Eric Kasperowicz out at P-R

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Well stated.

Arguably it’s also a reason for year round schools in areas with challenging demographics
Kids backslide during summer breaks -
And kids with engaged parents have them in camps, museum trips , etc
Every year the kids without academic support have to make up more ground compared to those who do
Over 12 years the gap widens

 

[PeetWeet1]

I would suggest The point is the school performance isn’t because of better teachers -
I’d suggest if say if schools simply swapped teachers and administrators the outcomes would be unchanged
Likewise if the students swapped places pine would score much lower and pps much higher -
Because as most reasonable people understand that city and even rural areas schools score lower because of lack of parental support and poverty creating barriers to success for kids

which is why when you actually dig into the demographic data to compare apples to apples - kids succeed at schools based on 80% of factors outside of the actual school

I agree parents > students > admin/ teachers.

However, bad admin can kill a school. Even ‘wealthy’ Catholic ones. Rural schools often have a triple whammy - bad parents, low pay, and not enough students. The only bad academic place for a really good student is a tiny, general population, school. Give me New Castle over the surrounding schools except Neshannock, maybe.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

I would suggest The point is the school performance isn’t because of better teachers -
I’d suggest if say if schools simply swapped teachers and administrators the outcomes would be unchanged
Likewise if the students swapped places pine would score much lower and pps much higher -
Because as most reasonable people understand that city and even rural areas schools score lower because of lack of parental support and poverty creating barriers to success for kids

which is why when you actually dig into the demographic data to compare apples to apples - kids succeed at schools based on 80% of factors outside of the actual school

And whose job is that to fix these disparities? It's not up to the government. It's up to the parents.

I also have to disagree on outcomes being unchanged if you swapped administrators, teachers and students. The better, more qualified administrators and the better teachers are centered in the better schools because they can offer better pay for better qualifications. As it should be. Better qualified people are getting paid more, excel at their jobs and impact better results. Better teachers and better administrators and superintendents have more demand for their services, which comes with a price tag. It's just the way it is.

There are always exceptions, like the kid in the inner city school that is particularly talented or innately intelligent who excels in spite of the less than ideal conditions. Chances are very good he excels because of outstanding upbringing by his parents and his own desire to be better. Those are the kids I have a lot of respect for. It's easier to possess even slightly above average intelligence and excel in an NA or PR, because of the support mechanisms in those systems. The inner city schools don't have much of that because they can't afford it and/or the teachers and administrators don't have the ability to provide this level of support.

This is just my opinion, based on my experiences and the experiences of those in these positions in various schools. I tend to trust their statements more than an anonymous message board poster.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Good. Let’s integrate Pine Richland. Fire up the buses.

It's already integrated.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I would suggest The point is the school performance isn’t because of better teachers -
I’d suggest if say if schools simply swapped teachers and administrators the outcomes would be unchanged

So the administration doesn't matter. Ok, I can agree somewhat with this. I'll then ask this question - why would you want to keep one that resorted to shenanigans to get rid of a successful coach? One that a lot of people don't really care for anyway.

Is it harder to find a good football coach or good superintendent?

 

[jtownknowitall]

So the administration doesn't matter. Ok, I can agree somewhat with this. I'll then ask this question - why would you want to keep one that resorted to shenanigans to get rid of a successful coach? One that a lot of people don't really care for anyway.

Is it harder to find a good football coach or good superintendent?

They’re both a dime a dozen when you have the right material to work with.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

So the administration doesn't matter. Ok, I can agree somewhat with this. I'll then ask this question - why would you want to keep one that resorted to shenanigans to get rid of a successful coach? One that a lot of people don't really care for anyway.

Is it harder to find a good football coach or good superintendent?

If you think the football coach should be a priority for the superintendent I’d say our priorities are very different
Or are you sugggesting the school would be fine despite changing administration ?
Perhaps the great school isn’t based on the school itself ?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I agree parents > students > admin/ teachers.

