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The problem with the Pirates

Changing topics within this thread a little but it really ticked me off yesterday when Rizzo clearly tried to take out Diaz’s legs and the Bucs did nothing to retaliate! Rizzo batted next inning and should have had a 90+ aimed right at HIS knees. Gutless Bucs.
Baseball has always had a little "hockey" in it, but seems today's game, these guys are all pals, or brothers in different uniforms.
Old school baseball would have called for something like that, but seemingly in today's game, you're looking at a tens of millions of dollars asset in Rizzo which makes him untouchable.

That said, how about that stupid Posey rule? It clearly states you can't do exactly what Rizzo did, the league chimpanzees watched it for like 10 minutes, and then ignored it without explanation! So what is the purpose of the rule? Did Diaz have to be disabled to call Rizzo out, is it no harm no foul? Either enforce the rule or get rid of it. I don't blame Hurdle for going nuts, and by ignoring the rule, the league tempts teams to take the law in their own hands.
Baseball ain't what it used to be........
 
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Changing topics within this thread a little but it really ticked me off yesterday when Rizzo clearly tried to take out Diaz’s legs and the Bucs did nothing to retaliate! Rizzo batted next inning and should have had a 90+ aimed right at HIS knees. Gutless Bucs.

Hockey season ended in Pittsburgh two weeks ago. Luckily for you, training camp starts in about five.
 
You clearly don't understand what the Cardinals have done, and why it is impossible for the Pirates do have ever done anything similar. The Cardinals have large expanses of territory with little or no competition in that they can expand their reach into. The Pirates have no such thing. The Pirates are surrounded by the Phillies, Orioles, Nationals. Indians, Reds and even the Blue Jays. The only place that there is for the Pirates to expand their market into is West Virginia. And they are already there. And even in parts of West Virginia there is competition, with Cleveland and Cincinnati in the western part of the state and Baltimore and Washington in the eastern part.

MLB considers the Pirates market to include all but the southeastern part PA, all of West Virginia, a slice of Ohio along the PA border and a stretch out toward Columbus, a small part of western Maryland, and the very western corner of New York. The Cardinals market includes all of Kansas except around Kansas City, all of Arkansas, all of Oklahoma, all of Iowa, all of Illinois except for the area in and around Chicago, the western part of Kentucky, the western part of Tennessee and the northwest portion of Mississippi. Their territory got that large because back in the day they were able to leverage the fact that their games were on one of the most powerful radio stations in the country in a way that was impossible for the Pirates because of all the Pirates relatively close MLB neighbors. Cardinals games are shown on television regularly in places approximately as far from St. Louis as Boston is to Pittsburgh. If you can't understand how that makes the Cardinals an outlier and not something that is possible for the Pirates, or any other team for that matter, to emulate then you are simply delusional.

Territory does not equal TV's or butts in seats. That's not delusional.

Delusional is when fans are making excuses for the Pittsburgh market so you have a built in excuse to not compete for titles. If that's really the case, the next time ownership threatens to move, let them. If a somewhat accidental run at the playoffs is a generational accomplishment (and for the Pirates, it really is, historically speaking), then why bother?
 
It's entertainment. If you don't want to buy into it then don't. The amount of bitching that people do because they are pissed off that someone else won't spend more of their own money to keep them entertained is, quite frankly, bizarre. Nutting doesn't owe any of us anything (assuming that we don't buy a ticket to a game). And we don't owe anything to him. If the Pirates don't entertain you then find your entertainment elsewhere. It is not, and never has been, something worth getting so pissed off over.

That's not exactly an apt comparison because there's no easy entertainment alternative for your lifelong baseball team. Baseball is not strictly entertainment; there are civic and family connections to your favorite team. If I don't like a movie, I can just not watch it. Same with video games, books, bars/restaurants, vacation destinations, etc. If there's something that I don't like about it, I can just switch or get rid of it because I have not been emotionally invested in those things. Your choices with baseball seem similar - adopt a new team or quit following the sport entirely - but are critically different at the same time.

