title IX -- you can't). To what purpose?

The only purpose I can see is precisely to continue helping to fund Title IX and the other non revenue sports. As I mentioned Pitt is all in on those. Problem is that I can’t see a minor league setup like this generating a fraction of what Pitt gets from being in the ACC for football and basketball now.

But if this special setup can be limited to football, and if an ACC (and other conferences) and basketball can still be there, albeit somewhat less money, but still enough to let Pitt continue its non revenue sports playing at this high level, Pitt would be ok. However the problems College Football is facing looks to be facing college basketball as well. But maybe salaries are acceptable/manageable for basketball

 

[Ski11585]

Semantics. Call them the Pittsburgh Panthers and have the University of Pittsburgh drop the name "Panthers" from their sports teams. For teams like Duke, just call them "Blue Devils" and then have Duke drop Blue Devils from their sports teams. Everyone would still call the football team Duke, who cares.

Guys, this would be a pro league. It would be very very easy to get out of Title IX. BTW, this should be done for men's basketball too. The Olympic sports can be D3ish. Pitt volleyball can play CMU, Point Park, LaRoche, Chatham, Carlow, PSU, and WVU in their $300 million arena.

So who is paying these pro minor league players? Because if it's the University of Pittsburgh, I can't see how they'd escape Title IX.

You will watch Pitt football's D3 team play CMU but arent watching Pitt's pro team play WVU? Because they are paid and don't take classes? You prefer 18-22 years not paid and taking sham classes?

Nope. I'm not watching a minor league football team from Pittsburgh play WVU. I don't like watching bad sports (hence my preference for NBA over college hoops). I already watch Pittsburgh's pro team. The only reason I watch college sports is because of the direct connection to the University. If you strip that away, I'm just watching shitty football.

 

[NCPitt]

Are you kidding me? You think less people are going to watch the Pittsburgh Panthers vs West Virginia Mountaineers just because the players aren't taking classes at those schools? Do you think Alabama/Auburn attendance and ratings would be worse than the Birmingham USFL team?

Yes, I think that. Pittsburgh has minor league football already and it earns nothing. Just because it steals a college name doesn't change it from being minor league football. Maybe WV fans will watch it because they're that dumb, but Pitt fans won't give it a seconds thought. Nor will TV execs.

 

[anon_d97v9o3a8b6xr]

I seriously think there are some posters who just start these kind of threads because they are either really drunk, high off their asses, or have had one too many brain injuries.

 

[NCPitt]

in all fairness, i was very excited for this exact scenario, but they were called the maulers. i gave it til the first quarter of the second game before turning it off..

That will be exactly the scenario for the non-Pitt Pittsburgh Panthers. SMF is living in some fantasy world.

 

[NCPitt]

You will watch Pitt football's D3 team play CMU but arent watching Pitt's pro team play WVU? Because they are paid and don't take classes? You prefer 18-22 years not paid and taking sham classes?

Pitt's pro team is called the Steelers.

 

[Pitt79]

You will watch Pitt football's D3 team play CMU but arent watching Pitt's pro team play WVU? Because they are paid and don't take classes? You prefer 18-22 years not paid and taking sham classes?

Absolutely, I'd rather see a D3 team of non athletic scholarship Pitt STUDENTS, who mainly came to school for education, play a similar CMU team than a pro team that paid the university to use the name Pitt Panthers play a pro team from WV in a minor league pro football league.

 

[Pitt79]

In my scenario, ideally yes. Loose affilation. Have to take 3 credits. But if that makes the Pittsburgh Panthers pro football team have to fund women's swimming then I wouldn't require they take classes. Whatever it takes to get out of Title IX.

Also, this would be an Under 25 league. Players are eligible until the calendar year in which they turn 25 years old. And there's no such thing as "declaring for the draft." The NFL can draft you whenever they want. If they dont, or you dont like where you are picked, you can remain in the pro college league until age 25

Couple questions? Loose affiliation?

Who pays the players? Who pays the coaches? Who reaps the profit that this pro team might make?

One of the big features of P5 football is that it funds all the other sports. If your scenario doesn't do that, what's in it for the University, who's name someone -not clear who- is profiting from?

Get OUT of Title IX? Title IX is why Pitt wants into a P5 conference, to get money to fund Title IX.

 

[Pitt79]

That's it. It is the brand loyalty and recognition that separates college football from any of these other "pro" start up leagues that fail.

People don't watch college football so much for football, mostly it's an emotional connection with their alma mater or their region.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

So who is paying these pro minor league players? Because if it's the University of Pittsburgh, I can't see how they'd escape Title IX.