However, bad admin can kill a school. Even ‘wealthy’ Catholic ones. Rural schools often have a triple whammy - bad parents, low pay, and not enough students. The only bad academic place for a really good student is a tiny, general population, school. Give me New Castle over the surrounding schools except Neshannock, maybe.

Which is why I am for another round of consolidation/mergers like happened in PA in the 60's. Which was interesting because that was the height of the boomer generation and growing enrollments not declining. Anyways, again I understand when you are in Elk or Cameron county, there is little options. You can only travel so far. But no way, no how should Allegheny County or the satellite counties like Beaver, Westmoreland, southern Butler, northern Washington have any Single A schools. Riverview is an outlier because it is in toney Oakmont. But no way do the kids in Cornell have as good of a chance at education as they would if they were part of Moon. Or Sto-Rox if they were part of Montour. Leechburg out there should be part of Kiski. Clairton, part of TJ. Yes, even vaunted Aliquippa part of Hopewell etc......

Politically, especially with the climate of today, this will never happen.

 

[PeetWeet1]

Which is why I am for another round of consolidation/mergers like happened in PA in the 60's. Which was interesting because that was the height of the boomer generation and growing enrollments not declining. Anyways, again I understand when you are in Elk or Cameron county, there is little options. You can only travel so far. But no way, no how should Allegheny County or the satellite counties like Beaver, Westmoreland, southern Butler, northern Washington have any Single A schools. Riverview is an outlier because it is in toney Oakmont. But no way do the kids in Cornell have as good of a chance at education as they would if they were part of Moon. Or Sto-Rox if they were part of Montour. Leechburg out there should be part of Kiski. Clairton, part of TJ. Yes, even vaunted Aliquippa part of Hopewell etc......

Politically, especially with the climate of today, this will never happen.

https://gis.penndot.gov/BPR_PDF_FILES/MAPS/Education/Statewide_IU_and_Districts_web_map.pdf

I say merge every IU into a district and be done with it.

Of course, that isn’t what the people want. They pretend to want a public school system, but really want is for housing prices to weed out undesirables and are picking their home to gain entrance into what a private system.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

https://gis.penndot.gov/BPR_PDF_FILES/MAPS/Education/Statewide_IU_and_Districts_web_map.pdf

I say merge every IU into a district and be done with it.

Of course, that isn’t what the people want. They pretend to want a public school system, but really want is for housing prices to weed out undesirables and are picking their home to gain entrance into what a private system.

Well said

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I agree parents > students > admin/ teachers.

However, bad admin can kill a school. Even ‘wealthy’ Catholic ones. Rural schools often have a triple whammy - bad parents, low pay, and not enough students. The only bad academic place for a really good student is a tiny, general population, school. Give me New Castle over the surrounding schools except Neshannock, maybe.

I’m partial to Shenango - but since I literally lived a block from the city line your point is valid

 

[Parkview57]

better qualifications

Herein lies a problem. Teaching is an "art" all the degrees in the world don't make one a better teacher or administrator if you have no talent. Many a great teacher loved their craft and worked hard, enjoyed the students and changed many lives, many took on many other extra-curricular jobs and although they fulfilled there education requirements had little time to move on into mickey mouse higher education masters or Ed.d programs or whatever they are called. Many lousy teachers saw a need to get away from kids because they couldn't stand/motive/teach them, saw bigger money,etc. and moved on to become lousy administrators with tons of "qualifications".

Yes, a good school administrator makes a big difference

I have worked for many people with college degrees, engineers, business, etc., I have seen little connection to their educational "qualifications" and job performance. In fact the best ones actually took their own qualifications with a grain of salt and communicated with the workers about the job at hand before putting a plan together, those relying on a diploma, hanging behind their desk usually meant a lot of misery for the guys "down in the ditch"

Just one uneducated opinion.