Adopting a new team means you're switching from one team to another, potentially one that you've hated or at least has been a competitor for years. I am from Pittsburgh and I grew up loving the Pirates. I was at game 5 cheering on the Pirates against the Braves in 1992. It wasn't until I was an adult that it became clear to me that their ownership was different from other teams and would put profits above winning. So what do I do now? Adopt a different team in my mid-30's? Maybe the Phillies because my dad likes them, or the Braves because I live in Atlanta now? It's not that easy to just reverse course with your loyalties. If you give 30 years to an organization, you can't just replace them with someone else.

Nutting has ruined baseball for me. I have completely severed myself from the sport, even unfollowing the Pirates' social media and muting associated words. My frustration is not that the Pirates are losers - which they are. I could root for an inept team that at least puts its money down and goes for it. My frustration is that the Pirates have made it clear that they aren't trying to win.
 
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Baseball has always had a little "hockey" in it, but seems today's game, these guys are all pals, or brothers in different uniforms.

The rule is dumb because it's subjective. Unless they paint "slide boxes" at each base, it's just opinion as to weather or not it was legal. And these guys will take every single opportunity to gain an advantage because that's what they do.

I also don't think a bean ball that is intended to injure is comparable to a slide that was meant to interfere with the play and he accidentally hurt someone.
 
Your new handle...Joe, the dumb bloviator....from this point forward...You weren't talking about capital appreciation...you don't even know what that is..you were talking about income...Joe, the dumb bloviator!


You're too dumb to understand when the adults are talking, so just go back to mumbling to yourself and pretending like you know anything.
 
That's not exactly an apt comparison because there's no easy entertainment alternative for your lifelong baseball team.


I agree with you to some extent, but the fact of the matter is that depending on where you live you could just as easily attend a Washington Wild Things game or an Altoona Curve game or a West Virginia Black Bears (or whatever their nickname is) or other options if you are from a little further away. At the end of the day it is still entertainment. And if there is ever a time when something I'm doing for entertainment causes me as much misery as the Pirates clearly cause some of you then I will find something better to do with my time.
 
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Territory does not equal TV's or butts in seats.


Well of course it does. Those people in Nebraska and Iowa who are watching Cardinals games on Fox Sports Midwest are viewers every bit as much as the people who are watching in suburban St. Louis are. The fact that the Cardinals are broadcast to millions of viewers outside their own metropolitan area means that their broadcasts are worth more money than they would be otherwise. Do you really not understand that? The fact that people who are watching games in those areas make trips to St. Louis every year to watch the Cardinals in person actually does put butts in seats. Do you really not understand that?

The Cardinals television market is far, far greater than just the St. Louis metropolitan area. The Cardinals draw attendance from areas much further away from St. Louis than the average team is able to. Both of those are due to reason that have nothing at all to do with the franchises and have everything to do with the Cardinals being able to take advantage of geography in ways that almost no other franchise can.
 
This team is starting to look like Major League minus the comedy and chemistry. “Spend Nutting Get Nutting.” Too bad no one sky writes that over PNC.

Spare the small market argument. This ownership group has no interest in winning.
 
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This team is starting to look like Major League minus the comedy and chemistry. “Spend Nutting Get Nutting.” Too bad no one sky writes that over PNC.

Spare the small market argument. This ownership group has no interest in winning.
Where are the Saber Geniuses?

This team sucks, but I’d like to get my hopes up again by those guys telling us that if you are as smart as them, one could see the value here.

Btw watched the MLB stat guys explain how Morton and Cole are 2/5 of one of the best staffs, statistically, ever. Right now that is.
Maybe Uncle Ray Ray isnt all he’s hyped up to be here....I guess because he does an ok job with bushers and Tomato cans Nutting lines up every year...

Nutting you stink.
 
