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The problem with the Pirates

Comparing the Dodger's and Yankees' strategy to that of the Pirates...you're clueless as usual


If I had no idea what the Dodgers (and the Yankees) were doing and proudly showed my ignorance to everyone who read your post I'd try to chance the subject too.

Well, no, probably not. Because if I didn't know what those teams were doing and why they were doing it I wouldn't have been dumb enough to make a post about what they were doing in the first place. Unlike you.
 
If I had no idea what the Dodgers (and the Yankees) were doing and proudly showed my ignorance to everyone who read your post I'd try to chance the subject too.

Well, no, probably not. Because if I didn't know what those teams were doing and why they were doing it I wouldn't have been dumb enough to make a post about what they were doing in the first place. Unlike you.
Keep bloviating and showing how little you know about any subject....
 
Coonely was the piece of dirt, who prodded by Nutsack, announced that if the fans don't come out, we will be forced to cut payroll. Only a chicken $hit owner and management would say something like that to the fans. They were paying attention this time, and it has resonated across the Burgh. Come late July and onward, expect sparse crowds and next year Nutsack may cut the payroll back to $50 mil. Their window has come and gone, and they haven't been drafting well. We may be headed for another 20 year rebuild. Other than Austin Meadows, all the highly touted prospects are flaming out badly!
 
Keep bloviating and showing how little you know about any subject....


This is why you are the best, del. You post about something that you obviously know nothing about, and when you get called on it you don't say "hey, I got that one wrong", you don't even just keep your mouth shut. No, not you. You double down on the stupid. That's why they're laughing at you del.

Or at least one of the reasons.
 
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I enjoy watching baseball. Watching the Pirates, as I always do, can be disheartening. Hurdles lineups are perplexing as all get out. We lack pitching and consistent hitting which doesn't bode well for the rest of this season. I just like to watch major league ball players compete at a high level and we get some of that here in the Burgh. just sayin'
 
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Hurdles lineups are perplexing as all get out.
Hurdles line ups are shear stupidity .
Look I respect your passion . I am also a huge fan of the Pirates .
But when he trots out that Sunday line up twice a week .
That's when I start to question his compitence as a manager .
 
Hurdles line ups are shear stupidity .
Look I respect your passion . I am also a huge fan of the Pirates .
But when he trots out that Sunday line up twice a week .
That's when I start to question his compitence as a manager .

Another start for Rodriguez. That’s a head scratcher
 
I do think Hurdle was a good manager and but over the last 2 seasons he’s ran his course. As much as I want him fired I have to stop and think maybe it’s not all his fault and he does the best anybody can do with that team. I mean it’s not his fault Polanco sucks, Jung Ho isn’t smart enough to hire a Korean limo, Marte got busted for PEDs, and management wont give him a good rotation or serviceable bull pen, but it is only his fault he keeps messing with the lineups, and my biggest gripe with him, he doesn’t know how to manage his pitchers. He’s cost this team, over at least the last three seasons, multiple wins due to horribly mismanaging the starters and bull pen. It’s time for him to step down
 
The Pirates problems given the day and situation:

1. Nutting
2. Huntington
3. Hurdle
4. The hitting coach
5. Gregory Polanco
 
It's hilarious. Send down Frazier and Kingham. Activate Nova and bring up Jacob Stallings, keep SRod around. You people who follow and support this team are absolutely morons. If you like baseball, root for someone else.
 
One thing is nice, they have a clear cut direction at the trade deadline and the two guys likely to go are playing well, so they could get a decent return for them. JHay and Cervelli.
 
One thing is nice, they have a clear cut direction at the trade deadline and the two guys likely to go are playing well, so they could get a decent return for them. JHay and Cervelli.
Wholesale

Mercer
Maybe Dickerson....hopefully the Closer , whatever his name will be by the deadline, turns it on and he goes too.

Nutting going to give a big F U to fans.
Payroll will be below the Mendoza line


WHERE ARE THE SABER GENIUSES???????
 
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The Pirates' future is very bright...NOT! Only 3 prospects in the Top 131 rated MLB prospects.
 
Actually there are 6 listed.
Call them up all 6 and play them.

Crash and burn in the desert.

Start a minor league team and make the tear down from 98 wins complete.
Bubbles has 3yrs left???
Uncle Ray Ray hasn’t looked so good lately...

What a mess Nutting has created.

Hey , but Bucs are heavy into Saber.
 
Call them up all 6 and play them.

Crash and burn in the desert.

Start a minor league team and make the tear down from 98 wins complete.
Bubbles has 3yrs left???
Uncle Ray Ray hasn’t looked so good lately...

What a mess Nutting has created.

Hey , but Bucs are heavy into Saber.

I hate to say this, but I am loving this. The offseason moves of trading Cutch and Cole didnt bother me. The extending of Huntingdon, Coonelly (what does he do?) and Hurdle did.

I hope they lose every game. I really do. I could care less. I think they are such a joke that the worse they do, the better it is.

I don't even watch them.
 
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Pains me to say as a die hard baseball fan, but I have written them off as well. I can't stomach supporting a team that is run like the Pirates.

