As noted - Pickens is Not
- Thread starter PittPharm2002
- Start date
Ummm....where are you going with this one? Because Cunningham was good in Philly before Randy showed up.really?
Randall Cunningham was good in Philly without him .really?
If you’re going to make a point - use Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins , and Gus ferrotte.
Then I’d ask why Waddle and Hill aren’t making the backup QB better ?
Yeah, I think there are too many miles on those tires to make a big difference. He also would fit into a role that we drafted for in Wilson. If Wilson could get on the field it would be a big boost. If Wilson can't, then Kupp could play that part..... but Kupp is a guy for Mahomes or Allen, or Brady before he retired. The Steelers don't have the quarterback to make it worthwhile.
A lot of scouting reports projected him as a #2 receiver coming out. Of course, we could have a whole debate about what that really means. And he's the Steelers' #1 by a wide margin. But yeah, not sure he's ever going to be that always-open, volume catch #1 guy. They had a guy like that -- albeit highly flawed -- so they dumped him in order to go whale hunting.
Note that it's still shocking that someone wouldn't want to leave the Bay Area and a Super Bowl contending team where he puts up numbers to come catch passes from a poor man's Kordell Stewart and the ghost of Russell Wilson in western PA in fall and winter. Can't blame the Steelers for being blindsided by that one.
Randall was good at 25 in Philly, but at 35 in Minnesota after multiple injuries and coming out of retirement? Sure he was probably an ok starter, but he isn't sniffing MVP without Carter and Moss.
Well darn...that was pretty profound! Any other in-depth analysis you want to provide?
A 31 year old slot receiver coming off injuries the last 3 seasons in a row ?
Maybe if he’s cheap enough .
I mean he’s better than Jefferson and Austin , but that’s a low bar .
Sorry mate, didn't mean to trigger you by pointing out that an oft-injured, once-retired, sack-magnet, 35-year old QB that hadn't played a full season in 3 years, hadn't had a good season in 5 years might not be a 1st Team All-Pro QB without the 2nd best WR in NFL history and another HoF WR on the other side.
Agree 100%.
They had their chance to improve the position group during the offseason and really just subtracted from it. I do think that Wilson gives them a better chance to have a decent-ish offense just because he actually has QB skills and doesn't require training wheels.
Anyway, they should keep their powder dry and get after it this offseason. But I won't be shocked if they make a questionable decision here.
"when" was he good? 1991, 1990? He was pretty pedestrian after that if not terrible.
To think Randy Moss and Cris Carter weren't the catalysts of that offense is really naïve.
So- I’ll ask -
Why is the Dolphins offense so bad now despite having Waddle and Hill?
I mean - if his point is having 2 of the top 3 receivers in nfl history allows anyone to throw it up and look competent - sure , no doubt .
But- I notice he didn’t go through my other moss QBs who threw him TDs, either .
And of course - those teams didn’t win much since moss has 0 rings .
I say as a huge moss fan .
Pickens isn’t in that stratosphere.
Let’s keep it local- did the Young Money WRs make Ben ? (Ab, Wallace, and Sanders)
Sanders was a quality receiver in Denver too.
Wallace sucked in Miami and disappeared .
AB stayed longer and had a borderline HOF career despite CTE.
Then new receivers took over and succeeded.
I haven't watched much of the Dolphins.
However, I see that Waddle has played 2 games this year. Is he hurt?
Maybe Tua isn't very good to begin with.
To think offensive success is predicated upon solely QB play is so naïve. It's purely an equation. There are examples of great QB's making average receivers really good. There are examples of great receivers making average QB's really good. The QB is the MOST important position on the field. Most would not disagree with that. But, more often then not it's the whole is greater then the sum of the parts.
If this were even remotely true, I think Saban's QB tree would look a little better in the NFL then it historically has. Those WR's he recruited elevated the QB's at Bama much more then the QB's elevated the receiver play.
Did the young $ receivers "make" Ben - nope. But, they sure as hell made him look extremely better then he ever did before or after.
But, when these new receivers took over and "succeeded" lets take a look at that.
Steelers' Passing YPG
2019 - 31st
2020 - 7th
2021 - 15th
2022 - 24th
2023 - 25th
Steelers' Scoring Offense
2019 - 27th
2020 - 12th
2021 - 21st
2022 - 26th
2023 - 28th
Succeeded at what?
You’re smarter than this .
Receiver is a dependent position.
Saban’s QBs have been mediocre excluding Tua - because they get the benefit of having a superior oline, RB, TE, and defense to make their win-loss record inflated .
All he needs is a game manager .
Hint - he injured his elbow in 2019 .
And was never the same.
Context matters
But weird how without Ben the receivers didn’t succeed with a backup qb ?
Seeems you defeated your own premise .
As noted - why wasn’t Wallace as good in Miami?
Wallace was a 1 trick pony who benefitted from having Ben, Heath, AB, and Sanders. His job was extremely important though. His ability to "take the top off the defense" as Mike used to say was critical in allowing the underneath passing attack to develop and make Ben's reads clearer. Again - "the whole is greater then the sum of the parts."
I'm sorry but having Brian Hartline, Marlon Moore, Rishard Matthews surrounding you is a little different then having AB, Heath, AB, HInes, Mendenhall, and Sanders around you.
I sometimes wonder why I post on this board anymore. smh
You write "receiver is a dependent position" as if QB isn't. Every position on offense is a dependent one except for the OL.
The same way you described Saban's QB is the same way anyone with a clue would have described Cunningham prior to 1998. He joined a team with 2 HOF WR's, 3 starting pro bowl lineman, 2 backup pro bowl lineman, and a pro bowl RB. But, everyone with a clue knew that Randy was the catalyst. He literally changed defenses. Robert Smith credits Randy Moss for him not taking the beating he did in previous years because they rarely saw single high defenses anymore.
With the Rams surprising victory last night, it may be the Kupp trade won't be available for the Steelers any more.
Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing, but it sure would be nice to upgrade WR for the second half.
Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing, but it sure would be nice to upgrade WR for the second half.
You could argue that OL is dependent as well to some extent. If you have a qb who can move around in the pocket a bit and has good pocket presence it makes the OLs job easier
Not sure why this is even a debate. They are all dependent from the HC to the OC to the qb wr etc. Are there any exceptions where a talented qb can offset weak talent around him sure. But those dudes don’t come around often.
The outcome might be better but the an OL's grade for a game is not dependent on anyone else but himself.
I think the OC is more influential to the OL then other position groups. Case in point - if you're asking your OL to do things they can't execute, that's mainly on the OC. If you cater around what you can block, you're helping the OL. So in many cases the OL is dependent on coaching then other position groups.
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