Well of course it does. Those people in Nebraska and Iowa who are watching Cardinals games on Fox Sports Midwest are viewers every bit as much as the people who are watching in suburban St. Louis are. The fact that the Cardinals are broadcast to millions of viewers outside their own metropolitan area means that their broadcasts are worth more money than they would be otherwise. Do you really not understand that? The fact that people who are watching games in those areas make trips to St. Louis every year to watch the Cardinals in person actually does put butts in seats. Do you really not understand that?

The Cardinals television market is far, far greater than just the St. Louis metropolitan area. The Cardinals draw attendance from areas much further away from St. Louis than the average team is able to. Both of those are due to reason that have nothing at all to do with the franchises and have everything to do with the Cardinals being able to take advantage of geography in ways that almost no other franchise can.

I actually decided to look up the MLB blackout map. You might want to do the same before you continue to ridicule anyone. I'm also curious where you think the "media market" numbers come from. Like, they just suddenly ignored real data and relied on a reddit fan-boy map? It's quite possible that someone who understands data came up with them. It's not like they even need to guess or run algorithms now. It's all pretty much real time data.

But let's pretend your data is right and people plan trips to St. Louis to watch games. I wonder if their birthright makes them go on some holy pilgrimage or if it's because they like to see a team that's winning and might even win a championship? Or maybe, this might be crazy, but maybe, people flock to winning teams?
 
I actually decided to look up the MLB blackout map. You might want to do the same before you continue to ridicule anyone. I'm also curious where you think the "media market" numbers come from. Like, they just suddenly ignored real data and relied on a reddit fan-boy map? It's quite possible that someone who understands data came up with them. It's not like they even need to guess or run algorithms now. It's all pretty much real time data.


I've seen the MLB blackout maps many, many times. No need to look it up. I also know where Fox Sports Midwest, which is the Cardinals RSN, broadcasts. Perhaps you ought to look that up, because you clearly don't know.

As far as media markets go, Neilsen defined the media markets. But what you continue to not understand, and it really isn't that difficult to understand, is that the Cardinals broadcast far beyond what is their defined media market. The Cardinals have a 15 year, $1 billion local media rights deal. The Pirates deal pays them something like $20 million for the next few years before their contract is up. Is it really that hard to understand how big a difference that is? While the Cardinals are broadcasting in all sorts of places that are not a part of their defined media market the Pirates, and most other teams, don't have that luxury. The Pirates can't broadcast in Cleveland or most of Ohio, which isn't all that far away. The Pirates can't broadcast in the most populous areas of Pennsylvania. The Pirates are boxed in by teams all around them in a way that the Cardinals are not.
 
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Well of course it does. Those people in Nebraska and Iowa who are watching Cardinals games on Fox Sports Midwest are viewers every bit as much as the people who are watching in suburban St. Louis are. The fact that the Cardinals are broadcast to millions of viewers outside their own metropolitan area means that their broadcasts are worth more money than they would be otherwise. Do you really not understand that? The fact that people who are watching games in those areas make trips to St. Louis every year to watch the Cardinals in person actually does put butts in seats. Do you really not understand that?

The Cardinals television market is far, far greater than just the St. Louis metropolitan area. The Cardinals draw attendance from areas much further away from St. Louis than the average team is able to. Both of those are due to reason that have nothing at all to do with the franchises and have everything to do with the Cardinals being able to take advantage of geography in ways that almost no other franchise can.

Oh that's true. KMOX (St Louis's flagship radio station) was picked up like into Tennessee, Alabama, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, Oklahoma.....and there was no MLB franchise in much of this area, so they all became defacto Cards fans.
 
