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The Steelers have given up

Since I know they'll never deal Watt, Heyward, etc. and accept that this is a rebuild...

1) You have to get Pickens the hell off this team. I don't care if it's for a 4th-round pick. Tell that psychotic tumor to take a hike.

2) Okorafor will be coming off the books and freeing up some cap space. Can cutting Trubisky also free some up? If so, you should be able to turn the two of them into one decent Tackle.

3) I'd love to lose out and get my paws on that WR from Washington (unlikely we could get that high, I know). You'd have to take one in the first round if you dealt Pickens.

4) Hopefully Trice is legit so CB is one less thing you have to worry about. I assume it will be more of a Calvin Austin situation, though, where he's talked about as a piece for the following season, and... he basically isn't one.

5) As we all know, our drafting has sucked. You cant do anything in this league if you don't draft well. Veteran contracts are way too out of control (look what the aforementioned Robinson, Okorafor, and Trubisky are making, for Pete's sake). You need to draft well and then flip some of those players for more draft picks eventually.
 
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Anyone who didn’t see this coming with Tomlin wasn’t living in reality….the rot started years ago with his drafting, the handling of head case players, his teams’ sloppy, undisciplined play, his clueless staff hires, his screwy in game decision making and his laughable view that he is a defensive expert. The parallels between the Steelers and Pitt are remarkable. Somewhere along the line someone in Pitt’s athletics dept. decided to emulate the Steelers, with stability being the objective that even exceeded that of winning championships… too bad they adopted and followed the template when it was already broken.
 
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Islanderpanther said:
Anyone who didn’t see this coming with Tomlin wasn’t living in reality….the rot started years ago with his drafting, the handling of head case players, his teams’ sloppy, undisciplined play, his clueless staff hires, his screwy in game decision making and his laughable view that he is a defensive expert. The parallels between the Steelers and Pitt are remarkable. Somewhere along the line someone in Pitt’s athletics dept. decided to emulate the Steelers, with stability being the objective that even exceeded that of winning championships… too bad they adopted and followed the template when it was already broken.
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Kevin Colbert absolutely sucked as a gm
 
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Islanderpanther said:
Anyone who didn’t see this coming with Tomlin wasn’t living in reality….the rot started years ago with his drafting, the handling of head case players, his teams’ sloppy, undisciplined play, his clueless staff hires, his screwy in game decision making and his laughable view that he is a defensive expert. The parallels between the Steelers and Pitt are remarkable. Somewhere along the line someone in Pitt’s athletics dept. decided to emulate the Steelers, with stability being the objective that even exceeded that of winning championships… too bad they adopted and followed the template when it was already broken.
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The only parallels between the Steelers and Pitt are both stink this year.
 
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Gunga_Galunga said:
The only parallels between the Steelers and Pitt are both stink this year.
Click to expand...

It goes way beyond that. Bad QB play, bad offensive lines, attrocious coordinators, stubborn defensive-minded head coaches, punters who should be bagging groceries, weak front sevens, shitty running backs getting more carries than good ones, assistant coaches who have no business collecting a paycheck, etc.
 
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TheWerewolfFromTwilight said:
It goes way beyond that. Bad QB play, bad offensive lines, attrocious coordinators, stubborn defensive-minded head coaches, punters who should be bagging groceries, weak front sevens, shitty running backs getting more carries than good ones, assistant coaches who have no business collecting a paycheck, etc.
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Add to that… committing stupid penalties, head scratching In game decisions, puzzling personnel decisions and just poor overall fundamentals including tackling And wr route running.
 
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The Steelers are one of the least talented teams in the NFL. It is a miracle they are in playoff contention. Their players are bad.
 
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PittPharm2002 said:
Ben was never ever in his career voted team MVP by his teammates

So his thoughts on what leadership is missing in the lockerroom is really the pot calling the kettle black

He created the largest leadership void while sucking up the salary cap for a decade
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Retired players from the 70s and 2000s say it, we all agree. Analysts say it and fans on message boards post it, we all agree. Ben says it, “oh he wasn’t a leader.” Sorry, but he isn’t wrong with what he’s saying.
 
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pittguy81 said:
I was thinking if things would have been different if Kevin Colbert had drafted Landon DIckerson instead of Pat Freiermuth.. I think an Pro Bowl caliber center would make all the difference for this OL. Issac Saumalo was really good in Philly when he had Jason Kelcey snapping the ball. We need somebody who can move bodies in the middle and not just snap the ball
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Yep...hated the pick when it was made. Nothing special about Freiermuth.
 
