O.T. Question For Steelers Fans

[Fk_Pitt]

My thing is that he doesn't even compare favorably to guys like Geno Smith/Sam Howe/Will Levis/etc. when it comes to the eye test. To be fair, I'm talking about those guys' highlight plays, when it comes to chucking the ball downfield for a great throw. But that's the problem - Kenny Pickett was never going to be that, so he was always going to have to succeed with pinpoint accuracy and the ability to read the field much better than those guys. And not only has he not been elite in either of those facets; he's actually been poor in them. So there just isn't anything for him to hang his hat on, honestly.

Plus, defenses have changed and gotten so confusing that you almost need a guy with elite tangibles anymore to make a few playground plays here and there... unless you have all the offensive pieces in place, which few teams do.

I hear ya. But we keep getting told that he has those facets to his game. So I will reserve judgement until he has a real offense and a fraction more of a second of interior pass protection. And yeah I’m with you on the playground piece. I don’t see it, which is why I can’t see him being an elite QB in the league like the guys mentioned here. But I still hold out hope that he can be a QB that will win you games in this league.

And back to Pickens, I think too many people see what he can do when the ball is thrown his way. But people don’t see or consider what he doesn’t do the rest of time and without the ball which prevent him from getting more targets.

 

[Pitt79]

there are about 6 really good QBs in the league, that's it. just go buy one, it's that easy huh?

its just an endless commodity out there and you just go buy one. go to the QB store, bring your credit card and go get one. what an insightful thought, just hope other NFL Gms dont read these boards or they'll steal your idea.

Not saying it's easy, just saying it should be priority one. If an opportunity arises go get a better QB, it wouldn't be hard at all to get a better QB than we have now. And I have no problem with trying and failing, I'd rather see that than hear "it's too risky" then have to watch Kenny throw 8 TD passes in 17 games.

 

[joeydavid]

I mean - but who even are those type of guys ?
Boyd is an Alan Robinson replacement at best.
He’ll make $10mil a year in his next deal . Is that actually a value add ?

Boyd is an upgrade over DJ (at a minimum they are a wash) let alone Robinson. Robinson was a wasted roster spot.

If Boyd is your #3 and they still need draft a true #1.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Boyd is an upgrade over DJ (at a minimum they are a wash) let alone Robinson. Robinson was a wasted roster spot.

If Boyd is your #3 and they still need draft a true #1.

No way Boyd is an upgrade over Diontae Johnson. Their skillsets aren't even close.

 

[joeydavid]

My thing is that he doesn't even compare favorably to guys like Geno Smith/Sam Howe/Will Levis/etc. when it comes to the eye test. To be fair, I'm talking about those guys' highlight plays, when it comes to chucking the ball downfield for a great throw. But that's the problem - Kenny Pickett was never going to be that, so he was always going to have to succeed with pinpoint accuracy and the ability to read the field much better than those guys. And not only has he not been elite in either of those facets; he's actually been poor in them. So there just isn't anything for him to hang his hat on, honestly.

Plus, defenses have changed and gotten so confusing that you almost need a guy with elite tangibles anymore to make a few playground plays here and there... unless you have all the offensive pieces in place, which few teams do.

That's not an universal opinion at this point. The 33rd team experts have a pretty high opinion of Pickett's tape. They say he's exactly what NFL head coaches want in a QB. Takes what's there, doesn't turn the ball over and move out of structure.

The problems in their analysis was 1. Canada's play calling and 2. Lack of talent around him.

They still need to address the OLine TE and WR.

Assuming their analysis of play calling is solid- Smith should be a typical average OC. Instead of fighting an up hill battle with the 32rd best play caller.

Ranking Every NFL Offensive Play-Caller Entering 2024 Offseason

NFL analyst Derrik Klassen ranks all 32 NFL play-callers heading into the 2024 offseason, starting with the 49ers Kyle Shanahan.

www.the33rdteam.com

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

No way Boyd is an upgrade over Diontae Johnson. Their skillsets aren't even close.

i was one of the biggest DJ supporters for a long time, pretty much thru most of last year. man im ready to move on.

