No...that wasn't the point of the discussion. The point was that some think Pickens would garner you a first rounder. I disagreed because I said he has no shake and is lazy. Keep up!
O.T. Question For Steelers Fans
- Thread starter Usuallyunusual-partdeux
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My point is this thread has nothing to do with him and some how the conversation swung back to it. I so could care less about this crap, you can't turn on a radio or TV in Pittsburgh without being absorbed with it.
i think NFL GMs and HCs value First Rd'ers so much because you get a truly good player (most of the time) who will be under a rookie contract for 4 years..
So it's not apples to apples, Pickens for a first rounder, you haved to weigh in that he only has 2 years left when your first rounder has 4. That's huge in this day and age of a salary cap..
Don't disagree with this - solid point. But if he was that dynamic then you the counter is that you have him with 2 years left and then you can franchise tag him.
That's true but the positive side is that: 1) the mystery box has been opened and it's (mostly) good; and b) you still get 2 years of cheap control and the franchise.
The Dolphins and Eagles both traded a late 1st just for the chance to give a mega-WR an extension. Pickens isn't nearly as good as Tyreek Hill or AJ Brown, but is he better than a WR that's going to go pick 22-32 this year? Someone like Troy Franklin, Brian Thomas, Jr., or Xavier Worthy? Yeah there's a pretty good chance he is.
You know what else counts? All the targets he doesn’t get because he doesn’t run good routes and he takes plays off. Dude could have had 80 catches. He didn’t. He could have had 100. He didn’t. And if he was elite and his QB/OC was elite, he’d have 115 catches. Neither he or his QB are. Deal with it.
Separation can be a double edge sword. It's not all on the receiver. If the qb stares down a receiver or as we've seen with Kenny, cuts the field in half with roll outs, it will effect the separation. That's not to say Pickens runs good routes or is without blame.
He'd have another 20 catches if they had a real QB. He may not be elite, but he is very good, while his QBs rank as subpar or worse.
Why do you give him a pass for his shortcomings in his development but you don’t give Pickett the same pass? Pickett had a firm directive to just manage a game and to not turn the ball over and put the ball into small windows. Did George have a directive to take off plays and run bad routes? Your hypocrisy is massive here, 79.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
He's not the only one. I find that any mention of the offense that happens just about anywhere always turns into a weird anti-Pickett thing. I've never seen a player obsessed over the way Pickett is on the socials.
Because even as is, with all his shortcomings, he's still often impactful on the field. We don't know that Kenny had that directive or if he's just afraid and not confident to pull the trigger.
And he’s often not impactful. It goes both ways.
And I don’t know what rock you live under and maybe it’s because you’re down there in ellicott city…but it’s pretty clear to anyone with a pulse what went on here under Canada and Tomlin.
I’ll going to go out on a limb and say that Kenny will be somewhere between 12-20 among NFL QBs next year, playing under center, using play action, with better interior pass protection and within the combines of a real NFL offense and not a Friday night offense. I realize this isn’t good enough for you because you expect him to be Mahomes or Allen, but I think it’s a reasonable expectation for reasonable people. And if I’m wrong, I’ll own it. It won’t be the first time I was wrong. I was reminded last night by a friend that I didn’t think Erling Haaland was going to be a superstar playing in England. He had 5 friggin goals in an FA Cup match yesterday. Dude is on his way to being the biggest and most marketable athlete in the world. Lol.
He is a cornucopia of ingredients that are inevitably going to lead to debate.
Pitt guy... check. And I'm not just talking about the % of the fan base who are WVU and PSU fans, but there are also going to be some on heightened paranoia that he'll get a pass simply for being from Pitt.
First round pick... check. Some people really get attached to their teams' 1st round picks and tend to only see the good in them. Lots of Bears fans were defending Trubisky when we got him and saying that his lack of success wasn't his own fault. On the other hand, many people have higher expectations for 1st round picks, which makes them harsher critics. And this is exacerbated in Pickett's case, because there is debate as to whether or not he would have even been a 1st round pick in most years.