They fooled me back into believing they would actually invest into the team when they got good, that this management team and more importantly owner would be different once they started winning by adding pieces and adding payroll. But they proved they suck, that I was a sucker for starting to believe again.

The Cutch and Cole trades on the surface were not terrible. Cutch is clearly on the back end of his career and Cole was never resigning here and I think they got a decent return. So trading them actually made some sense.

But the two moves being made after doing basically nothing in the prime Cutch years when you had an MVP player who was way underpaid still sickens me to this day. Save me the nonsense how they added Burnett, or they added Happ, etc... They added guys that were all dirt cheap that they got on a bargain. Sure some worked out but the primary reason for getting those guys were because they were dirt cheap.

Franchise is a joke. They will not go outside their comfort zone financially under no circumstances.
 
I hate to say this, but I am loving this. The offseason moves of trading Cutch and Cole didnt bother me. The extending of Huntingdon, Coonelly (what does he do?) and Hurdle did.

I hope they lose every game. I really do. I could care less. I think they are such a joke that the worse they do, the better it is.

I don't even watch them.
Understand
Nutting has done this to too many.

I went way back to being a kid when owners weren’t much thought about.
I knew the Galbraiths owned the Bucs and O’Malley the Dodgers , the Yanks were great and the Cubs /Phillies were bums. And the Bucs could at least hit.
And just be a fan.

But this is getting ridiculous it’s hard to keep rooting.
 
It’s hard to believe the team everyone expected to be bad is actually bad.

For what , the 18th time in 20 years with peaking at a wildcard appearance?

Didn't have to be bad though with some competent management and ownership.

They caught lighting in a bottle a few years ago and instead of capitalizing on that opportunity, they did what they always do and did nothing but rake in profits. Pretty clear their brief success was a result of them getting lucky and not a result of good management of the franchise.
 
It’s hard to believe the team everyone expected to be bad is actually bad.

For what , the 18th time in 20 years with peaking at a wildcard appearance?
It’s the why....
Anybody with half a clue knew this did not have to happen but it was going to happen after Nutting ruined a 98 win team. That’s why it’s a topic.

Hope that brings you a little up to speed.
 
Pains me to say as a die hard baseball fan, but I have written them off as well. I can't stomach supporting a team that is run like the Pirates.

They fooled me back into believing they would actually invest into the team when they got good, that this management team and more importantly owner would be different once they started winning by adding pieces and adding payroll. But they proved they suck, that I was a sucker for starting to believe again.

The Cutch and Cole trades on the surface were not terrible. Cutch is clearly on the back end of his career and Cole was never resigning here and I think they got a decent return. So trading them actually made some sense.

But the two moves being made after doing basically nothing in the prime Cutch years when you had an MVP player who was way underpaid still sickens me to this day. Save me the nonsense how they added Burnett, or they added Happ, etc... They added guys that were all dirt cheap that they got on a bargain. Sure some worked out but the primary reason for getting those guys were because they were dirt cheap.

Franchise is a joke. They will not go outside their comfort zone financially under no circumstances.
Obviously today's Bucs are a hot mess, but I don't get your logic above.
The 3 pitchers the Pirates got at the deadline that year went something like 14-3 down the stretch, no matter how much they made.
Would you have felt better if they got 3 more expensive guys who contributed nothing?

That Pirate team was more mirage than anything getting to 98 wins. Their record in their division pretty much sucked, they feasted on lesser teams.
The two biggest problems at the end was Kang getting his leg tore apart, and Jake Arietta.

That said, in any normal organization experiencing a total collapse like this one, Hurdle would be GONE. The team obviously has no respect for him and won't play hard for him.
Look at Polanco not running out a ground ball to right field. He should have had his ass chewed out ala Billy Martin.
Then there is proof that the team is fractured. Remember the dugout confrontation between Freese and the 3rd base coach over retaliating for a player getting hit? Freese should have been gone the next day!

Searage, the miracle worker, has run out of magic. This pitching staff from top to bottom is horrible and getting worse. The team has scored enough runs to be at least around .500, but no lead is safe with this bullpen.

Best to ignore them because nothing will change under this regime, and its pretty obvious Nutting isn't going anywhere, and he's the boss, and he loves his management team.

Pirates are set up nicely for another 20 year run of putridness.
The only thing still in question is how low can attendance/interest go?
 
Obviously today's Bucs are a hot mess, but I don't get your logic above.
The 3 pitchers the Pirates got at the deadline that year went something like 14-3 down the stretch, no matter how much they made.
Would you have felt better if they got 3 more expensive guys who contributed nothing?

That Pirate team was more mirage than anything getting to 98 wins. Their record in their division pretty much sucked, they feasted on lesser teams.
The two biggest problems at the end was Kang getting his leg tore apart, and Jake Arietta.

That said, in any normal organization experiencing a total collapse like this one, Hurdle would be GONE. The team obviously has no respect for him and won't play hard for him.
Look at Polanco not running out a ground ball to right field. He should have had his ass chewed out ala Billy Martin.
Then there is proof that the team is fractured. Remember the dugout confrontation between Freese and the 3rd base coach over retaliating for a player getting hit? Freese should have been gone the next day!

