Actually, I wish those so inclined would jump off the ledge.
Take a step back from the ledge
- Thread starter Fsgolfdr
- Start date
Sit back ,relax , don't sweat the bad games . Hope to see improvement during the season . People are constantly freaking out over a bad game, why ? After all isn't this is a team of unheralded freshman ?
If things totally fall apart the SH ( Stalling haters ) will get their wish sooner . If they improve add a few more pieces the following two yrs maybe we'll see good bb again .
It's almost as bad as the people, or, well, at least that one person, who constantly freaks out over people freaking out over a bad game.
Can't be me because I kind of find it humorous that people expect more out of this bunch . I've been pleasantly surprised
by the play of some these freshman and while conference play will be a challenge with continued development I see light at the end of the tunnel . I can't defend my observation with statistics I'm just using my eyes !
And other people find it humorous how much bad basketball you are willing to dismiss in a really weird quest to not say anything bad about an obviously flawed basketball team.
If I didn't know better and you weren't someone who has been around here for a while I think just about everyone would dismiss you as a troll. Like that Florida State dude who pops up every so often.
No , it’s just the way it is so why fight it . There’s absolutely nothing ANY of us can do to effect the situation . I’d personally like them to go all in and try and do whatever it takes to win national championships in either sport . Pitt isn’t interested in doing that otherwise they’d have never hired KS (or PN .) You don’t hire a KS type coach to elevate your
program .
Does saying that this team is probably the worst team in modern Pitt bb
history do any good ? I’d rather try to see if there’s light at the end of tunnel . I think some of freshman can be the foundation , they need two good players the next two classes and they can be a middle of the pack ACC team . That’s all they want so I doubt that your ever going to get something better very often .
That Joe are the facts as I see them wanting and expecting more will just lead to disappointment .
Then why are you here? And I mean that seriously, why are you here? If you can't stomach discussion about what is actually going on and you want to adopt the "well I can't change it anyway so what difference does it make" attitude then seriously, why do you pay any attention at all to any sports, not just Pitt basketball?
You can do anything to affect ANY sports team's situation. If you refuse to have or want anyone else to have an honest discussion about the team then why do you bother at all? Your attitude on this is so off kilter from, well, basically the whole rest of the planet on pretty much every sport played on the planet that it simply doesn't make any sense.
Whose stopping honest discussion ? I just don’t think it’s necessary and constructive to constantly whine about how bad a coach KS is , thought he’s somehow managed to fool a lot people for a lot of yrs before he came to Pitt . I hate to be the one that tells you this , but no one on this board has any power to change things we just all watch and have different opinions . Sometimes you can actually learn things .
You watch and analyze every stat and try to make sense of the game through numbers . I watch the game , I see how players move athletically ,I watch and see who shoots the ball well ,who passes the ball well , who can defend etc, I see how they respond to pressure , I watch and see what guys are constantly in the right place at the right time . I don’t need a stat sheet to know who played well and who didn’t . I don’t need a stat sheet to know whose a player , I don’t need a stat sheet to realize Pitts personnel deficiencies . I also realize that without cheating Pitts never going to attract the players to compete consistently in the ACC . I also know that Pitt is never going to drop a shirt load of money to lure a big time coach here . I know one of the reasons Pitt hired KS is due to his record of academic and recruiting integrity . Pitt cares about its reputation and their not willing to compromise themselves to compete for titles . All Pitt wants to be is a decent team in the best conference they can be in .
Maybe you just can’t see anything positive in this situation and if that’s the way you wish to see it enjoy yourself . I want to see any positive I can with this team otherwise why watch ?
KS is a below average coach, with a program right now that shows very little hope.
Your point is ? .......But he’s still the coach of the team you follow therefore I hope he succeeds !
Yeah, I hope he does too. I also hope I win the lottery.
Being realistic isn’t being negative.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news , but even JTPF would tell you KS has a better chance of being successful than you winning the lottery ! Good luck though !
How many times do you have to post that people shouldn't discuss negative things before you realize that, while you aren't going to be successful, it's you who it TRYING to do exactly that? Just because you continue to fail does not mean that you obviously aren't trying.
See, that's the difference between you and I. I realize that looking at the numbers can give you an ENHANCED view of the game, not a lesser one. That someone can actually watch the game and know what is going on AND look at the numbers to either confirm things or point out things that may have been missed. Which tends to work really well for someone like me who actually goes to all the games. Maybe that wouldn't work as well for someone who doesn't actually go or doesn't understand the numbers, but that's on them, not me. The fact of the matter is that your tilting at the windmill of statistical analysis simply shows that you are on the wrong side of history.
