Tournament expansion

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I just had to look it up and watched condensed highlights. UConn won. I’m not sure what was special about it. Just another tourney game that I didn’t remember.

i think Duke STB in the stretch and uconn won. both were two seeds. yeah, wouldnt call it epic either to be honest.

pitt79 bringing up the gtown / nova game in 85, no one will argue that wasnt legendary..

 

[Pitt79]

i posted a link with the top 25 greatest NCAA tournament moments in an above post. it's in there, # 17. check it out..

The 25 best Final Four moments

The NCAA Tournament Final Four has offered plenty of lasting memories. Some more prominent than others. While we know there are more to be made, it's always fun to look back.

www.yardbarker.com

That's just BEST FINAL 4 moments, not the tournament as a whole.

 

[Pitt79]

i think Duke STB in the stretch and uconn won. both were two seeds. yeah, wouldnt call it epic either to be honest.

pitt79 bringing up the gtown / nova game in 85, no one will argue that wasnt legendary..

Gtown/Nova, that was legendary for sure, probably the single most memorable NCAAT game in history. I agree.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Gtown/Nova, that was legendary for sure, probably the single most memorable NCAAT game in history. I agree.

especially since one of the mcclain brothers was all coked up and doesnt even remember the game. and still played well.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

especially since one of the mcclain brothers was all coked up and doesnt even remember the game. and still played well.

I remember it. It was one of the few games in any sport where you remember where you were when it happened. The same goes for the Laettner last second heroic vs Kentucky. Or dare I say Scottie Reynolds, or Nasir Robinson or Barry Goheen.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

FDU was the largest point spread upset in NCAA Tournament history. The game will go down as an all-timer.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I remember it. It was one of the few games in any sport where you remember where you were when it happened. The same goes for the Laettner last second heroic vs Kentucky. Or dare I say Scottie Reynolds, or Nasir Robinson or Barry Goheen.

there is something special when an athlete does copious amounts of drugs and still excels in a game. Dock ellis, gary mcClain, oilcan boyd, hollywood Henderson.

you want a true underdog story, that's what we should embrace..

 

[Ski11585]

Its bad players and flopping relentlessly so yea, I'll give you that. But the tournament is this magical thing. No one remembers this Duke/UConn game that you might even be making up. If there's 10 games in NCAAT history that people can name 20 or 30 years from now, UMBC and FDU are on the list. Not because it was high level basketball. Because of the magnitude of a 16 beating a 1.

For someone who claims to know college basketball as well as you do, I think its hilarious that you claim I'm making up one of the best final four games ever.

Keep being you, SMF.

 

[Ski11585]

Because I'm a nice guy:

 

[Chairman Moe]

Returning for a moment to the OP's topic ...

1) I like rewarding the conference regular season winner(s) with an auto NCAAT bid rather than the team who wins the conference tournament. A conference tournament winner could be considered for a bid but not guaranteed one

2) Despite all of the NET, RPI, Ken-Pom or any other metric out there, a large consideration should be placed on how an at-large team is playing over the past 10 or so games

3) I think a 64-team tournament is plenty. The play-in games maybe could be expanded. For example, have play-in games for all of the 15 and 16 seeds. 16 teams for 8 spots

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Was there a tourney expansion thread somewhere? If so I send apologies…but here is my SMF style idea for expansion (because it’s inevitably coming).

I hate the idea of expansion because it devalues the season when the 10th place Big 12 school gets in, or a 6-14 tOSU gets in, or a UNC with 1 quad 1 win gets in.

The reason why the selection process and NET suck is because the NCAA wants to place more value in the OOC schedules so mid and low majors don’t get punished. Nov/Dec is their only chance to build a resume. That’s what the Jerry Palms of the world tell us. So if there are 26 or so one bid leagues, give those leagues a 2nd auto bid (regular season champ or tourney runner-up). That gives the smaller schools an additional chance of reaching the tourney, and there can be less emphasis placed on November performance for the P6 teams. A 2nd auto bid per league also places more value in the P6 conference seasons as well (regular season champ can get auto bid). Additionally, this reduces the likelihood of bid stealers, so good teams like Pitt will be in less danger of getting knocked out by a tourney winner from the A10 as an example.

Eliminating the first 4 and adding those 4 teams to the 26 or so newly created auto bids, and adding 2 more at large bids expands the tourney to 96 teams, and an additional round of 16 games that can be slotted in 4 games per region.

Done. More money for the NCAA and an extra round of viewership for the fans.

Here's the problem, or, OK, two problems with your plan. One, the big schools would never, ever agree to it. Why would they? They aren't going to be in favor of expanding the tournament unless there is something in it for them. And creating 26 new bids for non-P6 schools isn't for them.