Searage, the miracle worker, has run out of magic. This pitching staff from top to bottom is horrible and getting worse. The team has scored enough runs to be at least around .500, but no lead is safe with this bullpen.

Best to ignore them because nothing will change under this regime, and its pretty obvious Nutting isn't going anywhere, and he's the boss, and he loves his management team.

Pirates are set up nicely for another 20 year run of putridness.
The only thing still in question is how low can attendance/interest go?

Agree with almost everything you say but let me explain the part about the pitching being added.

Yes I agree they all worked out in the end.

But the bottom line is NO ONE expected those guys to produce like they did once added. They added those guys because they were dirt cheap, not because they thought they were going to perform the way they did. There is absolutely no way they added those guys because they thought they would outperform some of the other available players via trades that year.

For example, the Pirates added Happ after being linked to Price. Happ actually outperformed Price the 2nd half of that season. But there is absolutely no way anyone would have predicted that. Happ was a fringe rotation pitcher that season. He was added because he cost nothing in terms of prospects and salary not because. Now not saying that all players are in the Pirates range to be acquired. I understand they can't add giant salaries like the top spenders can but they definitely pass on players they can add because it takes them outside their comfort zone.
 
It was a team which could have been sustained

You don’t have a clue.

Sustained in what way?

A couple of pitchers, who years of struggling at other clubs , found a short term groove?

A player who was mvp worthy in his prime,
With a bunch of veterans having a brief renaissance.

It was fun- but always fleeting-
And their record against the best teams during that year showed they weren’t actually of that caliber.

They stink because they aren’t talented .
And aren’t likely to change .
 
I hate to say this, but I am loving this. The offseason moves of trading Cutch and Cole didnt bother me. The extending of Huntingdon, Coonelly (what does he do?) and Hurdle did.

I hope they lose every game. I really do. I could care less. I think they are such a joke that the worse they do, the better it is.

I don't even watch them.

I watched two innings of Pirate baseball this year. Neal Huntington should have been fired the same day John Russell was fired in 2010. He should have also been fired in 2012 during Collapse II, June 2016 when it was obvious he had a poor offseason and again at the end of 2017. He should not have been allowed to be the guy who gave Andrew McCutchen and Gerrit Cole away for spare and broken parts.

Once again, Huntington, in addition to Coonelly and Hurdle should be fired on Thursday.
 
Sustained in what way?

A couple of pitchers, who years of struggling at other clubs , found a short term groove?

A player who was mvp worthy in his prime,
With a bunch of veterans having a brief renaissance.

It was fun- but always fleeting-
And their record against the best teams during that year showed they weren’t actually of that caliber.

They stink because they aren’t talented .
And aren’t likely to change .

They had many years in a row of Top 5 picks in the draft. They have very little to show for that today. That is on NH and the mgmt team. They stink. That is how they could have sustained this by actually drafting and developing players like the Yankees do, like the Dodgers do, like the Cubs do. Sure all those teams spend big money in FA but they also draft and develop their own talent better than other organizations.

The Pirates spent way more than other teams in the draft(before the rules changed) by drafting tough to sign guys and paying them way more than other teams were willing to get them to sign. Their argument was how they were taking 1st round talents in rounds 2 through 6 where those players were still available because teams did not think they would sign. The Pirates argued how they were loading up their system with talent.

Well, their organization stinks overall at drafting and developing the talent. And the way Cole and Morton are pitching in Houston, there are also some serious question marks on their actual pitching strategy of forcing guys to throw predominantly sinkers/fastballs.
 
Agree with almost everything you say but let me explain the part about the pitching being added.

Yes I agree they all worked out in the end.

But the bottom line is NO ONE expected those guys to produce like they did once added. They added those guys because they were dirt cheap, not because they thought they were going to perform the way they did. There is absolutely no way they added those guys because they thought they would outperform some of the other available players via trades that year.

For example, the Pirates added Happ after being linked to Price. Happ actually outperformed Price the 2nd half of that season. But there is absolutely no way anyone would have predicted that. Happ was a fringe rotation pitcher that season. He was added because he cost nothing in terms of prospects and salary not because. Now not saying that all players are in the Pirates range to be acquired. I understand they can't add giant salaries like the top spenders can but they definitely pass on players they can add because it takes them outside their comfort zone.
So, because no one "predicted" that the players acquired would perform so well, in spite of them actually performing well and actually assisting in getting the Pirates to the WC game should be the litmus test?

Wow.

I'd hate to work for you. Let's see......I see something no one else sees, make some moves and the company makes tons of money. You call me in and tell me, Yeah, the company made millions because of your shrewd moves, but we have to let you go because no one would have predicted it!

The same crowd bemoaning the acquisition of Happ howled the loudest when the Pirates let him walk!
I get the Nutting hate, I hate him and this situation as well, but at least make sense, particularly with the benefit of hindsight.
The 98 win team was a mirage. Just like the Miracle team that contended briefly in the late 90's.
 
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