 

[Mikefln]

Which is why I am for another round of consolidation/mergers like happened in PA in the 60's. Which was interesting because that was the height of the boomer generation and growing enrollments not declining. Anyways, again I understand when you are in Elk or Cameron county, there is little options. You can only travel so far. But no way, no how should Allegheny County or the satellite counties like Beaver, Westmoreland, southern Butler, northern Washington have any Single A schools. Riverview is an outlier because it is in toney Oakmont. But no way do the kids in Cornell have as good of a chance at education as they would if they were part of Moon. Or Sto-Rox if they were part of Montour. Leechburg out there should be part of Kiski. Clairton, part of TJ. Yes, even vaunted Aliquippa part of Hopewell etc......

Politically, especially with the climate of today, this will never happen.

The problem with what you say is the assumption that the Montuors don't want Sto-Rox or Moon doesn't want Cornell, etc. While that is true, the reverse is true too, those small towns don't want to be apart of their "Big Brother." Just because something makes sense on paper doesn't mean it makes sense in reality if no one wants it.

 

[Mikefln]

I’m partial to Shenango - but since I literally lived a block from the city line your point is valid

With Fourbrush Custard Stand, i will always be partial to Shenango, i would also be 500 lbs if I lived that close to it too.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

If you think the football coach should be a priority for the superintendent I’d say our priorities are very different
Or are you sugggesting the school would be fine despite changing administration ?
Perhaps the great school isn’t based on the school itself ?

I asked a few simple questions, you fail to answer. Funny you mention the superintendent priority because seems he made it his priority to remove the football coach for no reason.

Great schools are based on a number of factors, including the peers they compete and learn with on a daily basis. Parents, students, peers, teachers, administration, curriculum all matter.

 

[jivecat]

If it's free...it's for me.....except for public school.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Herein lies a problem. Teaching is an "art" all the degrees in the world don't make one a better teacher or administrator if you have no talent. Many a great teacher loved their craft and worked hard, enjoyed the students and changed many lives, many took on many other extra-curricular jobs and although they fulfilled there education requirements had little time to move on into mickey mouse higher education masters or Ed.d programs or whatever they are called. Many lousy teachers saw a need to get away from kids because they couldn't stand/motive/teach them, saw bigger money,etc. and moved on to become lousy administrators with tons of "qualifications".

Yes, a good school administrator makes a big difference

I have worked for many people with college degrees, engineers, business, etc., I have seen little connection to their educational "qualifications" and job performance. In fact the best ones actually took their own qualifications with a grain of salt and communicated with the workers about the job at hand before putting a plan together, those relying on a diploma, hanging behind their desk usually meant a lot of misery for the guys "down in the ditch"

Just one uneducated opinion.

I disagree. Plenty of people go to college for a teaching degree and learn how to do the job well. Just like many other jobs.

 

[Mikefln]

I disagree. Plenty of people go to college for a teaching degree and learn how to do the job well. Just like many other jobs.

The flip side is true also. Many go to college and still don't know how to do the job. Facts of life, some people get into professions they have no business being in.

 

[HailtoPitt]

The flip side is true also. Many go to college and still don't know how to do the job. Facts of life, some people get into professions they have no business being in.

That's true, but too many people view teachers as something other then professionals.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I asked a few simple questions, you fail to answer. Funny you mention the superintendent priority because seems he made it his priority to remove the football coach for no reason.

Great schools are based on a number of factors, including the peers they compete and learn with on a daily basis. Parents, students, peers, teachers, administration, curriculum all matter.

I didn’t see your questions
It’s your contention say math is taught better at Pine Richland than say Butler ?
Same with science and English ?

you just said it’s a great school because of factors directed by the superintendent .
So the answer seems to be it’s harder to find a good one than a good football coach
Seems you answered your own question

unless you perhaps don’t believe that teachers c adminis, and curriculum make the school after all?
Perhaps it’s just the rationalization ?
It’s okay to be upset the coach wasn’t retained

i’m laughing at the throw the baby out with the bath water approach from you - while pretending it’s related to the quality of the school

 

[FallingRun84]

That's true, but too many people view teachers as something other then professionals.