And two, the other people who won't be for that, even a little bit, is the people who are actually paying the money. You go to CBS and Turner with that plan and when they are done laughing at you they are going to tell you sure, you want to play all those extra games between Youngstown State and Howard, sure go right ahead. But they aren't paying you one dollar more for that. Because why would they? No one is watching those games.

If you want some evidence of that, back when they first expanded the field from 64 it didn't go to 68 with a first four, it was just one extra game. They played that game for a decade, and they were so memorable that pretty much no one even remembers that they happened. So when they added another auto bid, rather than just continue on with that and add another game between the bottom teams, the compromise to get the television people interested was four more at large bids, so that they could play two games between schools that people had heard of before in addition to the two games that no one cares about.

 

[Pitt79]

FDU was the largest point spread upset in NCAA Tournament history. The game will go down as an all-timer.

That too, plus they lost their conference championship game and only went to the NCAAs on a technicality to the 16 seed play-in game and lost to Pitt by 22.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

For someone who claims to know college basketball as well as you do, I think its hilarious that you claim I'm making up one of the best final four games ever.

Keep being you, SMF.

I remember none of it and neither does anyone else. People will remember FDU and UMBC, not some rando Final Four game. Here's how I had to try to remember it.

1. How good was Pitt in 2004?
2. Was this one of those legendary UConn teams Pitt played?
3. Which generation of players of UConn would have been in 2004. Off the top of my head, I'd say Okafor and Gordon.
4. For Duke I can throw out a bunch of names but cant remember anyone on that specific team? Battier?

Those games/eras run together. You arent going to be watching the NCAAT in 2045 and they talk about the 2004 Duke/UConn game but FDU and UMBC will be talkes about.

 

[Ski11585]

I remember none of it and neither does anyone else. People will remember FDU and UMBC, not some rando Final Four game. Here's how I had to try to remember it.

1. How good was Pitt in 2004?
2. Was this one of those legendary UConn teams Pitt played?
3. Which generation of players of UConn would have been in 2004. Off the top of my head, I'd say Okafor and Gordon.
4. For Duke I can throw out a bunch of names but cant remember anyone on that specific team? Battier?

Those games/eras run together. You arent going to be watching the NCAAT in 2045 and they talk about the 2004 Duke/UConn game but FDU and UMBC will be talkes about.

Nobody cares about UMBC. It’s a cute footnote that mattered for about six minutes. Shame you don’t really know basketball.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Nobody cares about UMBC. It’s a cute footnote that mattered for about six minutes. Shame you don’t really know basketball.

I didn't say people care about UMBC. But more people will remember that and the FDU game than your Duke/UConn game. People remember all-time upsets.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Here's the problem, or, OK, two problems with your plan. One, the big schools would never, ever agree to it. Why would they? They aren't going to be in favor of expanding the tournament unless there is something in it for them. And creating 26 new bids for non-P6 schools isn't for them.

And two, the other people who won't be for that, even a little bit, is the people who are actually paying the money. You go to CBS and Turner with that plan and when they are done laughing at you they are going to tell you sure, you want to play all those extra games between Youngstown State and Howard, sure go right ahead. But they aren't paying you one dollar more for that. Because why would they? No one is watching those games.

If you want some evidence of that, back when they first expanded the field from 64 it didn't go to 68 with a first four, it was just one extra game. They played that game for a decade, and they were so memorable that pretty much no one even remembers that they happened. So when they added another auto bid, rather than just continue on with that and add another game between the bottom teams, the compromise to get the television people interested was four more at large bids, so that they could play two games between schools that people had heard of before in addition to the two games that no one cares about.

I wouldn’t suggest all those 1st round games be between mid and low majors. No one would watch. But adding another round that includes the last of the at larges mixed in would generate more money.

I realize coaches and I’ve said for their security would only want expansion that includes more at large opportunities that give them more job security. But a significant jump in P5 at large team is not good for the game IMO. Add a few to appease them, sure. Add another round that increases the take for everyone.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I realize coaches and I’ve said for their security would only want expansion that includes more at large opportunities that give them more job security. But a significant jump in P5 at large team is not good for the game IMO. Add a few to appease them, sure. Add another round that increases the take for everyone.

I get what you are saying. But a significant jump in the number of teams that no one cares about doesn't help. Other than those coaches that can say they made the NCAA tournament even though they couldn't win the NEC championship.

CBS and Turner will pay more to get a game or two with North Carolina or Wisconsin playing. They aren't going to pay more for more games between Texas A&M - Corpus Christi and and Southeast Missouri State. Or, really, teams worse than them.