Nope. I'm not watching a minor league football team from Pittsburgh play WVU. I don't like watching bad sports (hence my preference for NBA over college hoops). I already watch Pittsburgh's pro team. The only reason I watch college sports is because of the direct connection to the University. If you strip that away, I'm just watching shitty football.

Actually competitive football is worth watching. P5 level is pretty entertaining, moreso than say the Jets vs the Jags. But colleges seem hell bent on making it less competitive, that would make it more crappy, and therefore I have better things to do on a Saturday.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

The minor league might be good football. Maybe even great football. Basically it likely will be most of the current college football, minus the top 24 or so. But it won’t be the MAJOR league of football. Everyone will have in their head that Pitt had once been in the bigs, but had to drop to the pee wee league. And that will keep it from much of any following in this region.

Pittsburgh has a major chip on its shoulder about wanting to still be seen as a relevant market. A significant portion of the populace (and much the sports media) of the region are PSU followers and will happily throw in totally behind PSU football in the new major league as the “Pittsburgh” program; whatever attention the Pitt football would get in the new lower league would be in the context of poor attendance, an embarrassing loss, a player arrested, coach firings, etc. Basically, a punchline. So in other words, much of what we get today! Except we won’t have the generational conference win like the past season to get some rare positive coverage.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The minor league might be good football. Maybe even great football. Basically it likely will be most of the current college football, minus the top 24 or so. But it won’t be the MAJOR league of football. Everyone will have in their head that Pitt had once been in the bigs, but had to drop to the pee wee league. And that will keep it from much of any following in this region.

Pittsburgh has a major chip on its shoulder about wanting to still be seen as a relevant market. A significant portion of the populace (and much the sports media) of the region are PSU followers and will happily throw in totally behind PSU football in the new major league as the “Pittsburgh” program; whatever attention the Pitt football would get in the new lower league would be in the context of poor attendance, an embarrassing loss, a player arrested, coach firings, etc. Basically, a punchline. So in other words, much of what we get today! Except we won’t have the generational conference win like the past season to get some rare positive coverage.

Let's boil it down to a few facts that work against Pitt.

1) Pittsburgh is a medium sized market now. LA can absorb multiple NFL teams and say support an USC and UCLA. NY has two pro teams and really could care less about college football. Miami is a large market can support pro and college.

2) On that note, the Steelers have been the most successful franchise since the AFL/NFL merger. Championships, Conference Championships, Division Championships and I think the best overrall record. Since 1970? Pitt is has had 8 really good, nationally relevant seasons. The Dolphins in contrast, haven't been relevant since Marino played, which helps programs like "the U" gain traction with the locals. Here? NFL success far outstrips college success.

3) As I (and others) have mentioned many of times, draw a 250 mile circle around Pittsburgh. You hit Penn State, Ohio State, WVU, Maryland, Michigan, Notre Dame fanbases. 4 of those fanbases are among the largest in the sport. Contrast this with Minneapolis, a much larger market than Pittsburgh, you just touch the Wisconsin and Iowa fanbases. Outside of Georgia Tech, no other schools face such proximate college football fan competition. Plus Atlanta is much larger than Pittsburgh and the Falcons are nowhere near as popular as the Steelers. It is hard to grow with the casual fan here.

4) and a PSU/WVU/Big 10 centric local sports media (also pro centric) do not give Pitt much of a thought. So there is no hometown media to act as cheerleaders and help create interest and sell excitement for the program. Hell, to the contrary, even when we do have something good, we have media detractors diminishing it, outright despising it, or ignoring it.

That's just too big of a mountain to overcome if there is ever that super division of college football for Pitt to participate in IMO.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Let's boil it down to a few facts that work against Pitt.

1) Pittsburgh is a medium sized market now. LA can absorb multiple NFL teams and say support an USC and UCLA. NY has two pro teams and really could care less about college football. Miami is a large market can support pro and college.

2) On that note, the Steelers have been the most successful franchise since the AFL/NFL merger. Championships, Conference Championships, Division Championships and I think the best overrall record. Since 1970? Pitt is has had 8 really good, nationally relevant seasons. The Dolphins in contrast, haven't been relevant since Marino played, which helps programs like "the U" gain traction with the locals. Here? NFL success far outstrips college success.

3) As I (and others) have mentioned many of times, draw a 250 mile circle around Pittsburgh. You hit Penn State, Ohio State, WVU, Maryland, Michigan, Notre Dame fanbases. 4 of those fanbases are among the largest in the sport. Contrast this with Minneapolis, a much larger market than Pittsburgh, you just touch the Wisconsin and Iowa fanbases. Outside of Georgia Tech, no other schools face such proximate college football fan competition. Plus Atlanta is much larger than Pittsburgh and the Falcons are nowhere near as popular as the Steelers. It is hard to grow with the casual fan here.