I would say that is self inflicted. The teachers decide to be represented by a union, as opposed to forming a Professional Association like the Bar Association, or AICPA. The union route has served many well, but it has cost them the opportunity to be consider a true Professional, and prohibits the best of the best educators from acheiving the earning power that they could in their chosse profession.

 

[Parkview57]

I disagree. Plenty of people go to college for a teaching degree and learn how to do the job well

I am not sure what you are disagreeing about, I never in any way implied anything contrary to your statement.

I was questioning the concept of : "better qualifications"= "better teachers" when more/higher level degrees means "better qualifications".

 

[HailtoPitt]

I am not sure what you are disagreeing about, I never in any way implied anything contrary to your statement.

I was questioning the concept of : "better qualifications"= "better teachers" when more/higher level degrees means "better qualifications".

Well, I doubt you would suggest an MD degree doesn't mean better doctor then a non degreed individual. But for teachers... It doesn't matter? Come on.

The problem is too many people have been programmed to think of teachers as the enemy. Here's a tip. They aren't

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Teachers in private schools earn less.

This is true.

 

[Parkview57]

Well, I doubt you would suggest an MD degree doesn't mean better doctor then a non degreed individual. But for teachers... It doesn't matter? Come on.

You stated:

I also have to disagree on outcomes being unchanged if you swapped administrators, teachers and students. The better, more qualified administrators and the better teachers are centered in the better schools because they can offer better pay for better qualifications

C'mon is right, you were comparing teachers in different school districts, not people off the street...

 

[Parkview57]

The problem is too many people have been programmed to think of teachers as the enemy. Here's a tip. They aren't

Except for maybe the ones on these 30 pages:
Click here

 

[FallingRun84]

This is true.

It is true, but I am unsure what the point is. There are many examples of highly educated, talented people that use their talents other than to maximize income. Talanted lawyers from prestigious law schools who become public defenders. Medical Doctors who serve small communities, or third world countries. I am talking about the industry as a whole. I agree many, if not most, will not see teachers as a Profession because they have not choosen to organize as a Profession. Self regulating, professional standards, put the interest of the community at large before their own interest.

 

[Mikefln]

That's true, but too many people view teachers as something other then professionals.

Kind of like bad cops make all cops look bad and something other then professionals. Again, facts of life that the few rotten apples ruin it for all. For whatever reason, human nature is to focus on the negative more than the positive, and only have careful examination do people see past the bad.

 

[Mikefln]

It is true, but I am unsure what the point is. There are many examples of highly educated, talented people that use their talents other than to maximize income. Talanted lawyers from prestigious law schools who become public defenders. Medical Doctors who serve small communities, or third world countries. I am talking about the industry as a whole. I agree many, if not most, will not see trachers as a Profession because they have not choosen to organize as a Profession. Self regulating, professional standards, put the interest of the community at large before their own interest.

My Senior year English teach was making more at Montour then he was at Canevin, but he left Montour after 2 years because he did not like the environment (never expanded more than that, so not sure if that meant the kids or the administration) but he was the teacher of the year one of the 2 years he was at Montour. While it might not be the norm, people do what you state more than people realize.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I didn’t see your questions
It’s your contention say math is taught better at Pine Richland than say Butler ?
Same with science and English ?

you just said it’s a great school because of factors directed by the superintendent .
So the answer seems to be it’s harder to find a good one than a good football coach
Seems you answered your own question

unless you perhaps don’t believe that teachers c adminis, and curriculum make the school after all?
Perhaps it’s just the rationalization ?
It’s okay to be upset the coach wasn’t retained

i’m laughing at the throw the baby out with the bath water approach from you - while pretending it’s related to the quality of the school

It's not my contention and I've never said that. I honestly don't know where you're coming from anymore. You're all over the map. Frankly, I don't give a shit about Butler or PPS, and honestly I don't pay much attention to them either. I also don't care what education your kids get at PPS as that's your business. My kids go to PR, so that's my concern.

