Ot: penguins
- Thread starter SoufOaklin4Life
- Start date
I can't believe the issue you have all centered on is the goalie. This team is playing like it would like to get its coach fired. The team has absolutely no identity anymore, they appear to be going through the motions since they don't as players, really know what they are anymore.
We used to be all about speed and skill. Now we have become old and slow and most notably, very soft. All we have left is some skill, and even some of the skill guys are MIA. If we do make the playoffs, which is a big if, I am worried we are going to lose players left and right since we have no one to stand up to bullies who will undoubtedly take shots at the stars we have left.
To me, most of the blame goes to Mike Sullivan. He is so stubborn and sticks with guys like Simon, even tho he hasn't produced in eons. He also ordered Ryan Reaves who is not only the toughest guy in the league, but, also a good hockey player out of town. He fueded with our best defensive defenseman, Ian Cole and had Rutherford send him packing as well. It doesn't take to many faulty player decisions to weaken an entire team.
Rutherford has tried to help this team, and continues to shake it up and very well may pull the trigger again before the Monday deadline. I think he needs to. There is just so much dead weight on this team right now. Hornquist and Kessel look half-dead right now. I am not sure what either could bring, but, they should entertain offers. Time is running out on Sid and Geno, and I hold nothing against Rutherford. He made moves that garnered the franchise two recent cups, that is pretty good to me. That said, it may be time to stop giving away the #1 picks each year and try to pedal some of the older players in favor of some young up and comers.
I laugh my ass off at those who somehow blame Murray for this season or last for that matter. The regular season is a qualifier and nothing more. Winning the president's trophy usually gets you an early exit. They were right in that Caps series and it could have gone either way. Some of you need to get real. If they do make the playoffs, there is only one guy who can take this team forward, and given the shape of the current team, probably not that far forward. That guy is Matt Murray.
We used to be all about speed and skill. Now we have become old and slow and most notably, very soft. All we have left is some skill, and even some of the skill guys are MIA. If we do make the playoffs, which is a big if, I am worried we are going to lose players left and right since we have no one to stand up to bullies who will undoubtedly take shots at the stars we have left.
To me, most of the blame goes to Mike Sullivan. He is so stubborn and sticks with guys like Simon, even tho he hasn't produced in eons. He also ordered Ryan Reaves who is not only the toughest guy in the league, but, also a good hockey player out of town. He fueded with our best defensive defenseman, Ian Cole and had Rutherford send him packing as well. It doesn't take to many faulty player decisions to weaken an entire team.
Rutherford has tried to help this team, and continues to shake it up and very well may pull the trigger again before the Monday deadline. I think he needs to. There is just so much dead weight on this team right now. Hornquist and Kessel look half-dead right now. I am not sure what either could bring, but, they should entertain offers. Time is running out on Sid and Geno, and I hold nothing against Rutherford. He made moves that garnered the franchise two recent cups, that is pretty good to me. That said, it may be time to stop giving away the #1 picks each year and try to pedal some of the older players in favor of some young up and comers.
I laugh my ass off at those who somehow blame Murray for this season or last for that matter. The regular season is a qualifier and nothing more. Winning the president's trophy usually gets you an early exit. They were right in that Caps series and it could have gone either way. Some of you need to get real. If they do make the playoffs, there is only one guy who can take this team forward, and given the shape of the current team, probably not that far forward. That guy is Matt Murray.
I know. As you can see from the responses, it is ONE guy (well and his doppleganger _buddy) who has made this the issue.
This team is not good. I have been saying this for awhile. I have watched a lot of hockey, could be a Penguin historian, I know what teams have that "it" factor and this team doesn't have it.
I am not sure what other cards Rutherford has to play to transform this team. The window is not shut, so you don't have to all in panic, but it is starting to close. I trust this team will look a lot different next year, especially Kessel being gone.
I mean, yes Kessel actually shot more, but he made a blind, backhand pass when he was in the crease, and the Pens down 3-0. The amount of shots the Pens passed up in prime scoring areas, maybe they are trying to get Sullivan fired. As Sully said a couple of weeks ago, "we are trying to pass the puck into the goal".
I know great players and playmakers always are looking to make the pretty, the dazzling play, but sometimes the prudent move is to shoot, especially these guys who can pick corners, shoot. Even just shooting to hit the goalie and hope for a rebound or deflection.
Defensively, ugh. Just all over the place. I think Rutherford hope the new guys, would infuse a cup hungry mentality to help reinvigorate the vets but that hasn't happened. They still have games they float through ala old style Penguins.
If the Penguins were looking to be a team that wanted to stay together and not make any moves at the deadline, well last night didn't look like that. And to be honest, they didn't look that great against Jersey, against NYR, in those wins either. Even the wins last week against Edmonton and Philly, you can make a case they were outplayed and saved by a goalie.