I almost think boyd, even at this point in his career, gives you just as much production as DJ. Dionte just doesnt have it man, is a dime a dozen WR in this league..

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

i was one of the biggest DJ supporters for a long time, pretty much thru most of last year. man im ready to move on.

I almost think boyd, even at this point in his career, gives you just as much production as DJ. Dionte just doesnt have it man, is a dime a dozen WR in this league..

Completely agree that Diontae is frustrating. But he is still quite talented, and a part of me wonders how easy it could have been spending the last 3-4 years in these offenses we've been trotting out.

He graded out as the most open receiver in football in 2022, and PFF (I get it - they're not some deity) had him as a 77.7 for 2023 and Boyd as a 59.5.

If you want to tell me we can be an overall better receiving corps by signing Boyd, trading Johnson, and hitting big on a receiver in the first two rounds then I'm willing to listen. But if we're talking about simply swapping Johnson for Boyd, no way. There's just so much more you can do with Johnson.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Completely agree that Diontae is frustrating. But he is still quite talented, and a part of me wonders how easy it could have been spending the last 3-4 years in these offenses we've been trotting out.

He graded out as the most open receiver in football in 2022, and PFF (I get it - they're not some deity) had him as a 77.7 for 2023 and Boyd as a 59.5.

If you want to tell me we can be an overall better receiving corps by signing Boyd, trading Johnson, and hitting big on a receiver in the first two rounds then I'm willing to listen. But if we're talking about simply swapping Johnson for Boyd, no way. There's just so much more you can do with Johnson.

he's a great route runner. i see him catch a quick slant and dude stops on a dime, cuts outside and gets another 10 yards (when he doesnt blow out his hammy doing it). i really think he's an elite route runner and i truly dont think his hands (aka drops) are nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

his running backwards is maddening. i dont know man, i love the idea of Boyd though in FA as our 3.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

he's a great route runner. i see him catch a quick slant and dude stops on a dime, cuts outside and gets another 10 yards (when he doesnt blow out his hammy doing it). i really think he's an elite route runner and i truly dont think his hands (aka drops) are nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

his running backwards is maddening. i dont know man,

Yeah, he's frustrating. But if Pickens and Boyd are your 1 and 2, you've got some problems. That's all I'm saying. You might as well go Wing T at that point.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Yeah, he's frustrating. But if Pickens and Boyd are your 1 and 2, you've got some problems. That's all I'm saying.

no arguments there. Boyd isnt a starting 1 or 2 now, still think he is a very high quality #3 in the right offense..

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

no arguments there. Boyd isnt a starting 1 or 2 now, still think he is a very high quality #3 in the right offense..

Yeah, Boyd is a better/more reliable 3 than Johnson is a 1 or 1A - no argument on that.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

That's not an universal opinion at this point. The 33rd team experts have a pretty high opinion of Pickett's tape. They say he's exactly what NFL head coaches want in a QB. Takes what's there, doesn't turn the ball over and move out of structure.

The problems in their analysis was 1. Canada's play calling and 2. Lack of talent around him.

They still need to address the OLine TE and WR.

Assuming their analysis of play calling is solid- Smith should be a typical average OC. Instead of fighting an up hill battle with the 32rd best play caller.

Ranking Every NFL Offensive Play-Caller Entering 2024 Offseason

NFL analyst Derrik Klassen ranks all 32 NFL play-callers heading into the 2024 offseason, starting with the 49ers Kyle Shanahan.

www.the33rdteam.com

This seems to be in line with what Adidi from the nfl network was saying. She’s been covering the NFL a long time, has a lot of contacts, and she said that a large handful of personnel guys throughout the league told her that Kenny Pickett is regarded as a quarterback that you can win with, and who can have a very good career if allowed to play in a real offense.

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

I definitely wouldn't trade Pickens but I hope PIT tries to trade Dionte. With one year left on his deal, the Steelers would save $10 million in cap space and could net a 2nd and a 5th.

No fifth-round pick for the Steelers in this draft.

Really? Oh wow that isn't a bad haul for a guy that was a third rounder.