4) and a PSU/WVU/Big 10 centric local sports media (also pro centric) do not give Pitt much of a thought. So there is no hometown media to act as cheerleaders and help create interest and sell excitement for the program. Hell, to the contrary, even when we do have something good, we have media detractors diminishing it, outright despising it, or ignoring it.

That's just too big of a mountain to overcome if there is ever that super division of college football for Pitt to participate in IMO.

Oh I’m taking it 100% for granted that Pitt will not be in any new new super league. Due to your points and my points and several others. But mainly because it will likely involve regular salaries (either directly through the schools or via boosters). Pitt is currently giving lip service to the NIL crap and willing to allow substantial efforts for isolated super stars like Addison (so far); but salaries / benefits / no academic requirements (either real or fictional) / “loose affiliation” for all will be the bridge too far.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

In my scenario, ideally yes. Loose affilation. Have to take 3 credits. But if that makes the Pittsburgh Panthers pro football team have to fund women's swimming then I wouldn't require they take classes. Whatever it takes to get out of Title IX.

Also, this would be an Under 25 league. Players are eligible until the calendar year in which they turn 25 years old. And there's no such thing as "declaring for the draft." The NFL can draft you whenever they want. If they dont, or you dont like where you are picked, you can remain in the pro college league until age 25

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/FcuiZUneg1YRAu1lH2" width="480" height="480" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href=""

 

[Pitt79]

Oh I’m taking it 100% for granted that Pitt will not be in any new new super league. Due to your points and my points and several others. But mainly because it will likely involve regular salaries (either directly through the schools or via boosters). Pitt is currently giving lip service to the NIL crap and willing to allow substantial efforts for isolated super stars like Addison (so far); but salaries / benefits / no academic requirements (either real or fictional) / “loose affiliation” for all will be the bridge too far.

Good, I'd rather them drop to D3 or something. NOT pay players, I used to care and want to take it seriously, but wanting to join this is wanting to take it seriously like a good ole boy southern hillbilly booster in a 10 gallon hat named Jim Bob, where the purpose of the university is football, F that GO ACADEMICS! Scholarships for fat nerdy kids good at Calculus! the events of the last few months make me feel like GO EGG HEADS BURN IT DOWN.

 

[pittdan77]

It's all speculation and it really isn't worth all of these fantastic "what if's". It all seems silly because most academic institutions aren't going to have football if they have to completely sell out and TV isn't going to just pay the same for a couple dozen schools.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yes, I think that. Pittsburgh has minor league football already and it earns nothing. Just because it steals a college name doesn't change it from being minor league football. Maybe WV fans will watch it because they're that dumb, but Pitt fans won't give it a seconds thought. Nor will TV execs.

OK, so to recap, you love watching minor league football if the players are paid with scholarships, free food, housing, etc. But if those SAME EXACT players are paid with money instead and play for the SAME EXACT teams, you wont watch? You'd be the only one.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So who is paying these pro minor league players? Because if it's the University of Pittsburgh, I can't see how they'd escape Title IX.

Nope. I'm not watching a minor league football team from Pittsburgh play WVU. I don't like watching bad sports (hence my preference for NBA over college hoops). I already watch Pittsburgh's pro team. The only reason I watch college sports is because of the direct connection to the University. If you strip that away, I'm just watching shitty football.

The Pittsburgh Panthers Football Club is paying the players, which is a separate for-profit corporation. No Title IX required. As part of the player contract, perhaps they be required to take 3 credits per semester to keep a loose affilation with the university but if that makes them have to fund Olympic sports, then no.

And you people need to stop with "nobody is watching minor league football." Its currently minor league football and is super popular. This makes it better because there's no more NIL booster deals. If Pitt spots an Addison, he gets a 4 year contract and cant go to the highest bidder every season.

 

[pittdan77]

The Pittsburgh Panthers Football Club is paying the players, which is a separate for-profit corporation. No Title IX required. As part of the player contract, perhaps they be required to take 3 credits per semester to keep a loose affilation with the university but if that makes them have to fund Olympic sports, then no.

And you people need to stop with "nobody is watching minor league football." Its currently minor league football and is super popular. This makes it better because there's no more NIL booster deals. If Pitt spots an Addison, he gets a 4 year contract and cant go to the highest bidder every season.

ANY affiliation with the school will put Title IX in play so what you're basically saying, is, someone should just start a prospects league and forget about college football.