And that's fine. It's perfectly OK for different people to get enjoyment out of different aspects of the game. But there is a reason that every NBA team and pretty much every P6 college team now has people doing statistical analysis of their games. There is a reason that Pitt has people whose job is to do that kind of analysis. Because they all know that it will help them understand the games and their teams better. The fact that you disdain that additional knowledge is fine, but I always find it odd when people proclaim their willful ignorance as a badge of honor. But to each his own.
Didn’t the Browns just fire everyone running the franchise using the Billy Ball system of personnel evaluation system ?
I don’t care if you or anyone posts negative thoughts , but posting that a team made of freshman aren’t performing like an experience team is just silly . Things need to be in context of the situation at hand .
You just hit a great shot in golf a 1 in 1000 type shot for you and some ahole says ya but you should have seen the shot Tiger hit . Everything is relative . This is a team comprised of young inexperienced players and expecting them to play any different than they are now is delusional . I’ve seen spurts that gives me hope .....shoot me .
Ps ..statistics are important , but there’s more to watching the game than pure numbers . I remember Jerome Lane constantly missing a bunny then getting the rebound to miss again and the get another rebound before scoring . Pads the offensive rebound stats ! So his he a great rebounder , a lousy shot or both ?
Did you need Charles Smiths or Billy Knights career stats to know they’d be great pros or even Stevan Adams ? I didn’t because they pasted the eye test .
You're right that both traditional and advanced stats can be padded and also misleading if you don't put them in proper context. It's part of a bigger picture. They can also be used as crutches or excuses, which is cynical and real. And a coach's ability to stats might not be more important than their ability to recruit but it's pretty important.
Most of all, they're also important tools to adjust your strategy. The best coaches in the NBA (Brad Stevens, Rick Carlisle, Erik Spolestra, and even if he won't admit it - Greg Popovich) are all guys who use advanced stats to adjust their line ups and strategy. Even the most anti-stats coach I know of, Stan Van Gundy (who I love btw!) still looks at advanced stats, only he limits it to the ones produced by the Pistons office because he doesn't trust anyone else to break it down for him.
Howland and Dixon were smart about stats. They understood they're tools you can use to motivate your players -- you should post their +/- at half time and at the end of the game because it's easy for players to understand they want to be in the positive in their minutes on the floor if they want more playing time. I'd like to know Stallings' thoughts on the matter.
Yeah, there you go, the Browns. If what the people running the Browns are trying to do discredits everything about it, then not only have the Browns discredited statistical analysis they've also discredited scouting players, drafting players, getting high draft picks, signing free agents, keeping your own guys, and pretty much every idea anyone has ever tried to run a football team. The problem with the Browns isn't what "system" they are trying to use, it's the guy who owns the team and the people that he hires to run it.
The Browns are the counterpoint to the statement that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes.
There was an article in the PG a short time ago that talked about the guy that Pitt hired to do advanced statistical analysis. It's obvious that the coach doesn't feel the same way about statistics as some of the posters here do.
If you want evidence of that, watch the number of threes we shoot versus the number of mid-range jumpers that we shoot. And recognize that we are doing that on purpose.
Are the people running Pitt athletics any better ? Well maybe but not by much .
-If you watched an ASU game, their midrange game is non existent, its all threes and dribble penetration to the basket. Pomeroy better gets his eyes checked in regard to ASU basketball. Every game I watch they blow the other team right out of the gym with a full out attacking offense with some press defense. Sean Miller better get ready in Tuscon. Or their getting blown out too just like Kansas, Xavier, st johns, San Diego state, and everyone else they continue to rout with 3 point firepower, dribble penetration and creating turnovers.
I’m not against using everything available at your disposal to improve , but I trust in a coaches eyes and experience over a computer printout . As a spectator I don’t need every catorgory breakdown to know whose playing we’ll and whose not ..
And in a program that develops players, last years 12th or 13th player is often this years 5th or 6th player.
I don't like the decisions stallings has made, leaving a spot open is ridiculous, it is an indication of failed execution.
Dixon comes into the mix here a lot because he went into a difficult situation and immediately turned it around. Stallings has had an opportunity to turn it around as well, or just maintain the status quo, he hasn't.