Style of play... check. He doesn't do anything obviously stupid like throw costly interceptions, and he has orchestrated some successful late drives. On the flip side, he also doesn't do anything special, and the only reason we need those late drives are because we have a baseball point total at the time.
Following a HOF QB... check. Some people compare him to Ben, and that isn't fair. Others are so intent on not comparing him to Ben that they kind of give him too much benefit of the doubt.
All in all, it's a very strange situation. And you can add to the above that a lot of the talent around him has been polarizing (well, the receivers - the line has mostly sucked) and the OC he dealt with for two years was almost certainly in well over his head. Just so many conclusions people can draw - and they're doing a good job at it.
My only agenda is being fair about the criticism of KP and the praise of Rudy.
No doubt KP went back to the bad habit he had prior to his last year in college. But guess what that (not that in specific but happy feet) happens to all QBs who are facing regular jail breaks in an offense that is incredibly predictable. KP's play improved after Canada and the OL play improved. Rudy was the beneficiary of that in addition to playing awful defenses.
I dont think most who "defend" Kp are totally sold on him but rather simply want to see him in a situation where he has a chance to fairly prove his worth. Having said that I like Rudy and hope he sticks around to provide competition for the starting position. Let the best man win.
ALso to clarify I dont think anyone thinks KP is a franchise game changing QB like Mahomes or Ben. But he can be a WINNING QB given the right talent and offense.
Whats crazy talk is thinking Fields is some sort of incredible upgrade over KP or even Rudy.
i agree 100% of this. i am in KP's corner believe it or not and absolutely want to see what he can do with a competent OC and a LT and center that dont truly suck.
need to find one more WR in Free Agent too, someone who can actually play, unlike allen freakin robinson.
Yup Definitely need another WR. Would be great if they could trade drops johnson for value and pick up two new guys (maybe one vet and one rookie) to neutralize the knuckleheads antics.
Also need to address center and LT. With a more balanced WR corp and better protection who ever starts will have a better chance to succeed.
all things seem to be pointing that we are gonna get a center in first or 2nd rd. the wvu kid seems to be in play here.
on the bad side, all things seem to be pointing of dan moore still being our lt. again, rumors on the internet so who knows what they are really thinking.
A WR in the FA market is a must.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
It's a deep draft at wr. I imagine they'll get one there, too.
well yeah, can and should do both. Dionte is on his last year so he'll likely be gone after '24.
I hope so, and you should realize that stats do matter, throwing for yards and TDs matter, being able to hang in a shootout when your D gives up over 30 matters. Kenny literally needs to triple his production minimum and the team needs to average 50% more points, that would only be like 24 ppg, that's not unrealistic.
Oh no! we'll have posters coming on here rooting for him to fail and being filled with joy every time he does something bad, because he's a Hoopie
Mike Florio just stated on The Fan that George Pickens isn't highly viewed in NFL circles.
I wouldn't give a #1 pick for him, but he's not that bad, he'd be way better with a competent coach and an average QB.
It's actually rather ironic that this was said as we are debating it here. Ya think Florio reads the lair free board 🤣
So the argument was he doesn’t make yards after the catch
That was easily disproven
Facts aren’t fickle just because it hurts your vibes opinions
Show me the “separation “ stat .
Is it like pass rush win rate ? Does it matter more than yards per catch and yards after the catch ?
Take the L
He’s the leading receiver on the team -
He has 63 receptions -
It’s not a small sample size
And we signed a vet backup on a 1 year deal for $1.2mil
I win again
There's a reason they are starting over again.
Pickens is a solid WR2 who could be become a legit WR1 but he's not there yet.
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So his separation was the same as Amari cooper , tee Higgins , better than Devante Parker and close to Mike Evans- and you think this is a winning argument for you ?!?
Oh buddy - stop digging
You don’t know ball or stats
80 has given you several stats and sites to back up said stats, but you refuse to acknowledge them. But you seem to have an issue with understanding and acknowledgement..so carry on.
I provided stats
Actual stats
You provided a stat that put him near elite players
Which proves to be a stupid stat .
You all just going on vibes
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