 

[Ski11585]

The Pittsburgh Panthers Football Club is paying the players, which is a separate for-profit corporation. No Title IX required. As part of the player contract, perhaps they be required to take 3 credits per semester to keep a loose affilation with the university but if that makes them have to fund Olympic sports, then no.

And you people need to stop with "nobody is watching minor league football." Its currently minor league football and is super popular. This makes it better because there's no more NIL booster deals. If Pitt spots an Addison, he gets a 4 year contract and cant go to the highest bidder every season.

The current minor league format is popular because it is directly tied to a university.

For your ludicrous idea...

Will there be homecoming weekends? Will the university bands perform? Will I hear Hail to Pitt or the Alma Mater? You know, the things that connect it to the college you attended?

 

[Pitt79]

The Pittsburgh Panthers Football Club is paying the players, which is a separate for-profit corporation. No Title IX required. As part of the player contract, perhaps they be required to take 3 credits per semester to keep a loose affilation with the university but if that makes them have to fund Olympic sports, then no.

And you people need to stop with "nobody is watching minor league football." Its currently minor league football and is super popular. This makes it better because there's no more NIL booster deals. If Pitt spots an Addison, he gets a 4 year contract and cant go to the highest bidder every season.

So who is making the money from the for profit Panthers football club, who is paying the players? You never answered that? And if they don't fund the other sports, I hope the University tells them to go F themselves, sue them if they use the logos. colors or script Pitt too. Lot's of people, more than you think will say F This if it's just a football team that pays to use Pitt's name, logos and colors. And not part of or contributing to the University. the only way I'd consider it is if this "corporation" FULLY FUNDS all the other sports.

Again, answer this time WHO PAYS THE PLAYERS AND COACHES? WHO KEEPS THE PROFITS?

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

The current minor league format is popular because it is directly tied to a university.

For your ludicrous idea...

Will there be homecoming weekends? Will the university bands perform? Will I hear Hail to Pitt or the Alma Mater? You know, the things that connect it to the college you attended?

dont forget that they have to take 3 credits per semester and have to be under the age of 25..

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The current minor league format is popular because it is directly tied to a university.

For your ludicrous idea...

Will there be homecoming weekends? Will the university bands perform? Will I hear Hail to Pitt or the Alma Mater? You know, the things that connect it to the college you attended?

Of course. It will be college football without the official affiliation to the university. The Pirates dont have to fulfill Title IX requirements for having a Pitt day. You will notice 0 difference.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

ANY affiliation with the school will put Title IX in play so what you're basically saying, is, someone should just start a prospects league and forget about college football.

Define affiliation? If Pitt student are cheerleaders, then we have to fund swimming? Nope. If I need to drop the 3 credit requirement, I will. The players can take classes anywhere or not but would be encouraged to take classes at Pitt. I'd suspect that most players would take classes at the school they are loosely affiliated with.

This isnt that hard. Its a pro league where teams bought the university's sports team name. Title IX not necessary.

 

[Dointhatrag]

This is only step one. Without the SEC the CFP money will become about half it is today and that money will go the the SEC playoff. That money is only shared by 16 teams and not distributing money to all of the conferences. This will ultimately lead to a conference like the big ten to join forces and split a larger pot.

Ultimately this will eliminate the lower conferences (you can still play them like FCS schools) from payouts and bowls with the SEC controlling the major college bowl playoff process. The only question is if individual teams outside the SEC will be invited to join or if fully conferences and their champions will be invited to participate.

 

[NCPitt]

OK, so to recap, you love watching minor league football if the players are paid with scholarships, free food, housing, etc. But if those SAME EXACT players are paid with money instead and play for the SAME EXACT teams, you wont watch? You'd be the only one.

There would be no one watching except you. No students would attend because it is not a "Pitt" game. No alumni would attend or watch because it is not a "Pitt" game. As Zelda said, it is a Mauler game.

Most of the players would not be the same anyhow. The only players that sign would be those who don't care about school and want the quick money, though it would be so small that t=even they may not. No coaches would go over because, well, look at the Maulers coaching staff and their pay.

 

[NCPitt]

The Pittsburgh Panthers Football Club is paying the players, which is a separate for-profit corporation. No Title IX required. As part of the player contract, perhaps they be required to take 3 credits per semester to keep a loose affilation with the university but if that makes them have to fund Olympic sports, then no.

And you people need to stop with "nobody is watching minor league football." Its currently minor league football and is super popular. This makes it better because there's no more NIL booster deals. If Pitt spots an Addison, he gets a 4 year contract and cant go to the highest bidder every season.

It is popular because it is a part of the university. Take that away and it is the Maulers. And it be taken away. There is not a snowball's chance in hell that schools would sign on.