-Our team needs dribble penetration on offense. I dont mind shooting alot of 3s, but you need to get to the basket too. Although our frontcourt is very MIA right now.
agreed, even if we don't have good post contributors I'd like to see Carr, JWF and Stephenson taking it to the rack more in order to open up the 3pt line a bit.
Did you watch what kind of players JD brought in the last few yrs ? Your 12&13th guys hardly ever become the 5/6 guy . New recruits come in every yr that solidifies your place at the end of the bench or you leave .
But see, that's the thing. All these coaches and GMs are buying into statistical analysis because they are smart enough to understand that given the biases that every one of us holds that sometimes a coach's eye and experience leads him astray.
It's no surprise to most people that the NBA teams that are the most successful tend to be the ones paying the most attention to analytics, and it's no surprise that the best college programs in the country are getting heavily into them as well.
Well, last years end of the bench guy played 22 min tonight and was on the floor during crunch time and Dixon brought him in. Luther was once the end of the bench and he is this years best player before injury. Joining Luther at the end of the bench was Cam Johnson and he will be contributing for UNC this year.
Guys like Wilson, Manigault and Kitchart were underclassmen and have left maybe they wouldn't have developed, but we've lost to teams with lesser talents than those three and those teams have beat us because they players have developed and grown smarter and better.
Wilson's freshman year under Dixon was about what you'd expect (though his shooting percentage was lower than I would have expected) under Dixon he would have likely been the one to replace Robinson, and with regular playing time we might have a different expectation of him. Stallings decided to move him off ball and play him sporadically. That is fine, he didn't fit Stallings system, he is gone, but it doesn't mean he was sh*t just because it fits the narrative that Dixon couldn't recruit.
Also, I wasn't making a point about Dixon in particular with my 12th or 13th guy, the point was there is no point in leaving a scholarship spot open, you recruit and develop guys.
I do believe it was Dixon who moved Wilson off the ball. I am not sure, but at the end of Dixon's tenure I do not believe Wilson was playing much.
Wilson had some nice stats early in his freshman year, he did not show much or even fit into a position after that. What was he supposed to be? A PG, 2G or SF?
He was still the primary backup at PG for Robinson through the end of the year (though he was a little banged up at the end). Many of the games you can look at and see that his minutes were simply the minutes that Robinson didn't play.
He really tanked down the stretch missing his final 13 shots of the season, but through Feb 9th of that year he had a 41% shooting percentage (including 41% from 3pt), 2:1 assist to turnover ratio, and seemed like a potential piece for the future. No guarantees, but for a frosh playing limited minutes he appeared to do the job asked of him. I remember this board being relatively pleased with what they saw.
He's sitting out a year and then will be at Georgia St.
I'm not sure if you are implying this, but just because guys transfer to lower levels does not A) mean they suck and B) mean it was the right decision to have them move on. Some teams don't want to take on guys who are going to have to sit a year if they are still developmental. It also doesn't mean anything special about Boykins that he was able to transfer a level up.
Wilson was probably gone the moment Stallings arrived and decided he'd rather have Artis play PG, but he was a good recruit at the time, and has some skills. He didn't put it together, we will see what he does at Georgia St.
I'd still rather have him on this club than Boykins, George, Chukwuka.
Wilson planned to transfer and Stallings made a personal plea for him to stay. Then never played him.
Neither Luther or Cam were recruiting wins , both got offered after Pitt missed on every primary target they went after . If you look at that roster neither one of those guys were the 12 or 13 th guy on that team . Cam especially was a shot in the dark kind of guy and both really needed the red shirt yr . While Ryan is indispensable now to this Pitt team he's a sixth man on any good team . I've stated many times I think JD really messed up burning Ryan's freshman yr the way he did . Some guys do have enough talent to play , but just aren't ready and both RL and CJ fit into that category. The players who left just aren't that good and we can revisit this subject next season when they're playing.
Last yrs bench guy Milligan , with no disrespect to him , would still be on the bench if Pitt wasn't in such an unusual situation .
Worrying about whose at the end of bench is really useless Pitt needs to worry about their front line guys .
Wilson shot wasn't very good either and KS assistant ,I think Richardson , was a shooting expert . The hope was his shot would improve.
I also believe Wilson's plan had nothing to do with Stallings , but with the previous hc .
Yes, and even fans of the previous HC weren’t heartbroken to see Wilson potentially leave, yet KS wanted to keep him.
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