 

[Usuallyunusual-partdeux]

Last year's first round picks:

Jaxon Smith-Njigba: 63 catches, 628 yards

Quentin Johnston: 38 catches, 431 yards

Zay Flowers: 77 catches, 858 yards

Jordan Addison: 70 catches, 911 yards


And none of those guys were in offenses that were getting national circus-like attention every week.

George Pickens: 63 catches, 1,140 yards

So when you combine his production with the uniqueness of his skill set, I think it's a no-brainer that he would fetch a 1st round pick. And probably more importantly than any of that is what is available in the draft this year. Most of the mocks I've seen seem to have Harrison Jr, Nabers, and Odunze pretty high... and then there is a drop-off.

This is a good point. I guess not all 1st round picks are equal. If it was a top 10 pick it's a no brainer, but also I assumed that if they got a earlier first they would use that pick on O Line and then use their 20th on a receiver to replace him, but there are holes in that hypothetical.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Boyd is an upgrade over DJ (at a minimum they are a wash) let alone Robinson. Robinson was a wasted roster spot.

If Boyd is your #3 and they still need draft a true #1.

He’s not
You’re out of your mind .
I mean if you somehow get someone to eat DJ’s last year of his contract -
Sure - but that’s very unlikely .

So let’s presume we sigh Boyd at a $10-13mil AAV because he’s not going to make less money -
So the money is essentially a wash if they’d cut DJ.
It’s not improving the dept and talent .
Boyd is a very good slot receiver because he’s the third best receiver on the bengals

 

[OH Pete]

I definitely wouldn't trade Pickens but I hope PIT tries to trade Dionte. With one year left on his deal, the Steelers would save $10 million in cap space and could net a 2nd and a 5th.

No fifth-round pick for the Steelers in this draft.

I could get on board with that. WR's is one position where rookies can contribute and sleepers are always found. Trade him and use the picks for 2 WR's. Oh, and sign Tyler Boyd.

 

[303vND]

No and No because he's not worth a first rounder. He has talent but he's lazy and has very little shake. That's why he's mostly going after 50-50 balls...can't beat DBs...especially those who press.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I'd bring in Russell Wilson. Not sure what it would cost. I know there are some out there who think it could be done for the vet minimum, but I think you'd have to offer him a multi-year deal because there are going to be a few bidders. So it depends what the guaranteed money would be, because I'm only interested in him if it's low. I wouldn't break the bank for Kirk Cousins. Fields.... mehhhh.

If a team is willing to pay you something like $39 million and take an $85 million salary cap hit just to get you to leave, that ought to tell you all you need to know about whether or not you should bring that guy in.

I mean if he'll sign a no guarantee, veteran minimum type of deal, so there is no downside at all if/when you cut him then sure, why not. But you can't pay a guy like that any sort of real money. And you can't guarantee him a dime. Because he is way more likely to be a complete failure than he is to be a competent starter.

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

If a team is willing to pay you something like $39 million and take an $85 million salary cap hit just to get you to leave, that ought to tell you all you need to know about whether or not you should bring that guy in.

I mean if he'll sign a no guarantee, veteran minimum type of deal, so there is no downside at all if/when you cut him then sure, why not. But you can't pay a guy like that any sort of real money. And you can't guarantee him a dime. Because he is way more likely to be a complete failure than he is to be a competent starter.

It was a bad situation for Russell in Denver. First year he was coached by a Hackett, so the odds were stacked right there.

Last year, Sean Payton just never seemed to mesh with Wilson. There was that five-game winning streak when DEN beat CLE, KC, BUF, GB and Minnesota and he threw 9 TDs and zero INTs.

I’m not sure Wilson’s ego will let him sign a contract that is team friendly. If he is willing then I hope PIT looks hard at signing him.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

BTW, the Stillers cut Mason Cole this afternoon.

Only question is what took so long.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

If a team is willing to pay you something like $39 million and take an $85 million salary cap hit just to get you to leave, that ought to tell you all you need to know about whether or not you should bring that guy in.