Yes Souf, a #1 goalie is supposed to win you some games, but not every game. These aren't the 1995 Devils or the 2002 Ducks who sucked the hockey out of the hockey. The Pens will give up chances. A really interesting stat is the Penguins lead the league in hits. Now, on the surface, that is a really cool stat, right? Well does anyone think of this team as physical? No right? So how are they leading the league in hits? Easy. It is a bad thing. Because the time you "hit" people is when they have or you are chasing the puck. That means the puck possession game that has served the Pens well under Sully and won 2 cups is completely not there.
I believe that is the most telling stat. And it is not a good stat. The schedule the rest of way contains a lot of road games, but it also doesn't contain many top teams. So they can put together a run, but this team mostly this year plays up and down accordingly to its competition.
Hold on to that #1 pick Jimmy. No playoff guarantees with this group.
Last night, the Pens played like they didn't know HOW to play hockey. Getting shutout was one thing, but the way they played on the Sharks power plays was borderline comical.
No one bodied up or stuck in their lanes to "bother" the Sharks as they looked for the open guy to shoot. When they did shoot the puck, the Penguins either fell down or ran to the wrong guy giving the scorer a wide open net!
On another PP, with the puck pinned on the boards near the blue line, no less than 3 Penguins flocked to free the puck, and being already short handed, left DeSmith virtually alone! When the Sharks got the puck free, imagine that, they quickly moved it towards the net in almost breakaway status for an easy goal!
Looked like YMCA hockey!
Pens aren't good right now and it's getting late. Lots of things wrong, including soft goal tending btw, poor defense all around, and no leadership/toughness.
The only positive is if they miss the playoffs, they will take some of the heat off the Steelers on the talk show circuit as another underperforming Pittsburgh franchise.
No one bodied up or stuck in their lanes to "bother" the Sharks as they looked for the open guy to shoot. When they did shoot the puck, the Penguins either fell down or ran to the wrong guy giving the scorer a wide open net!
On another PP, with the puck pinned on the boards near the blue line, no less than 3 Penguins flocked to free the puck, and being already short handed, left DeSmith virtually alone! When the Sharks got the puck free, imagine that, they quickly moved it towards the net in almost breakaway status for an easy goal!
Looked like YMCA hockey!
Pens aren't good right now and it's getting late. Lots of things wrong, including soft goal tending btw, poor defense all around, and no leadership/toughness.
The only positive is if they miss the playoffs, they will take some of the heat off the Steelers on the talk show circuit as another underperforming Pittsburgh franchise.
Nobody has said Murray is the sole blame.
Nobody .
But some people refuse to acknowledge his below the line play is a contributor.
As is the fact that Sullivan went with desmith last night because Murray is wont to get injured played 2 games is 4 days
Nobody .
But some people refuse to acknowledge his below the line play is a contributor.
As is the fact that Sullivan went with desmith last night because Murray is wont to get injured played 2 games is 4 days
He was bad through November no doubt. And as you oft like to do, his stats proved it. But since he came back from his absence, just merely getting his stats even or close to DeSmith indicates he has been playing as well as almost any goalie. I mean he went from 30th to 10th in save percentage. His save percentage is higher than his beloved predecessor. I just think some (you) on here just wait for him to have a bad game then pile on. Judging from the reaction in this thread, I am not the only who thinks this.
And again, in DeSmith's defense last night, when you score ZERO goals, your goalie can't stop negative 1 goals. The team is not playing well, 2 of the core are in slumps that would be normally reserved for 4th liners and the team overall is not playing smart or inspired.
I dunno. Maybe they miraculously put it all together.
I’ll simply point out that I’m amused that the only reason Murray continues to be a featured topic is because his fanboys don’t like any criticism of his play.
I’ve said Malkin has been garbage most season , because he has - and it isn’t met with huge outrage. Why not- he’s won 3 cups by the same rationale , right?
I’ve said Malkin has been garbage most season , because he has - and it isn’t met with huge outrage. Why not- he’s won 3 cups by the same rationale , right?
Right now, neither are close to the problems. I am not even sure if it isn't the coach. That doesn't mean Sullivan is not a great coach, he is. But so is Joel Quenneville. For whatever reason, hockey coaches have shelf lives. I mean look at Barry Trotz, he won a cup for the Caps, the Caps slow played him on a contract and he went to the Islanders and now look at the Islanders.
I am not saying to fire Sullivan, but............I think you ride out this season, see if they have a switch to turn on....then in the offseason you 81 Kessel for some younger players, and if they are still "mehing" there way through Christmas well then you know what is coming.
Equally annoying is your need to stan for Murray at every opportunity.
But if you see in this thread, it ain't just me here. Many people were on Souf for this, so his criticisms obviously have bias.