Oh that's true. KMOX (St Louis's flagship radio station) was picked up like into Tennessee, Alabama, Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, Oklahoma.....and there was no MLB franchise in much of this area, so they all became defacto Cards fans.
Exactly correct. Baseball team allegiance is more generational than "in the now". The fan base can be traced back to the Gas House Gang and Dizzy Dean/Stan Musial days. The geographical reach of the Cardinals cannot be denied, they draw from a huge swath of middle America thanks mostly, as you say, to the reach of their flagship radio station into the hinterlands of the Ozarks, etc.
Categorizing them as a "small market" franchise is ridiculous.
 
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I've seen the MLB blackout maps many, many times. No need to look it up. I also know where Fox Sports Midwest, which is the Cardinals RSN, broadcasts. Perhaps you ought to look that up, because you clearly don't know.

As far as media markets go, Neilsen defined the media markets. But what you continue to not understand, and it really isn't that difficult to understand, is that the Cardinals broadcast far beyond what is their defined media market. The Cardinals have a 15 year, $1 billion local media rights deal. The Pirates deal pays them something like $20 million for the next few years before their contract is up. Is it really that hard to understand how big a difference that is? While the Cardinals are broadcasting in all sorts of places that are not a part of their defined media market the Pirates, and most other teams, don't have that luxury. The Pirates can't broadcast in Cleveland or most of Ohio, which isn't all that far away. The Pirates can't broadcast in the most populous areas of Pennsylvania. The Pirates are boxed in by teams all around them in a way that the Cardinals are not.

So dismiss the facts and just believe you? Got it.
 
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This is one of Clint Hurdles most impressive losses to date... he should of been let go years ago for the way he consistently mismanages his bullpen
 
This is one of Clint Hurdles most impressive losses to date... he should of been let go years ago for the way he consistently mismanages his bullpen
Rivera has been either great or horrible this year. It was obvious tonight after a few pitches he was throwing batting practice. At that point, they should have had someone warming up, not wait until the winning run got on. Why even bother at that point? Everyone knew the game would be over by the time anyone would be ready. Very poor management!
 
I mean how little confidence does Hurdle have in his bullpen that after all that’s been going on with Riveros arm and pitching now 3 days in a row he doesn’t pull him after the first 2 got on base. I wish I got paid millions of dollars a year to make horrible decisions...
 
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I mean how little confidence does Hurdle have in his bullpen that after all that’s been going on with Riveros arm and pitching now 3 days in a row he doesn’t pull him after the first 2 got on base. I wish I got paid millions of dollars a year to make horrible decisions...
Yet this dumpster fire is defended here
Lmao
 
Gettin Cole is a jackass but his parting shot was exactly right. Meanwhile Hurdle is now a part of the get along gang and he’ll lose and get paid with no repercussions from the top.
 
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Gettin Cole is a jackass but his parting shot was exactly right. Meanwhile Hurdle is now a part of the get along gang and he’ll lose and get paid with no repercussions from the top.
Bingo.

Bubbles had a great night last night....and the 2 guys for Houston not pitching for Uncle RayRay look like Cy Young and Walter Johnson
 
Gettin Cole is a jackass but his parting shot was exactly right. Meanwhile Hurdle is now a part of the get along gang and he’ll lose and get paid with no repercussions from the top.
It’s Nutting tying up cheap resources.....regardless what the wise-guy Saber geniuses tried to peddle here, Nutting doesn’t give a flying flip about fans or winning...

Big time attendance drop because the fan base has figured out his scam???
Doesn’t matter one iota he’ll field a team from The Wild Things if he has to to make his number.....

Not number of wins, the number of the many many very large in cash he puts in his back pocket.
 
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It’s Nutting tying up cheap resources.....regardless what the wise-guy Saber geniuses tried to peddle here, Nutting doesn’t give a flying flip about fans or winning...

Big time attendance drop because the fan base has figured out his scam???
Doesn’t matter one iota he’ll field a team from The Wild Things if he has to to make his number.....

Not number of wins, the number of the many many very large in cash he puts in his back pocket.
Saber geniuses....what ever became of the original saber genius, Moneybalz?
 
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