303vND said:
Yep...hated the pick when it was made. Nothing special about Freiermuth.
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I would’ve taken Humphrey in the first over Najee. He would’ve done more for the running game than Harris has provided. Warren has outplayed Harris and Cole has regressed to a bottom third center.
 
Burgh15 said:
I would’ve taken Humphrey in the first over Najee. He would’ve done more for the running game than Harris has provided. Warren has outplayed Harris and Cole has regressed to a bottom third center.
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Yeah..I hear what your saying but you could have still gotten Humphrey after the Najee pick And no one knew anything about Warren during the draft.
 
Burgh15 said:
Retired players from the 70s and 2000s say it, we all agree. Analysts say it and fans on message boards post it, we all agree. Ben says it, “oh he wasn’t a leader.” Sorry, but he isn’t wrong with what he’s saying.
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There is a word for believing things that agrees with your own opinion
Affirmation bias

It’s a easy claim when a team is losing

I mean with all the leadership that used to be there - how many playoff games did Ben’s teams win ?
Perhaps there wasn’t much - hence bell and ab were cancers , pouncy wearing “free Hernandez “ shirts etc
See what I mean .
 
PittPharm2002 said:
I can’t believe you dopes are still worried about WR
With all the hot garbage this team is
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Well the point some here are trying to make is that Pickens’ effort is tolerated by the team - forget Tomlin’s father/son facts-of-life heart-to-heart discussions. The entire team is polluted with this acceptance of garbage football. Guess you can say I’m reading too much into one player’s actions. It’s anyone’s guess exactly who is running the locker room these days. It’s not the “old days” folks.
 
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303vND said:
Yeah..I hear what your saying but you could have still gotten Humphrey after the Najee pick And no one knew anything about Warren during the draft.
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A tight end in round 2 is a better value pick than a running back in round 1. It has nothing to do with knowing about Warren at the time opposed to finding a capable running back is easy to do.
PittPharm2002 said:
There is a word for believing things that agrees with your own opinion
Affirmation bias

It’s a easy claim when a team is losing

I mean with all the leadership that used to be there - how many playoff games did Ben’s teams win ?
Perhaps there wasn’t much - hence bell and ab were cancers , pouncy wearing “free Hernandez “ shirts etc
See what I mean .
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Polamalu, Clark, Bettis, Ward, Farrior, Smith, Taylor, Keisel, etc. That team was loaded with leadership. Ben said he was the "last guard" meaning from the guys drafted in the 2000s, which is true. He said the defense has it, not on offense because of the age. He's also not wrong. Who's the leader in that group? If you can convince me there's a leader then I'll say Ben is wrong in what he was saying, but there isn't a guy in that group who is a leader.
 
Burgh15 said:
Retired players from the 70s and 2000s say it, we all agree. Analysts say it and fans on message boards post it, we all agree. Ben says it, “oh he wasn’t a leader.” Sorry, but he isn’t wrong with what he’s saying.
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It's not that Roethlisberger is wrong when he says that this team lacks leadership, it's that Roethlisberger is part of the reason why this team lacks leadership. HE was the guy who should have been enforcing "the standard" on guys when he was supposed to be the leader. HE was the guy who should have been in the locker room keeping (or at least attempting to keep) people like Johnson and Brown and Bell in line.

It's not like the rot on the Stillers just started this season, or even last. The rot started when Roethlisberger was supposed to be the leader. But never was.
 
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Joe the Panther Fan said:
It's not that Roethlisberger is wrong when he says that this team lacks leadership, it's that Roethlisberger is part of the reason why this team lacks leadership. HE was the guy who should have been enforcing "the standard" on guys when he was supposed to be the leader. HE was the guy who should have been in the locker room keeping (or at least attempting to keep) people like Johnson and Brown and Bell in line.

It's not like the rot on the Stillers just started this season, or even last. The rot started when Roethlisberger was supposed to be the leader. But never was.
Click to expand...
He was too busy letting everyone know about his undiagnosed injury to explain his bad performances in the playoffs
 
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Joe the Panther Fan said:
It's not that Roethlisberger is wrong when he says that this team lacks leadership, it's that Roethlisberger is part of the reason why this team lacks leadership. HE was the guy who should have been enforcing "the standard" on guys when he was supposed to be the leader. HE was the guy who should have been in the locker room keeping (or at least attempting to keep) people like Johnson and Brown and Bell in line.