Murray sucked to start the season, the first two months awful. Putrid. He lost the Calgary game this past weekend. Okay? There. When Murray stopped 88 out of 90 shots in two wins against Edmonton and Philly, there was silence from a certain poster (well two including our underscore_ friend).
Sure. He does. But so do you, @PittCity, and others. As I've said before. I don't know why everyone is making it such a complicated issue. He helped the Pens win two cups. Great. Keeping him was the right move. And when we're talking about him in a larger context/assessing his legacy with the Pens, all that stuff matters.
But right now, we can talk about his current play. And that's a different conversation. He's either playing well enough or he's not.
Okay, I can research this if you want. But I think you will find out since he came back from his "sabbatical", his numbers have been towards the top of the league.
I guess it is the nature of the position. When the Pens were losing the back to back year series against the Rangers, people actually were blaming MAF for the 2-1 or 3-2 losses, because he didn't outplay Henrik Lundquist. Instead of blaming Sid and Geno for not scoring more goals. It is like the QB.
More thoughts .......
- Goaltending has been a problem last season and this season for the Pens but has not been the biggest problem (we have much bigger problems then goaltending at present !).
- Whether you want to use the eyeball test, stats, or advanced stats, it is clear that last season Murray went from basically a top 10 goalie the year before that to a below average NHL goalie last season and started this season just about as bad as last season ...... however, since his return from injury a couple months ago, Murray overall has played much better and most nights has played well enough for the Pens to win ..... he has had a couple bad games but overall has played at a much higher level then he has over the last 1 and a half years prior ..... the eyeball test (if you know what to look for), stats, and advanced stats all confirm the significantly improved play by Murray more recently.
- Murray's play more recently has been trending upward and DeSmith's play trending slightly downward ..... we'll see how it plays out going forward.
- Murray by far has the highest upside of any goalie we have and he will have to play at a high level if we are going to make the playoffs and go anywhere in the Stanley Cup Playoffs ....... however, if the rest of the team does not improve significantly now, it won't matter how well Murray plays as we won't go anywhere even if he plays well.
- Changing gears ..... last night we got whipped 4-0 on the scoreboard but 5v5 I thought we played fairly well .... 5v5 the score in the game was 0-0 and we outshot them 23-21 again 5v5 ...... the game was mainly lost on special teams (which are problems at present) as the Sharks scored 3 PPG's and 1 SHG !!! ...... 5v5 I thought we actually had the better scoring chances ..... Kessel had two great scoring chances right around the crease and either couldn't control the puck and/or elevate it, Crosby and Guentzel had a 2 on 1 and didn't score, Crosby stole a puck at the Sharks hashmarks and had a great opportunity but couldn't bury it, and Malkin had a great chance to score right in front of the goalie and again didn't score ..... Five absolutely great scoring chances and we scored no goals.
- 4 of our 8 forwards last night (Simon, Pearson, Kessel, and Hornqvist) have hardly scored any goals in weeks ...... I think Kessel and Hornqvist will breakthrough soon .... Blueger and Wilson should be back in the lineup (Blueger was playing well and Wilson for his physical play and puck pursuit).
- Team needs to improve puck retrieval and breakouts from their own end.
- Agree we are overpassing in some situations and need to get pucks on net (Kessel did have 4 shots on goal last night .... maybe that is a good sign).
- Power play and penalty kill need to improve and cut out the short handed goals please !
- Yesterday I said that I didn't think Rutherford would make any big deals before the trade deadline (maybe a minor deal for depth) and I still don't think he will but who knows ...... may be an interesting weekend .... maybe not.
- Goaltending has been a problem last season and this season for the Pens but has not been the biggest problem (we have much bigger problems then goaltending at present !).
- Whether you want to use the eyeball test, stats, or advanced stats, it is clear that last season Murray went from basically a top 10 goalie the year before that to a below average NHL goalie last season and started this season just about as bad as last season ...... however, since his return from injury a couple months ago, Murray overall has played much better and most nights has played well enough for the Pens to win ..... he has had a couple bad games but overall has played at a much higher level then he has over the last 1 and a half years prior ..... the eyeball test (if you know what to look for), stats, and advanced stats all confirm the significantly improved play by Murray more recently.
- Murray's play more recently has been trending upward and DeSmith's play trending slightly downward ..... we'll see how it plays out going forward.
- Murray by far has the highest upside of any goalie we have and he will have to play at a high level if we are going to make the playoffs and go anywhere in the Stanley Cup Playoffs ....... however, if the rest of the team does not improve significantly now, it won't matter how well Murray plays as we won't go anywhere even if he plays well.