I don't want an administration who feels the need to go on a witch hunt to remove a coach. One that doesn't have the balls to do it straight up so they get dirty and fabricate BS, then hand a promotion to the henchman. It's that simple. We're 14 pages in and you still can't comprehend this simple notion.

 

[Mikefln]

i’m laughing at the throw the baby out with the bath water approach from you - while pretending it’s related to the quality of the school

Not speaking for Gunga, but i think you are missing the point. All they had to do was say "we are not going to re-new his contract" People would have been mad, but it is what it is. The moment they started trying to fabricate a culture of hazing, to the point that the person who they state is the victim is suing the district because it is false, this became a whole new matter. At the very least it is cowardly at worst it is abuse of power, and I would not want my kid to view that and think that is how you handle things when you are in charge, no matter how commonplace "leaders" do that today.

​

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Not speaking for Gunga, but i think you are missing the point. All they had to do was say "we are not going to re-new his contract" People would have been mad, but it is what it is. The moment they started trying to fabricate a culture of hazing, to the point that the person who they state is the victim is suing the district because it is false, this became a whole new matter. At the very least it is cowardly at worst it is abuse of power, and I would not want my kid to view that and think that is how you handle things when you are in charge, no matter how commonplace "leaders" do that today.

​

The best part is they created this potential lawsuit.

Without going into details, I'm 99.99% certain the issues this kid was dealing with had absolutely nothing to do with the football team or coach. I'll also venture the callout of Principal Bowman by Kasper in the "meeting", that they referenced in the letter, had something to do with this. It wasn't football related. It was school related and there was other stuff going on.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Except for maybe the ones on these 30 pages:
Click here

Your programing appears complete. Congrats.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Not speaking for Gunga, but i think you are missing the point. All they had to do was say "we are not going to re-new his contract" People would have been mad, but it is what it is. The moment they started trying to fabricate a culture of hazing, to the point that the person who they state is the victim is suing the district because it is false, this became a whole new matter. At the very least it is cowardly at worst it is abuse of power, and I would not want my kid to view that and think that is how you handle things when you are in charge, no matter how commonplace "leaders" do that today.

​

They didn’t fabricate anything
At worst they specifically said they aren’t going to discuss the matter in the wake of rumors and innuendo .
Then the coach made it a public matter .

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Dunlap reporting the PR principal has resigned.

 

[Mikefln]

They didn’t fabricate anything
At worst they specifically said they aren’t going to discuss the matter in the wake of rumors and innuendo .
Then the coach made it a public matter .

Its a weird take to say they didn't fabricate anything, when their victim has stated to news sources that they are suing them. It doesn't matter who let the world know why he wasn't renewed, the fact is that was the reason given. No one, even the proposed victim collaborates the allegation. To keep defending the administration in situation is strange to me. Like you mentioned, all they had to do was not renew, but they decided to go on a witch hunt.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Dunlap reporting the PR principal has resigned.

My oldest just heard the same from a friend whose mother would likely know.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I comprehend it just fine
They no commented on the matter
The coach made it public
They acknowledged the letter
You think they are wrong for not renewing him

Of course they are wrong for not renewing him without a valid reason. It's incompetence. He's the best coach they've ever had and one of the best (if not the best) in the WPIAL.

The way they went about is even worse, just slimy. I don't support incompetence and reprehensible behavior. Apparently you have no problem with it.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

I agree with you on most (all) of what you said. I wasn't implying that better qualifications meant ONLY better education. Usually when I say better qualifications, I'm referring to experience and most importantly results. I don't give a rat's ass if some teacher or administrator has 3 Ph.D's. If he or she gets results and motivates kids to learn, that's the best qualification they could possibly have.

The greatest teacher in the world isn’t going to get good test results if he/she is teaching 8th grade English and 1/2 the class is reading at a 5th grade level or below.