It's not like the rot on the Stillers just started this season, or even last. The rot started when Roethlisberger was supposed to be the leader. But never was.
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How was he supposed to do that in such a short period of time? He barely played with any of the starters. Only two starters (one now benched) with more than 1 year of playing time with and one of the two said he isn't a vocal leader. Please explain how this was Ben's fault.

0 years
Kenny Pickett, George Pickens, Allen Robinson, Broderick Jones, James Daniels, Isaac Seumalo, Mason Cole

1 year
Najee Harris, Pat Freiermuth, Dan Moore
Okay, so he got 1 year with these guys, not exactly much time to instill leadership qualities.

3 years
Diontae Johnson
Some guys aren't natural leaders. He flat out told reporters in 2021:
"I just let my play do the talking. I'm not a vocal leader, so I'm not going to act like one."

Then last year he said:
"Being a leader, that's something I had to come out of my comfort zone because I'm not very vocal. I'm a very quiet person. It challenges me at times. There will be certain times I want to say certain stuff. I speak more open about how I feel. If we're not practicing hard enough, I'll tell them we've gotta pick up the energy. I try to bring that spark that we need to get going."

4 years
Chukwuma Okorafor
He probably shouldn't even have been a starter and was eventually benched.
 
Burgh15 said:
How was he supposed to do that in such a short period of time? He barely played with any of the starters. Only two starters (one now benched) with more than 1 year of playing time with and one of the two said he isn't a vocal leader. Please explain how this was Ben's fault.
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It's almost as if I said that the leadership vacuum started more than just a year or two ago. Johnson learned (or at least was shown) that there is no downside to selfish play from guys like Bell. And so on.

This problem started years ago, when the team had enough talent to paper over some, not all, but some, of the issues that the lack of leadership caused. Now the talent level isn't there, and the leadership issues that have been there for years can't be papered over anymore.
 
sonofabit said:
Well the point some here are trying to make is that Pickens’ effort is tolerated by the team - forget Tomlin’s father/son facts-of-life heart-to-heart discussions. The entire team is polluted with this acceptance of garbage football. Guess you can say I’m reading too much into one player’s actions. It’s anyone’s guess exactly who is running the locker room these days. It’s not the “old days” folks.
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It sure isn’t Captain .500
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
It's almost as if I said that the leadership vacuum started more than just a year or two ago. Johnson learned (or at least was shown) that there is no downside to selfish play from guys like Bell. And so on.

This problem started years ago, when the team had enough talent to paper over some, not all, but some, of the issues that the lack of leadership caused. Now the talent level isn't there, and the leadership issues that have been there for years can't be papered over anymore.
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So how exactly is the lack of leadership Ben's fault again? And how did Johnson learn that from Le'Veon Bell when he never played with Bell? I'm not quite following.

I could understand Tomlin for allowing talented players to do whatever until they didn't produce or became too much of a problem they let them go. Or from Tomlin allowing Harrison, Blount, or Ingram to get their way out of Pittsburgh during the middle of the season. I just don't get the connection with Ben and Bell.
 
Burgh15 said:
So how exactly is the lack of leadership Ben's fault again? And how did Johnson learn that from Le'Veon Bell when he never played with Bell? I'm not quite following.

I could understand Tomlin for allowing talented players to do whatever until they didn't produce or became too much of a problem they let them go. Or from Tomlin allowing Harrison, Blount, or Ingram to get their way out of Pittsburgh during the middle of the season. I just don't get the connection with Ben and Bell.
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Are you conceding that Ben never actually led at all in the lockerroom ?
Because it seems you aren’t saying Ben ever led the locker room
Instead - it’s pointing the finger at others - just like ben is now .

I will also point out that coaches don’t make roster decisions - it’s why the GM exists .
So blame Colbert
He probably assumed the most highly paid player by 4x would lead
 
PittPharm2002 said:
Are you conceding that Ben never actually led at all in the lockerroom ?
Because it seems you aren’t saying Ben ever led the locker room
Instead - it’s pointing the finger at others - just like ben is now .

I will also point out that coaches don’t make roster decisions - it’s why the GM exists .
So blame Colbert
He probably assumed the most highly paid player by 4x would lead
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Nope.

Are you suggesting Tomlin had nothing to do with allowing Harrison, Blount, and Ingram to force their way off the team?
 