I mean if he'll sign a no guarantee, veteran minimum type of deal, so there is no downside at all if/when you cut him then sure, why not. But you can't pay a guy like that any sort of real money. And you can't guarantee him a dime. Because he is way more likely to be a complete failure than he is to be a competent starter.

He graded out better than anyone on our roster, despite being in a pretty tumultuous situation. Like I said, the guaranteed money has to be right. I'd much rather do this than make a splash move for Fields.

Also, if we're letting the actions of other teams form our opinions, well... we just chose to roll into the playoffs with a guy the entire open market didn't even want for the veteran minimum over Pickett, who was capable of playing. Neither tea leaves are ideal, but I'll take Wilson + Pickett, in the midnight hour, over Pickett and Tannehill or something.

 

[joeydavid]

He graded out better than anyone on our roster, despite being in a pretty tumultuous situation. Like I said, the guaranteed money has to be right. I'd much rather do this than make a splash move for Fields.

Fields isn't going to win you games. What's funny to me is the Bears will likely move Fields to draft another guy you can't win with.

 

[PittPharm2002]

No and No because he's not worth a first rounder. He has talent but he's lazy and has very little shake. That's why he's mostly going after 50-50 balls...can't beat DBs...especially those who press.

Except when we actually him on slants and he goes for 80 yards after 7 yard route for a TD

 

[PittPharm2002]

BTW, the Stillers cut Mason Cole this afternoon.

Only question is what took so long.

It was a bit of a surprise , to be honest .
He could be a good backup depth option .
The cap savings aren’t that big.
We must have another free agent or trade in the works ,
Plus starting a center - hopefully the guy from Oregon .

 

[PittPharm2002]

Fields isn't going to win you games. What's funny to me is the Bears will likely move Fields to draft another guy you can't win with.

Fields is a turnover machine who can’t read defenses or throw accurately consistently .

He’s a faster Mitch trubisky

 

[PittPharm2002]

He graded out better than anyone on our roster, despite being in a pretty tumultuous situation. Like I said, the guaranteed money has to be right. I'd much rather do this than make a splash move for Fields.

Also, if we're letting the actions of other teams form our opinions, well... we just chose to roll into the playoffs with a guy the entire open market didn't even want for the veteran minimum over Pickett, who was capable of playing. Neither tea leaves are ideal, but I'll take Wilson + Pickett, in the midnight hour, over Pickett and Tannehill or something.

We are going to sign a Minshew , tannehill , brissette type and it’s the right move .
Stillers won’t be trading for a franchise type qb.
Tom Brady isn’t walking through that door .

I’m a big fan of Russell Wilson , always have been - but he’s washed

 

[303vND]

Except when we actually him on slants and he goes for 80 yards after 7 yard route for a TD

Yeah like running a slant where both the DB and Safety misplay it is a great route. My daughter can run a slant in the weekend police league.

 

[HailtoPitt]

We will see how Picket does this season with a better OC. He had what, one full game after Canada was fired, and played very well in that game.

And I would trade either Pickens or Johnson for a first rounder. I feel like the two of them are both divas who will hurt more than help. And the new OC will cause them to be super divas without a bunch if splashy plays. Pickens needs to go to a team that is a SB contender and has established disciplined. Without that he is a distraction and a cancer. The problem is that I don't think any teams with a top 15 pick will make that trade, because there will be a group of WRs potentially availably who can be #1s. However, I could see a team like the Jets, whose window with Aaron Rodgers is closing fast, making that trade. They need an OL but going WR is the sexier thing to do. The Jets pick 10th, and it's possible Odunze or Bowers will be available.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

We are going to sign a Minshew , tannehill , brissette type and it’s the right move .
Stillers won’t be trading for a franchise type qb.
Tom Brady isn’t walking through that door .

I’m a big fan of Russell Wilson , always have been - but he’s washed

Eh, that's more of a 2022 conclusion, and then people just didn't pay attention last season. Obviously his production has dipped a bit, but compare last season to some others in his career:

Russell Wilson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Russell Wilson. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

I'd kick the tires on him. Tannehill would be depressing. You honestly want him over Wilson?