 

[USN_Panther]

Of course they are wrong for not renewing him without a valid reason. It's incompetence. He's the best coach they've ever had and one of the best (if not the best) in the WPIAL.

The way they went about is even worse, just slimy. I don't support incompetence and reprehensible behavior. Apparently you have no problem with it.

I fired a coach once. A full-time ice hockey coach (well getting paid full time money while pretty much working part-time). There was a no-cause bi-directional out-clause in the contract, with a notice period.

We decided to terminate the contract because financial projections showed we couldn't afford it and would bankrupt the club by continuing in that arrangement.

The club had a sweet deal going for a while where there was a verbal agreement that the rink would pay 40%, and the senior men's team would pay 20% of the cost. All thought that an increase in players would bring in the money to cover all of this. The rink expected the coach to coach the very beginners players in a program run by the rink. The coach delegated that to someone else (unpaid) who didn't always turn up, and that volunteer was being investigated for grooming young players and was a suspected (but not confirmed thank goodness--think we intervened in time) pedophile. Well, the rink couldn't afford to continue to pay, nor did they want to. They terminated the verbal agreement (that at that point several years after the agreement, one party involved had died, and the other couldn't remember the specifics other than the dollar figure!).

The senior men's team had a change in management, and wanted to go in a different direction for coaching. That and they never had the money to pay in the first place and owed for two past seasons.

And the player numbers that were supposed to increase to offset the cost were declining. There were bullying concerns and the board basically spent more than half of each meeting managing complaints either directed at the coach or generated by the coach. The coach wanted to know why we didn't raise more money to cover his cost, and I flat out told him it was because we spent all of our time dealing with his drama.

So the only agreement in writing was with the club having to pay the full freight of the cost, and with the outside funding not materialising, we had to let him go. I met with him to see if we could agree to reduce to part time pay per hour type of arrangement. That was when I was told he would be suing me and the club and had been advised that we were breaking employment law and would be held liable. I took that to mean there was no room to negotiate. The board agreed to terminate the agreement without cause and gave notice as required in the contract. There would have been plenty of "cause" to go around, but cause is contestable. No cause is not contestable. And we really didn't have the money.

This guy tried to salt the earth on the way out. He lied to many and he spoke freely, but the club could not rebut any of it due to the confidentiality clause in the contract. People were defending him against non-existent allegations as he was spreading this misinformation. The yearly financial reports were public information and posted on the web as per law. Hell, we posted our meeting minutes on our website. The financial concerns were clearly in there. Very few people can actually understand the difference between assets, receivables, and cash. We looked OK on paper, but had receivables that just weren't going to materialize. The national federation owed us $40k, and they didn't have the money at the time. The membership called a special meeting and in this meeting a certain member misrepresented the financial situation and accused the board and specifically the treasurer of embezzling the money. He wanted the club to sue the rink and the senior men's team for the money they did not have, and for terminating the verbal contract that nobody could even remember the specifics.

So I guess the short version and the point of this is that in such matters, one party tends to be free to control the information flow while the other party is required by contract or law to not comment on the situation. The PR board had their reasons. Appropriate or not, they elected to not renew the contract. EK made their letter public. PR cannot really say much. So EK controls the public narrative, but there may be information that we don't know.

When I look back at the coaching firing debacle I went through I realize that I was significantly hindered by not being able to get some control of that narrative. The board could not ever comment on the situation. We completely took the high ground and got ground into dust for doing so. In retrospect, another approach could have been to place some leaks out there that there was an ongoing investigation into a pedophile coach. That would have made things so much easier, but really would have caused long lasting damage to the coach and to the club. I actually liked that coach. My son is a better hockey player because of him.

But when things become unworkable, sometimes you take one for the team. The PR admins seem to be doing this. The full truth will probably not come out for a while. I doubt they didn't renew him solely based on winning big. Angry parent? Perhaps. It happens.

Funny thing is that as PR admins drop, EK might be the only one left standing.