- Changing gears ..... last night we got whipped 4-0 on the scoreboard but 5v5 I thought we played fairly well .... 5v5 the score in the game was 0-0 and we outshot them 23-21 again 5v5 ...... the game was mainly lost on special teams (which are problems at present) as the Sharks scored 3 PPG's and 1 SHG !!! ...... 5v5 I thought we actually had the better scoring chances ..... Kessel had two great scoring chances right around the crease and either couldn't control the puck and/or elevate it, Crosby and Guentzel had a 2 on 1 and didn't score, Crosby stole a puck at the Sharks hashmarks and had a great opportunity but couldn't bury it, and Malkin had a great chance to score right in front of the goalie and again didn't score ..... Five absolutely great scoring chances and we scored no goals.
- 4 of our 8 forwards last night (Simon, Pearson, Kessel, and Hornqvist) have hardly scored any goals in weeks ...... I think Kessel and Hornqvist will breakthrough soon .... Blueger and Wilson should be back in the lineup (Blueger was playing well and Wilson for his physical play and puck pursuit).
- Team needs to improve puck retrieval and breakouts from their own end.
- Agree we are overpassing in some situations and need to get pucks on net (Kessel did have 4 shots on goal last night .... maybe that is a good sign).
- Power play and penalty kill need to improve and cut out the short handed goals please !
- Yesterday I said that I didn't think Rutherford would make any big deals before the trade deadline (maybe a minor deal for depth) and I still don't think he will but who knows ...... may be an interesting weekend .... maybe not.
How do you get your own personal troll?
I'm impressed!
The second goal that the Sharks scored on the PP last night was a new one for me. I’ve never seen a team end up with a 3-on-0 breakaway after winning a board battle in the offensive zone. Jack Johnson’s decision on that play was about the stupidest thing I’ve seen in my years watching hockey — Kessel trying to stick handle through three defenders at the blue line on a power play was another dandy. This team just looks so disinterested some times. Big offseason for Rutherford coming up. What to do with Kessel — probably the same thing Boston and Toronto did. Just let him go for a lesser return.
It should be met with silence because high level play should be the expectation.
I have no bias. Facts aren’t biased .
I get you need to look for praise for Murray for doing his job-
But that’s not going to come from me.
JD ... I agree that 2nd PP you described would make a highlight film of what NOT to do on the penalty kill ..... but, in fairness, Jack Johnson was not the only Pen to play that poorly and may not have even been the main culprit IMO ..... McCann was battling a Shark on the near boards just inside the blue line for the puck and Jack Johnson jumped up to double team and try to get the puck outside the blue line certainly not a great decision especially since the two Pens didn't get the puck .... the battle continued along the boards and Cullen jumps into the play on the wrong side of the puck ..... a 2nd Shark then comes into the play against the 3 Pens still along the boards not far from the blue line, gets the puck, and starts going forward ...... inexplicably Ruhwedel skates out toward the puck carrier leaving 3 Sharks behind him and when the pass gets by him, it is basically a 3 on 0 ...... Johnson jumped up first but Cullen and Ruhwedel made just as bad if not worse decisions IMO ..... if Cullen and Ruhwedel stay back it likely would have been a 3 on 2 ..... plenty of blame to go around on that play.
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Sid with a put away mini break
Couturier goes glove high from
The left circle to cash on on their 5th shot.
Pens dominating play but all even
Couturier goes glove high from
The left circle to cash on on their 5th shot.
Pens dominating play but all even
I’m ambivalent-
Simmonds went high- but it was a shoulder led and finishing the check.
At one time time I liked the edge of finishing.. not anymore.. I want to see the best players on the ice.
I hate the flyers but that’s not true.
The injury was because dumo’s head hit the glass.
It wasn’t from the check
One period with the filthy Philly thugs and we are minus our two best defenseman. Thanks useless refs! Thanks also Mike Sullivan. Why would we need an enforcer like Ryan Reeves who is a good hockey player as well? We have become so soft and unresponsive to this type of play against us. Do you think if we squeak into the playoffs there won't be more of this? The refs might as well have their D$$KS in their mouths instead of a whistle.
We don't have the toughness to counteract the thugery, so if we do make it to the playoffs, I guess we just pray we don't lose more guys. Fortunately we won't have to worry about Symmonds unless he is traded, but Tom Wilson will be foaming at the mouth to take a couple shots at our best players and we are powerless to stop him.
We don't have the toughness to counteract the thugery, so if we do make it to the playoffs, I guess we just pray we don't lose more guys. Fortunately we won't have to worry about Symmonds unless he is traded, but Tom Wilson will be foaming at the mouth to take a couple shots at our best players and we are powerless to stop him.
Letang got hurt reacting to what was honestly a fairly clean hard hit to dumo in a scrum.
Nothing thuggish about it
Your narrative doesn’t fit this situation
Pens are choking dogs
I hate sitting back and not challenging for possession.
Murray played really well-
Except for the first and third goals
I hate sitting back and not challenging for possession.
Murray played really well-
Except for the first and third goals
Kind of like saying Big Ben played well, except for those 2 crucial interceptions. Or make that 3 counting a 3rd in OT.
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