 

[Jeffburgh]

He’s by far our best WR
Its silliness

This.
The effectiveness of the offense hinges on him because he's the only guy on that side of the ball who can consistently make big plays.
You have to roll with him as long as you can.

 

[pittbb80]

Dude is a freak. Some of the catches he makes are inhuman. There’s no doubt. But his head and his route running are big question marks. So I wouldn’t be afraid to trade him. You might be blasted for doing so especially if he takes his game to another level. But I’d take that risk for a rookie receiver draft pick with two additional years of control and who is more level headed.

Yup. The question is how many passes are missed because he runs the wrong route. And moreover when the play breaks down he’s not a guy who works to get open if he’s not the primary receiver. That’s one of the things that made AB so good He loafs on plays where he’s not the primary

 

[BTisinDC]

This seems to be in line with what Adidi from the nfl network was saying. She’s been covering the NFL a long time, has a lot of contacts, and she said that a large handful of personnel guys throughout the league told her that Kenny Pickett is regarded as a quarterback that you can win with, and who can have a very good career if allowed to play in a real offense.

Do these personnel guys ever say there’s a player you can’t win with? Probably just me but I never seem to come across those reports.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Do these personnel guys ever say there’s a player you can’t win with? Probably just me but I never seem to come across those reports.

Well I don’t remember the exact verbiage when Adidi talked about these conversations…but essentially it was off the record conversations with people in the business who candidly expressed that Kenny is still regarded as a quality talent who just may need a real offense and talent to play in and with.

 

[joeydavid]

Do these personnel guys ever say there’s a player you can’t win with? Probably just me but I never seem to come across those reports.

Yeah, you can't win with a QB who has 41 turnovers in 31 games.

 

[Pitt79]

It was a bad situation for Russell in Denver. First year he was coached by a Hackett, so the odds were stacked right there.

Last year, Sean Payton just never seemed to mesh with Wilson. There was that five-game winning streak when DEN beat CLE, KC, BUF, GB and Minnesota and he threw 9 TDs and zero INTs.

I’m not sure Wilson’s ego will let him sign a contract that is team friendly. If he is willing then I hope PIT looks hard at signing him.

Tomlin is total garbage as an offensive coach, he doesn't care at all about scheming and playing offense at all beyond "protect the ball" and "run the clock" Ben just made it seem like they could play offense simply because he had hall of fame skills. So being coached by a Tomlin staff or Tomlin himself won't help any QB.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It was a bit of a surprise , to be honest .
He could be a good backup depth option .
The cap savings aren’t that big.

They won't have any problem finding a center who frequently snaps the ball into the quarterback's ankle and then gets completely plowed over by the defensive tackle for the $5 million they are saving on the cap for cutting Cole.

Let's hope for that money they can bring in someone who doesn't actually do those things.

 

[Burgh15]

Yes...if the plan was to package up 1st rounders to get a QB.

 

[pittbb80]

Tomlin is total garbage as an offensive coach, he doesn't care at all about scheming and playing offense at all beyond "protect the ball" and "run the clock" Ben just made it seem like they could play offense simply because he had hall of fame skills. So being coached by a Tomlin staff or Tomlin himself won't help any QB.

Ben could improvise better than most and keep plays alive. His receivers knew that and worked to get open even when they were not the primary. AB was especially good at it.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Tomlin is total garbage as an offensive coach, he doesn't care at all about scheming and playing offense at all beyond "protect the ball" and "run the clock" Ben just made it seem like they could play offense simply because he had hall of fame skills. So being coached by a Tomlin staff or Tomlin himself won't help any QB.

Well he is not an "offensive coach". He is not coaching the offense, the QB or calling or designing the plays. So not sure what your point is.

 

[Pitt79]

Well he is not an "offensive coach". He is not coaching the offense, the QB or calling or designing the plays. So not sure what your point is.

It would be better if the head coach was offense first in mindset, it's an offensive league, makes sense to put your money where the league and TV wants it, rules are always tweaked to help who? THE OFFENSE, the league wants the offense to win most of the time, they don't want the Steel Curtain winning games 10-7, they won't promote a system or rules to help defense oriented teams.