They stink on offense because najee is not good. Let him go. 3 of the 5 OL are not good. Let Moore and Cole go. Freiermuth is average at best but he can be serviceable. They have cumulatively 1.5 good WRs. Pickett's development was screwed up by Canada just like it was here by Watson

The defense stinks recently because the two best ILBs got hurt, the DT position has no depth, and yesterday the 2 best safeties got ejected and hurt respectively

Priority one over the offseason has to be get the best OC available and tell him implement a system that LETS PICKETT PLAY. Either he sinks or he swims. I think he'll swim. Second cut all the dead weight you can and get the best LT and C you can. You can live with James Daniels at RG if you upgrade from Dan Moore and Mason Cole. Free agency or the first-second rounds of the draft there. Third get the defense healthy and add a decent DT if you can. Fourth find some ok WR in the middle rounds of the draft

The Steelers can be an average team next year and a good one the year after that if they get serious about replacing staff (not MT, sorry he's going nowhere) and the worst players they have. They probably won't be though
 
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I think I’ve mentioned this before, but I really think this is similar to the Andy Reid/Eagles situation. Mike Tomlin is a good coach and could very well have success elsewhere, but it’s becoming clear that both sides need a fresh start.

How about this idea: trade Tomlin to Carolina or Washington for a pair of first round picks, then use those to build a trade package for Justin Herbert.
 
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Chris Hoke is a idiot. Saying Pickett was responsible for getting hurt because Austin was open!

Austin was not open. The CB on that side standing one foot inside the end zone was staring Pickett down the entire play. Waiting to jump the route if he threw to Austin. It's a 96 yard pick six if he throws to Austin. He saw that and didn't throw to Austin. I dunno how Hoke didn't see that other than he's a dumb meathead lineman. Pickens was running a slant in front of the CB with a safety coming down on him, that wasn't a safe throw either. They're still calling Canada's college plays which are easy to defend in the secondary. Get a real OC in there with real NFL plays
 
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deepelemblues said:
Chris Hoke is a idiot. Saying Pickett was responsible for getting hurt because Austin was open!

Austin was not open. The CB on that side standing one foot inside the end zone was staring Pickett down the entire play. Waiting to jump the route if he threw to Austin. It's a 96 yard pick six if he throws to Austin. He saw that and didn't throw to Austin. I dunno how Hoke didn't see that other than he's a dumb meathead lineman. Pickens was running a slant in front of the CB with a safety coming down on him, that wasn't a safe throw either. They're still calling Canada's college plays which are easy to defend in the secondary. Get a real OC in there with real NFL plays
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I saw what you saw and thought Hoke had it wrong along with those here that insisted he was wide open. That is a longer throw than most realize and it sure looked like the CB was sitting on the play. What looked like Austin was wide open to me looked like the CB was baiting the throw. Just my take also.
 
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pittbb80 said:
LOL. This has to be one of the dumbest statements made on this Board. There’s not a HC out there who doesn’t have significant influence on roster make up.
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If you think the decision to resign someone is up to the coach -
You’re confused
 
TheWerewolfFromTwilight said:
Since I know they'll never deal Watt, Heyward, etc. and accept that this is a rebuild...

1) You have to get Pickens the hell off this team. I don't care if it's for a 4th-round pick. Tell that psychotic tumor to take a hike.

2) Okorafor will be coming off the books and freeing up some cap space. Can cutting Trubisky also free some up? If so, you should be able to turn the two of them into one decent Tackle.

3) I'd love to lose out and get my paws on that WR from Washington (unlikely we could get that high, I know). You'd have to take one in the first round if you dealt Pickens.

4) Hopefully Trice is legit so CB is one less thing you have to worry about. I assume it will be more of a Calvin Austin situation, though, where he's talked about as a piece for the following season, and... he basically isn't one.

5) As we all know, our drafting has sucked. You cant do anything in this league if you don't draft well. Veteran contracts are way too out of control (look what the aforementioned Robinson, Okorafor, and Trubisky are making, for Pete's sake). You need to draft well and then flip some of those players for more draft picks eventually.
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This team probably gets an F for its 1st and 2nd Round drafting

Pickens
Smith-Schuster
Toast Porter
Friermuth
Harris
You can even throw Pickett in there though the bust rate of 1st Round QBs is at least 50% so you kinda know that's a huge risk. Not that he's a bust but they could have gotten another player and drafted a QB later.
 
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